King Ned Stark Posted July 26, 2016 Share Posted July 26, 2016 We know by way of Beric and Catelyn that people lose a piece of themselves after resurrection. Working under the assumption that Jon Snow will indeed return, we have seen theories that his warging abilities may prove to be a foil to this, and he may retain more of "himself" than previous others. Maester Aemon's last bit of advice to Jon was for him to "kill the boy, and let the man be born". A vague statement to say the least, and one that some say will cause Jon to go dark, as in become more ruthless. Many agree that it is inevitable that Jon will learn of his true heritage, and will learn that Ned sacrificed himself (Ned) and Jon for the greater good. This could pose as the next struggle and learning curve that Jon must come to grips with. It is why it was integral for Ned to raise him. Jon will come to the understanding that a birthright means nothing compared to the greater good, and that all these claimants for the throne have put the cart before the horse. He will kill the boy, for boys are callow and selfish, and let the man be born, because it takes a man to truly sacrifice. A true leader lead by serving. As Davos once said, "a true king protects his people, or he is no king at all". Will Jon be the POV that goes to the one of always winter, leaving behind the throne and glory to do what must be done? I'm starting to think so, and that he will die in the heart of winter to save his people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Lannister Posted July 26, 2016 Share Posted July 26, 2016 I doubt very much Martin's actually going to spell out who the Prince that was Promised, Azor Ahai Reborn or the Last Hero are. The characters are just going to do what they do, and even after a Dream of Spring is published people will still be debating who's what. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lady Blizzardborn Posted July 26, 2016 Share Posted July 26, 2016 Nice thought. Definite possibility. Personally I think it's going to take a kamikaze dragon flight into the Heart of Winter to save everyone. Jon could certainly do that, though I'm rather pulling for it to be Tyrion--with Bloodraven in his second life inside the dragon, doing the steering. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Ned Stark Posted July 26, 2016 Author Share Posted July 26, 2016 1 hour ago, Lord Lannister said: I doubt very much Martin's actually going to spell out who the Prince that was Promised, Azor Ahai Reborn or the Last Hero are. The characters are just going to do what they do, and even after a Dream of Spring is published people will still be debating who's what. I certainly agree, I just remember reading somewhere that Martin said a POV will go to the land of always winter, I've always thought it would be Jon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Ned Stark Posted July 26, 2016 Author Share Posted July 26, 2016 21 minutes ago, Lady Blizzardborn said: Nice thought. Definite possibility. Personally I think it's going to take a kamikaze dragon flight into the Heart of Winter to save everyone. Jon could certainly do that, though I'm rather pulling for it to be Tyrion--with Bloodraven in his second life inside the dragon, doing the steering. You think it will be Tyrion? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dorian Martell Posted July 26, 2016 Share Posted July 26, 2016 On 7/25/2016 at 5:55 PM, King Ned Stark said: We know by way of Beric and Catelyn that people lose a piece of themselves after resurrection. Working under the assumption that Jon Snow will indeed return, we have seen theories that his warging abilities may prove to be a foil to this, and he may retain more of "himself" than previous others. Maester Aemon's last bit of advice to Jon was for him to "kill the boy, and let the man be born". A vague statement to say the least, and one that some say will cause Jon to go dark, as in become more ruthless. Many agree that it is inevitable that Jon will learn of his true heritage, and will learn that Ned sacrificed himself (Ned) and Jon for the greater good. This could pose as the next struggle and learning curve that Jon must come to grips with. It is why it was integral for Ned to raise him. Jon will come to the understanding that a birthright means nothing compared to the greater good, and that all these claimants for the throne have put the cart before the horse. He will kill the boy, for boys are callow and selfish, and let the man be born, because it takes a man to truly sacrifice. A true leader lead by serving. As Davos once said, "a true king protects his people, or he is no king at all". Will Jon be the POV that goes to the one of always winter, leaving behind the throne and glory to do what must be done? I'm starting to think so, and that he will die in the heart of winter to save his people. Bran is the Last Hero archetype. He has traveled north to seek out the children and the greenseers to learn to fight the approaching enemy. Any POV into the lands of always winter will be his. Jon and Dany are either the AA archetype or TPTWP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lady Blizzardborn Posted July 26, 2016 Share Posted July 26, 2016 4 hours ago, King Ned Stark said: You think it will be Tyrion? I didn't say I think it will be. I said I'm pulling for that, aka I'd love it. Don't tell me you wouldn't get a kick out of Tyrion deciding he has to save humanity, getting seriously drunk, and ordering people to lash him onto a dragon so he can't fall off while he becomes the biggest (and smallest) hero the world has ever known. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yomi Posted July 26, 2016 Share Posted July 26, 2016 4 hours ago, Lady Blizzardborn said: Personally I think it's going to take a kamikaze dragon flight into the Heart of Winter to save everyone. Jon could certainly do that, though I'm rather pulling for it to be Tyrion--with Bloodraven in his second life inside the dragon, doing the steering. If Bloodraven, being the dragon, is doing the steering, why would a rider be needed at all? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Ned Stark Posted July 26, 2016 Author Share Posted July 26, 2016 24 minutes ago, Lady Blizzardborn said: I didn't say I think it will be. I said I'm pulling for that, aka I'd love it. Don't tell me you wouldn't get a kick out of Tyrion deciding he has to save humanity, getting seriously drunk, and ordering people to lash him onto a dragon so he can't fall off while he becomes the biggest (and smallest) hero the world has ever known. It's hard to denote tone and what not, so I apologize. I thought maybe you had some inkling about it, so it was a serious question. I've read enough of your posts to respect what you have to say. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Ned Stark Posted July 26, 2016 Author Share Posted July 26, 2016 54 minutes ago, Dorian Martell said: Bran is the Last Hero archetype. He has traveled north to seek out the children and the greenseers to learn to fight the approaching enemy. Any POV into hte lands of always winter will be his. Jon and Dany are either the AA archetype or TPTWP. So you think Bran is going north? It would have to be one or the other, I think, I was thinking Jon. Honestly, I'm unsure about all the different cultures different saviors; AA, TPtwP, the Last Hero, and the world book added a couple more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dorian Martell Posted July 26, 2016 Share Posted July 26, 2016 7 hours ago, King Ned Stark said: So you think Bran is going north? It would have to be one or the other, I think, I was thinking Jon. Honestly, I'm unsure about all the different cultures different saviors; AA, TPtwP, the Last Hero, and the world book added a couple more. Bran has already gone north. He is farther north than Jon. Plus there is the whole bit about learnign from the children and the greenseers about how to fight the Others. Dany and Jon both have the the red star bleeding, they both have the "born amidst salt and smoke parts going for them. I tend to think that Dany is the AA archetype, as she has Dragons which could be interpreted as lightbringer, flaming swords and I tend to think that Jon is the prince that was promised, born of hte line of Aerys and Rhaella. All of this is speculation, and the Author makes a big deal about how prophecy is total crap so that is why I think thay are archetypes and not literal manifestations of predictions Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lady Blizzardborn Posted July 26, 2016 Share Posted July 26, 2016 13 hours ago, yomi said: If Bloodraven, being the dragon, is doing the steering, why would a rider be needed at all? That would be because the humans have no clue that Bloodraven is inside the dragon. Not sure even Bran would be aware of that. So they'd think one of them has to go on a suicide mission. It would given Tyrion the hero status and appreciation he's never had despite laudable efforts at saving people, and it's consistent with Bloodraven's arc of giving up everything for the realm but getting zero credit. Just an idea that I think fits in with the "bittersweet" we've been promised. 13 hours ago, King Ned Stark said: It's hard to denote tone and what not, so I apologize. I thought maybe you had some inkling about it, so it was a serious question. I've read enough of your posts to respect what you have to say. Aw, thank you. No apology necessary. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Curled Finger Posted July 27, 2016 Share Posted July 27, 2016 It's interesting that Aemon first told Egg to kill the boy to let the man live. Now he tells Egg's Great Great grandson the same thing. It strikes me as advice to a king, in preparation to rule and lead. Jon's a diplomat but there will come a time when he will be unable to make a compromise to achieve his goals. In his time and place a king is really the only sort of person who can get an uncompromiseable job done. Bran, on the other hand, dreamed of becoming a knight and all being a knight entails, adventure, daring and heroism. Though Jon may want to go kick Others butt I suspect Bran's already got a huge jump start on him. Jon is gaining the skill set to lead and Bran is gaining the skill set to whip Others. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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