Khal BlackfyreO

Why would Cersei off Pycelle?

36 posts in this topic

5 hours ago, Rhollo said:

I agree with that, but for some reason I still want to give them credit for actually putting more thought into their writing and what that thought could have been.

The conclusion that they are deliberately building this potemkin village of a story with superficial, meaningless scenes with no value to (and sometimes even damaging) the narrative, is just so disappointing.

I can understand that and quite often I try to do the same thing, but there is still some stuff that's too illogical to make any sense like Arya running parcours only two or three days after she has been stabbed into the stomach repeatedly. 

In general I believe that it makes a lot of sense for Cersei to have Pycelle killed, because she always hated him and because he was never loyal to her. What doesn't make a lot of sense is the way in which he is killed, she could have just allowed him to go to the sept and die there like everyone else. 

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The answer is, she disposed of Pycelle because he was one of a very few people which include Jamie, Tyrion and Cersai, who knew about the wild fire left under the city by the mad king. 

Nobody else knows.

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Simple, Cersei didn't kill Pycelle, Qyburn did. He wanted to make sure that he was the only Maester Cersei could turn to for advice.

The whole point of Cersei's destruction of the sept was to eliminate all and any rivals. Pycelle couldn't be trusted to support her new regime.

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On ‎10‎/‎19‎/‎2016 at 10:22 AM, Lady of Whisperers said:

I can understand that and quite often I try to do the same thing, but there is still some stuff that's too illogical to make any sense like Arya running parcours only two or three days after she has been stabbed into the stomach repeatedly. 

In general I believe that it makes a lot of sense for Cersei to have Pycelle killed, because she always hated him and because he was never loyal to her. What doesn't make a lot of sense is the way in which he is killed, she could have just allowed him to go to the sept and die there like everyone else. 

As far as I can recall, Arya was stabbed once, though it would have seemed to be pretty serious. 

I am not too sure that Pycelle was guaranteed to arrive soon enough to suffer the same fate as everyone else.  It does make sense for Cersei to have a special condition for his death, and it seems like there might be some tie-in to the end game that he be stabbed to death by the "Little Birds".  The reason for Cersei to pay special attention to Pycelle, is related to his having Tommen's ear before Cersei's council.  She has become very jealous of his hold on Tommen over the last few episodes.  She also manages to have a special going away party for Septa Ulna.  "Shame.  Shame.  Shame."  ;)

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It's pretty clear both in the books and on the show that Cersei can't stand Pycelle, stemming back to the Robert Small Council days.

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On 08/11/2016 at 10:10 AM, MtnLion said:

As far as I can recall, Arya was stabbed once, though it would have seemed to be pretty serious. 

I am not too sure that Pycelle was guaranteed to arrive soon enough to suffer the same fate as everyone else.  It does make sense for Cersei to have a special condition for his death, and it seems like there might be some tie-in to the end game that he be stabbed to death by the "Little Birds".  The reason for Cersei to pay special attention to Pycelle, is related to his having Tommen's ear before Cersei's council.  She has become very jealous of his hold on Tommen over the last few episodes.  She also manages to have a special going away party for Septa Ulna.  "Shame.  Shame.  Shame."  ;)

She was definitely stabbed more than once. She was slashed, stabbed twice and then the second stab was twisted for good measure. A great way to ensure death when you stab someone in the abdomen is to twist.

I'm cynical so I think they just had Pycelle stabbed because it was meant to be one of those 'omg they did the thing from the books!' moments. Qyburn seemed almost apologetic for his death (much like Varys and Kevan) and I don't think he decided to stab him independently, although nothing would surprise me. There's no reason for him to die like that instead of in the sept unless she wanted him to suffer other than to make it a book reference/shocking death scene.

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On 27 October 2016 at 0:56 PM, hallam said:

Simple, Cersei didn't kill Pycelle, Qyburn did. He wanted to make sure that he was the only Maester Cersei could turn to for advice.

The whole point of Cersei's destruction of the sept was to eliminate all and any rivals. Pycelle couldn't be trusted to support her new regime.

I think that this explanation makes a lot of sense. Qyburn is Cersei's Hand, and his authority is tenuous due to the Citadel having rejected him. Pycelle is a Lannister Loyalist, but Cersei found him quite independent nonetheless, and she wanted sycophants.

Pycelle had his limits - he angrily rejected Qyburn at every opportunity, finding his experiments unethical and disgraceful to his works as a maester. He'd have been intolerant of his position as Hand. He may not have been able to do much about it on his own, but enough resistance from a well-respected Maestar of the Citadel would go a long way in disrupting Cersei's rule.

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Pycelle knew too much. I refer to the conversation, or interrogation between him and Tyrion in season 2. That and Pycell was  loyal to Tywin not to Cercei. 

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On 20.10.2016 at 11:40 PM, cylonhybrid said:

The answer is, she disposed of Pycelle because he was one of a very few people which include Jamie, Tyrion and Cersai, who knew about the wild fire left under the city by the mad king. 

Nobody else knows.

Exactly, he could have put two and two together in the sept, backed up Marge's intuition and endangered the plan. This really is no logical flaw.

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On 20.10.2016 at 11:40 PM, cylonhybrid said:

The answer is, she disposed of Pycelle because he was one of a very few people which include Jamie, Tyrion and Cersai, who knew about the wild fire left under the city by the mad king. 

Nobody else knows.

Are there any hints that Pycelle knew of the secret wildfire stashes or are you just assuming that ? Same with Tyrion.

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On August 5, 2016 at 1:21 PM, dbunting said:

Have to disagree with you on this. She resigned herself to the fact that Tommen was going to die because of the prophecy. She already had her crown and gown being made before he died. She knew exactly what would happen, just not the how of it.

With Margaery dead, Cersei would have ruled as Regent through Tommen.  Tommen dying was not part of her plan, imo. She prevented Tommen from attending the Sept. She should have kept someone inside his room to look after him. Cersei wanted her crown made so that she could rule as Regent.

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On ‎2‎/‎4‎/‎2017 at 3:32 PM, ValrianSunni said:

With Margaery dead, Cersei would have ruled as Regent through Tommen.  Tommen dying was not part of her plan, imo. She prevented Tommen from attending the Sept. She should have kept someone inside his room to look after him. Cersei wanted her crown made so that she could rule as Regent.

I can see your point, she did keep Tommen at the Red Keep.

IMO, this was just so she could plausibly deny involvement in his death. She already had her black gown and crown being made. And was not in any way in shock when she heard of his death.

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On 8/5/2016 at 1:21 PM, dbunting said:

Have to disagree with you on this. She resigned herself to the fact that Tommen was going to die because of the prophecy. She already had her crown and gown being made before he died. She knew exactly what would happen, just not the how of it.

I agree. 

On 8/5/2016 at 0:08 PM, MtnLion said:

It might be worth re-watching a few episodes.  Take note of who is with King Tommen when Cersei is trying to bend him to her will.  Tommen is listening to Pycelle, and Cersei wants control of Tommen back.  Therefore Pycelle must die.  The rest of Cersei's plan was to burn the High Septon and his minions, but Tommen was depressed and jumped out a window after Pycelle had been killed.  Cersei never planned to take the crown, that was an afterthought when Tommen committed suicide. 

I agree about Pycelle. It was for Tynan, her own loyal servent, and general power including over Tommen, should he live. 

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On 8/8/2016 at 0:30 PM, MtnLion said:

I can't really buy into such a line of reasoning.  "It was foretold that my son will die", so what is the logical thing to do?  Resign yourself to it, or fight against it. 

I think this survivor powerful attitude is usually her MO, and she was that way after Joff died. But then when Myrcella died too, she said explicitly in season 6 that it was fate and she believed it then. She asked about her veil, gold or red, and wasnt surprised it was goal, still seeking confirmation hoping it's not true but at that point she believed it. Also, she then became very distant with Tommen. There were moments she was an emotional mom again but mostly more deadpan even with him. 

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On 10/17/2016 at 6:48 PM, cylonhybrid said:

I think before you judge Pycelle, you should see this deleted scene between himself and Tywin Lannister. It completely changes what Pycelle is all about. Notice, he does not really answer Tywins question about Lannister support and foreshadows Pycelles demise seasons before with the Sept of Baelor reference.

 

WHAT episode is this? I've never seen it on HBOnow or HBOgo in the US

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