BricksAndSparrows Posted August 2, 2016 Share Posted August 2, 2016 In the prologue of A Dance With Dragons, we are introduced to the concept of the the "second life." This is where a skinchanger, or Warg is able to (at the time of their death,) permanantly move his or her consciousness into another life form. Do you folks think this is more than an interesting tidbit in the World of Ice and Fire? Do you think we will see a character resurrected in such a way? And if so, who? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Knight of Onions Posted August 2, 2016 Share Posted August 2, 2016 There's a good chance that Jon will at least temporarily become Ghost after his assassination. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prince of the North Posted August 2, 2016 Share Posted August 2, 2016 Yeah, it was definitely shown to us for a reason. I'm confident it will play a larger role in ASoIaF before the end. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon Snow Nothing Posted August 2, 2016 Share Posted August 2, 2016 34 minutes ago, BricksAndSparrows said: In the prologue of A Dance With Dragons, we are introduced to the concept of the the "second life." This is where a skinchanger, or Warg is able to (at the time of their death,) permanantly move his or her consciousness into another life form. Do you folks think this is more than an interesting tidbit in the World of Ice and Fire? Do you think we will see a character resurrected in such a way? And if so, who? If this happens to one of the main characters, it will be Bran. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BricksAndSparrows Posted August 2, 2016 Author Share Posted August 2, 2016 7 minutes ago, Knight of Onions said: There's a good chance that Jon will at least temporarily become Ghost after his assassination. This is what I think. Except I think he will stay in Ghost. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BricksAndSparrows Posted August 2, 2016 Author Share Posted August 2, 2016 15 minutes ago, Jon Snow Nothing said: If this happens to one of the main characters, it will be Bran. I tend to think it was for the sake of Jon Snow, but Bran is definitely a possibilty. I always thought it would be funny if bloodraven have just brought Bran to cave so he could get him hooked up to the weirwood and take his body. Not saying that is what will happen, but it would be pretty funny. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prince of the North Posted August 2, 2016 Share Posted August 2, 2016 15 minutes ago, BricksAndSparrows said: This is what I think. Except I think he will stay in Ghost. I've mused on this a bit. Let's say Jon is in Ghost because he was actually killed by the mutineers. Then let's say Jon's body is resurrected by Melisandre via the "Kiss of Fire" or whatever. Would Jon be able to get back into his body? Would he just be able to do it easily because, presumably, there's no other consciousness or "soul" in there or would he have to sort of take his body over again like taking an occupied castle back? It could be interesting to have, in a way, two Jons running around and the "real" Jon having to figure out a way back into his body Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisdaw Posted August 2, 2016 Share Posted August 2, 2016 The second life is how dragon's were tamed. Valyrian families sacrificed a family member and seemingly an unborn or newly born child, and through blood magic they would begin a second life inside a dragon, and that dragon would become more hospitable, enough to ride in some or maybe all cases. Dany successfully carried out this process when she birthed her dragons, and Khal Drogo lives on inside Drogon. She was clearly not the first, as in her wake the dragon dream a row of Valyrians, possibly Targaryens, urge her onwards to wake the dragon. What she did has been done before, it is a process, repeatable. The second life is what the three heads of the dragon means. Drogon will go through three states, as other characters repeat the process and enter a second life within him. He is in his first head, Drogo's. Euron will be the second head. Using his horn, he will trade his blood for fire, he will jump from a tall tower, that is commit suicide, and he will fly, that is begin a second life as the dragon. This is why he needs Dany, as he needs a child with dragon blood to repeat the process. Then Drogon will need a third head, to fix him from the corruption of Euron's kraken blood. Dany will ultimately be the third head, it is her red door. She will begin a second life inside of Drogon, she will cast out Euron, and reunite with Drogo and Rhaego inside the dragon (the TV show substitution for Dany's HOTU visions). The process does not only apply to dragons. Euron is going to do the same thing with a kraken, that's why he took up Falia. Only a dragon seems to be a one way skinchanging, there's no going back, the person has to die, hence Euron's fixation on throwing oneself out a tower, he'll never know unless he tries. A kraken however, Euron will be able to go back and forth between. And second lives within different beasts by characters with mismatching bloodlines are what sphinxes are. The beast will change depending on the bloodline of the person skinchanging it and the child sacrificed as well. So Euron second lifing a dragon will create a half kraken half dragon monstrosity, a great beast, something like a sea dragon. Other bloodlines for other beasts, hence the statues littered around Westeros and the rumours of what gets done in Asshai with blood magic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BricksAndSparrows Posted August 3, 2016 Author Share Posted August 3, 2016 16 hours ago, Prince of the North said: I've mused on this a bit. Let's say Jon is in Ghost because he was actually killed by the mutineers. Then let's say Jon's body is resurrected by Melisandre via the "Kiss of Fire" or whatever. Would Jon be able to get back into his body? Would he just be able to do it easily because, presumably, there's no other consciousness or "soul" in there or would he have to sort of take his body over again like taking an occupied castle back? It could be interesting to have, in a way, two Jons running around and the "real" Jon having to figure out a way back into his body That's funny. I was wondering this myself. I think if Jon had completely made the transfer,to the point where the memories of his original life were fading away. at that point the red-surrection would just fail. I have no proof of this, and so this speculation may be dismissed without explanation, but it just seems like it would be the case. To me anyway. Maybe he would end up like a vegetable? Like Drogo in the show. Another thing that I wonder about is this: If a Warg dies, and chooses another Warg to inhabit for his/her second life, would the invading spirit be able to "keep on warging?" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ashes Of Westeros Posted August 3, 2016 Share Posted August 3, 2016 I think either Arya or Bran would get a "second life" if their human bodies wiill die. Arya would warg in Nymeria, as for Bran he could warg in Summer, weirwood etc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BricksAndSparrows Posted August 3, 2016 Author Share Posted August 3, 2016 17 hours ago, chrisdaw said: The second life is how dragon's were tamed. Valyrian families sacrificed a family member and seemingly an unborn or newly born child, and through blood magic they would begin a second life inside a dragon, and that dragon would become more hospitable, enough to ride in some or maybe all cases. Dany successfully carried out this process when she birthed her dragons, and Khal Drogo lives on inside Drogon. She was clearly not the first, as in her wake the dragon dream a row of Valyrians, possibly Targaryens, urge her onwards to wake the dragon. What she did has been done before, it is a process, repeatable. The second life is what the three heads of the dragon means. Drogon will go through three states, as other characters repeat the process and enter a second life within him. He is in his first head, Drogo's. Euron will be the second head. Using his horn, he will trade his blood for fire, he will jump from a tall tower, that is commit suicide, and he will fly, that is begin a second life as the dragon. This is why he needs Dany, as he needs a child with dragon blood to repeat the process. Then Drogon will need a third head, to fix him from the corruption of Euron's kraken blood. Dany will ultimately be the third head, it is her red door. She will begin a second life inside of Drogon, she will cast out Euron, and reunite with Drogo and Rhaego inside the dragon (the TV show substitution for Dany's HOTU visions). The process does not only apply to dragons. Euron is going to do the same thing with a kraken, that's why he took up Falia. Only a dragon seems to be a one way skinchanging, there's no going back, the person has to die, hence Euron's fixation on throwing oneself out a tower, he'll never know unless he tries. A kraken however, Euron will be able to go back and forth between. And second lives within different beasts by characters with mismatching bloodlines are what sphinxes are. The beast will change depending on the bloodline of the person skinchanging it and the child sacrificed as well. So Euron second lifing a dragon will create a half kraken half dragon monstrosity, a great beast, something like a sea dragon. Other bloodlines for other beasts, hence the statues littered around Westeros and the rumours of what gets done in Asshai with blood magic. I don't watch the show. I'm actually trying my best to avoid it... I really like the theory of second lives being used in the dragon taming process. I felt the the ADWD prologue was definitely foreshadowing and what I like about this dragon taming theory is that its completely unexpected (for me anyway.) I'm assuming that your post is coming from a larger theory (your own?) that must have explanations for some of the claims being made. Because it seems highly speculative... I'd like to hear more. Cna you send a link? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clegane'sPup Posted August 3, 2016 Share Posted August 3, 2016 I'm kinda under the impression that Var talking about a second life means that after the warg or skinchanger dies (dead dead) his spirit/essence lives on in his animal until his spirit/essence dissipates. As in, Var can experience what his animal is doing, but has no actual control. Var is just along for the ride. As in, Var took over the eagle that belonged to Orell when Orell died (dead) but Var knew what Orell was thinking because part of Orell's spirit/essence was still in the eagle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YOVMO Posted August 3, 2016 Share Posted August 3, 2016 21 hours ago, BricksAndSparrows said: In the prologue of A Dance With Dragons, we are introduced to the concept of the the "second life." This is where a skinchanger, or Warg is able to (at the time of their death,) permanantly move his or her consciousness into another life form. Do you folks think this is more than an interesting tidbit in the World of Ice and Fire? Do you think we will see a character resurrected in such a way? And if so, who? I have a bit of tinfoil going on that says that westeros is totally destroyed in the war, all sides wipe each other out and at the end of dream of spring we will see a westeros similar to the one of the dawn age, with everyone gone, except for two direwolves running around...Jon and Arya. Of course I don't really believe this will work out like this, but it makes me smile to think of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RumHam Posted August 3, 2016 Share Posted August 3, 2016 21 hours ago, chrisdaw said: The second life is how dragon's were tamed. Valyrian families sacrificed a family member and seemingly an unborn or newly born child, and through blood magic they would begin a second life inside a dragon, and that dragon would become more hospitable, enough to ride in some or maybe all cases. This is an interesting idea I hadn't heard before. 4 hours ago, Ashes Of Westeros said: I think either Arya or Bran would get a "second life" if their human bodies wiill die. Arya would warg in Nymeria, as for Bran he could warg in Summer, weirwood etc Yeah I think Arya is most likely to end up permanently in her wolf. I could imagine getting a Nymeria chapter in the last book. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BricksAndSparrows Posted August 3, 2016 Author Share Posted August 3, 2016 15 minutes ago, YOVMO said: I have a bit of tinfoil going on that says that westeros is totally destroyed in the war, all sides wipe each other out and at the end of dream of spring we will see a westeros similar to the one of the dawn age, with everyone gone, except for two direwolves running around...Jon and Arya. Of course I don't really believe this will work out like this, but it makes me smile to think of it. I really don't think you're that far off. I think we're going to end up with a really high body count, many great houses extinguished, and definitely, at lease one Stark living through their wolf. But that wasn't tinfoily...you wanna hear tinfoil, my theory for the ending makes yours sound like it's carved out of wood. I think Dany is going to take her dragons to battle the Others at the wall. I think 2 dragons will die, and Drogon will fly off grievously injured, presumed dead. The Others will be defeated, but Dany's decision will cost her the Iron Throne. So she ends up on Dragonstone somehow, brooding in the chamber of the painted table. I think the painted table is going to factor into Mirri Maz Duur's prophecy. The table, with it's dry seas and mountains like leaves blown away in the wind (flattened.) There have been MANY instances in the series (Dunc and Egg, too) where severe fires have looked like a sunrise. Maybe KL will be burning.... And then Daenerys will find those fabled eggs, and/or hear the flap of Drogon's wings... Fin Do your fillings hurt? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YOVMO Posted August 3, 2016 Share Posted August 3, 2016 10 minutes ago, BricksAndSparrows said: I really don't think you're that far off. I think we're going to end up with a really high body count, many great houses extinguished, and definitely, at lease one Stark living through their wolf. But that wasn't tinfoily...you wanna hear tinfoil, my theory for the ending makes yours sound like it's carved out of wood. I think Dany is going to take her dragons to battle the Others at the wall. I think 2 dragons will die, and Drogon will fly off grievously injured, presumed dead. The Others will be defeated, but Dany's decision will cost her the Iron Throne. So she ends up on Dragonstone somehow, brooding in the chamber of the painted table. I think the painted table is going to factor into Mirri Maz Duur's prophecy. The table, with it's dry seas and mountains like leaves blown away in the wind (flattened.) There have been MANY instances in the series (Dunc and Egg, too) where severe fires have looked like a sunrise. Maybe KL will be burning.... And then Daenerys will find those fabled eggs, and/or hear the flap of Drogon's wings... Fin Do your fillings hurt? That is some serious tin foil my friend. Oddly enough, for totally different reasons, I have two of the dragons dying early on (though I have drogon dying later). I love the idea of the painted table factoring into Mirri Maz Duur's prophecy with dry seas, east to go west, leaves blown away etc etc etc I do not think there is anyway in the world that Dany actually becomes a player in westeros. I have suspected her to be killed by Victarion in a way that was totally meaningless and just showed how her character would be snuffed out as insignificant the way Payne didn't think for a second when he took off neds head. That said, this is new to me and I will need some time to process. Well played sir. This is the first Dany theory that I have heard that has convinced me that it is even possible that she lives. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heileen Posted August 3, 2016 Share Posted August 3, 2016 That would be pretty awesome! Having a warg still live on long after their physical body has been gone. It would be odd if it didn't come up again later on in the books. maybe there are more wargs than we were shown and are still in hiding or abiding their time until the Others come and break open the wall. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisdaw Posted August 3, 2016 Share Posted August 3, 2016 7 hours ago, BricksAndSparrows said: I don't watch the show. I'm actually trying my best to avoid it... I really like the theory of second lives being used in the dragon taming process. I felt the the ADWD prologue was definitely foreshadowing and what I like about this dragon taming theory is that its completely unexpected (for me anyway.) I'm assuming that your post is coming from a larger theory (your own?) that must have explanations for some of the claims being made. Because it seems highly speculative... I'd like to hear more. Cna you send a link? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ashes Of Westeros Posted August 4, 2016 Share Posted August 4, 2016 13 hours ago, RumHam said: This is an interesting idea I hadn't heard before. Yeah I think Arya is most likely to end up permanently in her wolf. I could imagine getting a Nymeria chapter in the last book. That is what I'm looking foward too! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YOVMO Posted August 4, 2016 Share Posted August 4, 2016 15 hours ago, RumHam said: Yeah I think Arya is most likely to end up permanently in her wolf. I could imagine getting a Nymeria chapter in the last book. Other than what I imagine will be an amazing epilogue I can imagine no other POV for the last chapter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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