aSoIaF characters and their tWoIaF and prequels counterpart.

[Adam Targaryen]

12 hours ago, Jon's Queen Consort said:

You don't make sense. We don't know how 10 years old Daeron was and we don't know how adult Tommen will be. You cannot compare those two.

Yes I do make sense, it is very possible that young Daeron was a lot like Tommen and I most certainly think so. I have already presented you with evidence and since I don't feel like arguing about this any more I'll just add these two final things: 1. The political deal with Dorne (plus the way Daeron treated Daemon, which I didn't even think about when I wrote my last post) suggests that he was amiable and a bit "weak" ever since childhood. 2. Daeron and Tommen grew up in similar environments(unresponsible, absent fathers, loving mothers, a court of schemers etc.) and hence it makes sense for them to have developed similar personalities. However, you are clearly never going to change your mind, so let's just agree to disagree and be done with this.

12 hours ago, Jon's Queen Consort said:

Can you scream a little louder? I can barely listen to you.

Well, you seem to have a hard time hearing what I'm saying, insisting on being difficult, so I become frustrated, plus I'm trying to accentuate this because it's important.

12 hours ago, Jon's Queen Consort said:

And?

And you said it wasn't. You said "It wasn't me who mentioned", even though it was

12 hours ago, Jon's Queen Consort said:

Yet you seem to believe that dying and abandoning someone is the same.

.No, I'm being extremely clear with the fact that I deliberately chose the word "left" because it can mean both "died" and "abandoned". Please leave it at that, or I'll start being a pain in the neck as well, pestering you about minor spelling and grammatical errors on your part, something I've been trying hard not to do so far.

12 hours ago, Jon's Queen Consort said:

Your Tommen=Daeron wishful thinking is based only on gossips and circumstantial similarities and nothing more.

I will talk of this no further. We have different opinions and if you stop arguing about this now, I'll most likely leave this thread or try to play by your rules in the future, should I come up with a counterpart you would deem adequate. That sounds like a good deal, does it not?

[Jon's Queen Consort]

6 hours ago, Adam Targaryen said:

Yes I do make sense, it is very possible that young Daeron was a lot like Tommen and I most certainly think so. I have already presented you with evidence and since I don't feel like arguing about this any more I'll just add these two final things:

You cannot use words like very possible. If you are not sure then there is noting to compare.

6 hours ago, Adam Targaryen said:

Well, you seem to have a hard time hearing what I'm saying, insisting on being difficult, so I become frustrated, plus I'm trying to accentuate this because it's important.

I cannot hear you because you base everything on your wishful thinking and not in the books. You base your whole hypothesis on the gossip that Aemon was Daeron's father, the possibility that Daeron was like Tommen and so on. Hence you base everything in what you want to see and not on what is in the books.

6 hours ago, Adam Targaryen said:

.No, I'm being extremely clear with the fact that I deliberately chose the word "left" because it can mean both "died" and "abandoned". Please leave it at that, or I'll start being a pain in the neck as well, pestering you about minor spelling and grammatical errors on your part, something I've been trying hard not to do so far.

Do it. My english are not perfect but I cannot be perfect with all the languages I speak and I am very happy if there are only minor spelling and grammatical errors.

 

[Kal-L]

Robert Baratheon - Aegon the Unworthy

Jaime Lannister - Aemon the Dragon Knight

Tywin Lannister - Otto Hightower

Cercei Lannister - Alicent Hightower

Robb Stark - Daeron the Young Dragon

Tyrion Lannister = Lann the Clever

Stannis Baratheon - Maekar

[Jon's Queen Consort]

7 minutes ago, Kal-L said:

Jaime Lannister - Aemon the Dragon Knight

To quote myself;

On 9/8/2016 at 10:30 PM, Jon's Queen Consort said:

Jaime tried to kill a child, was ready to kill another one and killed his King. I can't recall Aemon doing something like that.

 

[Kal-L]

37 minutes ago, Jon's Queen Consort said:

To quote myself;

 

I'm not saying Jaime is the exact reincarnation of Aemon but they share many similarities that make them alike, both :

• joined the Kingsguard extremely young (Aemon was likely the youngest before Jaime got in)
• are the best swordsmen of their time
• are very handsome
• are brother to a queen that have an unhappy marriage with a particularly philanderous husband
• are in love with that sister and have affair with her (at least one, the other is only suspected).

Anyway that was just to explain myself but that's just my opinion and I don't particularly want to debate about it although there are definitely more similarities between Jaime and Aemon than there are between Robert and Baelor Breakspear.

[Jon's Queen Consort]

1 hour ago, Kal-L said:

Jaime is the exact reincarnation of Aemon

If they are completely different personalities how they are counterparts?

1 hour ago, Kal-L said:

Jaime and Aemon than there are between Robert and Baelor Breakspear.

Not true.

both fought in a Rebellion on the winning side against an uncle
didn't cared if someone was smallfolk or highborn
beloved by the smallfolk
both charismatic
great warrior
generous

and if we have to use circumstantial similarities, like appearance:
both had brothers who unintentionally helped in the death of one of their brothers, Maekar by fighting and end up killing Baelor and Stannis by having sex with Mel who used his seed to kill Renly.
younger brother was married but never consummated the wedding
both had sons who hadn't became the King after their father's death
younger brother was grumpy and not loved by smallfolk
had 2 brother who both became kings
at least one darkhaired trueborn son
black haired
firstborn

[Arya_Stupid!]

Wow, this seems like a real fun thread. Lol. 

'Please give me your examples, but if they don't follow my rules - go fuck yourself!'

[Jon's Queen Consort]

27 minutes ago, Arya_Stupid! said:

Wow, this seems like a real fun thread. Lol. 

'Please give me your examples, but if they don't follow my rules - go fuck yourself!'

It's more like totally different people cannot be counterparts based on their hair color or how good they look. If it was like that everyone would have been counterparts with another.

Like;

Aegon I and Aegon IV had golden hair and were handsome they much be counterparts.

Jaehaerys I and Aerys I had beard, had a grandfather named Aegon and loved books they much be counterparts.

Helaena and Elaena were not so beautiful as the rest of their family, her sister had bastards, were princesses and had children. Obviously they much be counterparts.

Do you see how pointless is to say that people that look the same or have some similarities about their family really is?

[Kal-L]

2 hours ago, Jon's Queen Consort said:

both fought in a Rebellion on the winning side against an uncle
didn't cared if someone was smallfolk or highborn
beloved by the smallfolk
both charismatic
great warrior
generous

Excuse me, those characteristic are pretty large and vague,  charismatic, great warrior, beloved by the smallfolk  could qualigied to a lot of knights, Arthur Dayne, Loras Tyrell, Aemon Dragonknight, Barristan Selmy. On top of that Robert was fighting against the crown like Daemon Blackfyre while Baelor was defending the throne like Rhaegar.

I don't know what you mean by "didn't cared if someone was highborn" because I never saw Robert stand for anyone the way Baelor did for Duncan.

I won't comment the seconnd part where you use Stannis and Maekar similarities as a proof of Robert and Baelor similarities.

[Jon's Queen Consort]

1 minute ago, Kal-L said:

snip

Still better than "very handsome".

[Kal-L]

2 minutes ago, Jon's Queen Consort said:

Still better than "very handsome".

Well unlike at least those very "large and vague" didn't fill more than half of my argumentation. By the way I'm still waiting for your argument about Robert doing something as noble as Baelor.

 

[Jon's Queen Consort]

1 minute ago, Kal-L said:

Well unlike at least those very "large and vague" didn't fill more than half of my argumentation. By the way I'm still waiting for your argument about Robert doing something as noble as Baelor.

He didn't exterminated the Iron Isles and the Stormlanders who betrayed him and he hepled his enemies like Barristan. 

[Kal-L]

Just now, Jon's Queen Consort said:

He didn't exterminated the Iron Isles and the Stormlanders who betrayed him and he hepled his enemies like Barristan. 

This is it, Robert spared a man who fought nobly but he is to take your words someone who "was willing to fight for what they thought that was right." I suppose he thought it was right to have Elia and her children savagely murdered since he didn't want to punish the culprits.

[Jon's Queen Consort]

Just now, Kal-L said:

This is it, Robert spared a man who fought nobly but he is to take your words someone who "was willing to fight for what they thought that was right." 

Because everyone would had been merciful and had helped their enemies?

1 minute ago, Kal-L said:

to have Elia and her children savagely murdered 

He never ordered their deaths.

3 hours ago, Kal-L said:

• are in love with that sister and have affair with her (at least one, the other is only suspected).

So you base your argument on rumours and gossips.

3 hours ago, Kal-L said:

• are very handsome

IIRC Aemon wasn't described as handsome.

[Kal-L]

Just now, Jon's Queen Consort said:

He never ordered their deaths.

And I never said he did, read me carefully.

1 minute ago, Jon's Queen Consort said:

So you base your argument on rumours and gossips.

We don't if that's true or not, what we know is that their storie shares are a lot of similarities the twins' one besides if the Lannisters happens to win the war what we know about them will only be "rumours".

5 minutes ago, Jon's Queen Consort said:

Because everyone would had been merciful and had helped their enemies?

The Kingsguard are obeying the King nothing else, everyone know it, that's why Daemon Blackfyre protected Gwyane Corbray corpse after their battle, because there was no enmity between them.

 

 

[Jon's Queen Consort]

10 minutes ago, Kal-L said:

We don't if that's true or not, what we know is that their storie shares are a lot of similarities the twins' one besides if the Lannisters happens to win the war what we know about them will only be "rumours".

If we don't know the truth or not it's still gossips and rumors.

10 minutes ago, Kal-L said:

The Kingsguard are obeying the King nothing else, everyone know it, that's why Daemon Blackfyre protected Gwyane Corbray corpse after their battle, because there was no enmity between them.

And what Daemon did was kind and not what most of the people would had done. Also Barri wasn't the only person who Robert was kind to. No lord or King would had allowed to their bannermen who betrayed them being more or less unpunished, however Robert did it.

[Kal-L]

1 minute ago, Jon's Queen Consort said:

And what Daemon did was kind and not what most of the people would had done. Also Barri wasn't the only person who Robert was kind too, no lord or King would had allowed to their bannermen who betrayed them being more or less unpunished. However Robert did it.

That's not standing for the weak or what is right, that is being generous. What I'm asking you is that one time where Robert defended the 'weak' despite title or anything, that time his sense of justice caused a scandal but he didn't care because he acted for the good. Elia and the kids are a good example of Robert partiality, they were already dead and he was the king, no one could have opposed him had he chosen to execute the Mountain.

[Jon's Queen Consort]

16 minutes ago, Kal-L said:

Elia and the kids are a good example of Robert partiality

12 years old in Westeros are still children. BloodRaven had Daemon's 12 years old sons killed and Baelor hadn't done nothing to punish him. So Robert hadn't punished the death of 2 children just like Baelor did. But I guess those were not children right?

16 minutes ago, Kal-L said:

no one could have opposed him had he chosen to execute the Mountain.

Tywin would had been insulted just like what happened when Payne's tongue was cut. Why make Tywin your enemy over something that had happened before you became a king and you couldn't change and should had happened sooner or later? Why is better to keep the two of them prisoners until they became 16 and kill them?

54 minutes ago, Kal-L said:

Stannis and Maekar similarities as a proof of Robert and Baelor similarities.

Just the same with using Cersei's and Naerys' and Robert's with Aegon's similarities.

[Kal-L]

50 minutes ago, Jon's Queen Consort said:

Tywin would had been insulted just like what happened when Payne's tongue was cut. Why make Tywin your enemy over something that had happened before you became a king and you couldn't change and should had happened sooner or later? Why is better to keep the two of them prisoners until they became 16 and kill them?

Tywin can feel as insulted as he wants, Robert is his King now, and he has no one to go cry after now he treacherously had Elia and the kids murdered. Besides doing the right thing no matter the consequences, isn't it what Baelor actually did ? Standing for a nobody like Duncan against his nephew and offending his brother wasn't a scandal ? Robert was always partial person and morally coward, that's why even years later as a King he had Sansa's wolf executed while he knew just like everyone else that his son was lying. He is nothing like Baelor and the Arya/Joffrey scene should be enough to prevent anyone to draw a parallel.

58 minutes ago, Jon's Queen Consort said:

12 years old in Westeros are still children. BloodRaven had Daemon's 12 years old sons killed and Baelor hadn't done nothing to punish him. So Robert hadn't punished the death of 2 children just like Baelor did. But I guess those were not children right?

Well it seems you can't (conveniently don't want to) see the difference between between helpless babies being savagely murdered alongsides their mother and two kids sadly fighting and dying on the battlefield alongside their father so I guess I'll stop here.

By the way you seem more interested into "winning a duel" rather than having a good debate so rest assured, I don't intend to read your response, this is definitely not worth my time.

[Jon's Queen Consort]

Just now, Kal-L said:

Tywin can feel as insulted as he wants, Robert is his King now,

Tywin was still the most powerful, cunning and cruel man in Westeros. So yes he matters.

2 minutes ago, Kal-L said:

Besides doing the right thing no matter the consequences, isn't it what Baelor actually did ?

No. Punishing Aerion without a battle would had been right and punishing BloodRaven would had been right.

3 minutes ago, Kal-L said:

he had Sansa's wolf executed

I love the direwolves but I see nothing wrong with that. Someone had to pay for the lies Sansa told.

5 minutes ago, Kal-L said:

morally coward

A morally coward person, like Hoster for example, would had destroyed the bannermen who had betrayed him, like Hoster did. Yet Robert chose to forgive them unlike what almost every Lord in Westeros would had done.

1 minute ago, Kal-L said:

Well it seems you can't (conveniently don't want to) see the difference between between helpless babies being savagely murdered alongsides their mother and two kids sadly fighting and dying on the battlefield alongside their father so I guess I'll stop here.

No I don't. Children are children no matter what. Sansa was 12 in AGOT, Theon was around 12 when Ned took him as hostage, Edric was around 12 when Mel wanted to kill him. If we can see them as children I see no reason to not think Aegon and Aemon as children too.

1 minute ago, Kal-L said:

By the way you seem more interested into "winning a duel" rather than having a good debate so rest assured, I don't intend to read your response, this is definitely not worth my time.

There is no duel, I am just saying my opinion.