Ser Ronan Storm

A Timeframe of Ice and Fire: Two Books, Too Many Upcoming Conflicts Left To Go

126 posts in this topic

On 25/07/2016 at 8:17 PM, Masha said:

I have no idea how GRRM is planning to fit it all in 2 books, unless he is planning to have A Dream of Spring vol 1 and vol 2 respectively (a la To Green Angel Tower type)

To Green Angel Tower was one book in hardback. It was only the paperback that was split in two.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Dany doesn't have to arrive in westeros anytime soon. Lets assume the wall is going to fall, again that could be at the end of the book. All of the south will be still concerned with KL goings on, when Dany arrives and takes the throne from whoever. Nobody in the south is realy going to even believe there are others and the wall has fallen. If either the others or Dany are in the south too soon, then there is two books for them to battle. I cant see the others march south been drawn out, they will wait until all the chaos in the south plays out and swamp the depleated forces. Then there is only the northern forces who even care about it until Dany arrives and realises there is more to Westeros than the Iron throne and finally meets Jon.

Therefore there is a whole book before either Dany arrives or is close to arriving in Westeros and also the wall actually falling. Since neither of these is close at present that fits. In the end whatever happens it comes down to Dany and Jon meeting and I cant see those two been a long drawnout thing more a climatic event where the Trag - Stark connection is let loose/revealed in the final book.

Anyone know how big WoW is going to be, I guessing Dance size or bigger to sort out a lot of these issues raised above.

e.g Jon to come back to life and rule the North. Arya to come back to westeros and do some seriously bad (good) stuff (hopefully involving Nymeria). Dany to solve the stuck on the other side of the world thing. LF to start actually doing something in the Vale. Sansa to also do whatever? Bran to show the point of the 3eyed crow that he is becoming.

Remember the five main characters are Jon , Arya, Bran, Tyrion and Dany.

Jon and Bran aren't far apart and Arya a relatively short ship ride away. Tyron and Dany also in the same area. So I can see all the starks back together by the end of a large book and Dany and Tyrion at least with a path back to westeros. Action packed WoW to thin out a few characters. The kids are all old enough now. I can't cope with a wait for volume 8.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think TWOW will be the longest book yet - longer than A Storm of Swords - but there will still end up being 2 more books after that.

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Ha!  I wanted to quote several posters above.    Fascinating topic and more fascinating ideas.   We just wrapped up a discussion of Dany's arrival and invasion of Westeros over in General Forum.   There was a consensus that Dany will bring a mass of misfits with her and concern particularly for the Dothraki visit.   Frightening prospect.   Speaking for myself only, as there are many varied possibilities, I expect Dany to arrive in Westeros in waves.    Meaning several trips to and fro for enforcements, though I believe that with Vic's 91 ships, the unnumbered Volantine Fleet and Euron's  remaining ships, she should be able to get 30,000 over to Westeros at a time.   I estimate her forces to be near 100,000.   Certainly she will have the opportunity to gain more transport vehicles as well, but this is my conservative initial estimate.   

If we all agree that Aegon will ravage whatever is left of the Stormlands and possibly the Crownlands (if there is anything left to the Crownlands after The Faith and Wildfyre have their ways) and that Euron has already ravaged the Reach and will likely menace Dorne on his fast boat to Mereen and that The Riverlands are decimated, all that's really left will be the Westerlands, Vale and the North.   The Tyrells both claim and are said to be able to raise 90,000 fighters whereas the Lannisters were able to raise 3 armies at roughly 40,000 men for the WO5K.  The North has roughly 60,000 fighters, including the Wildling women and children.  Factions of the Reach forces are in Kings Landing or enroute to the Stormlands to intercept Aegon.   The Redwyne Fleet is stuck at Dragonstone along with about 3,000 Lannister/Tyrell men.   We don't know how many swords or spears are at the Vale or Dorne--could be anywhere from 6 to 60,000 each, though I suspect it's much closer to 20-30,000 fighters each.   Is Sansa one of the 3 Queens in Little Finger's war?  If so, plan on The Vale joining someone early in Winds.   Does Euron have enough ships and men to really menace Dorne, who we expect to send a reasonable presence away to Aegon?  The point being there are 2 major scuffles in the Stormlands/Crownlands/Reach/Dorne to eliminate an awful lot of the fighting population of Westeros.  The Riverlands is already defeated.   Those Westerosi who survive in the South face certain famine and disease associated with slaughter and destruction on this scale.   Plan on losing half the of the remaining survivors to that, because Winter IS Coming, Baby.   

Maybe the whole point behind Dany's wanderings throughout Essos is for her to gather as many people as possible to repopulate Westeros.   

All the plots and subplots could and would be resolved in all these wars and aftermath.  We only need 13 people to go to the North to take care of the Others anyway.   

  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think the whole Essos line will be left in the background. I don't care about it anyway. There is so much going on in Westeros at the moment. And the Others will probably appera only to the end of TWoW

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

GRRM is a fan of Tolkien, probably wants to match him by having one book split into 3.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Maybe GRRM has no idea how all these stories would evolve if left alone. But he doesn't care. At some point he will break the dam (Wall) and every little, petty, stories will be nothing compared to the Long Night and the Others' mass destruction. One book would be largely sufficient to deal with that.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

With George scrapping the 5 year gap he really put himself on a rocky, curvy river. I will be honestly surprised if he finishes the story in two more large books. If he wants to be done with the story I hope he finds a way to get all his characters where he needs them by Winds end that is cohesive with the story and the character's themselves. But at the same time I honestly think it will be three more books as well at the same time. Maybe the last book will be the A Time for Wolves title. I don't know. Poor George is taking forever in getting Winds out and he's not getting any younger. He needs stricter editors or another great high fantasy author to help him out or something.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

They will discover the lost Valyrian ability to use the glass candles to teleport over vast distances or something. That's the only way I can see this closing in 2 books, and that idea is really stupid.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, Whitering said:

They will discover the lost Valyrian ability to use the glass candles to teleport over vast distances or something. That's the only way I can see this closing in 2 books, and that idea is really stupid.

GRRM doesn't have a problem not showing an entire journey if it doesn't serve anything. Take for example Tyrion and Catelyn in book one.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I don't think the series will be finished by GRRM.  D&D yes, GRRM no.  He started this over 20 years ago and clearly his desires have gone a different direction.  There are writers still writing in their 80's but short stories, not epic novels.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, ssls6 said:

I don't think the series will be finished by GRRM.  D&D yes, GRRM no.  He started this over 20 years ago and clearly his desires have gone a different direction.  There are writers still writing in their 80's but short stories, not epic novels.

I am afraid you're right. With every book he finishes there are more events and characters he needs to cross check.

I think the problem is that he realized that his characters developed in different directions from what he originally intended - or that he's started viewing them differently over the years. If he forces them to change direction, it will show. And if he lets them continue as is they won't arrive at the intended destination. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
19 hours ago, farerb said:

GRRM doesn't have a problem not showing an entire journey if it doesn't serve anything. Take for example Tyrion and Catelyn in book one.

Yes, but other characters are filling up the timeline, he doesn't generally skip the months it would take for Dany to get to Westeros at this point no matter if she just flies or not.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

TWOW is so titled because it's when the WW's will invade no? In the depths of the deepest winter? Yet it has a giant dragon horn on the cover, so that is contradictory......

 

I say there is no way he gets done in 2 books, which wouldnt bother me if it didnt take 6 years between books.  Any solid rumors on publishing dates for Winds?  I keep hearing January 2017 now, smfh......

 

Fact is that if Dany and Tyrion do not EVEN MEET until the end of WoW, then Dany will probably be landing in Westeros beginning of DoS.  And it will take her more than 1 book to accomplish everything on her prophesized list.

Like everything might have been possible before all these sample chapters.  I mean Sansa literally just met like 30 new characters at that party at the Eyrie and Euron is just beginning his reign of terror.  Also Arianne is just beginning her reign of terror lol, as is fAegon.  Cersei is going to do most of Dany's work wrt destroying King's Landing.  By the time Dany gets there, there will hardly be anyone she even needs to worry about, unless of course Euron has already taken the throne.......but not if Vic gets a dragon first.......

 

And yeah the main thing that makes no sense... I mean it looks like Bran will leave the cave now...how in the blue fuck is going to get anywhere? The Eagles from LOTR's? and Ice Dragon? because flying is THE ONLY way he gets out of there with any kind speed.  Even if Benjen or Coldhands shows up, a horse/elk is not going to cut it, it took a whole book to get there, it will take whole book to get out, so WTF?

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Once a week I go to "not a blog" and it's either football or wildcards.....

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Here's some sad news. If you consider AFFC & ADWD to be one book, then that means it took him 11 years to finish all of it. What does that mean for Winds? 

1. We get another book with half of the POVs.

2. Winds is still another 5 years away. 

3. Alot of characters will get killed off in Winds.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, PCK said:

Here's some sad news. If you consider AFFC & ADWD to be one book, then that means it took him 11 years to finish all of it. What does that mean for Winds? 

1. We get another book with half of the POVs.

2. Winds is still another 5 years away. 

3. Alot of characters will get killed off in Winds.

That's nonesense. He is limited to 1500 manuscript pages, AFFC + ADWD ~ 2500-3000 manuscript pages.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 hours ago, PCK said:

Here's some sad news. If you consider AFFC & ADWD to be one book, then that means it took him 11 years to finish all of it. What does that mean for Winds? 

1. We get another book with half of the POVs.

2. Winds is still another 5 years away. 

3. Alot of characters will get killed off in Winds.

Yes. A lot of characters will be killed off in Winds. And GRRM has problems doing it. The longer he takes to finish the book, the longer his characters will live.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!


Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.


Sign In Now

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.