Andriy Czarchenko Posted August 10, 2016 Share Posted August 10, 2016 16 minutes ago, Hereward said: The diving judging is absolutely fucking unbelievable. One of the Brazilians landed n his back without even doing the dive he was attemption and got a couple of 8.5s, a 7.5 and several 2.5s. When they dropped the extreme scores, they still got a 7.5. It's just cheating. Or more than likely it´s Hereward not understanding how the scoring actually works. Not that I do that well either Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigFatCoward Posted August 10, 2016 Share Posted August 10, 2016 2 hours ago, Criston of House Shapper said: Just out of curiousity, what are your sources for that table? it was on the bbc website, but it seems to have dropped off since we have won a few more medals today. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slick Mongoose Posted August 10, 2016 Share Posted August 10, 2016 The diving commentators are great at describing the diving but terrible at maths. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Criston of House Shapper Posted August 10, 2016 Share Posted August 10, 2016 So, Fiji is now close to their first medal ever, that's really amazing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HexMachina Posted August 10, 2016 Share Posted August 10, 2016 1 hour ago, Hereward said: The diving judging is absolutely fucking unbelievable. One of the Brazilians landed n his back without even doing the dive he was attemption and got a couple of 8.5s, a 7.5 and several 2.5s. When they dropped the extreme scores, they still got a 7.5. It's just cheating. I know very little about diving, and how it's judged, but I was pretty annoyed at the scores yesterday in the women's synchro. Some of them were way out of sync and had poor execution (or so I assume, since they were over/under rotating and entering the water at an angle) and still posting really solid scores compared to others who seemed to do much better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
themerchant Posted August 10, 2016 Share Posted August 10, 2016 19 minutes ago, Dr. Pepper said: Do you have the graphic of how common it is for people to say "The Mia Hamm of X sport"? I'm 99% sure it doesn't exist. That's pretty much the point of The Guardian article, and others like it. Women in sports just simply aren't acknowledged the same way as men. You aren't going to get "The Mia Hamm of Jujitsu" commentary because women's sports does not receive the type of coverage it takes for the audience to be aware of individual female athletes who are at the top of their sport. Or, more commonly, the audience is aware of top female athletes but it never dawns on anyone to use these female athletes as comparisons when describing the greatness of other athletes. Millions of people might know who Mia Hamm is, but no sports commentator is going to say random really good male athlete is the Mia Hamm of Taekwondo. No I don't. Looking at her record in finals (major tournaments) she has zero scoring titles not even a third place. Never won a golden/silver/bronze ball for 1st 2nd or 3rd best player at a world cup, and made one all star team as 4th forward. The achievements aren't commensurate. Now if you had said Serena Williams i'd be agreeing it's a good point in fact As i rarely hear her being used and she is as good as it gets. You picked the wrong sport, Ronda Rousey was used as the bench mark for dominance in Mixed Martial Arts. Meisha Tate and Amanda Nunes just headlined the biggest event in the sports history. So you do get the "Ronda Rousey of submissions" or the Joanna Jedrzejczyk of striking comparisons in the sport. However I can see what you're saying in general. I mostly watch combat sports. For about 18 months eventually every armbar would be compared to Rousey's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Pepper Posted August 10, 2016 Share Posted August 10, 2016 Re: the diving. I read recently that they score on a lot more than just acrobatics in the air or entry. What happens on the board, how high one gets off the board and the execution of the dives (even when synchro is off) makes up a large part of a score. 11 minutes ago, themerchant said: However I can see what you're saying in general. You get my point, you just didn't like the random well-known female athlete I used. Exactly the problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slick Mongoose Posted August 10, 2016 Share Posted August 10, 2016 Japan just beat the French to get into the 7's semi final. I'm hoping that somehow Japan, Fiji and GB all get medals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyoshi Posted August 10, 2016 Share Posted August 10, 2016 I've heard people use the term "the Serena Williams of such and such." Granted, they aren't commentators or journalists. But I agree that it takes a lot for female athletes to get the sort of recognition their male counterparts do. It's really unfortunate given the likes of Caster Semenya, Hope Solo and Marta. And now Hosszu, Simone Biles and all the others. 9 minutes ago, HelenaExMachina said: I know very little about diving, and how it's judged, but I was pretty annoyed at the scores yesterday in the women's synchro. Some of them were way out of sync and had poor execution (or so I assume, since they were over/under rotating and entering the water at an angle) and still posting really solid scores compared to others who seemed to do much better. I honestly think there's inherent bias in the judged sports. In gymnastics, the Japanese guy who's the reigning champion (I think) wasn't particularly impressive in my humble opinion. The Cuban guy--Manrique, was far more to my liking. But the commentators kept mentioning the champion's past glories and it seemed to me that because he's been historically brilliant, excellence is automatically expected from him. Even when he messes up, somehow it can be explained. The judges are only human, after all, and I expect them to have personal idols in these things. Same with synchronised diving. I was genuinely impressed by Wu Minxia and her diving partner. But after that, the Chinese pairs just didn't perform, at least in my eyes, as brilliantly as the scores reflected, and the score disparities shouldn't have been as wide as was ultimately the case. One judge gave a Chinese team a perfect execution score while others gave them really low ones. Before the scores appeared, the commentators had criticised the execution, so that perfect score really stood out and it was sort of awkward. But with all of that, I concede I'm not an expert on either sport and am therfore willing to further concede the judges may have been correct in their scores. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slick Mongoose Posted August 10, 2016 Share Posted August 10, 2016 Phew, that was a tense one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ljkeane Posted August 10, 2016 Share Posted August 10, 2016 Well that might be the most attritional game of sevens I've ever seen, it certainly had the most kicking for territory, but a win's a win. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyoshi Posted August 10, 2016 Share Posted August 10, 2016 I don't even know if it's live but the Blitz Bokke have me on my feet right now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slick Mongoose Posted August 10, 2016 Share Posted August 10, 2016 South Africa have a cracking team there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
themerchant Posted August 10, 2016 Share Posted August 10, 2016 3 minutes ago, Dr. Pepper said: You get my point I do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slick Mongoose Posted August 10, 2016 Share Posted August 10, 2016 Fiji vs Japan in the semi finals, one of them certain for at least silver. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyoshi Posted August 10, 2016 Share Posted August 10, 2016 That was amazing. Really glad South Africa won. I'll go to sleep very happy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HexMachina Posted August 10, 2016 Share Posted August 10, 2016 1 hour ago, Kyoshi said: I've heard people use the term "the Serena Williams of such and such." Granted, they aren't commentators or journalists. But I agree that it takes a lot for female athletes to get the sort of recognition their male counterparts do. It's really unfortunate given the likes of Caster Semenya, Hope Solo and Marta. And now Hosszu, Simone Biles and all the others. I honestly think there's inherent bias in the judged sports. In gymnastics, the Japanese guy who's the reigning champion (I think) wasn't particularly impressive in my humble opinion. The Cuban guy--Manrique, was far more to my liking. But the commentators kept mentioning the champion's past glories and it seemed to me that because he's been historically brilliant, excellence is automatically expected from him. Even when he messes up, somehow it can be explained. The judges are only human, after all, and I expect them to have personal idols in these things. Same with synchronised diving. I was genuinely impressed by Wu Minxia and her diving partner. But after that, the Chinese pairs just didn't perform, at least in my eyes, as brilliantly as the scores reflected, and the score disparities shouldn't have been as wide as was ultimately the case. One judge gave a Chinese team a perfect execution score while others gave them really low ones. Before the scores appeared, the commentators had criticised the execution, so that perfect score really stood out and it was sort of awkward. But with all of that, I concede I'm not an expert on either sport and am therfore willing to further concede the judges may have been correct in their scores. With the gymnastics I understand the judging a bit more. A gymnast can have a sloppier routine and still win, because (particularly with the former champions) their start value is so high. So they start with a 10.0 and then they add onto that score a difficulty value (say, 5.3) which depends on what tumbles, leaps and connections they put in the routine. So in the commentary (in the Uk at least) where they say "blah blah blah....D element" that refers to the difficulty value of the move. You don't lose points from your difficulty value (unless you didn't complete the move properly, for example not managing to land the feet first, in which case they can't count the move as completed) but you lose points from the 10.0 for execution. Major penalties are for stepping out of the floor, other deductions are for things like poor shape, being offline in your tumbles and so on. So quite often what you'll find is someone will do a simpler routine wi a low difficulty value, and lose very few points on execution, but they can't get high enough scores to beat the top gymnasts. That's why you tend to get the same few gymnasts in medal contention, they are the ones with the high difficulty values. Commentators usually do have favourites, but I do think they try to be fair as much as they can. I don't think the judges tend to be biased in favour of former champions though Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyoshi Posted August 10, 2016 Share Posted August 10, 2016 13 minutes ago, HelenaExMachina said: With the gymnastics I understand the judging a bit more. A gymnast can have a sloppier routine and still win, because (particularly with the former champions) their start value is so high. So they start with a 10.0 and then they add onto that score a difficulty value (say, 5.3) which depends on what tumbles, leaps and connections they put in the routine. So in the commentary (in the Uk at least) where they say "blah blah blah....D element" that refers to the difficulty value of the move. You don't lose points from your difficulty value (unless you didn't complete the move properly, for example not managing to land the feet first, in which case they can't count the move as completed) but you lose points from the 10.0 for execution. Major penalties are for stepping out of the floor, other deductions are for things like poor shape, being offline in your tumbles and so on. So quite often what you'll find is someone will do a simpler routine wi a low difficulty value, and lose very few points on execution, but they can't get high enough scores to beat the top gymnasts. That's why you tend to get the same few gymnasts in medal contention, they are the ones with the high difficulty values. Commentators usually do have favourites, but I do think they try to be fair as much as they can. I don't think the judges tend to be biased in favour of former champions though That makes sense in a way. Thanks a lot. I wish I got into the sport before the games started because it's honestly been the highlight for me so far. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spockydog Posted August 10, 2016 Share Posted August 10, 2016 Out of all the events, I think I've enjoyed diving the most. The BBC commentary team have been excellent. Have to agree with those questioning the judges. Some very strange scores have been awarded over the past few days. I thought something fishy might be going on when I saw the Chinese were still 1/10 to win after 3 rounds tonight. Naturally, I stuck a fiver on the plucky Brits at a ridiculously overpriced 10/1. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slick Mongoose Posted August 10, 2016 Share Posted August 10, 2016 The USA - Australia basketball match is great, Aussies up at half time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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