Would the Dragons Attack Dany?

[Dex drako]

On 7/30/2016 at 0:47 PM, Jon's Queen Consort said:

Why Jon has to fight for the Targ throne when there are already two Targs who want to fight for it?

it won't have anything to do with Jon fighting for the throne its about Jon protecting the people of westeros.

people have this strange idea that the people are just going to love dany when she gets to westeros. that worked in essos  because she was freeing slaves but there are no slaves to free in westeros and so the people are not going to love her. without the starwmen slave masters to make Dany's actions look good the people of westeros going see her as evil.  (good play on the "its hard to be a good guy" idea)

jon in't won't let dany burn her way across westeros anymore then he would let the ww freeze it.

the point is the second DWD doesn't have to be about the throne itself but about who's way of leading is right.  Does Dany's "blood and fire" 
 or Jons underlining view unity and understanding win. that's a far more interesting fight then if a pertender or real targ wins the throne.

On 7/30/2016 at 1:10 PM, Lost Melnibonean said:

Why spend all that time on Eddard? Stannis? Robb? Daenerys? She's going to die too. 

 Dany dies it won't be until the end of the story shes too important and as for the others you're point.

none of those characters got dragons.

I sure (f)aegon will still have chaptes just like all these other characters did but doesn't mean his character merits having a nuke dragon. the dragons have a importance onto themselves in the story and only a character of equal importance will ever ride one. (F)aegon just does measure up

 

23 hours ago, CaliWolf said:

Why is it necessary for Dany to live past the Dance of Dragons? Euron could legit win. the Lannisters could keep power, or Stannis could win after Dany and Aegon fight eachother, etc.

 I really don't think that the Dragons are going to help out in the war for the dawn tbh. They don't even like rain, let alone snow. Jon's whole POV will continue to be about defeating the Others, which is the only reason it's important he be Targ (the prince that was promised being in that blood line). Dany, Aegon, Euron, Lannisters, whole POV will continue to be about the Iron Throne. And I think in the end the North will stay separated and have its own King. 

this veiw make no sense to me

the WW are a stand in for something big like climate change, their whole point is only together can westeros stop them. Jon can't stop them alone and even if he could everyone else isn't going to leave them  along to do so. either way you look at it Jon's going to have to get involved in the bigger world.

and just from a storytelling pov how boring woud it be for Jon to stay myopic about the rest of the world like that

[RoamingRonin]

On 7/30/2016 at 11:36 AM, Jon's Queen Consort said:

True but I believe that an actual dragon would make more sense fot a Dance. After all I don't believe all the dragons will survive to fight at LN 2.0 so some of them have to die before.

I think the Dance will be more than just Dany vs. Aegon. Remember in the first civil war, there were those two wild card pretenders that betrayed Rhaenyra. They were dragonseeds that had mounts. It seems much more likely Dany will lose a dragon to Victarion or Euron so she'll have to deal with one of them. Aegon will hold the throne and have the support of the majority in Westeros which will provide Dany with a challenge a lot more complicated than just dragon + large army.

I wouldn't be surprised if Drogon is the only dragon left alive at the end of the Dance. I'm hoping that's the case. I know you have a different opinion but I'm hoping for at least one battle with a dragonrider fighting the Others and some wights.

[delspark]

3 hours ago, Dex drako said:

the point is the second DWD doesn't have to be about the throne itself but about who's way of leading is right.  Does Dany's "blood and fire" 
 or Jons underlining view unity and understanding win. that's a far more interesting fight then if a pertender or real targ wins the throne.

and just from a storytelling pov how boring woud it be for Jon to stay myopic about the rest of the world like that

You really think Jon is going to invest time in fighting the said leaders just because their way of ruling is not right? If so shouldn't he already have killed the Cersie/Jamie and other Lannisters for wrecking Westeros? He is not near-sighted about the world. He knows the bigger threat is WW that's why he refuses to be Lord of WF and take part in the war for IT.

 

[Jon's Queen Consort]

6 hours ago, Dex drako said:

it won't have anything to do with Jon fighting for the throne its about Jon protecting the people of westeros.

Then it will not be a Dance. 

6 hours ago, Dex drako said:

people have this strange idea that the people are just going to love dany when she gets to westeros.

I don't believe that Dany will be loved in Westeros.

6 hours ago, Dex drako said:

jon in't won't let dany burn her way across westeros anymore then he would let the ww freeze it.

the point is the second DWD doesn't have to be about the throne itself but about who's way of leading is right.  Does Dany's "blood and fire" 
 or Jons underlining view unity and understanding win. that's a far more interesting fight then if a pertender or real targ wins the throne.

I can see that happening but this will not be the Dance.

[CaliWolf]

17 hours ago, Dex drako said:

the WW are a stand in for something big like climate change, their whole point is only together can westeros stop them. Jon can't stop them alone and even if he could everyone else isn't going to leave them  along to do so. either way you look at it Jon's going to have to get involved in the bigger world.

and just from a storytelling pov how boring woud it be for Jon to stay myopic about the rest of the world like that

Jon alone can't stop them, sure. But that doesn't mean anyone From the Reach and South will necessarily help him. Thus far all we have seen is everyone pretty much ignore anything happening at the wall. Also, I'm not totally sure, but I don't think the first battle for the dawn mentions Dragons helping. It has everything to do with the North and the Nights Watch riding out to meet the others and drive them back. So, it's been done without Dragons before, and in all likelihood will be done without them again.

And if the WW are a stand in for something big, like climate change as you say, well, there are a lot of people that still don't believe climate change is a real thing (ridiculous) and those that don't think we should do anything to try to stop it. So using your metaphor, there will be a lot of people, even important characters, that show no interest in helping out.

[Little Scribe of Naath]

I think it's quite possible that the DotD and the Other's attack from the North begins simultaneously. It would make a nice Ice/fire parallel that as the North is desperately trying to fight off the ice zombies, while the South, ignorant of the threat, is being ravaged by fire in the Dance of Dragons.

As to the OP, yes, I think the dragons may attack Dany but I'm not sure. The fact that there is a second Dance of Dragons necessitates that atleast two of the dragons face off against each other - so if they can do that, being 'brothers', I would think they could attack their 'mother' too.

It's an interesting question to ponder on, for sure

[Dex drako]

20 hours ago, RoamingRonin said:

I think the Dance will be more than just Dany vs. Aegon. Remember in the first civil war, there were those two wild card pretenders that betrayed Rhaenyra. They were dragonseeds that had mounts. It seems much more likely Dany will lose a dragon to Victarion or Euron so she'll have to deal with one of them. Aegon will hold the throne and have the support of the majority in Westeros which will provide Dany with a challenge a lot more complicated than just dragon + large army.

I wouldn't be surprised if Drogon is the only dragon left alive at the end of the Dance. I'm hoping that's the case. I know you have a different opinion but I'm hoping for at least one battle with a dragonrider fighting the Others and some wights.

you give (f)aegon so much more credit then I do.

I don't see him lasting very long and never see him taking the throne as Cersei will blowing all of KL to slag then give it up. but I also don't see any dragons living at the end of the story.

16 hours ago, delspark said:

You really think Jon is going to invest time in fighting the said leaders just because their way of ruling is not right? If so shouldn't he already have killed the Cersie/Jamie and other Lannisters for wrecking Westeros? He is not near-sighted about the world. He knows the bigger threat is WW that's why he refuses to be Lord of WF and take part in the war for IT.

 

Jon hasn't been involved in other fights because of his oath to the night watch but once be comes back to life that's over. now is the first time he will be allowed to intervene like this. and he truly becomes KITN like it seems he will that gives him even more reason.

2 hours ago, CaliWolf said:

Jon alone can't stop them, sure. But that doesn't mean anyone From the Reach and South will necessarily help him. Thus far all we have seen is everyone pretty much ignore anything happening at the wall. Also, I'm not totally sure, but I don't think the first battle for the dawn mentions Dragons helping. It has everything to do with the North and the Nights Watch riding out to meet the others and drive them back. So, it's been done without Dragons before, and in all likelihood will be done without them again.

And if the WW are a stand in for something big, like climate change as you say, well, there are a lot of people that still don't believe climate change is a real thing (ridiculous) and those that don't think we should do anything to try to stop it. So using your metaphor, there will be a lot of people, even important characters, that show no interest in helping out.

this is Jon's whole point as a characters in my view, by hook or by crook he's the one to bring everyone into he fight.

[BRANDON GREYSTARK]

None  of her dragons will attack her .

[RoamingRonin]

4 hours ago, Dex drako said:

you give (f)aegon so much more credit then I do.

I don't see him lasting very long and never see him taking the throne as Cersei will blowing all of KL to slag then give it up. but I also don't see any dragons living at the end of the story.

I think Cersei is one of the major reasons why he will claim the Iron Throne with Arianne as his queen. Cersei will war with the Tyrells and the Faith. Once she's done with them, her forces will be weak enough for Aegon's forces to wipe her out without much resistance. His reign won't last as long as the Lannister/Baratheon/Tyrell reign (we don't have enough books for that) but he will claim the throne.

 

[delspark]

7 hours ago, Dex drako said:

 

Jon hasn't been involved in other fights because of his oath to the night watch but once be comes back to life that's over. now is the first time he will be allowed to intervene like this. and he truly becomes KITN like it seems he will that gives him even more reason.

 

After getting resurrected, he is not going to foolishly war with people. He needs the support of the whole Westeros to wipe out the Others. 

Quote

Kill the boy and let the man be born.

 

[Dex drako]

18 hours ago, delspark said:

After getting resurrected, he is not going to foolishly war with people. He needs the support of the whole Westeros to wipe out the Others. 

 

I'm confused since when has it been foolish to protect you're country men from invading armies? more so when those same people you are going to need later to fight someone else?

but honestly how else is jon going to get the support of all of westeros as he sure isn't going to talk them into it and he has no daughters to sell off. stopping and invading army makes him a hero to those he save and wins him their support. even beating a army honorably can win you that armies support later. and if Jon takes control of dragon and uses it to fight he can prove he is a true targ heir and wining him even more support (more when (f)aegon gets shown for the lie he is).

I really don't get why everyone acts like Jon has to be passive and wait for people to come to him. when a active stance of engaging a people even fighting people is so much better for the story.

21 hours ago, RoamingRonin said:

I think Cersei is one of the major reasons why he will claim the Iron Throne with Arianne as his queen. Cersei will war with the Tyrells and the Faith. Once she's done with them, her forces will be weak enough for Aegon's forces to wipe her out without much resistance. His reign won't last as long as the Lannister/Baratheon/Tyrell reign (we don't have enough books for that) but he will claim the throne.

 

I just don't see it happening, Cersei won't go down without burning all of kings landing and all the people in it to the ground. (f)Aegon will never sit on the throne for any amount of time. his back story will have to fall apart quickly and so to will any support he has. I honestly feel bad for him his not a bad person maybe even a good leader but but its all a lie and I don't think it will hurt any one nearly as much as it will hurt him.

I would like him to live a give his support to the true child of rhaegar but this is GRRM we're talking about.

[El Guapo]

1 hour ago, Dex drako said:

I'm confused since when has it been foolish to protect you're country men from invading armies? more so when those same people you are going to need later to fight someone else?

but honestly how else is jon going to get the support of all of westeros as he sure isn't going to talk them into it and he has no daughters to sell off. stopping and invading army makes him a hero to those he save and wins him their support. even beating a army honorably can win you that armies support later. and if Jon takes control of dragon and uses it to fight he can prove he is a true targ heir and wining him even more support (more when (f)aegon gets shown for the lie he is).

I really don't get why everyone acts like Jon has to be passive and wait for people to come to him. when a active stance of engaging a people even fighting people is so much better for the story.

I just don't see it happening, Cersei won't go down without burning all of kings landing and all the people in it to the ground. (f)Aegon will never sit on the throne for any amount of time. his back story will have to fall apart quickly and so to will any support he has. I honestly feel bad for him his not a bad person maybe even a good leader but but its all a lie and I don't think it will hurt any one nearly as much as it will hurt him.

I would like him to live a give his support to the true child of rhaegar but this is GRRM we're talking about.

You are making a big big assumption that he is in fact going to get the support of all of Westeros. I don't see this happening at all.

[Cron]

On 7/28/2016 at 1:46 PM, Maxxine said:

I somewhat posed this question on another thread but it wasn't answered so hopefully this can start some discussion. So assuming that it's true that all three dragons will get riders and Dany will ride Drogon, will the other dragons still attack her if one of the other riders ordered it to. I ask because Dany presents a unique scenario that hasn't presented in any other cases we know of. From what we know when the Targs had dragons they would have eggs placed in the crib with them and if/when the egg hatched the Targ would presumably be bonded with that dragon.Or if there was no egg or the egg didn't hatch they could still bond with a dragon whose rider had already died. 

In Dany's case she hatched all three dragons so it's possible all three have some sort of bond with her. She has obviously bonded with Drogon the most and will ride him, but all three seem to have bonded with her. She is training all three of them in Clash and when she takes Quentyn to see them in Dance Rhaegal and Viserion seemingly recognize her as their "mother" and are waiting for her direction. 

It is very well possible that as soon as Viserion and Rhaegal would just forget about any allegiance to Dany once they get riders but I would think there would be bit more nuance than that.

I think the answer to your question is definitely...maybe.

Don't know if this has been mentioned above, but it has been said the dragons are VERY intelligent, quite possibly (likely?) more intelligent than humans (I believe this information came from Tyrion who is THE expert on dragons, in some ways he knows more about them than Dany)

The dragons are NOT mere warhorses obeying commands from their riders.  They may be smarter than their riders.

Thus, I think the answer to your question depends on what the circumstances are.  Under the right circumstances, I believe a dragon could attack Dany, just like under the right circumances virtually any human character in ASOIAF might turn on and attack any other character.

[Gaz0680]

On 30 July 2016 at 1:39 AM, Maxxine said:

Even the person who hatched it? Not saying you're wrong, but I just think there has to be some nuance there because this as far as we know this is an unprecedented circumstance. I mean what is the bond with the person who hatched the egg? Is that irrelevant? Historically, the person hatches the egg and rides that dragon or the person who hatched dies and the dragon is free to get another rider. We don't have precedent for someone hatching an egg and another person riding that dragon while the hatcher is still alive.

We don't know what value kinship has to dragons in GRRM's fantasy world.

In some fantasies, like Raymond E Feists popular Riftwar series, blood ties were meaningless both to the Valheru and to the dragons.

If Dany's Dragons hold similar disregard for things like family or the person who raised them, then hell yes they could attack her. We don't know how invested the other dragons are in Dany.

Drogon is different because Dany is his rider and they have formed a strong bond. He wouldn't willingly attack her unless there was no other option (eg he was starving and no other food around). The other two dragons however, it might not take much at all for them to attack Dany.

[khal drogon]

It's still doubtful. First do we know for sure what kind of bond is between a dragon rider and a dragon. If it is magical then there is a chance that they would attack her if their master command them to.