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A look at part of the history of Westeros involving Men, Giants, the CoTf, the Night's watch and the Others with my tinfoil locked away in the cupboard.


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I have been part of discussions lately on the topic here, and I've been thinking a lot on everybody's angles. I have decided to take a step back, put any tinfoil hats I had lying around locked away and tried to look at things in the most rational way I could and write down my thoughts. This is not an essay, it actually reads more like the timeline appendices you see at the end of Tolkiens LOTR. 

It is basic and pretty vague but what I see as simply a very high possibility of what has happened throughout the history of Westeros. Read on if you will. I have not put years etc as I think the history records on years in this story are purposely very jumbled up, and this is proven with the doubt we see throughout the WOIAF on exactly when things happened.

Basically, this is a long time ago.

CoTf and Giants live in the land known as Westeros.

The First men come, crossing the arm into the lands of Dorne, spreading North.

The First men anger the children by cutting down sacred Weirwood trees and unsettling their way of life.

Battle ensues. The children are losing. In desperation they try something monumental. Their Greenseers gather to work their magic and bring the floods that break the arm of Dorne. 

This causes the global climate change that will mess the seasons up causing longer spans of each season.

After the chaos the first men and the CoTf decide on a pact of peace. This pact possibly sees a merge of the races which in turn sees the cotf's magic run through the blood of the First men which becomes apparent later in the appearance of human greenseers etc. 

The pact is too late in regards to the climate damage being done. The Others, a very unique strange race who have dwelt in the far North where their climate suits them have stirred and can move further south every time the winters get longer until the coming of an extremely long summer which the Others figure will precede an even longer winter. 

These harsh weather conditions see the Others migrate further south than ever before.

They are met with resistance from the CoTf and men. This resistance will provoke war and many casualties and near desolation of Westeros. 

Strengths and weaknesses are learned. 

The Others can raise the dead they kill as wights to fight for them. And they cannot be killed by normal weapons. 

They can however be killed by Obsidian/Dragonglass/Frozen fire. Also a weapon appears in the history records named Dragonsteel, which the Others can not stand against. Where this came from and what exactly it is made from is still unclear.

Men and the CoTf ally together, the Nights watch is born, and with the knowledge gained on weaponry they beat back the Others in what becomes known as the war for the Dawn. 

In time Winter subsides, made less harsh possibly by the retreat of the Others? Who's coming brought the climate to an even harsher temperature? Speculation here.

The rebuild begins during the next cycle of seasons in preparation for the next long Winter when the Others may be emboldened to migrate again due to the change in temperature to the south. 

A colossal structure of ice is built by men, Giants and the CoTf, warded with magic. Manned by the relatively new military order the Nights watch who are tasked with staying true to one cause only. Guard the realms of men to the South and hold the wall against any return of the Others. The Night's watch are supplied with one hundred Obsidian daggers each year to help with this task. 

Winterfell is built upon a site of hot springs which possibly was a pivotal location in the battle for the Dawn where men won an important victory against the Others/Winter. 

House Stark is founded and reign as Kings of Winter in Winterfell. Possibly in reference to one of the houses members being an integral part of the victory gained over the Others. 

The thirteenth Lord Commander of the Nights watch has ideas to become a King and reign from the Wall.  Historic rumour speaks of a pact between this King and the Others involving sacrifices. This LC is said to be a Stark and he is now known as the Night's King.

The Stark in Winterfell, alleged to be the brother of the Night's King, furious at this practice occurring at the Wall, rides to put the Lord Commander down with the help of a leader figure of the free folk who have begun to dwell beyond the Wall. This free folk figure is alleged to be Joramun.

Throughout history the Nights watch keeps to its cause and keeps the watch upon the wall for the foe of the realm, dwindling in recent generations. 

In the beginning of the current story, the longest summer in living memory is nearing its end. The Others have been stirring again for some time and possibly the longest winter since the long night beckons which may see the Others once again seek to migrate south and effectively plunge Westeros(and the lands beyond) into another Long Night. 

 

 

 

 

 

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@Cowboy Dan 

When I was writing this I thought about what we were talking about when we mentioned the Dwarves of Moria awakening the Balrog and its comparison to the CoTf and the Others.

Maybe this is a better comparison if we think of their actions bringing the Hammer of the Waters completely messing with the global climate of Planetos and therefore causing the Others to migrate south.

So they never created the Others physically, on purpose or accidentally, but they could have effectively caused the destruction that followed the Others migration.

I have left out mention of the Andals in my brief history above. Where they fit in is always a sticky topic.

If what you believe is true and the Andals coming was closer to the Long night, then here is a different angle to look at things from.

The Greenseers of the CoTF brought the Hammer of the waters successfully the first time by breaking the arm of Dorne so no more First men could come.

What if the second time they brought the Hammer of the waters at Moat Cailin, to break Westeros in two, was for a second invasion of men, the Andals. It never worked clearly but created a horrible boggy swamp area, and possibly due to something being wrong, this then caused the massive shift in climate instead of the first breaking at Dorne.

This breaking may not have broken the land in two, but it did form an immense defensive layout that was never ever breached by southern invaders but it came at a cost.

This angle I viewed from the points you have been making on the timeline being seriously wrong somewhere along the lines and it opens up many possibilities. One being the introduction of Dragonsteel/Valyrian steel a lot easier if the timeline events are closer than the eight thousand years given.

Food for thought Cowboy.

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I find difficult to accept that Westeros has a 8.000 years old legends, but you don't hear a thing about a time when the seasons lasted three months. And, even stranger, neither the people of Essos have stories about it.

Yet, you could be right.

On the other hand, about the hot springs of Winterfell, very clever.

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24 minutes ago, Ckram said:

I find difficult to accept that Westeros has a 8.000 years old legends, but you don't hear a thing about a time when the seasons lasted three months. And, even stranger, neither the people of Essos have stories about it.

Yet, you could be right.

On the other hand, about the hot springs of Winterfell, very clever.

I think that If there was a story about when the seasons were normal that would be easier for us readers to try and figure out what changed them to the strange years long cycle they are now, and when it happened. So that part is left vague possibly.

The years that things happened is deliberately messed up it seems, so it is harder for us to figure out exactly what happened when. 

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5 hours ago, Ckram said:

Yeah, I agree.

Still, there must be a report. If not in Westeros, at least in cities old enough to have witnessed the change, like Qarth, Asshai or Old Ghis.

If we go by what I theorise above and it's because of a global climate shift due to one of the hammers of the water performed by the children then maybe their sadness Bran feels in the cave is part to do with their involvement in how the world has gone pear shaped. 

GRRM may be saving it for WoW for Leaf to teach Bran some major history lessons on how they caused the imbalance of the world which effectively brought the Others south. 

Or Bran when he becomes so powerful he sees further than the trees may be able to acquire the knowledge himself somehow? 

 

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10 hours ago, Ckram said:

Yeah, I agree.

Still, there must be a report. If not in Westeros, at least in cities old enough to have witnessed the change, like Qarth, Asshai or Old Ghis.

This was all I could find on talk of seasons being regular patterns for what it's worth Ckram. 

"Though the Citadel has long sought to learn the manner by which it may predict the length and change of seasons, all efforts have been confounded. Septon Barth appeared to argue, in a fragmentary treatise, that the inconstancy of the seasons was a matter of magical art rather than trustworthy knowledge. Maester Nicol's The Measure of the Days—otherwise a laudable work containing much of use—seems influenced by this argument. Based upon his work on the movement of stars in the firmament, Nicol argues unconvincingly that the seasons might once have been of a regular length, determined solely by the way in which the globe faces the sun in its heavenly course. The notion behind it seems true enough—that the lengthening and shortening of days, if more regular, would have led to more regular seasons—but he could find no evidence that such was ever the case, beyond the most ancient of tales."

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My turn to be skeptical: this inference is exactly the kind of answer that is expected from the Citadel - "reality is operating in contradiction with scientific evidences, but we don't know why".

Even so, knowing that maesters didn't found any evidences, "beyond the most ancient of tales", and that the Citadel was founded in the Age of Heroes, we can provisionally exclude the possibility of existing in Westeros reports about a time when the seasons were regular.

 

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2 hours ago, Ckram said:

My turn to be skeptical: this inference is exactly the kind of answer that is expected from the Citadel - "reality is operating in contradiction with scientific evidences, but we don't know why".

Even so, knowing that maesters didn't found any evidences, "beyond the most ancient of tales", and that the Citadel was founded in the Age of Heroes, we can provisionally exclude the possibility of existing in Westeros reports about a time when the seasons were regular.

 

GRRM has said we will find out in the books why the seasons are the way they are and it is a magical fantasy explanation and not a scientific explanation so I'm still quite sure they were indeed regular at one point but some magical event changed the planet in some way. 

It is basically left to wait and see and the post I have made is pretty much to show that the Hammer of the waters is most certainly a magical event, which may have in effect caused the seasons to change thousands of years ago. Well technically the post is about a lot more than that lol but I touch on that. 

I can genuinely see Leaf explaining the CoTf's part in it to Bran(if it was their fault) and expressing sadness at it. 

Mind you I'm certainly open to it being something else entirely that caused it but the breaking of the arm and the swamping of the neck could easily qualify as the magical fantasy cause GRRM has warned us to expect.

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