Most important meeting in the series? (Season 7)

[illinifan]

19 hours ago, DutchArya said:

Cersei/TheMoutain will die by Danys/Dragons or other players in KL. Her list will be done. If anything, I can see Jon helping Arya heal and her finding a new purpose. 

In the books, Arya and Bran are on freakishly similar parallel journeys and having them reunite would be very interesting. Bran may bring down the Wall, but he will escape the WW somehow and will hopefully make it back to his family. I can imagine Arya being fiercely protective of him as well. Jon won't be angry, he can't hold a grudge and its Bran, his family. 

Jaime kills Cersei probably to protect KL from complete destruction. 

[A spoon of knife and fork]

Unlike what some would claim, I think they are almost TOO similar to get along very well.  Jon and Dany have both benefitted by having partners who are much less super serious/introspective all the time.  

Think about Dany - she enjoys people around her who are a bit of fun and have a sense of humor, like Daario or Tyrion.  Jon really needed Sam and Ygritte to get him to turn his frown upside down once in awhile (look what a grump he was in S 6 without either of them).  

Both of them have really high moral standards especially when it comes to protecting the weak / taking out villains.  Jon acts with a cold rage and Dany with a firey one but otherwise that's similar too.  

Anywa I think they will work together because it's the right thing to do and that's what they are both all about.  Buy they are going to be a bit of a downer on each other because their personalities are too similar.  If they rule together it's probably best if they stay in their separate halves of the kingdom.  

[Darksky]

58 minutes ago, A spoon of knife and fork said:

Unlike what some would claim, I think they are almost TOO similar to get along very well.  Jon and Dany have both benefitted by having partners who are much less super serious/introspective all the time.  

Think about Dany - she enjoys people around her who are a bit of fun and have a sense of humor, like Daario or Tyrion.  Jon really needed Sam and Ygritte to get him to turn his frown upside down once in awhile (look what a grump he was in S 6 without either of them).  

It wasn't due to their absence.More like itmight just have had to do with that little detail of him having been viciously murdered by his sworn brothers and resurrected, having experienced black abyss of nothingness after death as well as having had to execute a teenage boy he was a mentor to. Despite that, he still smiled/laughed more than in the previous seasons. Daenerys likes guys who give her agency, who don't stifle her, who are strong-willed and determined. It's not about being clownish, 

[JonSnowed]

I actually do not see this happening during season 7 but both may find out about the other this coming season.  I am expecting some sort of uneasy truce as no way Dany takes kindly to the fact Jon has a likely better right to the throne that she does.

[StoneColdJorahMormont]

The tough part I'm seeing is where Theon's real allegiance lies, He is now back on reasonably good terms with Sansa, If he is planning on teaming up with Dany with his sister. Will he go against Sansa again ? even if it is just for a short while before they maybe form an allegiance. Will Jon accept him as part of Dany's allies knowing he betrayed his brother Robb.

Why was Theon never added to Arya's list of people to kill, was she unaware of his betrayal that led to the sacking of Winterfell ?

[illinifan]

5 hours ago, Darksky said:

It wasn't due to their absence.More like itmight just have had to do with that little detail of him having been viciously murdered by his sworn brothers and resurrected, having experienced black abyss of nothingness after death as well as having had to execute a teenage boy he was a mentor to. Despite that, he still smiled/laughed more than in the previous seasons. Daenerys likes guys who give her agency, who don't stifle her, who are strong-willed and determined. It's not about being clownish, 

Yeah.  Jon spent most of the season experiencing PTSD.

And I suspect that there will be tension between the two because Jon will not be impressed by Dany's titles and Dany will not like that Jon refuses to kneel to her.

[A spoon of knife and fork]

42 minutes ago, illinifan said:

Yeah.  Jon spent most of the season experiencing PTSD.

And I suspect that there will be tension between the two because Jon will not be impressed by Dany's titles and Dany will not like that Jon refuses to kneel to her.

Come on.  Dany is not stupid enough to "demand" that anyone kneel to her.  She already demonstrated this twice.  How would you imagine this would even occur?

[Winterstars]

Dany must be confused to meet someone like Jon, the kind of man she never meet before. I mean, his brooding look, his sullen face, his melancholia, his fcking honour.

Same with Jon, I think. Dany is no ordinary woman. Jon can be annoyed by her, or impressed by her strength and think of her as warrior queen. But he absolutely won't be amused by her titles, lol.

That's why I have to see their reaction when they finally learn of their related blood. I think Dany will be like, "What? He isn't like me at all." and refuse to believe. It has so many possibilities. Dany could be very happy to know that she is not the last Targaryen alive too, or otherwise, she will think of him as threat.

In my head, she will either become an ass to him or be very protective to him. As for Jon, he always has soft spot for his family, so....yeah he is just.... What a good man

Hope we will get auntie-complex/nephew-complex in the future. Or just give me some Targaryen conflict! I love both

[illinifan]

1 hour ago, A spoon of knife and fork said:

Come on.  Dany is not stupid enough to "demand" that anyone kneel to her.  She already demonstrated this twice.  How would you imagine this would even occur?

Really?  You think that she isn't?  I don't.  Westros is her by rights.  The fact that people could care less about her will throw her for a loop.

[A spoon of knife and fork]

6 minutes ago, illinifan said:

Really?  You think that she isn't?  I don't.  Westros is her by rights.  The fact that people could care less about her will throw her for a loop.

ok - so tell me where did she demand that Yara and Theon "kneel"?  Oh wait she didn't.  She agreed to their request that they can still call themselves kings - as long as they stop being ridiculous black hat rapist-murderers. Tyrion, Jorah, Barristan, and the Dothraki all knelt without being asked or "demanded" to.  Tyrion took awhile, until s6e10 - Did Dany ever demand it of him?  No.  

Shes perfectly aware some in westeros will resist her.  And come off it, of course people in westeros will "care" about her.  She has the single largest invasion army in history and three Mythological beasts on her side.  

And you think Jon is idiot enough to tell Dany to fuck off when shows up with exactly the weapons they need to fight the WW and proposes an alliance?

i give both characters the credit they are due.

[Darksky]

The dragons won't be of that much help in the fierce blizzard and against hundreds of thousands wights. There are only three of them (provided all of them survive KL's invasion) and they're not of Balerion's size. They won't be able to burn all of them. They might not be able to do anything against White Walkers. They might be of some help but people have been seriously overstating their part in the war. If they get shot down they're dead meat. A downed dragon is a dead dragon as Gobber the Belch once said.

Bet the dragons will end up a threat to the citizens of Westeros as much as White Walkers are. I'd like to see a dragonslayer theme incorporated into the story. It'd be quite neat if Jon,a  secret Targaryen, killed a dragon, instead of riding it as it's widely expected. Playing with fandom's expectations is what Martin and D+D like to do. 

There's no the Dragon Must have Three Heads prophecy in the show anyway.

[Back in Black-Snow]

I wonder if Jon might happen across a dead Arya Stark toward the end of the season. Kind of how Jon and Bran came so close to reuniting before Bran decided he had to go a different route.

I can just see the show setting it up (next season) so that the viewers see the reunion coming, but Arya is killed before it happens (whether from a fight or from freezing). I really hope Jon was wrong when he said she would die of the cold with a Needle in her hand.

[StoneColdJorahMormont]

16 minutes ago, Travis said:

I wonder if Jon might happen across a dead Arya Stark toward the end of the season. Kind of how Jon and Bran came so close to reuniting before Bran decided he had to go a different route.

I can just see the show setting it up (next season) so that the viewers see the reunion coming, but Arya is killed before it happens (whether from a fight or from freezing). I really hope Jon was wrong when he said she would die of the cold with a Needle in her hand.

Not that i'm all for people dying but within the show, now that we are getting closer to the end and main characters are less likely to die, i would be all for it as it's been a while since we had a shocking death.

[Gaz0680]

I'd much rather Jon die than Arya. Her story seems so unfinished. Jon's is too, but not to the same extent. 

Jon is too much of the classic hero type and really needs to die before all is said and done. I for one will be seriously pissed and disappointed in both GRRM and the show runners if Jon gets the classic ending of ruling the kingdoms and also being the champion in fight against white walkers and fulfilling his prophesied "destiny". Way way WAY too Harry Potter for my liking. 

I will be equally disappointed if all the prophecies play out and actually happen. Most of them shouldn't.

Arya on the other hand, is not a hero. She has been through a lot, but also made some questionable decisions on the way and some sociopathic tendencies.

 

[illinifan]

5 hours ago, A spoon of knife and fork said:

ok - so tell me where did she demand that Yara and Theon "kneel"?  Oh wait she didn't.  She agreed to their request that they can still call themselves kings - as long as they stop being ridiculous black hat rapist-murderers. Tyrion, Jorah, Barristan, and the Dothraki all knelt without being asked or "demanded" to.  Tyrion took awhile, until s6e10 - Did Dany ever demand it of him?  No.  

Shes perfectly aware some in westeros will resist her.  And come off it, of course people in westeros will "care" about her.  She has the single largest invasion army in history and three Mythological beasts on her side.  

And you think Jon is idiot enough to tell Dany to fuck off when shows up with exactly the weapons they need to fight the WW and proposes an alliance?

i give both characters the credit they are due.

Because creating tension between the two main characters is storytelling 101?  If everything is hunky dory between them and it is true love forever, then it isn't fun.  I suspect that the tension is created by Jon finding Dany arrogant (I am going to recite my gazillion titles now) and Dany being angry with the North refusing to bend a knee.  I'm sure the fact that Jon actually has a better claim on the Iron Throne than Dany does won't help things.  Yes, they will still ally but will snipe at each other.  

[A spoon of knife and fork]

31 minutes ago, illinifan said:

Because creating tension between the two main characters is storytelling 101?  If everything is hunky dory between them and it is true love forever, then it isn't fun.  I suspect that the tension is created by Jon finding Dany arrogant (I am going to recite my gazillion titles now) and Dany being angry with the North refusing to bend a knee.  I'm sure the fact that Jon actually has a better claim on the Iron Throne than Dany does won't help things.  Yes, they will still ally but will snipe at each other.  

There are plenty of ways to make good drama and dramatic tension without having characters act stupidly and out of character for no reason.  Actually, that's bad drama 101 - in fact it's why people are so pissed about the Arya bullshit this season.  

There are plenty of actually well written ways to go - for example, there's plenty of drama in their respective retinues without people acting like idiots.

Greyjoy - Will Bran or Jon be angered by the presence of Theon?  Other northern lords not liking the idea of Yara Greyjoy as an ally after she killed so many of them?

Lannister - Jon got along with Tyrion once, but can he trust a Lannister?  What if Jaime joins with one side or the other?  Will Daenerys accept the Kingslayer?  What about Bran and Jaime?  Will Sansa or Brienne intervene in support of the Lannister bros?  

Then you have players like the Dornish, Olenna Tyrell, Littlefinger, etc.  

Or, maybe they just don't like each other much but have to work together.  Like I said they both are frankly, kind of downers - and if they have a difference of opinion about what's right, or if a plan risks one of their people more, there will be tension. 

There's plenty of drama to be had that is organic and not contrived BS.

[Stannis is the man....nis]

I'm sorry but can I just get off my chest that the whole "Jon and Dany fall in love" is an stupid idea? Seriously you think that after everything GRRM has done that he is gonna have his big couple be two characters who have spent like 80% of this story not even knowing who the other one is? Seriously I've seen people say Dany will be Nissa Nissa but it has had no build up if Jon has to have a Nissa Nissa it has to be Ghost or Arya

[illinifan]

20 minutes ago, A spoon of knife and fork said:

There are plenty of ways to make good drama and dramatic tension without having characters act stupidly and out of character for no reason.  Actually, that's bad drama 101 - in fact it's why people are so pissed about the Arya bullshit this season.  

There are plenty of actually well written ways to go - for example, there's plenty of drama in their respective retinues without people acting like idiots.

Greyjoy - Will Bran or Jon be angered by the presence of Theon?  Other northern lords not liking the idea of Yara Greyjoy as an ally after she killed so many of them?

Lannister - Jon got along with Tyrion once, but can he trust a Lannister?  What if Jaime joins with one side or the other?  Will Daenerys accept the Kingslayer?  What about Bran and Jaime?  Will Sansa or Brienne intervene in support of the Lannister bros?  

Then you have players like the Dornish, Olenna Tyrell, Littlefinger, etc.  

Or, maybe they just don't like each other much but have to work together.  Like I said they both are frankly, kind of downers - and if they have a difference of opinion about what's right, or if a plan risks one of their people more, there will be tension. 

There's plenty of drama to be had that is organic and not contrived BS.

Who the f* cares about the Greyjoys?  And Tyrion and Jon already get on so it would be ridiculous to have tension between them.  Frankly, if it is true love and friendship forever and hugs and kisses between Jon and Dany, then that would be silly.  Jon and Dany really have nothing in common so them having a tension-less alliance makes no sense.  Jon, who is someone who is big on merit, isn't going to be a fan of Dany's the Iron Throne is mine and let me recite all my titles again.  And Dany isn't going to be a fan of Jon not kowtowing to her.  

And the reason why people are annoyed with the Arya storyline is because it went absolutely nowhere.  It is almost like Martin wanted to write about Braavos and dumped Arya there on a tangent.  I thought that Arya was going to end up being hired by Cersei to assassinate Dany so it was disappointing how it ended up.

[illinifan]

18 minutes ago, Stannis is the man....nis said:

I'm sorry but can I just get off my chest that the whole "Jon and Dany fall in love" is an stupid idea? Seriously you think that after everything GRRM has done that he is gonna have his big couple be two characters who have spent like 80% of this story not even knowing who the other one is? Seriously I've seen people say Dany will be Nissa Nissa but it has had no build up if Jon has to have a Nissa Nissa it has to be Ghost or Arya

A political marriage isn't true love.  That is how the War of the Roses ended.  They really don't have that much in common so it is ridiculous to suspect true love.  

[A spoon of knife and fork]

12 minutes ago, illinifan said:

Who the f* cares about the Greyjoys?  And Tyrion and Jon already get on so it would be ridiculous to have tension between them.  

They met once 5 years ago.  Since then their families have been at war.  It would be stupid for Jon not to be somewhat suspicious.  

If I was the Starks I would not be immediately into the idea of allying with the guy who supposedly killed both my brothers and the lady who took over several Northern strongholds.  Or the guy who pushed my brother out a window.  

12 minutes ago, illinifan said:

Frankly, if it is true love and friendship forever and hugs and kisses between Jon and Dany, then that would be silly.  Jon and Dany really have nothing in common so them having a tension-less alliance makes no sense.  Jon, who is someone who is big on merit, isn't going to be a fan of Dany's the Iron Throne is mine and let me recite all my titles again.  And Dany isn't going to be a fan of Jon not kowtowing to her.  

If you'd read anything I wrote you'd realize that I am not proposing a tension less alliance or love and kisses or anything of the kind.  So stop beating this dead horse.

12 minutes ago, illinifan said:

And the reason why people are annoyed with the Arya storyline is because it went absolutely nowhere.  It is almost like Martin wanted to write about Braavos and dumped Arya there on a tangent.  I thought that Arya was going to end up being hired by Cersei to assassinate Dany so it was disappointing how it ended up.

No, people we pissed off because Arya acted like an idiot for no reason, got lethally stabbed, and then somehow survived anyway.