Acting MVP on the show ?

[I Wun-Wun]

Alfie Allen. I hope they give him a great redemption speech. I also think Kit gets too much flack. He's done well as Jon Snow and will go down as one of the most famous TV actors of all time.

[Cron]

On 8/12/2016 at 10:47 AM, Darksky said:

Kerry Ingram's role in The Dance of Dragons was screaming at the top of her lungs while being burned alive. It's not like Kit and Emilia have ever had to act out a scene like that.

Jon is actually harder to play than, say, Tyrion or Ramsay. 

i agree with you about Jon being harder to play, and I'm assuming you mean b/c there's just not as much meat for Kit to sink his teeth into as someone like Tyrion gets, or Bronn, or even Theon, Ramsay, or a number of others. (Indeed, characters like Joffrey or Ramsay offer many opportunities to ham it up, VERY much like the Joker, Batman's archenemy.  In my opinion, it's no coincidence that both Jack Nicholson and Heath Ledger won tremendous acclaim for their portrayals of the Joker, cuz that character offers a LOT of opportunities to show range and depth)

Jon Snow is a VERY serious, sullen, often brooding person (in fact, I was rewatching a Season 6 episode recently when Brienne actually says to Sansa that Jon broods a lot, or something like that, and it made me laugh out loud. Yep, that's Jon.  Very serious, tends to be quiet, this guy is NOT the life ot the party, but he IS a guy you want next to you if you're going into battle, no question)

Lots of times actors get a lot of credit when they have great material to work with for their character, and other actors don't shine as much just cuz the personality of the character they play does not give them a lot of opportunities to show range, or even depth.

Personally, I'm very comfortable with Kit Harrington's portrayal of Jon.  That's who the character is, and I like that character a lot.

[Cron]

44 minutes ago, I Wun-Wun said:

Alfie Allen. I hope they give him a great redemption speech. I also think Kit gets too much flack. He's done well as Jon Snow and will go down as one of the most famous TV actors of all time.

I agree Kit Harrington has done well, see my post just above discussing him.

[Cron]

6 hours ago, Elisabetta Duò said:

I hope you're kidding. Jon is almost one-dimensional compared to Tyrion who is one of the most complex characters in the show and Ramsay, though one-dimensional, required acting skills to make him credible.

Please see my comment above replying to the same comment by Darksky.

I agree with you that Jon IS nearly one-dimensional, but that is exactly what makes him harder for an actor to play and stand out.  Jon is often serious, quiet and brooding, not much opportunity to show much range or depth there.

Regarding Ramsay, please see my comments above comparing him to the Joker.  Jack Nicholson and Heath Ledger both got great credit for the jobs they did playing the Joker, and rightly so, but the character offered numerous opportunities to ham it up, and I believe Ramsay is a character that is VERY similar to the Joker, while Jon has a personality MUCH more similar to Batman (so, who got the critical acclaim in the Batman movies, the guys who played Batman, or the guys who played the Joker? Answer: the guys who played the Joker, which is highly ironic, since they were "Batman" movies).

[Elisabetta Duò]

5 hours ago, Cron said:

Please see my comment above replying to the same comment by Darksky.

I agree with you that Jon IS nearly one-dimensional, but that is exactly what makes him harder for an actor to play and stand out.  Jon is often serious, quiet and brooding, not much opportunity to show much range or depth there.

Regarding Ramsay, please see my comments above comparing him to the Joker.  Jack Nicholson and Heath Ledger both got great credit for the jobs they did playing the Joker, and rightly so, but the character offered numerous opportunities to ham it up, and I believe Ramsay is a character that is VERY similar to the Joker, while Jon has a personality MUCH more similar to Batman (so, who got the critical acclaim in the Batman movies, the guys who played Batman, or the guys who played the Joker? Answer: the guys who played the Joker, which is highly ironic, since they were "Batman" movies).

I understand what you mean and to some degree I might even agree, but if Liam Cunningham were to play quiet Jon (wrong age, but follow me for a moment), he would stand out or at least be critically acclaimed: the thing to me is that to stand out with a character like Jon, you need to be able to play sublety and play it well, which is something only a very good actor is able to do. Liam Cunningham is a great actor, I knew him since I saw him in the Ken Loach movie and I've seen him in many movies.. he never overacts, he is able to play subtlety, he acts with his body and eyes too... all things Kit isn't truly able to do.

Just think of his scenes with his sister Sansa when they got to be reunited...they were certainly ok (a shy smile here, an awkward silence there), the situation in itself was kinda moving.. but with an actor able to act without speaking, those scenes would have been amazing...any look, any movement, would have had a depth those GoT scenes didn't have. There would be so many examples.. I remember when they found the puppies in AGOT, I truly felt bad for Jon and how he was treated and I felt sympathetic with him, with how he handled the whole thing...in the show, Kit's lines, face and eyes didn't convey 20% of it (I agree he's better now than he was in S1, but still average). 

Peter Dinklage was given awful lines almost all the season (what a waste) ...but still he managed to move people without even speaking when he was named Hand, because his face, hi eyes, his body language spoke to the viewer. 

If Alan Rickman were alive and played Jon, you can bet his eyes would express 305894218503 different feelings when Jon was just standing motionless, silent and broody ... but again, Alan Rickman was a fantastic actor. 

[Cron]

51 minutes ago, Elisabetta Duò said:

I understand what you mean and to some degree I might even agree, but if Liam Cunningham were to play quiet Jon (wrong age, but follow me for a moment), he would stand out or at least be critically acclaimed: the thing to me is that to stand out with a character like Jon, you need to be able to play sublety and play it well, which is something only a very good actor is able to do. Liam Cunningham is a great actor, I knew him since I saw him in the Ken Loach movie and I've seen him in many movies.. he never overacts, he is able to play subtlety, he acts with his body and eyes too... all things Kit isn't truly able to do.

Just think of his scenes with his sister Sansa when they got to be reunited...they were certainly ok (a shy smile here, an awkward silence there), the situation in itself was kinda moving.. but with an actor able to act without speaking, those scenes would have been amazing...any look, any movement, would have had a depth those GoT scenes didn't have. There would be so many examples.. I remember when they found the puppies in AGOT, I truly felt bad for Jon and how he was treated and I felt sympathetic with him, with how he handled the whole thing...in the show, Kit's lines, face and eyes didn't convey 20% of it (I agree he's better now than he was in S1, but still average). 

Peter Dinklage was given awful lines almost all the season (what a waste) ...but still he managed to move people without even speaking when he was named Hand, because his face, hi eyes, his body language spoke to the viewer. 

If Alan Rickman were alive and played Jon, you can bet his eyes would express 305894218503 different feelings when Jon was just standing motionless, silent and broody ... but again, Alan Rickman was a fantastic actor. 

Interesting post, I read it all, but I have to honestly say I"m still fine with Kit's performance.

Guess it's just a matter of personal preference.  I'm not saying Kit is better than Liam Cunningham (indeed, Liam delivered what I think is perhaps the single best scene performance of the entire series, when he confronted Melisandre about Shireen in Season 6 after he learned what Stannis and Melisandre had done), but I'm still fine with Kit's performance as Jon.

In order to judge Kit as an actor, I think I need to see more of his work.  The others you mention have much larger bodies of work.  Perhaps I should watch Kit's movie Pompeii, which I haven't done.

Great stuff to think about, though.

[Darksky]

@Cron

Better to watch 7 Days in Hell, Testament of Youth or his theatre play, Dr. Faustus if you want a glimpse of his potential.

@Elisabetta Duò

Kit may not be spectacular at delivering lines, but he actually shines with expressions/microexpressions and his eyes. Book Jon is described as having a poker face almost all the time. When they allow Kit to emote and show something more than a broody face, he does his job well. See Oathbreaker, BotB or The Winds of Winter for example.

[Cron]

25 minutes ago, Darksky said:

@Cron

Better to watch 7 Days in Hell, Testament of Youth or his theatre play, Dr. Faustus if you want a glimpse of his potential.

 

 

Thanks for the tip about some other work by Kit Harrington.  Haven't seen those things, but I'll try to watch out for them.

[Elisabetta Duò]

4 hours ago, Cron said:

Perhaps I should watch Kit's movie Pompeii, which I haven't done.

 

I'll be honest, I haven't watched it either

[Elisabetta Duò]

4 hours ago, Darksky said:

@Cron

Better to watch 7 Days in Hell, Testament of Youth or his theatre play, Dr. Faustus if you want a glimpse of his potential.

@Elisabetta Duò

Kit may not be spectacular at delivering lines, but he actually shines with expressions/microexpressions and his eyes. Book Jon is described as having a poker face almost all the time. When they allow Kit to emote and show something more than a broody face, he does his job well. See Oathbreaker, BotB or The Winds of Winter for example.

I disagree when it comes to GoT, but I have to say I haven't wached those other movies.

[Cron]

2 hours ago, Elisabetta Duò said:

I disagree when it comes to GoT, but I have to say I haven't wached those other movies.

Uh, I think maybe there's a little confusion.

I didn't mention those other shows with Kit Harrington, I've never seen them.

Darksky mentioned them, I believe.

[Elisabetta Duò]

21 hours ago, Cron said:

Uh, I think maybe there's a little confusion.

I didn't mention those other shows with Kit Harrington, I've never seen them.

Darksky mentioned them, I believe.

Oh sorry my wrong. Anyway I haven't watched them

[Cron]

9 hours ago, Elisabetta Duò said:

Oh sorry my wrong. Anyway I haven't watched them

No problem, of course.

[Elisabetta Duò]

Btw, whatever I think of his acting skills, I think Kit has got big chances of winning the Emmy.

[Gaz0680]

I also think he has a good chance of winning the Emmy (because of character he plays popularity and politics, which is how most awards are decided now).

Really though, Kit didnt even deserve to be nominated. HBO should never have even presented him as an option. GoT has way more proficient and deserving actors than Kit.

[mafro987daboss]

The only other time I've seen Kit act was in Pompeii, and he was similarly wooden in that. There's a difference between playing 'brooding' in a subtle way, and playing 'brooding' in a stereotypical way without having to convey emotion through face-acting or body language. Let's just face it, there are better actors who could have done more with Jon's character, and there are better actors in the show.

[Cron]

On 8/17/2016 at 2:45 PM, Elisabetta Duò said:

Btw, whatever I think of his acting skills, I think Kit has got big chances of winning the Emmy.

Really?

That's interesting, seriously.

If you don't think much of Kit's acting, why do you believe he has a good chance to win an Emmy?

Just cuz he's popular?

[Cron]

16 hours ago, mafro987daboss said:

The only other time I've seen Kit act was in Pompeii, and he was similarly wooden in that. There's a difference between playing 'brooding' in a subtle way, and playing 'brooding' in a stereotypical way without having to convey emotion through face-acting or body language. Let's just face it, there are better actors who could have done more with Jon's character, and there are better actors in the show.

Well, I've not seen Pompeii, so my opinion is of limited (if any) value, but maybe he's getting typecast, IF that character has a personality similar to Jon Snow, but I dunno.

I might have to try to check out some of the other shows Kit's been in, too.

Even if he is a one-dimensional, one note actor, though, I don't have a problem with it in Game of Thrones, cuz I believe the way Kit plays Jon is the way Jon IS.   He is a very serious, brooding guy.  Kit doesn't look much like I pictured Jon (cuz Kit doesn't look the way Jon is described in the books, period), but I believe the show captures his personality, and I think he's had some scenes to show more range (one that comes to mind is the scene in the show when he's already escaped from the wildlings, Ygritte catches up with him, they talk for a bit, then he gets on the horse and she shoots him with 3 arrows.  I thought Kit did a good job in that scene)

But compared to other "life of the party" characters in the show...no, I'm not surprised Kit Harrington and Jon Snow do not stand out.

[Elisabetta Duò]

On 19 agosto 2016 at 6:49 AM, Cron said:

Really?

That's interesting, seriously.

If you don't think much of Kit's acting, why do you believe he has a good chance to win an Emmy?

Just cuz he's popular?

Because of the plot ('resurrection' + battle of bastards) and because of 'politics'... HBO, with its Emmy summissions, basically pushed 6x09 the battle of bastards aka 'Jon's episode' over 6x10 (the only other whorty S6 candidate) nine times out of ten, which makes pretty clear where the network stands. Kit's submission as an Emmy canditate itself, even if he's certainly not the best actor on the show, means just that. Once they made 6x09 their choice, Kit necessarily became their candidate. Which goes well with the fact he resurrected in thesame season and there is often confusion between acting skills and character develpoment / plot (like: the chatacter had a strong season so the actor, if only average, gets the award). I guess D&D had planned this battle and how they wanted the episode to be since ages... and I guess being given the money to make it look objectively amazing, the top directing and the 'epic' feeling played a huge part in the choice of pushing 6x09 and therefore Kit. Helpfully, Peter Dinklage had less room and meaningful screen time in S6 than he has ever had in every other season (not out of lack of book material), he missed two consecutive episodes and was given few lines on many others (if one wanted to think badly, could think that they had planned for this season to be Jon's shining season since the start and cut off the competition because in a fair fight, Kit would never win over Peter).

Translated, they're pushing him, because of the reasons listed above, because his role ins season 7 and 8 will likely be huge so they used S6 as a preparation and because he's what's closer to the 'classical american hero' they have.. he's the young handsome hottie who was promised... the character became very popular, a fan fave... and the actor is loved as an hottie by many young girls and guys (which itself won average Clark noms more than once). Plus, it's convenient for HBO to show that there is more than one worthy male actor on the show (I think Kit will be nominated again in the future) .

The Emmys are quite sensible to 'politics' and to popularity (which at times goes hand in hand with quality, at times it doesn't... as Clark's noms prove).. and they truly bowed to GoT only after it became so huge they couldn't ignore it because of business/money reasons; it seems they already took into consideration Kit's popularity: in fact, out of the three names HBO submitted (Kit for 6x09, Peter for 6x10 and Nikolaj - I don't remember which episode now) they selected Kit and Peter, while NCW is certainly a better actor than Kit and as a whole he deserved it much more (he was never selected when he did a great job in at least 2 or 3 seasons, while Kit gets the nomination because he did better than usual in half a season). it's true NCW didn't have a big season, but it's common knowledge that the Emmys don't always give their awards away with strict reference to the current season; often they awards actors to recognize the performance as a whole, to repair to previous snubs, as 'parting gift' when it comes the last season of some big show, etc. (Peter won for S5 while he should have won for S4... Benedict Cumberbatch won for Sherlock 3x03 when he should have won for 2x03, etc. etc.) so it's pretty clear Kit was selected out of plot+popularity+politics.

Of course this doesn't mean they will necessarily follow this path to the end and award him.

Many Emmy predictions give Kit as a fave tho, like the most likely winner or the runner up: it's to be seen whether his popularity will be enough / HBO efforts will pay back or some underdog (from better call saul or something else) will steal the award from Kit's hands.

[Cron]

3 hours ago, Elisabetta Duò said:

Because of the plot ('resurrection' + battle of bastards) and because of 'politics'... HBO, with its Emmy summissions, basically pushed 6x09 the battle of bastards aka 'Jon's episode' over 6x10 (the only other whorty S6 candidate) nine times out of ten, which makes pretty clear where the network stands. Kit's submission as an Emmy canditate itself, even if he's certainly not the best actor on the show, means just that. Once they made 6x09 their choice, Kit necessarily became their candidate. Which goes well with the fact he resurrected in thesame season and there is often confusion between acting skills and character develpoment / plot (like: the chatacter had a strong season so the actor, if only average, gets the award). I guess D&D had planned this battle and how they wanted the episode to be since ages... and I guess being given the money to make it look objectively amazing, the top directing and the 'epic' feeling played a huge part in the choice of pushing 6x09 and therefore Kit. Helpfully, Peter Dinklage had less room and meaningful screen time in S6 than he has ever had in every other season (not out of lack of book material), he missed two consecutive episodes and was given few lines on many others (if one wanted to think badly, could think that they had planned for this season to be Jon's shining season since the start and cut off the competition because in a fair fight, Kit would never win over Peter).

Translated, they're pushing him, because of the reasons listed above, because his role ins season 7 and 8 will likely be huge so they used S6 as a preparation and because he's what's closer to the 'classical american hero' they have.. he's the young handsome hottie who was promised... the character became very popular, a fan fave... and the actor is loved as an hottie by many young girls and guys (which itself won average Clark noms more than once). Plus, it's convenient for HBO to show that there is more than one worthy male actor on the show (I think Kit will be nominated again in the future) .

The Emmys are quite sensible to 'politics' and to popularity (which at times goes hand in hand with quality, at times it doesn't... as Clark's noms prove).. and they truly bowed to GoT only after it became so huge they couldn't ignore it because of business/money reasons; it seems they already took into consideration Kit's popularity: in fact, out of the three names HBO submitted (Kit for 6x09, Peter for 6x10 and Nikolaj - I don't remember which episode now) they selected Kit and Peter, while NCW is certainly a better actor than Kit and as a whole he deserved it much more (he was never selected when he did a great job in at least 2 or 3 seasons, while Kit gets the nomination because he did better than usual in half a season). it's true NCW didn't have a big season, but it's common knowledge that the Emmys don't always give their awards away with strict reference to the current season; often they awards actors to recognize the performance as a whole, to repair to previous snubs, as 'parting gift' when it comes the last season of some big show, etc. (Peter won for S5 while he should have won for S4... Benedict Cumberbatch won for Sherlock 3x03 when he should have won for 2x03, etc. etc.) so it's pretty clear Kit was selected out of plot+popularity+politics.

Of course this doesn't mean they will necessarily follow this path to the end and award him.

Many Emmy predictions give Kit as a fave tho, like the most likely winner or the runner up: it's to be seen whether his popularity will be enough / HBO efforts will pay back or some underdog (from better call saul or something else) will steal the award from Kit's hands.

Very interesting, I read it all, you seem to be MUCH more knowledgeable about they Emmys than me, both historically and currently.  You said MANY things I didn't know.

My personal opinion is that Kit has been perfectly fine as Jon, I have no complaints, BUT...an Emmy?  Naw, i haven't seen anything from Kit as Jon Snow that made me think "Emmy," I believe you and I certainly agree on that.

If the Emmys are merely a popularity contest at times, then I would agree that's not right, but I just don't know enough about them to say..

By the way, I would think the Nikolai episode you're referring to has GOT to be 608, when he meets with Brienne, then he has that conversation with Edmure, and bluffs Edmure into agreeing to return to Riverrun and give it up to Jaime.   I'm a big Jaime fan, except for when he threw Bran out that window, naturally, and I felt that scene was one of Jaim'es top three moments in the entire series, along with his hot tub scene with Brienne when he tells her the truth about the Mad King,and when he rescues Brienne from the bear. 

Finally, I thought the Edmure actor did a great, great job in that scene with Jaime, too.