jurble Posted August 25, 2016 Share Posted August 25, 2016 It's a scifi book that deals with consciousness. The author is friends with Bakker. But it's the same usage as the wikipedia article. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PapushiSun Posted August 25, 2016 Share Posted August 25, 2016 1 hour ago, Damned with the Wind said: Kori explicitly describes in the Sranc, cause comes in, action comes out What is "Cause"? I never understood what Koringhus meant by the word. He uses it to describe other things such as sorcery. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PapushiSun Posted August 25, 2016 Share Posted August 25, 2016 7 hours ago, Happy Ent said: If I’m right then real humans (i.e., those on Earth, denizens of the Westeros forum) don’t have this neuroanatomical feature, since (after all) we don’t believe there is the “extra something”, certainly not in physically separate extra-complicated lump of brain tissue. My impression is that the Confluence describes an actual part of the human brain and not something fictional. Bakker seems to be well versed in neuroscience research. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sologdin Posted August 25, 2016 Share Posted August 25, 2016 p-zombies are structurally identical to socrates' arguments for the existence of the immortal soul in the phaedo--mere tautology. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Ent Posted August 28, 2016 Share Posted August 28, 2016 Re-read the Ishterebinth chapter, which I like very much. (We should do a systematic study of the symbolism surrounding depth and branching and emptiness and space, also in relation to the Ishual chapter.) But I have a less ambitious observation to report, at the danger of pointing out something obvious (or already discussed on a previous thread.) First, Quote The Lord of the Watch, who had ceded all sanity to the Dolour so long ago, hoisted the Son of Harweel slack, and then wrenched him in two. So I felt cheated when Sorweel appeared alive in the final scene, but the point is of course the following, from Serwä’s point of view: Quote She followed the fingers clasped about the emptiness of the thing, and saw Sorweel, his face blooded for flayed skin, his blue eyes fluttering as he strained to focus upon her… I missed it the first time, but the important thing in this description is that Sorweel is no longer wearing the Amiolas! So “wrenched him in two” might have been given as “pulled his head off,” but that would have been too obvious. Oirûnas has ripped Amiolas off Sorweel’s head, therefore flaying skin off his face, but leaving him otherwise quite hale. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sologdin Posted August 28, 2016 Share Posted August 28, 2016 exact same series of reactions here, HE. when i got to the second bit, i realized that wrenched in two referred to severing sorwa from immy. what had been mere fractions of one thing became again two individuated things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
karaddin Posted August 28, 2016 Share Posted August 28, 2016 I thought that was sufficiently obvious at the time I'd never have thought to comment on it, so I'm surprised the two of you read it differently. Just goes to show the different things that are obvious to different people, see me and the nuke. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Seswatha Jordan Posted August 28, 2016 Share Posted August 28, 2016 57 minutes ago, sologdin said: exact same series of reactions here, HE. when i got to the second bit, i realized that wrenched in two referred to severing sorwa from immy. what had been mere fractions of one thing became again two individuated things. I just wonder if a part of the Nonman within the Aimolos, is still part of Sorweel. Like he essentially has a apart of him that is Nonmen now, their souls have merged in a way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unJon Posted August 28, 2016 Share Posted August 28, 2016 5 minutes ago, Michael Seswatha Jordan said: I just wonder if a part of the Nonman within the Aimolos, is still part of Sorweel. Like he essentially has a apart of him that is Nonmen now, their souls have merged in a way. Possibly. One potential explanation for why Serwa sees Sorweel as Real at the end. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Ent Posted August 28, 2016 Share Posted August 28, 2016 1 hour ago, unJon said: Possibly. One potential explanation for why Serwa sees Sorweel as Real at the end. Oh, there’s a bunch of stuff going on with Sorweel. The Yatwer-glamour may no longer work (since I assume that Sorweel has lost his faith), so finally there is consistency between the Sorweel that Serwa sees and the Sorweel that she can figure out. Remember that until now, he has been a mystery to her, because of the incongruence of what he should feel, and what he obviously (but falsely) feels. Whether or not the ghoul-bucket has left an imprint I don’t know. How can it not, even if not magical? But the Amiolas was a very good authorial device. It makes sense that the Nonmen have some cool super-teaching device that they used during the Tutelage. And it’s a very good vessel for the massive information dump that Bakker needs to give us. Cute. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unJon Posted August 28, 2016 Share Posted August 28, 2016 @Happy Ent I think it has to be more than just the Yatwar spit wearing off. IIRC only Kelhus was ever Real to Serwa until Sorweel is described that way at the end. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Ent Posted August 28, 2016 Share Posted August 28, 2016 He makes her love. This will turn into a mushy romance novel yet! Kellhus saving Esmi, SorwaSerwa-shipping, Cnaiür and the-thing-called-Serwë… Love is for real souls. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jurble Posted August 28, 2016 Share Posted August 28, 2016 The basis of Serwa's considering herself and her father as the only Real things is Quote More importantly, she desired what she willed - and nothing more. which itself is based on her ignorance of the darkness that comes before. For some reason, she views herself and her father as Self-Moving Souls, and now, apparently, Sorweel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LuckyCharms Posted August 28, 2016 Share Posted August 28, 2016 18 minutes ago, Triskan said: Is Tsoronga or whatever the successor-prince's name is still up with the Ordeal? I don't think he was mentioned in TGO, but i could have missed it. So is Malo-demon headed to the follow the ordeal rather than back to Zeum if he needs to end the line as Kellhus commanded? Zsoronga wasn't mentioned at all in any of the Ordeal chapters. I hope he's okay, would be a waste of a good character if he just died of radiation poisoning offscreen. The first command was "return to the Palace of Plumes" then it was "end of the Line of Zeum" or whatever. So Zsoronga's pop is first on the list. I don't know how that demon is going to jetpack all over Earwa to fulfill his directives though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Ent Posted August 29, 2016 Share Posted August 29, 2016 Something else: Shall we now unite the fractions that are the spoiler-free and the spoiler thread? Out of two, one? Ere the TGO-free Bakker thread plunges ever deeper into darkness? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sologdin Posted August 29, 2016 Share Posted August 29, 2016 you want to pop an amiolas on these threads? what oinaral to sort them through? and what oirunas to wrench them apart? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lokisnow Posted August 30, 2016 Share Posted August 30, 2016 If we revive the last non spoiler thread I can update the thread title accordingly as I think I started it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Ent Posted August 30, 2016 Share Posted August 30, 2016 Revive, update title (in particular, subtitle), and first post. Make it so, lokis. Show us your father’s fraction. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Ent Posted August 30, 2016 Share Posted August 30, 2016 Meanwhile: What’s everybody’s take on how much Serwa and Moënghus know will happen? It is clear to me that Kellhus and Serwa assume that the Niom is a trap. But why does Serwa not want to teleport all the way to the Nonmansion? From her perspective, they’ll be taken prisoner upon arrival anyway, at which moment her leet metagnostic skills will be known. Or does she fear that the Quya just blast her to ashes if she appears as initially too powerful? And why worry about Sorweel not seeming sufficiently hostile? Does Serwa actually attach nonzero probability mass to the idea that the Nonmen are friendly? Does Moënghus know that extreme torture awaits? (Clearly Sorweel has no idea.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sologdin Posted August 30, 2016 Share Posted August 30, 2016 she needed to assess the dialectical antagonisms internal to ishterebinth, which required some dunyainy subterfuge therein? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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