Where are the Others?

[Cron]

4 hours ago, The Dew said:

Going against the wall at nearly full force was madness (taking into account the resistance that NW would show), and not so well prepared by Mance. Making a surprise attack at Castle Black was not the best strategy, I agree that he could have laboured more in terms of opening tunnels and climbing unguarded parts of the wall concurrently. It was purely a suicide mission on Mance's part. If he had opened the sealed tunnels then he could have fortified his position behind the wall and on the wall. With 100,000 people one could do a lot. If Bran the Builder built the wall with the assistance of Giants, then Mance Raider could have taken it down (not all of it - only one unguarded tunnel) with the assistance of the Giants. The strategy he applied does not make sense. In addition the Realm South of the Wall was and is in a warring state, who would trust who and march against the wall, since armies were scattered and alliances broken up? No one in my view. Your analysis and assumptions regarding Mance's strategies find me in agreement, as it simply does not make any sense. The only thing that was demonstrated to us was that Mance was a good diplomat and a very lousy strategist.

Agreed.

AND, of course, none of what you and i have been talkiing about recently even TOUCHES on the fact that ships could take them around the Wall altogether near Eastwatch. (a few thousand fighting men, at least, which would easily have overwhelmed the NW from the south)

Or how about the fact that Mance said in Episode 310 (after the Battle at the Wall the night before) that he had just sent 400 men to climb the Wall that morning??? Uhhhh...maybe he should have sent those guys with Tormund, Ygritte and Jon.   Then the attack from the south would have been by a few hundred wildings, instead of 20 or 30, in which case the Battle at the Wall would have been successful (no WAY could the NW, short-manned as they were, possibly defend the Wall AND such an invasion of wildings from the south.  Mance said some of the 400 wold fall and die, but even if 50 to 100 fell, we're still talking about 300 to 350 attacking from the south.  The approximately 100 NW men would have been annihilated, no question)

Strategic possibilities go on and on and on.  The Wall was just too vulnerable and too big (stretching for too many miles) for the heavily depleted forces of the NW to realistically defend...unless the King/General leading the attack was Mance Rayder.

 

[Cron]

2 hours ago, NutBurz said:

A few points regarding Mance´s strategy:

-He doesn´t know what is happening in the South(of the wall), he has bits and pieces of information, so much so that Stannis lands his army without them expecting it.

-I´m sorry if I misunderstood, but it seems you´re saying he should have spread all his forces along the unprotected areas of the Wall and then attacked from the South?

From his point of view, that´s a bad idea. They´re not good at coordinating, he can´t be everywhere at the same time, he can´t be sure there´s not a Southern army at every gate waiting for him to attack with a stretched-thin force so that they can outmanuever and flank him from his side of the wall, he can´t be sure they won´t have sealed the tunnels with Ice like Jon suggested, he can´t force all his army to climb the wall for 8 hours and fight effectively the next second.

Of course he could suppose he would be successful in many spots of the wall, but then there would be large amounts of Wildlings prancing about the north, in need to feed and rest. Even his small party failed to go undetected, a large invasion would surely cause the Northern lords to march north - and then, if there´s resistance at any spot of the wall, he will only have managed to impose two fronts of battle to his army on the south side of the Wall.

Always keeping in mind that, when it comes to Wildlings, "army" is a kindness.

I´m not saying he wouldn´t succeed, maybe he would, but he wouldn´t make this decision - mainly because he did not have an army of 100k soldiers, he was just the only thing holding ten warring tribes of 10k people together.

Even if he attacked in strenght but on a different point of the wall, all he would be doing would be triggering the Northern Lords which was the one thing he needed to avoid. He needed the Night´s Watch submission.

 

He was terribly wrong about one thing - that the Night´s Watch´s word would be worth anything to the Realm.

No, I wasn't suggesting Mance should have spread his forces out along hundreds of miles.

My points in mentioning the great length of the Wall were that:

(a) there are many points of vulnerability (indeed, as I recall, 16 of the 19 forts were completely undefended.  Mance could have scouted along the wall to find the best place to attack, which to me means the MOST vulnerable spot, not the LEAST vulnerable spot, which is what Mance chose at Castle Black), and

(b) because of the length of the Wall, Mance could pick his spot and have QUITE a bit of time to climb the Wall, dig out the tunnels, then fortify his position before the men of the NW even arrived.  Let's say Mance attacked halfway between Castle Black and the Shadow Tower, or halfway between Castle Black and Eastwatch.  How long would it be before the NW even KNEW what was happening?  5 hours?  5 DAYS???  How long until some man of the NW wanders by there and says "Whoa, 100,000 wildlings are attacking the Wall!!!"  (Do they have patrols that go that far?  If so, that's quite a patrol, we are talking roughly as much as 75 miles from ANY defended fort) And then that guy has got to go to one of the defended forts, sound the alarm, they've got to get a force ready and send them out, then they've got to travel to where the invasion was occurring, and THEN they are facing dug in and/or otherwise fortified wildlings in VAST numbers.

Mance had an opportunity to seize the initiative in a BIG way in his invasion, buying himself at least hours (and possibly even days) before the NW could even begin to react, and he totally botched it by going straight to Castle Black, completely destroying ANY element of surprise he had (by attacking where there were so many NW,, AND by lighting that huge fire, intended to be a signal to Tormnd's raiding party, regarding whom, by the way, I'm not even sure how it's possible Tormund SAW that fire from behind the Wall), and then attacked at the NW's point of greatest strength.

I'm sorry, but in my book Mance gets an "F" for strategy, plain and simple.

[Cron]

1 hour ago, Rhaegun said:

The magic of the wall keeps out the White Walkers.  Wights are not White Walkers.  

Plus the bodies were brought through the wall by the Night's Watch, then became re-animated. If I recall correctly.

If you're right about the wights not being hampered by the Wall's magic, then that makes my belief that the Wall is very vulnerable to the Others even stronger, and the failure of the Others to attack even more baffling.  However, while I'm NOT saying you're wrong, I've yet to see anybody here cite and quote canon material (books or show) for the details of related "rules."

Even if the wights need to be carried through or over the Wall, though, I could still think of ways the Night King could exploit the fact that wights CAN function on the south side (which we know for a fact cuz Jon killed some in Castle Black, which is NOT on or in the Wall, it is on the south side of the Wall).  

[NutBurz]

2 hours ago, Cron said:

No, I wasn't suggesting Mance should have spread his forces out along hundreds of miles.

My points in mentioning the great length of the Wall were that:

(a) there are many points of vulnerability (indeed, as I recall, 16 of the 19 forts were completely undefended.  Mance could have scouted along the wall to find the best place to attack, which to me means the MOST vulnerable spot, not the LEAST vulnerable spot, which is what Mance chose at Castle Black), and

(b) because of the length of the Wall, Mance could pick his spot and have QUITE a bit of time to climb the Wall, dig out the tunnels, then fortify his position before the men of the NW even arrived.  Let's say Mance attacked halfway between Castle Black and the Shadow Tower, or halfway between Castle Black and Eastwatch.  How long would it be before the NW even KNEW what was happening?  5 hours?  5 DAYS???  How long until some man of the NW wanders by there and says "Whoa, 100,000 wildlings are attacking the Wall!!!"  (Do they have patrols that go that far?  If so, that's quite a patrol, we are talking roughly as much as 75 miles from ANY defended fort) And then that guy has got to go to one of the defended forts, sound the alarm, they've got to get a force ready and send them out, then they've got to travel to where the invasion was occurring, and THEN they are facing dug in and/or otherwise fortified wildlings in VAST numbers.

Mance had an opportunity to seize the initiative in a BIG way in his invasion, buying himself at least hours (and possibly even days) before the NW could even begin to react, and he totally botched it by going straight to Castle Black, completely destroying ANY element of surprise he had (by attacking where there were so many NW,, AND by lighting that huge fire, intended to be a signal to Tormnd's raiding party, regarding whom, by the way, I'm not even sure how it's possible Tormund SAW that fire from behind the Wall), and then attacked at the NW's point of greatest strength.

I'm sorry, but in my book Mance gets an "F" for strategy, plain and simple.

Ok, so you´re suggesting Mance did the same thing, but in another point of the wall.

Like I said -

Quote

Even if he attacked in strenght but on a different point of the wall, all he would be doing would be triggering the Northern Lords which was the one thing he needed to avoid. He needed the Night´s Watch submission.

 

Your point a) assumes Mance wants to invade the South, as in declare war against the Northern Lords. He doesn´t. He can´t afford it.

Regarding b), that´s all true, but I have the feeling you think Mance failed on his objective, and he didn´t. He needed the institution "Night´s Watch", he didn´t want to exterminate them. If he wanted to exterminate them, maybe it would be worth to wager on sending a larger invading force to hit them from the south, at the risk of drawing attention of some southern army. But the way he did it, when the battle was over, the Night´s Watch chain of command was disrupted and their morale was in shambles. He won the battle, if it was not Jon at the moment he did, someone else would eventually surrender, and his terms would be "safe passage through the wall, land in the gift". He expected the Realm to honor the Night´s Watch surrender.

He could never win open war against even a handful of northern houses, even if all his 100k wildlings were safe and rested on the South side of the Wall. And he knew that.

[Runaway Penguin]

In the end he got that, though he wasn't the one dictating the terms. Still, even if his plan worked, he would have hard time holding his raiders in hand (not to mention people who wanted to go South as far as South goes).

 

Heck, his ultimate plan might even have been similar arrangement to Jon's - offering Wildlings to bolster the Wall's defences. would be unimaginable for his followers, but as far as keeping Others at bay is concerned, he probably thought about it.

[The Dew]

4 hours ago, Cron said:

Agreed.

AND, of course, none of what you and i have been talkiing about recently even TOUCHES on the fact that ships could take them around the Wall altogether near Eastwatch. (a few thousand fighting men, at least, which would easily have overwhelmed the NW from the south)

Or how about the fact that Mance said in Episode 310 (after the Battle at the Wall the night before) that he had just sent 400 men to climb the Wall that morning??? Uhhhh...maybe he should have sent those guys with Tormund, Ygritte and Jon.   Then the attack from the south would have been by a few hundred wildings, instead of 20 or 30, in which case the Battle at the Wall would have been successful (no WAY could the NW, short-manned as they were, possibly defend the Wall AND such an invasion of wildings from the south.  Mance said some of the 400 wold fall and die, but even if 50 to 100 fell, we're still talking about 300 to 350 attacking from the south.  The approximately 100 NW men would have been annihilated, no question)

Strategic possibilities go on and on and on.  The Wall was just too vulnerable and too big (stretching for too many miles) for the heavily depleted forces of the NW to realistically defend...unless the King/General leading the attack was Mance Rayder.

 

Yep true, we did not discuss the possibilities of a naval landing at Eastwatch-by-the-sea. Mance as a former brother of the NW knew all the routines of the NW, weaknesses etc., and could have played the game of thrones better. Therefore to me as a reader Mance Rayder is portrayed by GRRM as a complete and utter strategic failure that has ever walked or will walk on the Seven Kingdoms. Mance is romantic, diplomat, trustful, dreamer, idealist, but not a Commander from facts, or a Traitor who led the Wildlings to slaughter and annihilation. So this is Mance's fault.

To reply to your good question as to where are the others, I believe that they are hiding and preparing for the Winter.

[Runaway Penguin]

Building ships is not fast. Hard to do in secrecy. Again, it would give time to the Northern Lords to set aside differences for a little while and to step in. Fast pincer attack on Castle Black was Mance's best chance how to get through the Wall quickly - the main host of wildlings was basically performing attack from march column to borrow military terminology - while the sabotage group would be quite enough to capture Castle Black if Jon was not with them (and if Ygritte hit properly). With Castle Black captured, Brothers on the wall can retreat, surrender or die, as tunnel would have fallen. Mance would still have opportunity to try to scale the Wall on both sides of CB (would take longer, but he had the numbers). The only thing stopping him was Stannis.

His plan was sound, he just did not expect the totally unexpected - a Southron lord suddenly popping up behind him with a large modern army.

[Cron]

10 hours ago, NutBurz said:

Ok, so you´re suggesting Mance did the same thing, but in another point of the wall.

Like I said -

 

Your point a) assumes Mance wants to invade the South, as in declare war against the Northern Lords. He doesn´t. He can´t afford it.

Regarding b), that´s all true, but I have the feeling you think Mance failed on his objective, and he didn´t. He needed the institution "Night´s Watch", he didn´t want to exterminate them. If he wanted to exterminate them, maybe it would be worth to wager on sending a larger invading force to hit them from the south, at the risk of drawing attention of some southern army. But the way he did it, when the battle was over, the Night´s Watch chain of command was disrupted and their morale was in shambles. He won the battle, if it was not Jon at the moment he did, someone else would eventually surrender, and his terms would be "safe passage through the wall, land in the gift". He expected the Realm to honor the Night´s Watch surrender.

He could never win open war against even a handful of northern houses, even if all his 100k wildlings were safe and rested on the South side of the Wall. And he knew that.

In negotiatinos, it is best to negotiate from a position of greatest strength.  Mance would have had FAR more strength and leverage to negotiate with the NW if he had taken and secured one or more forts.  Then, their passage beyond the Wall would hav been a fait accompli that the NW would have had NO CHOICE but to deal with, and I strongly believe Mance would have been in a much better position to negotiate all the stuff you say from the NW.  NOT incidentally, the wildings would have been in a FAR better position to defend against Stannis (the cavalry are pretty much uselss in attacking the Wall) and Mance would be still alive (in the show).

I'm sorry, my friend, but I just do not see how Mance was better off the way he did it than he would have been occupying one or more forts.  You say he didn't want to wipe out the NW.  Okay, that's fine.  So, he could hole up  in one or more forts, and NOT wipe out the NW from there.  Other factors (food, land from the Gift) are basically the same from a negotiating standpoint, but then, as I mentioned, Mance would have had FAR greater negotiating leverage.

Just my opinions.

[Cron]

7 hours ago, The Dew said:

Yep true, we did not discuss the possibilities of a naval landing at Eastwatch-by-the-sea. Mance as a former brother of the NW knew all the routines of the NW, weaknesses etc., and could have played the game of thrones better. Therefore to me as a reader Mance Rayder is portrayed by GRRM as a complete and utter strategic failure that has ever walked or will walk on the Seven Kingdoms. Mance is romantic, diplomat, trustful, dreamer, idealist, but not a Commander from facts, or a Traitor who led the Wildlings to slaughter and annihilation. So this is Mance's fault.

To reply to your good question as to where are the others, I believe that they are hiding and preparing for the Winter.

Good points.

I wonder if Mance is really dead in the show.  (I think so, but there's still an outside chance that it was a glamour, like in the books, I believe)

[Runaway Penguin]

1 hour ago, Cron said:

In negotiatinos, it is best to negotiate from a position of greatest strength.  Mance would have had FAR more strength and leverage to negotiate with the NW if he had taken and secured one or more forts.  Then, their passage beyond the Wall would hav been a fait accompli that the NW would have had NO CHOICE but to deal with, and I strongly believe Mance would have been in a much better position to negotiate all the stuff you say from the NW.  NOT incidentally, the wildings would have been in a FAR better position to defend against Stannis (the cavalry are pretty much uselss in attacking the Wall) and Mance would be still alive (in the show).

I'm sorry, my friend, but I just do not see how Mance was better off the way he did it than he would have been occupying one or more forts.  You say he didn't want to wipe out the NW.  Okay, that's fine.  So, he could hole up  in one or more forts, and NOT wipe out the NW from there.  Other factors (food, land from the Gift) are basically the same from a negotiating standpoint, but then, as I mentioned, Mance would have had FAR greater negotiating leverage.

Just my opinions.

In such scenario widldings are likely caught with sforces split on either side of the Wall. Holding the Wall itself is not that important. Getting all the women, children etc. over it is going to take time, digging tunnel is going to take time, in the same time you get jammed between the Northern Lords and the Others. 

Do not forget that the abandoned forts has tunnels sealed. Clearing them out would be a long, slow, hard work. The goal is to get a Wall behind you fast, before Others catch up with your game. 

Once again, it almost worked - the major bummer was Stannis, the minor bummer was Jon. Had Mance slit Jon¨s throat in the beginning, Castle Black gets no warning at all, gets taken and it is over. Even with Jon's warning and failure of the first attack directly at the gate, next attack (demonstration against gate, climbers on both flanks) would succeed. Even so it would be much faster than digging (or building elevators/gantries).

[The Dew]

6 hours ago, Cron said:

Good points.

I wonder if Mance is really dead in the show.  (I think so, but there's still an outside chance that it was a glamour, like in the books, I believe)

If all the books had been published prior airing of the Game of Thrones (Winds of Winter and A Dream of Spring), then more details would have been incorporated in at least 3 further full 10-episode seasons. I want to believe that Mance is alive under glamour, but to date nothing has been shown to us, even as a hint. Big chunks of the book are left out.

Now that Winterfell is taken in the show, I do not know what Mance's scope and purpose would be if he is still alive under glamour. He may help the re-establishment of House Stark in the North, and assist them further as their vassal, butr with all the cut downs on the show, I doubt it, I want it to happen but I unfortunately doubt it.

[[Deleted]]

42 minutes ago, The Dew said:

If all the books had been published prior airing of the Game of Thrones (Winds of Winter and A Dream of Spring), then more details would have been incorporated in at least 3 further full 10-episode seasons. I want to believe that Mance is alive under glamour, but to date nothing has been shown to us, even as a hint. Big chunks of the book are left out.

Now that Winterfell is taken in the show, I do not know what Mance's scope and purpose would be if he is still alive under glamour. He may help the re-establishment of House Stark in the North, and assist them further as their vassal, butr with all the cut downs on the show, I doubt it, I want it to happen but I unfortunately doubt it.

Yeah, Mance is dead and gone. What you see on the show is what you get, and they hadn't really established glamoring at all before episode 1 of this season. It would seem really cheap to bring him back now, because then that would be telling viewers "Hey, all the people you thought were dead? The MIGHT have just totally been glamored, yo!"

As many missteps as D&D have made, I think that is a bridge too far for even them.

[The Dew]

Just now, Aegonzo The Great said:

Yeah, Mance is dead and gone. What you see on the show is what you get, and they hadn't really established glamoring at all before episode 1 of this season. It would seem really cheap to bring him back now, because then that would be telling viewers "Hey, all the people you thought were dead? The MIGHT have just totally been glamored, yo!"

As many missteps as D&D have made, I think that is a bridge too far for even them.

Yep I believe the same, it would be erratic to do so at this stage, without even one hint.

As to the Others, if I remember correctly, in one of the tales about them aren't they said to lurk under the snow?

[Cron]

15 hours ago, Runaway Penguin said:

In such scenario widldings are likely caught with sforces split on either side of the Wall. Holding the Wall itself is not that important. Getting all the women, children etc. over it is going to take time, digging tunnel is going to take time, in the same time you get jammed between the Northern Lords and the Others. 

Do not forget that the abandoned forts has tunnels sealed. Clearing them out would be a long, slow, hard work. The goal is to get a Wall behind you fast, before Others catch up with your game. 

Once again, it almost worked - the major bummer was Stannis, the minor bummer was Jon. Had Mance slit Jon¨s throat in the beginning, Castle Black gets no warning at all, gets taken and it is over. Even with Jon's warning and failure of the first attack directly at the gate, next attack (demonstration against gate, climbers on both flanks) would succeed. Even so it would be much faster than digging (or building elevators/gantries).

You make some interesting points, but I think you are WAY too concerned about the northern lords.

I believe defending the forts from attack is a far better option than attacking from the northiern side of the Wall.  I simply cannot believe that Mance could possibly be in a stronger postion where he was than if he had grabbed a fort or two and assumed a defensive posture.

As i've said a few times, wth the MASSIVE labor force available to the wildilings (including giants and mammoths), I believe the wildlings could hav cleared tunnels (and/or bored NEW tunnels through the Wall) FAR more quickly than the northern lords could have mobilzed men and raced up to those forts to defend them.  Indeed, I believe the wildings could have cleared the tunnels and occupied the forts even before the northern lords had so much as a CLUE as to what was going on.

That's my opinion.

[tormond]

there's a theory that Benjen is actually working with the White Walkers and they are waiting for Bran to cross the wall, i dont dismiss this theory. The theory certainly has some teeth. How in the world are the WW crossing the Wall if whatever spell hold them back isnt broken, and if they haven broken it, is because they dont have the power to do it. I hope that Bran questions himself, at least for common sense, whether he would break the spells if it crosses cause he already knows that he broke the spell at the cave.

[Lorenzo98]

The others are on the way to the wall. Since it can't be climbed by dead people as it is protected by enchantment they will do something to destroy it. It will not take long before they reach the wall and destroy it because winter has arrived and there is no way out, unless Daenerys lands in Westeros on time.

[DaMavs]

22 hours ago, Cron said:

You make some interesting points, but I think you are WAY too concerned about the northern lords.

I believe defending the forts from attack is a far better option than attacking from the northiern side of the Wall.  I simply cannot believe that Mance could possibly be in a stronger postion where he was than if he had grabbed a fort or two and assumed a defensive posture.

As i've said a few times, wth the MASSIVE labor force available to the wildilings (including giants and mammoths), I believe the wildlings could hav cleared tunnels (and/or bored NEW tunnels through the Wall) FAR more quickly than the northern lords could have mobilzed men and raced up to those forts to defend them.  Indeed, I believe the wildings could have cleared the tunnels and occupied the forts even before the northern lords had so much as a CLUE as to what was going on.

That's my opinion.

Do remember that the forts of the Night's Watch are intentionally designed only to repel invaders from the North.  They are intentionally nearly defenseless from the South as to prevent the Night's Watch from going rogue as a former commander once did long ago.  That's why Mance sent some wildlings over the wall to attack from the South anyway, but it also makes holding a Fort far more difficult as the wildlings wouldn't be defending from prepared positions versus any Northern Lords.

 

It's an interesting point about the labor force available.  Although I presume the tunnels at the deserted forts were frozen solid as to make them impassable.  Is boring through the wall realistic given the tools of the wildlings?  Perhaps.  But it also certainly makes for far less dramatic television/prose than battling their way through...

[Cron]

9 hours ago, DaMavs said:

Do remember that the forts of the Night's Watch are intentionally designed only to repel invaders from the North.  They are intentionally nearly defenseless from the South as to prevent the Night's Watch from going rogue as a former commander once did long ago.  That's why Mance sent some wildlings over the wall to attack from the South anyway, but it also makes holding a Fort far more difficult as the wildlings wouldn't be defending from prepared positions versus any Northern Lords.

 

It's an interesting point about the labor force available.  Although I presume the tunnels at the deserted forts were frozen solid as to make them impassable.  Is boring through the wall realistic given the tools of the wildlings?  Perhaps.  But it also certainly makes for far less dramatic television/prose than battling their way through...

interesting stuff.

Let's say you're right about the forts being nearly defenseless from the south (not saying you're wrong, and it seems to make sense).

Even then, if the wildings are through the Wall and setting up defensive positions of their own on the south side for a day or so, they could do quite a bit to strengthen their defenses (dig in, dig trenches, cut down trees and bring logs through to make at least SOME kind of makeshift defenses).  Unless the northern lords become aware of what's going on and mobilize almost IMMEDIATELY, in fact, the wildings might even get a week, or two, or three before any significant forces arrive (note that the NW is NOT a significant force, they are gnats compared to 100,000 wildings, including giants and mammoths), and I am of the opinion the wildlings would be FAR better off doing this than doing what they actually did, which was to try to attack the Wall almost entirely from the north.

Regarding your last point: Sure, it arguably made for more dramatic storytelling the way they did it (book and show).   OF COURSE Mance had to do something that I still consider idiotic in order for Jon's "plot armor" to remain intact, and it's fun to discuss, but my point here has been that Mance was basically an idiot.  I maintain that if I had even a fraction of his forces, the outcome would have been very different, mostly b/c (a) the Wall is HUNDREDS of miles long that need to be defended (b) the NW is OUTRAGEOUSLY undermanned (16 out of 19 forts abandoned altogether!!!!  Why were 19 forts built in the 1st place?  Cuz that's what it took to properly defend the Wall!!!), and (c) the Wall IS vulnerable in other ways, too, such as by climbing and digging.

Mance's actions were "plot armor" for Jon and the NW, that's all.  Again, in Episode 401, Mance told Jon he had just sent 400 additional guys to climb the Wall!!!  Whatever happened to all of THEM?  Who knows??  Good thing for Jon that Mance didn't send those 400 to climb the Wall with Jon, Tormund and Ygritte, or Jon and the NW would have been toast.

And what about sailing around the Wall by Eastwatch?  Mance DIDNT have to send 100,000 guys.  Even 1,000 fighting men, on makeshift rafts or boats or canoes or whatever, would have been devastating.  My goodness, for all we know the wildlings could have gone down to Eastwatch and WADED through the water around the Wall!  Does the Wall extend into the water at all?  Not that I know of, but not much is known about Eastwatch, as far as I know.  With 100,000 wildlings, they could have easily fended off any NW there (wiped 'em out, in fact, I'm sure), and likely passed around the end of the Wall through the water at will.

Plot holes.

Plot armor.

That's all.

[Runaway Penguin]

You do not have a week or three. You do not know how far behind you are the Others. 

As for wading around Eastwatch, good luck. You don't know the water depth (except that large galleys can berth there) and the water is freezing. Dead things in the water indeed

[NutBurz]

Sorry, Cron, but the fact you´re talking about digging trenches shows you´re thinking about an army when talking about wildlings. They´re not that disciplined, they have don´t have the notion of warfare that a 15 years old nowadays would have from playing video games, one of their most experienced warriors doesn´t know what a "pincer" is.