S John Posted July 28, 2016 Share Posted July 28, 2016 10 minutes ago, Altherion said: That said, I don't think all of the gloom and doom is bullshit. They are undoubtedly overstating the case and placing far too much of the blame on Obama, but there are serious, structural issues with the US economy which go back decades and are getting worse and worse in terms of the number of people affected. Neither the Republicans nor the Democrats have made any attempts at solving these. Instead, between the two of them, they've implemented a variant of the divide-and-conquer strategy (mostly along racial lines). This worked for a while, but the number of the discontented is now large enough that it is breaking down. Doom and gloom wouldn't sell nearly as well in a happy and prosperous nation. Fair enough, I was on the Bernie train. I see the issues I just don't lay them solely at the feet of Obama as the Republicans are wont to do. I am not thrilled about Hillary Clinton. But I really, really, really just cannot see Donald Trump as the man to address these structural issues. Like, really.... seriously. I get the discontent, but that Trump is the solution is where the entire thing goes off a cliff and bursts into flames. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrackerNeil Posted July 28, 2016 Share Posted July 28, 2016 1 hour ago, Ormond said: This seems rather naive. It happened while Obama was President so he will get blamed regardless, and that will of course not help Clinton, who is, as even most Democrats say, largely running to continue Obama's administration. Plus Trump won't care even if a Republican president appointed the judge -- it will be used as an example of how the "elite establishment" makes decisions dangerous to the safety of average Americans. By the time November rolls around this may be forgotten by most. But it may well motivate a few Reagan-loving Republicans who otherwise might sit the election out to get to the polls and vote for Trump. It seems to me that the events that strongly resonate best with voters are 1) fairly simple; and 2) relevant. Hinckley's release meets the first criterion, I grant, but I think it fails on the second. Hinckley's crime was committed so long ago that anyone under 40 doesn't even remember it, as they were pre-schoolers at the time. Maybe it's naive to think that a significant percentage of persuadable voters won't cast ballots based on the release (after a 35-year sentence) of an unsuccessful assassin whose release can be in no way tied to Hillary Clinton and was supported by Reagan's own son. If so, I'll bet on that naivete, thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sologdin Posted July 28, 2016 Share Posted July 28, 2016 3 hours ago, the Greenleif Stark said: #RockTheNoVote.........whole country should just not vote that's one of the lesser saramago novels. meh. 1 hour ago, DanteGabriel said: I have a pretty large and colorful vocabulary, but I don't think I could ever properly express my loathing for that fraudulent, dog-whistle racist chickenhawk. He did unimaginable damage to millions. the low intensity conflicts that he oversaw in afghanistan, angola, mozambique, cambodia, nicaragua, inter alia resulted in many millions slain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
White Walker Texas Ranger Posted July 28, 2016 Share Posted July 28, 2016 15 minutes ago, S John said: Fair enough, I was on the Bernie train. I see the issues I just don't lay them solely at the feet of Obama as the Republicans are wont to do. I am not thrilled about Hillary Clinton. But I really, really, really just cannot see Donald Trump as the man to address these structural issues. Like, really.... seriously. I get the discontent, but that Trump is the solution is where the entire thing goes off a cliff and bursts into flames. With Hillary Clinton, I see it like, worse case scenario, you vote her out in four years. With Trump, I'm only about 99% sure there's still going to be a country to vote him out in 4 years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Altherion Posted July 28, 2016 Share Posted July 28, 2016 25 minutes ago, S John said: Fair enough, I was on the Bernie train. I see the issues I just don't lay them solely at the feet of Obama as the Republicans are wont to do. I am not thrilled about Hillary Clinton. But I really, really, really just cannot see Donald Trump as the man to address these structural issues. Like, really.... seriously. I get the discontent, but that Trump is the solution is where the entire thing goes off a cliff and bursts into flames. Yeah, Trump will occasionally mention one of the problems, but the solutions he has publicly advocated are not plausible. It's really difficult to predict whose Presidency will be the best in the long run. Whoever it is will almost certainly have a recession on their hands at some point (we haven't had one for a while) and, given the general lack of financial reserves, its effects are reasonably likely to be severe so people will be even angrier than they currently are. There are multiple possible scenarios with both candidates and I have no idea which one will be true or even which would be better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Chatywin et al. Posted July 28, 2016 Share Posted July 28, 2016 8 minutes ago, Altherion said: Yeah, Trump will occasionally mention one of the problems, but the solutions he has publicly advocated are not plausible. It's really difficult to predict whose Presidency will be the best in the long run. Whoever it is will almost certainly have a recession on their hands at some point (we haven't had one for a while) and, given the general lack of financial reserves, its effects are reasonably likely to be severe so people will be even angrier than they currently are. There are multiple possible scenarios with both candidates and I have no idea which one will be true or even which would be better. What? It's not really difficult to predict at all. Clinton may or may not be a good president, but Trump is almost guaranteed to be an utter disaster. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrackerNeil Posted July 28, 2016 Share Posted July 28, 2016 14 minutes ago, Altherion said: Yeah, Trump will occasionally mention one of the problems, but the solutions he has publicly advocated are not plausible. It's really difficult to predict whose Presidency will be the best in the long run. Whoever it is will almost certainly have a recession on their hands at some point (we haven't had one for a while) and, given the general lack of financial reserves, its effects are reasonably likely to be severe so people will be even angrier than they currently are. There are multiple possible scenarios with both candidates and I have no idea which one will be true or even which would be better. This is nuts. I think it's safe to say that an unstable, dishonest, egomaniacal bigot with no political experience is going to be a worse president than someone who is not. I'm just crazy that way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A Horse Named Stranger Posted July 28, 2016 Share Posted July 28, 2016 22 minutes ago, Tywin et al. said: What? It's not really difficult to predict at all. Clinton may or may not be a good president, but Trump is almost guaranteed to be an utter disaster. So it's a wash? On a more topical/serious note, damn that Bloomberg take down of Trump is great to watch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Chatywin et al. Posted July 28, 2016 Share Posted July 28, 2016 3 minutes ago, Notone said: So it's a wash? Idk how you can take what I said and imply that I'm saying it's a wash. Clinton might be a good president, a bad president, or something in between. Contrast that with Trump, whose almost assuredly going to be an absolutely terrible president. 11 minutes ago, Notone said: On a more topical/serious note, damn that Bloomberg take down of Trump is great to watch. Yep, I'm feeling pretty smug for calling that one. And most of his attacks will make for perfect soundbites in a number of attack ads. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A Horse Named Stranger Posted July 28, 2016 Share Posted July 28, 2016 Just now, Tywin et al. said: Idk how you can take what I said and imply that I'm saying it's a wash. Clinton might be a good president, a bad president, or something in between. Contrast that with Trump, whose almost assuredly going to be an absolutely terrible president. It was an (apparently ill) attempt of humour on my part. It was intended along the lines of, so you say there's a chance that Trump could make a good president (almost assuredly a disaster). I sometimes (well quite often frankly) can't resist making that sort of tongue in cheek remarks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalbear Posted July 28, 2016 Share Posted July 28, 2016 The best case scenario for Trump is that he abdicates prior to January and makes Pence the president, in which case you merely have a horrible but vaguely competent person in office who repeals much of the rights that have been fought for for the last 20 years and nominates massively antichoice justices. The second best case scenario for Trump is that he does basically nothing at all, and the country just kind of sits around with its thumb up its ass. That's his ceiling. That's the hope that @Altherionkeeps holding out for - that Trump simply won't do much damage. Well, sorta kinda. What Altherion apparently wants is to immantenize the eschaton. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jace, Extat Posted July 28, 2016 Share Posted July 28, 2016 3 hours ago, Kalbear said: Reagan was fucking evil. Fuck him. Fuck that senile piece of shit. I hope his last years were a waking nightmare. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DireWolfSpirit Posted July 28, 2016 Share Posted July 28, 2016 This is a bit under the radar because I havent heard it discussed a lot but I think Chelsea is going to deliver a awesome speech. Chelsea may even leave a few people wishing she had ran for the nom this year.(she's 36 and by all accounts has inherited her parents smarts). Its going to be fun hearing from her and I expect her to be second only to the Obama's in pecking order of speeches I enjoy from the convention this year. Kaine is a big dissapointment, I dont like the thought of him a heartbeat away. The R's are so stupid they barely recognize this is the most moderate ticket they could have possibly hoped for. With an extremist like Trump as the opposition, the R's are lucky we didnt come up with candidates like a (hard left) Kucinich or Nader this cycle. Sanders showed theres a lot of sentiment we should have went for more to the left, but that boats left port and we have a very moderate couple of candidates in a year when liberals may have been able to win it. Count your blessings whiny R's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swordfish Posted July 28, 2016 Share Posted July 28, 2016 20 hours ago, Mudguard said: friggin quote feature. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swordfish Posted July 28, 2016 Share Posted July 28, 2016 17 hours ago, Altherion said: I cannot conclusively prove to you that he is joking, but the entire premise is a reformulation of a fairly old joke that already had several incarnations: hey, NSA/Snowden/etc., I forgot my password (or dropped my laptop or formatted my hard drive or whatever) -- can you please tell me what it was (or provide me with a copy of my files)? All Trump did was reformulate it as "Hey Russia, our former Secretary of State deleted some emails -- can you please share your copy of them with us?" I personally thought it was pretty funny. As to foreign espionage and election tampering being serious issues, I agree with you, but rather than getting upset with somebody who makes a joke about them (which is relatively harmless), I think it would be much more productive not to nominate somebody who made foreign espionage much easier to an even higher position and thus potentially make election tampering by a foreign power a viable proposition. Ah well, that ship has sailed. Agreed. Especially if you have to spin 'hey, if you have them, i bet the FBI would love to see them' into 'ZOMG!!! TRUMP IS TELLING THE RUSSIANS TO HACK OUR EMAILZZZZ!!!!' in order to bolster your outrage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manhole Eunuchsbane Posted July 28, 2016 Share Posted July 28, 2016 2 minutes ago, Swordfish said: Agreed. Especially if you have to spin 'hey, if you have them, i bet the FBI would love to see them' into 'ZOMG!!! TRUMP IS TELLING THE RUSSIANS TO HACK OUR EMAILZZZZ!!!!' in order to bolster your outrage. Cool. Then I'm sure you'll be equally amused by the question Stephen Colbert has for the Donald. http://www.rawstory.com/2016/07/stephen-colbert-has-one-question-for-donald-trump-what-does-vladimir-putins-dck-taste-like/?utm_source=fark&utm_medium=referral&utm_campaign=im&utm_tracker=1737131x84899 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swordfish Posted July 28, 2016 Share Posted July 28, 2016 14 hours ago, The Anti-Targ said: Clinton will win or lose on her own merits, or lack thereof. But Bernie supporters are fools if they think Trump winning or Hillary winning amounts to much the same thing so it doesn't matter if they don't vote or they cast a protest vote. You won't get the president you want, but you'll get the president you deserve. Sadly, I'm afraid this is true no matter who wins this time around. 3 hours ago, DireWolfSpirit said: Nonsense, a lot of people would wait in long lines to piss on his grave. He had his brown nosers, yet he remains extremely unpopular with some in organized labor and has always been unpopular with the African American constituencies. This is dated, but it reflects urban sentiment about the man during his regimes rein- Guys, we don't need to speculate about this. Reagan was, and remains, quite popular among a lot of Americans, Quote Favorable Ratings of Reagan Both in and out of office, Reagan was always well-liked by the American public -- based on ratings measuring the public's personal opinion rather than its assessment of his job performance. Between 1984 and 1988, Gallup consistently found more than 6 in 10 Americans holding a favorable view of Reagan, including a substantial 81% in October 1986. Even during the 1982 recession, when only about 4 in 10 Americans approved of the job Reagan was doing as president, 6 in 10 Americans rated him on the positive end of a 10-point rating scale. In Gallup's most recent measure of favorability about Reagan, taken in January 2001, 74% of Americans had a favorable opinion of him, and only 23% were unfavorable. Quote A 1999 poll asked Americans how five recent presidents (Nixon, Carter, Reagan, Bush, and Clinton) would go down in history. Reagan was rated most positively, with 12% of Americans saying Reagan would be judged in history as an "outstanding president," and with an additional 42% saying "above average." Reagan typically scored well on this measure in the eight times it has been asked about him. http://www.gallup.com/poll/11887/ronald-reagan-from-peoples-perspective-gallup-poll-review.aspx 2 hours ago, White Walker Texas Ranger said: With Hillary Clinton, I see it like, worse case scenario, you vote her out in four years. With Trump, I'm only about 99% sure there's still going to be a country to vote him out in 4 years. And the left accuses the right of fear mongering....... Oh sweet irony..... 4 minutes ago, Manhole Eunuchsbane said: Cool. Then I'm sure you'll be equally amused by the question Stephen Colbert has for the Donald. http://www.rawstory.com/2016/07/stephen-colbert-has-one-question-for-donald-trump-what-does-vladimir-putins-dck-taste-like/?utm_source=fark&utm_medium=referral&utm_campaign=im&utm_tracker=1737131x84899 Why would I be amused by that? i love a good take down as much as the next guy, but that just not a very good joke. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NestorMakhnosLovechild Posted July 28, 2016 Share Posted July 28, 2016 11 minutes ago, Manhole Eunuchsbane said: Cool. Then I'm sure you'll be equally amused by the question Stephen Colbert has for the Donald. http://www.rawstory.com/2016/07/stephen-colbert-has-one-question-for-donald-trump-what-does-vladimir-putins-dck-taste-like/?utm_source=fark&utm_medium=referral&utm_campaign=im&utm_tracker=1737131x84899 "Jokes" like this, which are predicated on heterosexism and outmoded views of dominance and submission in normal sexual acts, are really unfortunate. I'm disappointed that Colbert thinks this kind of stuff is funny. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
White Walker Texas Ranger Posted July 28, 2016 Share Posted July 28, 2016 10 minutes ago, Swordfish said: And the left accuses the right of fear mongering....... Oh sweet irony..... It's a small chance... but non-negligible I think. Look at Trump's track record of needlessly escalating minor issues and his complete lack of respect for the post WWII international order and democratic norms. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swordfish Posted July 28, 2016 Share Posted July 28, 2016 1 minute ago, White Walker Texas Ranger said: It's a small chance... but non-negligible I think. Look at Trump's track record of needlessly escalating minor issues and his complete lack of respect for the post WWII international order and democratic norms. There is a statistically insignificant chance that in four years this country will not exist due to something Trump does in office. that's pure fear mongering and hyperbole. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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