If Lyanna is already married to Robert before HH tourney, will this make difference?

[purple-eyes]

1 hour ago, the trees have eyes said:

Eh, probably not.  Rhaegar seems to have consdiered Lyanna fair game and that the fall-out from the elopement would be far from ideal but managable all the same.  The idea that Brandon would ride to KL and call for him "to come out and die!" probably didn't cross his mind, nor that Aerys would murder Brandon and Rickard and order Robert and Ned to be murdered as well.

If Lyanna and Robert had already been married it looks far harder for him to think that making a move on Lyanna would be viable.  Not to mention that the polygamous marriage would not be an option for him with Lyanna already married unless he called for the High Septpon to dissolve that marriage (which looks even less likely) or somehow decided that Lyanna could enter into a polygamous marriage as well as him (even less likely again).

Ultimately I suppose it depends no how much you're into the magic of Jon Snow and the union of the ice and fire bloodlines.  If it had to be a Stark then Rhaegar was merely biding his time waiting for an opportunity to pounce and I don't think that comes out of the text.  If he merely thought there must be a third as the dragon meeded three heads and Elia could not bear another child then all he needed was a suitable consort.  There is no reason it has to be Lyanna and this is all part of the tragedy that it was and the assumption that he cared for her and came to admire her at HH (discovering her to be the KotLT etc) is much more likely.  Ned also thinks too highly of him (as do others) for him to be a prophecy-based nut who coldly planned to use Lyanna as nothing more than a broodmare.  If she was married though, she would not have been running around wild at HH (presumably) duelling knights in the lists and I don't think they would have developed the relationship that they did.

we do not know if Rhaegar realized that the saviour prince has to be a son of ice and fire. but according to the fact that he gave three best KG to Jon Snow and zero for Aegon and Rhaenys, we can reasonably guess that he already decided that child of lyanna would be the destined prince. he has changed his mind twice on who is the prince, why not again? and we know GRRM loves three. plus AA also failed twice to make the lightbringer. some people said rhaegar did the same thing and "stabbed" lyanna to death to make "lightbringer" baby. 

[BRANDON GREYSTARK]

None .

[OuttaOldtown]

13 hours ago, Little Scribe of Naath said:

To answer the OP, they would have, for sure.

And what about the twice mistaken impression of Rhaegar in thinking first he, then his son Aegon was the PtwP and would save the world?

Its highly questionable as nothing about a Targ/Martell union suggests ASoIaF, where's the ice? Rhaegar looking at Dany as he says it also raises questions to its total authenticity. " Within, you will see many things that disturb you. Visions of loveliness and visions of horror, wonders and terrors. Sights and sounds of days gone by and days to come and days that never were. Dwellers and servitors may speak to you as you go. Answer or ignore them as you choose, but enter no room until you reach the audience chamber."

Or that Aegon and Rhaenys were the three heads?

Proof? I have no idea what the three heads is referring to, but I have doubts its all about his offspring..

Rhaegar was not some God, for f--k's sake. He had no right - absolutely none - to throw away thousands of people's lives over a prophecy which he had already interpreted wrongly.  His arrogance in believing only he or his descendants could save the world is astounding.

Wow! You know he was wrong already! George? Is that you? 

Look at Melisandre. If she ends up burning Shireen at the stake tomorrow for "saving" Westeros due to her "prophecies" (which she also wrongly interprets half the time), is it justified?

I have beliefs about R'hllor and AAR that differ from most, LmL's theory that their savior was actually the destroyer is where I lean, plenty of clues that Red Priests are a dangerous ally, I believe Tyrion says something to that effect when he hears Benerro speak. My views on Shireen are also different, the child is doomed. 

Did Rhaegar bother sending reinforcements to the Wall? Did he go and visit the Night's Watch to see how the state of affairs there was? If he was so concerned about saving the world, you might think he would have done that.

You're ignoring secrecy, it doesn't match with anything we see from him. My first thought is if you don't know the song you can't knowingly take part. I fully believe Mance knows more than he's revealed, and Bael the Bard played his part long ago. There are others I suspect but feel less confident about..

 

 

[the trees have eyes]

12 hours ago, purple-eyes said:

we do not know if Rhaegar realized that the saviour prince has to be a son of ice and fire. but according to the fact that he gave three best KG to Jon Snow and zero for Aegon and Rhaenys, we can reasonably guess that he already decided that child of lyanna would be the destined prince. he has changed his mind twice on who is the prince, why not again? and we know GRRM loves three. plus AA also failed twice to make the lightbringer. some people said rhaegar did the same thing and "stabbed" lyanna to death to make "lightbringer" baby. 

But the dragon must have threee heads doesn't imply that one head, the third, is more important than the other two.  If the magical union of ice and fire is all that mattered the three heads is an irrelevance but Rhaegar clearly didn't think so.  I still don't see anything in the story we have been told so far that led Rhaegar to realise that saving the world required him to have a child with a Stark, just that he "needed" three children and Elia could not bear another so he had to find a suitable spouse/lover for the third.  The reader may conjecture or deduce that but what we know of HH and the TotLK points to an accidental meeting between Rhaegar and Lyanna not a pre-planned ploy by Rhaegar.  If he came to consider that TPTWP > the 3 heads of the dragon and that TPTWP must be the one who's song will be "the song of ice and fire" (Dany's visions in THOTU) and that required a Stark and only a Stark it hasn't really been presented that way though I understand it's a popular theory and has sounds underpinnings.

As to who was guarding who: Jon has considerably less protection than Aegon and Rhaenys.  They were in KL behind the walls of the Red Keep and as safe as safe could be at least until Rahegar loses on the Trident and then no one is safe (cue Dayne, Whent and Hightower dying at the ToJ).  They were also protected by a number of the KG until Rhaegar led Selmy, Darry and Lewin Martell to the Trident leaving only Jaime in KL.  Lyanna (and Jon), in contrast, were protected by only three men and were in a questionably safe location somewhere in the Stormlands / Dornish marches.  The fact that Aerys himself may have been a problem for Rhaegar over the elopement/kidnapping of Lyanna seems the only reasonable explanation for her not being in KL under the protection of House Targaryen like the rest of the royal family, wahtever her and Jon's actual royal status.

I haven't heard anyone conjecture that Rhaegar stabbed a pregnant Lyanna to make his magical baby before and it seems an implausibly reckless and counter-productive approach.  Not to mention that she was a long time dying if he did that and went to KL and the Trident and then Ned had time to march south to KL and then Storm's End before finally coming to the ToJ to find her still alive.  Post-childbirth complications seems much more likely given the information we have.

[Little Scribe of Naath]

56 minutes ago, OuttaOldtown said:

[snip]

What is the life of one boy against a kingdom?

"Everything" - Ser Davos

 

Prince Rhaegar loved his Lady Lyanna, and thousands died for it.

Prophecy is like a half-trained mule. It looks as though it might be useful, but the moment you trust in it, it kicks you in the head.

 

I ask you again, how is Rhaegar justified in any of his actions,  especially when he knew he had interpreted the prophecy wrongly before? How does he have the right to decide the lives of thousands of people? Because he is a Targ? Because he was such a perfect person?

Sorry, but everything we know about Rhaegar and Lyanna suggests it was a heady love affair. There is no other reason why he would throw caution to the wind and run away with the daughter of a LP, who was betrothed to another LP, and had the support of two other LP's at their back (Tully and Arryn). Even if he felt he had to create an "ice and fire" baby with her because of a prophecy, there are ways to have done it in a clandestine manner.

 

And if Melisandre burns Shireen to allegedly save Westeros due to a vision she receives, it's alright because that child is doomed anyway, and hence, disposable?

[purple-eyes]

2 minutes ago, the trees have eyes said:

But the dragon must have threee heads doesn't imply that one head, the third, is more important than the other two.  If the magical union of ice and fire is all that mattered the three heads is an irrelevance but Rhaegar clearly didn't think so.  I still don't see anything in the story we have been told so far that led Rhaegar to realise that saving the world required him to have a child with a Stark, just that he "needed" three children and Elia could not bear another so he had to find a suitable spouse/lover for the third.  The reader may conjecture or deduce that but what we know of HH and the TotLK points to an accidental meeting between Rhaegar and Lyanna not a pre-planned ploy by Rhaegar.  If he came to consider that TPTWP > the 3 heads of the dragon and that TPTWP must be the one who's song will be "the song of ice and fire" (Dany's visions in THOTU) and that required a Stark and only a Stark it hasn't really been presented that way though I understand it's a popular theory and has sounds underpinnings.

As to who was guarding who: Jon has considerably less protection than Aegon and Rhaenys.  They were in KL behind the walls of the Red Keep and as safe as safe could be at least until Rahegar loses on the Trident and then no one is safe (cue Dayne, Whent and Hightower dying at the ToJ).  They were also protected by a number of the KG until Rhaegar led Selmy, Darry and Lewin Martell to the Trident leaving only Jaime in KL.  Lyanna (and Jon), in contrast, were protected by only three men and were in a questionably safe location somewhere in the Stormlands / Dornish marches.  The fact that Aerys himself may have been a problem for Rhaegar over the elopement/kidnapping of Lyanna seems the only reasonable explanation for her not being in KL under the protection of House Targaryen like the rest of the royal family, wahtever her and Jon's actual royal status.

I haven't heard anyone conjecture that Rhaegar stabbed a pregnant Lyanna to make his magical baby before and it seems an implausibly reckless and counter-productive approach.  Not to mention that she was a long time dying if he did that and went to KL and the Trident and then Ned had time to march south to KL and then Storm's End before finally coming to the ToJ to find her still alive.  Post-childbirth complications seems much more likely given the information we have.

the problem is that, if any woman can do this job, then rhaegar was very stupid, naive and selfish to choose Lyanna to carry this child, even if he loved her deeply. he could father this child by Ashara for example. then nobody needs to die.  Lyanna is daughter of LP and bride of his cousin. himself had a lot of problems with king too. not to mention the anger of his wife's house over a stark lover. he is calling a war without doubt even if Aerys is a sane man like Aegon V. 

everything points at that rhaegar desperately needs to knock up Lyanna Stark. in order to do this, he choose to put Lyanna's and his own family members into great danger. and he later is willing to fight and kill Ned by himself. do not you feel this too strange? if someone loves a woman deeply, do you think he would want to wipe out her whole family? 

according to some people's thoughts, not me, Rhaegar "stabbed" lyanna to death is a symbolic description that he had sex with her and made her pregnant then she was killed by childbirth (which is jon snow, a strong candidate for lightbringer).  

 

 

[OuttaOldtown]

1 minute ago, Little Scribe of Naath said:

What is the life of one boy against a kingdom?

"Everything" - Ser Davos

 

Prince Rhaegar loved his Lady Lyanna, and thousands died for it.

Prophecy is like a half-trained mule. It looks as though it might be useful, but the moment you trust in it, it kicks you in the head.

 

I ask you again, how is Rhaegar justified in any of his actions,  especially when he knew he had interpreted the prophecy wrongly before? How does he have the right to decide the lives of thousands of people? Because he is a Targ? Because he was such a perfect person?

Sorry, but everything we know about Rhaegar and Lyanna suggests it was a heady love affair. There is no other reason why he would throw caution to the wind and run away with the daughter of a LP, who was betrothed to another LP, and had the support of two other LP's at their back (Tully and Arryn). Even if he felt he had to create an "ice and fire" baby with her because of a prophecy, there are ways to have done it in a clandestine manner.

 

And if Melisandre burns Shireen to allegedly save Westeros due to a vision she receives, it's alright because that child is doomed anyway, and hence, disposable?

Sorry, but I totally disagree with you on it being so clearly about love, you have no chance of swaying my opinion, you can think you know all you like, you know nothing. You base all your opinions on the second-hand knowledge we're spoon-fed, I see clues that aren't so direct. I do not believe George has set them up to be as you suggest, two fools in love who did nothing but harm. And Shireen was dead from her introduction, I don't get all emo about the doomed like so many of you..

[purple-eyes]

10 minutes ago, OuttaOldtown said:

Sorry, but I totally disagree with you on it being so clearly about love, you have no chance of swaying my opinion, you can think you know all you like, you know nothing. You base all your opinions on the second-hand knowledge we're spoon-fed, I see clues that aren't so direct. I do not believe George has set them up to be as you suggest, two fools in love who did nothing but harm. And Shireen was dead from her introduction, I don't get all emo about the doomed like so many of you..

you said very well: two fools in love who did nothing but harm. 

that is exactly what they are. 

otherwise why did rhaegar name the tower as tower of joy? as many people already suggested, that was a symbolic description of his penis, not his duties to save the planet. 

 

[OuttaOldtown]

Just now, purple-eyes said:

you said very well: two fools in love who did nothing but harm. 

that is exactly what they are. 

otherwise why did rhaegar name the tower as tower of joy? as many people already suggested, that was a symbolic description of his penis, not his duties to save the planet. 

 

I listen to the pages in the book, not popular fan opinions. Can care less who agrees with me..

[purple-eyes]

2 minutes ago, OuttaOldtown said:

I listen to the pages in the book, not popular fan opinions. Can care less who agrees with me..

this forum is full of fan opinions. and everybody read the same books. so we have to agree to disagree. 

[the trees have eyes]

35 minutes ago, purple-eyes said:

the problem is that, if any woman can do this job, then rhaegar was very stupid, naive and selfish to choose Lyanna to carry this child, even if he loved her deeply. he could father this child by Ashara for example. then nobody needs to die.  Lyanna is daughter of LP and bride of his cousin. himself had a lot of problems with king too. not to mention the anger of his wife's house over a stark lover. he is calling a war without doubt even if Aerys is a sane man like Aegon V. 

everything points at that rhaegar desperately needs to knock up Lyanna Stark. in order to do this, he choose to put Lyanna's and his own family members into great danger. and he later is willing to fight and kill Ned by himself. do not you feel this too strange? if someone loves a woman deeply, do you think he would want to wipe out her whole family? 

according to some people's thoughts, not me, Rhaegar "stabbed" lyanna to death is a symbolic description that he had sex with her and made her pregnant then she was killed by childbirth (which is jon snow, a strong candidate for lightbringer).  

 

 

Whether Rhaegar was stupid, naive or selfish is up for debate but we certainly do know that he was wrong.  Wrong in that he could take a betrothed daughter of a powerful noble House, offending two significant families, and manage the consequences.

But I don't agree at all that he could have foreseen Brandon's overreaction or Aerys's further grotesque overreaction.  He did not expect war to result or anybody to die because he was a calm, introspective and thoughtful character and would not have acted in such a way or foreseen it.  His actions are yet to be properly explained by the author but we are using the wisdom of hindsight to judge Brandon "the wild wolf"'s actions or Aerys's sadistic murder of both Brandon and Rickard as foreseeable.  Rhaegar was too reasonable imo to expect Brandon to be so recklessly foolish or Aerys so monstrously cruel.  Aerys started the war by taking a matter that could have been resolved peacably - albeit with difficulty - and turning 3/4 Lords Paramount against him at a stroke.  If Rhaegar was calling a war without a doubt he did remarkably little to prepare for it.  But then it was Aerys who started the bloodshed not Rhaegar and where the blame lies imo.  Do you blame Gavrilo Princip for WW1?  He is responsible for his own actions but not those of others.

There isn't any evidence that Rhaegar decided he needed Lyanna and only Lyanna.  You can interpret the HH info as a romantic love affair or a coldly clinical ploy to get the woman with the magic blood to make the magic baby but until we get a bit more info we don't know.   Maybe he decided that it had to be her and fell in love with her anyway.  After all Ned seems to think too well of Rhaegar for Rhaegar to be a villain here. TBC.  Incidentally, Kings and Crown Princes are actually used to bedding whomever they please, married or single.  Hence the rumours about Aerys and Ashara Dayne or Joanna Lannister and Joffrey's unpleasant threat to Sansa to make her belly big despite her marriage to Tyrion.

When did Rhaegar try and kill Ned?  He led forces in battle against rebel lords as you would expect the Crown Prince to do but there is no indication that he intended to kill Ned or wipe out Lyanna's family.  That is the path taken by Aerys not by Rhaegar.  He could easily have taken Ned hostage and proven to the rebels that if they laid down their arms he would spare them while he finally put Aerys aside as he seems to have intended.

Oh, right phallic symbolism. Ok.  So much for Lyanna weeping with emotion when Rhaegar played a sad song on his harp at HH, it's all about him slaying her.  Well, don't anyone tell Azor Ahai that he was only meant to bone his wife.

[purple-eyes]

1 hour ago, the trees have eyes said:

Whether Rhaegar was stupid, naive or selfish is up for debate but we certainly do know that he was wrong.  Wrong in that he could take a betrothed daughter of a powerful noble House, offending two significant families, and manage the consequences.

But I don't agree at all that he could have foreseen Brandon's overreaction or Aerys's further grotesque overreaction.  He did not expect war to result or anybody to die because he was a calm, introspective and thoughtful character and would not have acted in such a way or foreseen it.  His actions are yet to be properly explained by the author but we are using the wisdom of hindsight to judge Brandon "the wild wolf"'s actions or Aerys's sadistic murder of both Brandon and Rickard as foreseeable.  Rhaegar was too reasonable imo to expect Brandon to be so recklessly foolish or Aerys so monstrously cruel.  Aerys started the war by taking a matter that could have been resolved peacably - albeit with difficulty - and turning 3/4 Lords Paramount against him at a stroke.  If Rhaegar was calling a war without a doubt he did remarkably little to prepare for it.  But then it was Aerys who started the bloodshed not Rhaegar and where the blame lies imo.  Do you blame Gavrilo Princip for WW1?  He is responsible for his own actions but not those of others.

There isn't any evidence that Rhaegar decided he needed Lyanna and only Lyanna.  You can interpret the HH info as a romantic love affair or a coldly clinical ploy to get the woman with the magic blood to make the magic baby but until we get a bit more info we don't know.   Maybe he decided that it had to be her and fell in love with her anyway.  After all Ned seems to think too well of Rhaegar for Rhaegar to be a villain here. TBC.  Incidentally, Kings and Crown Princes are actually used to bedding whomever they please, married or single.  Hence the rumours about Aerys and Ashara Dayne or Joanna Lannister and Joffrey's unpleasant threat to Sansa to make her belly big despite her marriage to Tyrion.

When did Rhaegar try and kill Ned?  He led forces in battle against rebel lords as you would expect the Crown Prince to do but there is no indication that he intended to kill Ned or wipe out Lyanna's family.  That is the path taken by Aerys not by Rhaegar.  He could easily have taken Ned hostage and proven to the rebels that if they laid down their arms he would spare them while he finally put Aerys aside as he seems to have intended.

Oh, right phallic symbolism. Ok.  So much for Lyanna weeping with emotion when Rhaegar played a sad song on his harp at HH, it's all about him slaying her.  Well, don't anyone tell Azor Ahai that he was only meant to bone his wife.

it sounds like rhaegar is so innocent. "you know nothing, rhaegar targaryen" , right? 

the fact is, Aerys is not suddenly mad from that day brandon ran into KL. he is cruel and crazy for quite a while, so much so that even rhaegar was planning to depose him. and rhaegar knew how serious a betroth between great houses is, and he knows lyanna is his cousin's bride. 

with these conditions, he is literally calling a war. this is not a stable boy who ran away with a servant girl, OK? there is very small chance that it can be settled peacefully. if rhaegar is willing to bet aerys and stark and barathoen can sit down and shake hands and fix it peacefully, then he is a giant idiot. 

even as you said, rhaegar did not expect any of these. then why hide for one year? did it take one year for him to know what happened in KL? why not come back to his duties earlier? only reason is that he wanted to enjoy his time with lyanna. 

rhaegar is leading 40000 men to fight with rebels. ned and robert are leaders. of course they will fight until the very end! it is so naive to say, oh, maybe rhaegar is planning to spare ned! do you think he sent out a secret order: hey, nobody should hurt ned stark?

he is ready to kill ned, just like he is ready to kill an quite innocent Robert. rhaegar is evil in this case. he stole robert's lawful bride and now he tried to kill Robert. rhaegar well deserved that hammer on his chest. 

 

 

 

 

 

[purple-eyes]

1 hour ago, the trees have eyes said:

Whether Rhaegar was stupid, naive or selfish is up for debate but we certainly do know that he was wrong.  Wrong in that he could take a betrothed daughter of a powerful noble House, offending two significant families, and manage the consequences.

But I don't agree at all that he could have foreseen Brandon's overreaction or Aerys's further grotesque overreaction.  He did not expect war to result or anybody to die because he was a calm, introspective and thoughtful character and would not have acted in such a way or foreseen it.  His actions are yet to be properly explained by the author but we are using the wisdom of hindsight to judge Brandon "the wild wolf"'s actions or Aerys's sadistic murder of both Brandon and Rickard as foreseeable.  Rhaegar was too reasonable imo to expect Brandon to be so recklessly foolish or Aerys so monstrously cruel.  Aerys started the war by taking a matter that could have been resolved peacably - albeit with difficulty - and turning 3/4 Lords Paramount against him at a stroke.  If Rhaegar was calling a war without a doubt he did remarkably little to prepare for it.  But then it was Aerys who started the bloodshed not Rhaegar and where the blame lies imo.  Do you blame Gavrilo Princip for WW1?  He is responsible for his own actions but not those of others.

There isn't any evidence that Rhaegar decided he needed Lyanna and only Lyanna.  You can interpret the HH info as a romantic love affair or a coldly clinical ploy to get the woman with the magic blood to make the magic baby but until we get a bit more info we don't know.   Maybe he decided that it had to be her and fell in love with her anyway.  After all Ned seems to think too well of Rhaegar for Rhaegar to be a villain here. TBC.  Incidentally, Kings and Crown Princes are actually used to bedding whomever they please, married or single.  Hence the rumours about Aerys and Ashara Dayne or Joanna Lannister and Joffrey's unpleasant threat to Sansa to make her belly big despite her marriage to Tyrion.

When did Rhaegar try and kill Ned?  He led forces in battle against rebel lords as you would expect the Crown Prince to do but there is no indication that he intended to kill Ned or wipe out Lyanna's family.  That is the path taken by Aerys not by Rhaegar.  He could easily have taken Ned hostage and proven to the rebels that if they laid down their arms he would spare them while he finally put Aerys aside as he seems to have intended.

Oh, right phallic symbolism. Ok.  So much for Lyanna weeping with emotion when Rhaegar played a sad song on his harp at HH, it's all about him slaying her.  Well, don't anyone tell Azor Ahai that he was only meant to bone his wife.

lyanna is weeping, cersei is weeping, whole house of griff are weeping at rhaegar's songs. 

what is big deal then? 

[Lady Lia]

21 hours ago, purple-eyes said:

14 years old. many women in the book married at this age. 

Sure. And many didn't. Catelyn and Cersei were both around 18 (despite Catelyn having been betrothed since 12), Elia was in her 20s, and I imagine I could find a bunch of other 16+ brides if I trawled the wiki.

[purple-eyes]

57 minutes ago, Lady Lia said:

Sure. And many didn't. Catelyn and Cersei were both around 18 (despite Catelyn having been betrothed since 12), Elia was in her 20s, and I imagine I could find a bunch of other 16+ brides if I trawled the wiki.

oh, yeah, there is some northern girl who is still single at 30s. so what? 

these facts proved that lyanna can surely get married at 14 in that era. no matter how many brides are older than her. 

kind of like legal age for drinking for driving, you have to be older than a certain age, but nobody cares how many years older. 

 

[Lady Lia]

Yes, obviously, girls can marry at 14. And in infancy. We've seen that too.

Girls clearly don't have to be married by 14, since we have several significantly older first-time brides.

Rickard could have decided to wait until Lyanna was older for the same reasons, whatever those were, that Hoster and Mama Martell decided to wait until Catelyn and Elia were older. There's nothing I can recall to suggest that that would be strange in any way.

[purple-eyes]

57 minutes ago, Lady Lia said:

Yes, obviously, girls can marry at 14. And in infancy. We've seen that too.

Girls clearly don't have to be married by 14, since we have several significantly older first-time brides.

Rickard could have decided to wait until Lyanna was older for the same reasons, whatever those were, that Hoster and Mama Martell decided to wait until Catelyn and Elia were older. There's nothing I can recall to suggest that that would be strange in any way.

of course there is something unusual. Robert was already a ruling LP and his mom died long time ago. Storm's end needs a first lady and Robert is in a very mature age to marry and get heirs. even nowadays, it is rare to see a country leader without a spouse. 

[Ser Leftwich]

Nonsense, not unusual at all. Renly, Edmure, Willis.

Rickard could have any number of reasons to delay. Maybe he wanted to have Brandon married first. Maybe for Brandon to have a son. Maybe he wanted to use Lyanna as leverage against Robert to find a female heir in the Stormlands for Ned to marry. Maybe Rickard knew of a history of deaths from having children too soon in the Stark family.

Maybe Rickard wanted his daughter to live in the south for a year or two and learn some courtly manners.

[naseridrl]

Maybe he also wanted his daughter to fill out a bit first and have a better chance of surviving childbirth.

[purple-eyes]

58 minutes ago, Ser Leftwich said:

Nonsense, not unusual at all. Renly, Edmure, Willis.

Rickard could have any number of reasons to delay. Maybe he wanted to have Brandon married first. Maybe for Brandon to have a son. Maybe he wanted to use Lyanna as leverage against Robert to find a female heir in the Stormlands for Ned to marry. Maybe Rickard knew of a history of deaths from having children too soon in the Stark family.

Maybe Rickard wanted his daughter to live in the south for a year or two and learn some courtly manners.

what nonsense? Renly is gay, Edmure soon got married after death of his daddy. Willas is not a ruling LP and he is a crippled guy.

Give me one example that a 20 something ruling LP (without heirs) did not get married as soon as he can.