balerionsteel.

Despite what fans want, his parentage is..irrelevant.

22 posts in this topic

I have become increasingly convinced that Jon's parentage will be absolutely irrelevant to everyone involved in the story besides the viewers. The evidence, even with an unseen witness such as how land appearing, it spotty at best for the realm to get behind. And what purpose will it serve him? He is already King in the North. He is already the most likely candidate for dany to marry for political gain, to unite the realm either for political purposes or against the WW. At that point, without knowing his parentage he will be king of westeros. 

The only time his parentage will come into play whatsoever is during the battle of the WW bran will tell him what he has seen. Jon will be very skeptical of this as it will rock his world, until a critical moment during battle and Jon finally owns it and hops on one of the available dragons to head into battle. In fact knowing his parentage can only turn him off from marrying dany.  

This is known.(not really) 

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I agree. At this point the half confirmation only fuels further fan fiction theories.

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On 8/4/2016 at 6:51 PM, balerionsteel. said:

I have become increasingly convinced that Jon's parentage will be absolutely irrelevant to everyone involved in the story besides the viewers. The evidence, even with an unseen witness such as how land appearing, it spotty at best for the realm to get behind. And what purpose will it serve him? He is already King in the North. He is already the most likely candidate for dany to marry for political gain, to unite the realm either for political purposes or against the WW. At that point, without knowing his parentage he will be king of westeros. 

The only time his parentage will come into play whatsoever is during the battle of the WW bran will tell him what he has seen. Jon will be very skeptical of this as it will rock his world, until a critical moment during battle and Jon finally owns it and hops on one of the available dragons to head into battle. In fact knowing his parentage can only turn him off from marrying dany.  

This is known.(not really) 

My understanding is that Jon's heritage is part of what almost certainly makes him Azhor Ahai, the Prince That Was Promised.

My understanding is that this is what connects him to prophecy, and will allow him to fulfill prophecy, and will thus VERY likely be critical in the end.

Even if Jon is somehow NOT The Prince That Was Promised (and it seems very unlikely to me that he is not), his parentage is still important b/c it makes him, quite likely, the heir to the Iron Throne, assuming he was born "trueborn" or "legitimate," meaning Rhaegar and Lyanna were married.  (By the way, the possibility that they were married is not AT ALL far fetched.  Some Targaryens had multiple wives, most notably Aegon I and Maegor, as I recall.  Rhaegar did not even need to "get divorced" or anything, even though he was already married to Elia Martell.  All he had to do was marry Lyanna too, and presto, Jon is the legitimate heir of the Seven Kingdoms)

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Another thing that's important. Targaryens, at least some of them, seem to have some sort of magical powers. Immunity to fire. Semi control of Dragons. Jon may be the third dragon rider. Also, at some point they may need to do some kind of massive fire attack on the WW's and he may be immune to it like Dany, which could be handy.

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11 hours ago, Martell Spy said:

Another thing that's important. Targaryens, at least some of them, seem to have some sort of magical powers. Immunity to fire. Semi control of Dragons. Jon may be the third dragon rider. Also, at some point they may need to do some kind of massive fire attack on the WW's and he may be immune to it like Dany, which could be handy.

Great points.

In fact, it's interesting to note that it seems nearly all Westeros families lack "powers" except for the Starks and Targaryens (and for them "powers" seem fairly common), while Jon almost definitely has one of each for a parent.  (The only non-Starks and non-Targaryens in Westeros I can think of offhand with "powers" are Jojen Reed and possibly the original 3 Eyed Raven, Brynden, whose last name I'm unsure of.  Am I forgetting anybody?)

Edited by Cron

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 Am I forgetting anybody?

 

Qyburn and the Mage. Although they seem to be more trained powers than born with it. And a couple red priests wandering around.

Oh, I just remembered. The pyromancers of King's Landing. With magic users stronger with the return of dragons, they may be getting more powerful.

Edited by Martell Spy

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On ‎8‎/‎6‎/‎2016 at 2:18 PM, Martell Spy said:

Another thing that's important. Targaryens, at least some of them, seem to have some sort of magical powers. Immunity to fire. Semi control of Dragons. Jon may be the third dragon rider. Also, at some point they may need to do some kind of massive fire attack on the WW's and he may be immune to it like Dany, which could be handy.

As far as I'm aware, they are not immune to fire. High resistance, and can certainly handle the heat better then most, but they are not immune. Even the Targaryen custom was to hold a funeral pyre for their dead. Dany and the dragons were a one shot thing.

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For the show, I think the only aspect of his parentage that will be important is a connection to Dany.

At this point, I am leaning towards Jon is the acknowledged son of Rhaegar, but not legitimate.  As such, Dany will still maintain her right to the throne, but won't behead her bastard-nephew for declaring as King in the North.  Also with the familial connection (toss in there Tyrion's opinion of Jon), Dany will also listen to Jon when talking about Others/WW issue.  I think this will have side effects of Dnay not burning the Stacks to the ground for their part with the Usurper.  I also think this is when Varys will speak up about Ned not wanting to send the assassin.

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If your talking about in terms of heir to the throne (without conquest first), it means nothing.

 

But for all matters important, it means everything.

For starters the fulfillment of prophecy and how it will effect the ability for John to get them to rally to his cause.

with an invading army well on it's way down south, it doesn't hurt to have it be known that Jon is Dany's cousin. It makes it that much easier for Dany to come to Jon's aid. Down to a "t" almost everyone now surrounding Dany at least respect Jon/the starks,

But most importantly it will effect Jon himself, give him a sense of purpose and belief in himself. Something he was severely lacking in season 7.

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Dying will do that to you....

4 minutes ago, Ice Spider said:

If your talking about in terms of heir to the throne (without conquest first), it means nothing.

 

But for all matters important, it means everything.

For starters the fulfillment of prophecy and how it will effect the ability for John to get them to rally to his cause.

with an invading army well on it's way down south, it doesn't hurt to have it be known that Jon is Dany's cousin. It makes it that much easier for Dany to come to Jon's aid. Down to a "t" almost everyone now surrounding Dany at least respect Jon/the starks,

But most importantly it will effect Jon himself, give him a sense of purpose and belief in himself. Something he was severely lacking in season 7.

Dying will do that to you; it's a real bummer.

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3 minutes ago, JonBranRickon said:

Dying will do that to you....

Dying will do that to you; it's a real bummer.

LOL, but coming back from the dead, and a sense of immortality, somewhat negates that fact. I don't think it's the dying part that bothers Jon, as much as at whos hands it happened by (his brothers).

Edited by Ice Spider

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Good point; but he did die so he knows he is not immortal.  I'm still wondering when he's going to start to think with his mind and not his heart.   He and Sansa seem to be on a long maturation arch. 

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On 8/6/2016 at 2:18 PM, Martell Spy said:

Another thing that's important. Targaryens, at least some of them, seem to have some sort of magical powers. Immunity to fire. Semi control of Dragons. Jon may be the third dragon rider. Also, at some point they may need to do some kind of massive fire attack on the WW's and he may be immune to it like Dany, which could be handy.

Targaryens are not immuned to fire. Aerion Brightflame died drinking wildfire. In the first season Jon grabs Jeor's lamp to throw at the wight and it burnt him (he screams in pain as he throws it). For some reason in the show Dany is "special" and can withstand great amounts of heat and she can most likely still burn if the fire is hot enough, but this is not the case in the books, she is not immuned to fire in the books. Her walking into the pyre, not burning to death and hatching the dragons was a magical event, remember "Only death can pay for life". Did we all forget about Viserys in season 1/book 1 or something? Look what happened to him.

Edited by Adam_Up_Bxtch

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On ‎07‎/‎08‎/‎2016 at 7:09 AM, Cron said:

Great points.

In fact, it's interesting to note that it seems nearly all Westeros families lack "powers" except for the Starks and Targaryens (and for them "powers" seem fairly common), while Jon almost definitely has one of each for a parent.  (The only non-Starks and non-Targaryens in Westeros I can think of offhand with "powers" are Jojen Reed and possibly the original 3 Eyed Raven, Brynden, whose last name I'm unsure of.  Am I forgetting anybody?)

Most of the major families are of Andal ancestry which generally seems to be "unmagical", the faith of the seven for example shows no kind of supernatural ability and generally is painted as rather like protestant Christianity where the whole notion of faith would be that it shouldn't need such proof.

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20 hours ago, Adam_Up_Bxtch said:

Targaryens are not immuned to fire. Aerion Brightflame died drinking wildfire. In the first season Jon grabs Jeor's lamp to throw at the wight and it burnt him (he screams in pain as he throws it). For some reason in the show Dany is "special" and can withstand great amounts of heat and she can most likely still burn if the fire is hot enough, but this is not the case in the books, she is not immuned to fire in the books. Her walking into the pyre, not burning to death and hatching the dragons was a magical event, remember "Only death can pay for life". Did we all forget about Viserys in season 1/book 1 or something? Look what happened to him.

The show seems to present immunity to fire not as an automatic ability Targaryen's have but rather something that can potentially manifest in certain individuals from the bloodline, perhaps dependant also on there mental strength?

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I suspect it has more to do with Dragon hatching.  If you follow Mendel's basic genetics, you will quickly discern why Brightflame died and why Dany would not.  But wildfire and fire are two different things.   I may not drown in a tub of ice but could drown in a tub of water.

 

 

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2 hours ago, JonBranRickon said:

I suspect it has more to do with Dragon hatching.  If you follow Mendel's basic genetics, you will quickly discern why Brightflame died and why Dany would not.  But wildfire and fire are two different things.   I may not drown in a tub of ice but could drown in a tub of water.

 

 

On its own fire is even more deadly than water and ice, and even Wildfire. Unless you have fire or a hot substance (your stomach acid, or your urine) to set it off Wildifre is pretty much just weird green water that'll just sit there. If this is a comparison we could make. Fire burns you while also suffocating you if you're trapped in a small space with it. A lot of people who die in fires die from suffocation (as fire requires oxygen to burn and it'd create a vacuum where there is literally no air) before they are even touched by the fire itself, which is why they tell you to stay close to the floor in cases of house fires. Dany's skin may be fireproof but that doesn't mean she can just go without oxygen, which is what the fire would literally take right out of the space around her.

Edited by Adam_Up_Bxtch

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On 8/10/2016 at 10:36 AM, MoreOrLess said:

The show seems to present immunity to fire not as an automatic ability Targaryen's have but rather something that can potentially manifest in certain individuals from the bloodline, perhaps dependant also on there mental strength?

Book Dany does not seem to to be immune to fire/getting burnt in general, the dragon hatching does seem to be a magical outlier in that.  She has blisters later in the book from heat.  Show Dany does seem to be fire resistant though. 

As others have said, Jon Snow in both book and show burned his hand when saving LC Mormont.  So obviously so far in either medium he is not immune to fire like show Dany seems to be.

So I agree, it does seem that being fire proof/resistant is something the show has done for Dany to set her apart from other people.

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Let's hope it prevents them from marrying.

 

but yeah, it isn't going to give him a recognized claim to the Iron Throne. Instead It fulfills the prophecy.

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If his parentage was truly irrelevant, then why bother including it in the story at all, much less make it the biggest mystery of the series and keeping the one person alive in Westeros who knows the truth (Howland) hidden this entire time? What's the point?

There's no way there isn't some kind of payout. Most likely it has to do with him being TPTWP, riding a dragon, and building a relationship between him and Daenerys (maybe marriage). 

I mean, the series is called 'A Song of Ice and Fire' and Jon is literally the only person in the entire series that is Ice and Fire. 

Who his parents really are should also matter to the Northerners. It'd finally explain why the honorful Ned Stark had a moment of weakness and shamed his wife by bringin home a bastard. It'd matter to the Northerners if the King they're following is really a Targaryen (although, I believe in the end, Jon will chose the name Stark and remain in the North). And, should they ever meet again (doubtful), it'd matter to Lady Stoneheart. 

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