Ser Ronan Storm

A Timeframe of Ice and Fire: Two Books, Too Many Upcoming Conflicts Left To Go

126 posts in this topic

14 hours ago, RedPriest said:

Dany is so much of a humanitarian that she spent a whole year campaigning in Slavers Bay. What makes you think she'll kill half million people?

She won't do it on purpose, there's wildfire underneath KL.

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19 hours ago, farerb said:

She won't do it on purpose, there's wildfire underneath KL.

That wildfire will ignite though I doubt Dany or her dragons will be to blame.

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Especially as Dany burning down KL and getting kicked out of westeros (or attempting to repeat the Wars of Conquest), is a little anticlimactic. The comments about a Dance of Dragons and a Blackfyre Rebellion  are probably true, even though there isn't really enough books to keep it up for long.

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6 hours ago, RedPriest said:

Especially as Dany burning down KL and getting kicked out of westeros (or attempting to repeat the Wars of Conquest), is a little anticlimactic. The comments about a Dance of Dragons and a Blackfyre Rebellion  are probably true, even though there isn't really enough books to keep it up for long.

Haha, if GRRM truly intends to keep this all contained to Winds and have A Dream Of Spring be all about the Others invasion, then perhaps the Dany vs. Aegon vs. Some Third Faction (Jon?) can become known as the 200-Page War. And that's just me being generous, considering the page count it will take just to get these factions assembled on the same continent.

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Dany destroying KL and the Others' invasion can happen in the same book (ADOS). Event on the books can happen concurrently and the War for the Dawn won't need 1000+ pages to be told.

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Maybe not, but it would have to be rather short and compressed

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On 7/30/2016 at 8:49 AM, farerb said:

Dany destroying KL and the Others' invasion can happen in the same book (ADOS). Event on the books can happen concurrently and the War for the Dawn won't need 1000+ pages to be told.

 

People say Other invasion, and what does that mean? It must be subjective, because it's really something I thought there would need to be 3 books for, but when it didn't happen in Feast or Dance, I just threw up my hands and said whatever. If you think Dany v. Aegon and the Others invading can happen in the same book, do you mean the Others just get across the Wall? That won't take long. Wipe out the North? That could take a book, the way George writes, it's a few chapters scattered around a few POVs, but it can hit the Riverlands in one book, the way George writes, not with all this Euron stuff now.

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And to get winter under way (it's just started), events are probably going to move to 301AC, which definetelly means lots of events which we don't get to witness. I wonder when in the invasion of the dragons will the others threat be realised, and how will Dany/Aegon respond to it?

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What about the possibility that Dany's invasion and the Dance of Dragons takes place simultaneously in the South while the Others' invasion begins North?

Would make for a nice Ice/Fire parallel where both Ice and Fire are destroying Westeros from opposite sides.

We know that Dany is not going to leave for Westeros till the end of TWOW, which means her invasion will probably happen in ADOS. On the other hand, winter seems to be at the doorstep of the north in ADWD, and will only increase in intensity in TWOW, probably setting the stage for the Others to enter in full force in ADOS.

Edited by Little Scribe of Naath

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50 minutes ago, Little Scribe of Naath said:

What about the possibility that Dany's invasion and the Dance of Dragons takes place simultaneously in the South while the Others' invasion begins North?

Would make for a nice Ice/Fire parallel where both Ice and Fire are destroying Westeros from opposite sides.

We know that Dany is not going to leave for Westeros till the end of TWOW, which means her invasion will probably happen in ADOS. On the other hand, winter seems to be at the doorstep of the north in ADWD, and will only increase in intensity in TWOW, probably setting the stage for the Others to enter in full force in ADOS.

Well, I am at work, but didn't her vision have her facing the Others on the Trident? I guess that works, but I want more damage to the South, the idiots that destabilized the North such that there could be no effective defense.

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3 hours ago, Whitering said:

Well, I am at work, but didn't her vision have her facing the Others on the Trident? I guess that works, but I want more damage to the South, the idiots that destabilized the North such that there could be no effective defense.

Hmm...assuming the Others can't travel by sea, then they would have to cross the North to reach South. Maybe the Northeners are forced to retreat South as well? Possibly that's how the showdown between Dany and the Others happens at the Trident and not at the Wall or some Northern place.

That dream of Dany's is curious though. It says the Usurper's host armored in Ice - I was wondering if it was foreshadowing Stannis v/s Dany in a way.

But if the Others are intelligent creatures who possess capabilities of strategy and planning (which they very well might be), it's possible they attack the South first and take them unawares.

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2 hours ago, Little Scribe of Naath said:

Hmm...assuming the Others can't travel by sea, then they would have to cross the North to reach South. Maybe the Northeners are forced to retreat South as well? Possibly that's how the showdown between Dany and the Others happens at the Trident and not at the Wall or some Northern place.

That dream of Dany's is curious though. It says the Usurper's host armored in Ice - I was wondering if it was foreshadowing Stannis v/s Dany in a way.

But if the Others are intelligent creatures who possess capabilities of strategy and planning (which they very well might be), it's possible they attack the South first and take them unawares.

Well, historically a great number of forced migrations are seen as wars, hitting our recorded Roman histories in particular. But again, in two books I don't see that being the Northern experience. The Others could hit the South now that winter has arrived there, maybe that's why it arrived, but I don't know where the attacks would fall, it would be hilarious to me if they ended up taking the Iron Islands as a base since that's where so much of the instability came from.

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Didn't he say - in an interview years ago - that the series might take more than 7 books to finish? 

Edited by Stark_

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At this point I'm convinced he'll just give loose ends the D&D treatment. I hope not but......

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On ‎05‎/‎08‎/‎2016 at 0:13 AM, Narvi said:

At this point I'm convinced he'll just give loose ends the D&D treatment. I hope not but......

Now that it looks like Wild Cards is getting the movie and or TV green light I think ASOIAF will slowly drift into an incomplete nothingness.  The show will steal that series thunder.  But Wild Cards is a chance for GRRM to reclaim the throne and be canon.

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42 minutes ago, Ser Gareth said:

Now that it looks like Wild Cards is getting the movie and or TV green light I think ASOIAF will slowly drift into an incomplete nothingness.  The show will steal that series thunder.  But Wild Cards is a chance for GRRM to reclaim the throne and be canon.

Wild Cards will not succeed to the degree that Game of Thrones did. You can go see Super Heroes on the big screen every month these days or many places on the small screen. Sure, they don't have the quality of writing that George may have, but not all writers for Wild Cards are even close to his equal, so the quality is not consistent.

When Game of Thrones launched there were few to no places to go see historical or quasi historical fiction really.

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I do not think Dany is going to go to Westeros. Other than some moronic sense of entitlement what reason does she have to go there? I understand the need for her waiting for her dragons to grow, but now her army has become all but unmanageable. Unless some deal with Victarion can be brokered she does not have the ships to transport her forces. Due to her "reforms" once she is gone the old ways will return to Mereen because there is no longer an idiot child with her hand on a nuke button.

I also think the Aegon character was introduced to take Dany's place. Yeah she has dragons, which is cool and all, but she can barely control them if at all. A weapon system that cannot perform reliably is a liability. Is Aegon really Rhaegar's son? I am curious to find out.

Even if she does start mobilizing it would be months, if not a year, for her invasion just to begin from Slaver's Bay. Then there is travel time, stopping for supplies and doing ship counts on the way to Westeros. With the closest city that she could land at being Sunspear she still has to march her army through Dorne.

Best case scenario in my opinion by the time Dany reaches Westeros she will find the South in the hands of Aegon whom has an amicable relationship with Jon Snow who is now King in the North. Worst case scenario the South is engulfed in a war that will make the war of Five Kings look like a playground scuffle, while the North is fighting the army of the dead to save the kingdom.

So unless she leaves Essos within the first few chapters, and arrives in the third portion of the book she will make no difference.

This all assumes that the series is going to be seven books.

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^^^i agree about Dany never getting over the Narrow Sea^^^

This story is largely about the futility of vengeance, amidst a structure devoted to subverting expectations and tropes.

So nothing that we expect or hope for HAS to happen, as we should know by now.

And the key to the story is to make sure The Others never get past the wall - or what realm will there be left to save?

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On 8/23/2016 at 5:44 PM, Ser Shaft of Hightower said:

^^^i agree about Dany never getting over the Narrow Sea^^^

This story is largely about the futility of vengeance, amidst a structure devoted to subverting expectations and tropes.

So nothing that we expect or hope for HAS to happen, as we should know by now.

And the key to the story is to make sure The Others never get past the wall - or what realm will there be left to save?

There is prophecy that she will, there are historical precedents to her fleet sinking during the crossing (Mongols/China/Russia re Japan, Rome re Carthage twice). George likes to parallel history, Dany will survive, without her army. We don't want the Dothraki in Westeros.

If the Others don't cross the Wall it's a lame duck story, but also, historically, static defenses have been circumvented so while the Wildlings threw themselves against the Wall, the Others will probably just walk across the Ice (they are immune to cold I would guess).

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