Biggest Dropped Ball in Season 6 (S6 spoilers)

[Ser Ronan Storm]

Jon Snow is Lord Commander of the Night's Watch. Jon Snow is murdered. Jon Snow is resurrected. Jon Snow quits the Night's Watch. Jon Snow goes poking around the North trying to build an army. There's a big fucking problem here, and the show never mentions it once: deserters of the Night's Watch are punished with death.

Now, Jon Snow believes, along with most of us in the audience, that he did serve the Night's Watch for life, and then he died, so he met the criteria and his life is a blank slate now. Would've been nice for them to include a scene of this conversation with at least one Northern house. As the season stands, we're left to assume that both nobody knew he'd been Lord Commander and nobody knew he's been resurrected from death. Furthermore, everyone in the North now has amnesia regarding the laws pertaining to Night's Watch deserters.

We see with Sam in the finale that the Citadel in Oldtown had Jeor Mormont still listed as Lord Commander of the Night's Watch. But lords in the North had to have known about Jon Snow taking Mormont's place, because of Jon signing slips accepting the men various lords (including Roose Bolton) were offering to send to the Wall. Rationally, a lord seeing Jon Snow trying to recruit an army to take back Winterfell should still view him as a Night's Watch deserter, no matter how much they hate the Boltons. They would ask questions, which in turn would require Jon to mention his death and resurrection, and who the hell knows how anyone would react to that?

It would've been an important discussion to show at least once, happily with Lady Mormont. But they didn't, and now it just seems like the North is championing an oathbreaker and deserter as its next King.

[A spoon of knife and fork]

In the scene where they are talking to Ramsey before the battle, Ramsey says he'll pardon Jon Snow for deserting the NW.  Which implies indeed that people generally are aware of the desertion.  Also I can't recall for sure but I think it may have come up in the convo with Glover as well.   

I don't think Jon ever brought it up because it would have sounded dishonorable, self-serving and also extremely unbelievable for him to claim "oh, you see, I DIED and then came BACK TO LIFE and so I technically don't have to stay in the NW anymore..."  It's slimy and lawyery - that would not have played well at all.

[House_Tony_Stark]

This conversation again...I'll quote myself from another post.

Night gathers, and now my watch begins. It shall not end until my death. I shall take no wife, hold no lands, father no children. I shall wear no crowns and win no glory. I shall live and die at my post. I am the sword in the darkness. I am the watcher on the walls. I am the fire that burns against the cold, the light that brings the dawn, the horn that wakes the sleepers, the shield that guards the realms of men. I pledge my life and honor to the Night's Watch, for this night and all the nights to come.

They don't have television so it's safe to say people would assume he just left the nights watch at first. But we as the viewers must also be a little logical. Now that the is in charge of the north I'm sure word will spread about what happened, and people do believe in gods on this show. I don't see why it would be necessary to waste time watching people spread gossip last season.

Also, you can't say a vow should be a law but only honor certain parts of it. It literally says it shall not end until my death and he died. You can't saw oh well, that doesn't count! Or else you are changing a vow to suit your own personal situation rendering it pointless. Jon fulfilled his vows plain and simple, and if they want to to change the vow to include more power to them....But Jon Snow did everything he promised to do.

If you want to be mad just be mad lol but no ball was dropped.

[House_Tony_Stark]

And Ramsey is the worst person to quote about something....The whole pardoning Jon was more of a facetious jab the entire.

[House_Tony_Stark]

1 hour ago, House_Tony_Stark said:

And Ramsey is the worst person to quote about something....The whole pardoning Jon was more of a facetious jab.

 

[TheKitttenGuard]

Jon and Edd did have a discussion of this point of Jon coming back from the dead would release him from his vows. Jon was the only living person who could of been viewed as a leader at Castle Black and he is leaving.  Edd is not looking to kill the man he risk his life to bring back.

The "Pink" letter had Ramsey threaten everyone. Neither those at the Wall or the Wildings were going to be safe unless Ramsey was defeated.

The issue of the Watch was brought by Glover.  So it was a sign it did have some impact.

[Ser Quork]

Jon comes back to life and carries on as LC to execute his assassins and then states, "My watch is ended,"  and walks off as if that in any way addresses the matter!  It doesn't - it's really lazy - but it's pretty much par for the course for the show and how it hand-waves things away if it's inconvenient to the story they want to tell.  (They did the same with Sansa's marriage to Tyrion in their desperation for her to replace Jeyne Poole.)

That NW deserters are caught and executed is part of the lore of the North, and the Northern houses support the Watch. It should be a massive thing in-world.   The consequences of leaving your post are even in the first episode!  (I expect it to be partly addressed in the books by Robb's Will which was witnessed by a number of major Northern Lords and may help placate others.  However, they didn't include Robb's Will in the show because they had Talisa already pregnant, so Robb's Will plot became irrelevant and now there's nothing in the show that properly addresses Jon leaving his post without huge suspension of disbelief - and so you get another knock-on effect of their changes to the story - the butterflies becoming dragons that GRRM talks about.) 

 

[OldGimletEye]

49 minutes ago, Ser Quork said:

Jon comes back to life and carries on as LC to execute his assassins and then states, "My watch is ended,"  and walks off as if that in any way addresses the matter!  It doesn't - it's really lazy - but it's pretty much par for the course for the show and how it hand-waves things away if it's inconvenient to the story they want to tell.  (They did the same with Sansa's marriage to Tyrion in their desperation for her to replace Jeyne Poole.)

Yeah, I had a real issue with Jon holding himself out as LC, then committing executions while everyone thought he was LC, and then when the executions were over, Jon was like, "LOL guys. I am not even part of the NW anymore! See ya!"

[MoreOrLess]

I don't think its coincidence that we see Jon reading out the refusals for more men right before he's murdered by his own men. The intended impression isn't just that he's been betrayed and then gotten a "get out clause" from the Watch but rather that the whole institution of the Watch has failed. Rather than farming out the defence of the Wall to a small group of misfits and criminals lead by a handful of nobles it needs to be something that's the responsibility of everyone.

[NutBurz]

I think that could be an inconsistence with him being King in the North, I´d have no problem with the northern lords looking at Jon not as an actual deserter but as someone taking back his home with the intention of going back to the wall.

But then again, their recklessness when deciding to shout King in the North for some Ned´s kid could be a worthwhile theme.

[Ruhail]

Absolutely everything to do with Davos, Melly, Jon and Sandra. Its so bad and inconsistent. 

3 hours ago, OldGimletEye said:

Yeah, I had a real issue with Jon holding himself out as LC, then committing executions while everyone thought he was LC, and then when the executions were over, Jon was like, "LOL guys. I am not even part of the NW anymore! See ya!"

Don't forget he became, too much of a "goodguy" to kill a child murderer but his revenge is ok LOL

[Lord Lannister]

17 hours ago, House_Tony_Stark said:

This conversation again...I'll quote myself from another post.

Night gathers, and now my watch begins. It shall not end until my death. I shall take no wife, hold no lands, father no children. I shall wear no crowns and win no glory. I shall live and die at my post. I am the sword in the darkness. I am the watcher on the walls. I am the fire that burns against the cold, the light that brings the dawn, the horn that wakes the sleepers, the shield that guards the realms of men. I pledge my life and honor to the Night's Watch, for this night and all the nights to come.

 

And that second bolding makes this entire issue a circular argument. Jon had the right of it. Screw the Night's Watch. They killed him. They killed Jeor Mormont. They're nothing more than a band of criminal conscripts exiled to the edge of the world. There's a damn good reason no one is sending their sons willingly to the Wall as it was once upon a time. The show did address this point by the way in a conversation between Jon and Edd which was interrupted by Sansa's arrival at Castle Black.

[Lord Lannister]

My biggest problem with the season was the Stark girls having to one up the villains they're killing in horrible ways to murder people.

[MoreOrLess]

I think the opposite with Ayra, if she'd return to Westeros as a whiter than white hero it would have felt a bit cheap after all of the buildup of her being driven by revenge. I'd hope for any change of heart with her to be a much bigger climax than we've had so far involving characters like the Hound.

[A Ghost of Someone]

Jon Snow died, pretty much known and was resurrected. He has the death wounds to prove it. He is now a living legend in the North. Ramsay called him a deserter but that was Ramsay and he did so for obvious reasons. Not a plot hole/dropped ball. That would actually be LF still walking, breathing and talking around Sansa, Lord Royce and now, King Jon.

[Damitol]

On 7/26/2016 at 9:03 PM, Ser Ronan Storm said:

There's a big fucking problem here, and the show never mentions it once: deserters of the Night's Watch are punished with death.

I don't think so.  My understanding is that the responsibility to execute deserters falls to the Warden of the North, as we saw Ned do in episode one.  There is currently no one officially in that position since Roose is dead.  I don't know if the title automatically passes down from father to son, but even though Ramsey fancied himself the new Warden, he's now a pile of dog poop somewhere.  So - if there is no Warden of the North, and especially since the NW has lost a lot of its luster in recent years, I'm guessing the average Northern Lord has better things to worry about than someone breaking his NW vows.  And as far as we know, maybe their only real recourse if they do care is to complain to the Warden.

[Adam_Up_Bxtch]

Honestly they never show Jon showing his scars to anyone. He literally is never shown telling anybody "oh hey I died and was brought back". I was confused by why they skipped the scene where Jon tells Sansa that he died and was brought back. I thought that would of been a great scene. Maybe in the upcoming season people from outside of the north will start questioning Jon and why he abandoned the NW and we'll finally get a scene where Jon shows his scars to somebody.

Feels like after he was brought back they just completely decided to ignore that point. "Yay Jon is back, okay lets move on now he's King yay fan service! No need to have anyone discuss his supposed "death" anymore since to a normal rational person (even in Westeros there are many cynics) this would sound like a lie or just simply not true and many would be questioning him then we'd have to spend scenes having Jon show people his scars."

But tbh The Nights Watch has been the butt of many jokes in this day and age so maybe people probably just don't give a shit right now since a major Civil War just consumed most of the country recently. In the books Cersei actually finds out Jon has become Lord Commander and she is pissed about this and wants to do something about it but then she gets wrapped up with the High Sparrow before she can do anything. Would of liked to have seen a scene added in about Cersei, Jaime or somebody important in the south finding out about Jon's ascension to LC status.

[Wyman Manderly's Meat Pies]

They made the Northerners a bunch of jerks who probably wouldn't care about oaths anyway.

[TheCasualObserver]

I agree that there is inconsistency here. One of the first things the show presents in ep 1 of season 1 is a guy being killed for deserting the watch. We know that Jon has died and been resurrected, so it makes sense to the audience, but how many people in the story do? The Northern Lords really should have been ignoring Jon the deserter and competing with one another on who get's to marry Sansa and rule through her.

[Ser Ronan Storm]

The poor Northern Lords are just the silliest chaps on this show. Conveniently ignoring Night's Watch desertions and Jon's bastardy, and also rushing to king a man who displays poor judgement at every turn. His suicide charge at Ramsay that his own men had to bail him out of likely cost more of their lives than if he'd held back and stuck to their original plan. He pissed so many people off as Lord Commander that he got himself killed. Those are definitely leadership qualities I want my king to have.