Vary's end game REVEALED

[Adam_Up_Bxtch]

2 minutes ago, Cron said:

Very interesting, and I understand it's not 100 percent confirmed either way.

Maybe Young Griff/Aegon is all really just a red herring.  Seems like a pretty elaborate and extensive ruse for a trail that leads...nowhere, though.  If Young Griff is not Rhaegar's son, the entire sub-plot strikes me as almost a whole bunch of wasted space and pages, particularly in light of what actually IS going on with SO many other characters.  But maybe that's it, maybe GRRM was just looking to fill pages with an extensive sub-plot which will never amount to anything of consequence.

I suppose that's possible.

Well George's world is and has been shown to be massive, it makes sense that there'd be other things going on besides the main plot lines. Plus who knows Aegon may be a fake but he may have some lasting consequence on the end game for certain characters.

[Cron]

20 minutes ago, Adam_Up_Bxtch said:

Well George's world is and has been shown to be massive, it makes sense that there'd be other things going on besides the main plot lines. Plus who knows Aegon may be a fake but he may have some lasting consequence on the end game for certain characters.

Maybe, maybe not, I suppose.

Quentyn Martell's story was an EXTENSIVE sub-plot, chapter after chapter after chapter, that went...nowhere.  He got to Meereen, got crisped, The End.

Who know, maybe we ARE going to find out that Young Griff's story is basically the same thing.

[A spoon of knife and fork]

17 hours ago, Stannis is the man....nis said:

This is Dany when has anything gone that wrong for her? The better explanation is D&D are just merging Aegon with Dany and just putting Varys on her team as opposed to Aegon

Come on, really?

1.  Mother dies in childbirth. Banished from her home at age 1.

2. Raised by abusive brother after caretaker dies when she's like 6. 

3. Sold into sexual slavery (aka "marriage") by said brother 

4. Raped on her wedding night

5. Brother killed by husband for being a drunk asshole at the wrong place/time

6. Husband dies from infected scratch

7. Trusts the wrong medicine woman and thus her son dies in a ritual meant to save her husband. 

8. Forced to euthanize her own husband because he's a useless zombie now

9. Half her followers die of thirst in a desert trek

10. The other half of her followers are murdered and her dragons are stolen

11. Multiple assassination attempts

12. Turns out the one guy she thought she could trust was spying on her from the day they met

I could go on.  This is the silliest of all claims.  

[Westerosi Coast Gangster]

don't know if it's been said but only the brave companions have been called the bloody mummers.

[jamprab]

38 minutes ago, Westerosi Coast Gangster said:

don't know if it's been said but only the brave companions have been called the bloody mummers.

I just edited that out after verifying it.  Thanks for the heads up.  Do you know where The Brave Companions were before Westeros?

[Westerosi Coast Gangster]

essos I believe. Vargo Hoat has coins from all the lands he fought in made in a necklace. from a Jamie chapter in ASOS I believe.

[A Ghost of Someone]

If Varys wanted the Targs restored and there is no Blackfyre family on the show then what did he not arrange Marge Tyrell to marry Viserys and Tyrstane (Fabio Jr) to marry Dany? Instead a Dothraki Khal who leads vast armies who are scared of the sea. Keep in mind that the Dragons did not exist yet.

[Elisabetta Duò]

On 7 agosto 2016 at 2:53 AM, Adam_Up_Bxtch said:

 

I think the whole reason Young Griff/Aegon was not introduced into the show and Varys was just made into a clear Dany supporter is because D&D are cutting all the side stories that they feel won't having any huge affect on the end game

 

Agreed. I kinda liked Young Griff but if he (or his family) were to be alive and/or play a relevant role in the end, he wouldn't be cut off the show.

On 6 agosto 2016 at 3:34 AM, jamprab said:

Varys constantly shaves his head.  Why?  How many completely shaven heads are there among the shows characters?

If I'm not mistaken in the show it's unclear whether Varys shaves his head or he's bald.. for sure he doesn't have body hair (Tyrion teases him saying "spoken as a man who never had to shave" after Varys talked about a razor: 6x08).

Not saying Varys can't be a Targ or a Targ related character: just that show Varys (and likely book Varys too) doesn't want the throne for himself.

In the show (and maybe in the books too, even if they're way more grey and subtle...we'll see how TWoW deals with Varys), it seems to me that Varys represents 'Order' and Littlefinger represents 'Chaos'. Order is mainly a 'good' force in that universe, often linked with peace, except that at times it sounds too much as 'restoration' and 'status quo', while 'Chaos' is mainly an evil force in that universe, often linked with war and extreme individualism, except that it may help social mobility (not alwas for the good). Of course you can have a little bit of social mobility also with Order (Davos) and you can have 'bad' social mobility with Chaos (men like Littlefinger raising to power). I guess Order is gonna prevail in the end.. but not entirely, so that Westeros as a society is going to change somehow (not in any abrupt way, there will be no Republic and no too sudden changes, but there will be changes, stones that will lead to a different social structure and a different role of the players - men and women, highborns and lowborns, etc. - on the chessboard in the following centuries). Even if I doubt Littlefinger will be there to see it.

[jamprab]

On 8/8/2016 at 8:31 PM, Elisabetta Duò said:

Agreed. I kinda liked Young Griff but if he (or his family) were to be alive and/or play a relevant role in the end, he wouldn't be cut off the show.

If I'm not mistaken in the show it's unclear whether Varys shaves his head or he's bald.. for sure he doesn't have body hair (Tyrion teases him saying "spoken as a man who never had to shave" after Varys talked about a razor: 6x08).

Not saying Varys can't be a Targ or a Targ related character: just that show Varys (and likely book Varys too) doesn't want the throne for himself.

In the show (and maybe in the books too, even if they're way more grey and subtle...we'll see how TWoW deals with Varys), it seems to me that Varys represents 'Order' and Littlefinger represents 'Chaos'. Order is mainly a 'good' force in that universe, often linked with peace, except that at times it sounds too much as 'restoration' and 'status quo', while 'Chaos' is mainly an evil force in that universe, often linked with war and extreme individualism, except that it may help social mobility (not alwas for the good). Of course you can have a little bit of social mobility also with Order (Davos) and you can have 'bad' social mobility with Chaos (men like Littlefinger raising to power). I guess Order is gonna prevail in the end.. but not entirely, so that Westeros as a society is going to change somehow (not in any abrupt way, there will be no Republic and no too sudden changes, but there will be changes, stones that will lead to a different social structure and a different role of the players - men and women, highborns and lowborns, etc. - on the chessboard in the following centuries). Even if I doubt Littlefinger will be there to see it.

Elisabetta, check out the scene in Varys apartment with the crate again.  The scene is 4:05 long.  From 3:06-3:17 Varys stares into a mirror while speaking with Tyrion.   Varys apartment is spotless, but the mirror is very foggy all around the edges.  The part that is clear is just big enough for a face.  As the camera draws level so we can see Varys reflection as he sees it you can see why he's left it foggy.  The reflection looks like Varys with silver hair.  Bear in mind it's his apartment and his mirror.  Why would he leave it that way?  I tried to point it out in a post but it was removed by Stubby for some pretense.

[Elisabetta Duò]

1 hour ago, jamprab said:

Elisabetta, check out the scene in Varys apartment with the crate again.  The scene is 4:05 long.  From 3:06-3:17 Varys stares into a mirror while speaking with Tyrion.   Varys apartment is spotless, but the mirror is very foggy all around the edges.  The part that is clear is just big enough for a face.  As the camera draws level so we can see Varys reflection as he sees it you can see why he's left it foggy.  The reflection looks like Varys with silver hair.  Bear in mind it's his apartment and his mirror.  Why would he leave it that way?  I tried to point it out in a post but it was removed by Stubby for some pretense.

Which season and episode is this?

[A Ghost of Someone]

The Blackfyres are not on the show and I do not think have ever been mentioned. The show runners started that possibility with Arya overhearing in the Dungeons of the Red Keep, in Season 1, Varys and Illyrio speaking about Ned is going to "find out" something, Dany being pregnant and Drogo not moving until his son is born. Then, Illyrio has been mentioned, we have seen his place but he has not shown up again and Dany is headed to Westeros with everyone and no mention of Blackfyres. This kind narrows show Varys's purpose. I suppose that we could say that he was behind or hoping for a Rheagar supplanting his father, Aerys The Mad King but then the Rebellion happend and he became disheartened by Robert and Cersei which on the show led him to want to bring Viserys back as they tried to keep him going with Dany and Drogo, maybe to match him with someone like Margeary.

Now look, I am really going in a different direction with Varys and I am not trying to give the show too much credit but trying, for fun sake to come up with a somewhat logical explanation of why Varys has done what he has since he started serving the Mad King before Robert's rebellion even started.

Note: He advised Aerys The Mad King not to open the gates to Tywin Lannister but Pycelle advised to do so, the Mad King followed Pycelle and not Varys and we know what happened. It is surprising to me that Varys was not executed or exiled after Robert's Rebellion or even after Tywin, after the Blackwater took over as Hand of the King, books and show. Oh well.

[CrypticWeirwood]

On August 7, 2016 at 0:36 PM, Cron said:

Very interesting, and I understand it's not 100 percent confirmed either way.

Maybe Young Griff/Aegon is all really just a red herring.  Seems like a pretty elaborate and extensive ruse for a trail that leads...nowhere, though.  If Young Griff is not Rhaegar's son, the entire sub-plot strikes me as almost a whole bunch of wasted space and pages, particularly in light of what actually IS going on with SO many other characters.  But maybe that's it, maybe GRRM was just looking to fill pages with an extensive sub-plot which will never amount to anything of consequence.

I suppose that's possible.

With that pelt, his true name is Shaggy Griff. Just has shaggy a dog story as Rickon’s.

[CrypticWeirwood]

7 hours ago, jamprab said:

Elisabetta, check out the scene in Varys apartment with the crate again.  The scene is 4:05 long.  From 3:06-3:17 Varys stares into a mirror while speaking with Tyrion.   Varys apartment is spotless, but the mirror is very foggy all around the edges.  The part that is clear is just big enough for a face.  As the camera draws level so we can see Varys reflection as he sees it you can see why he's left it foggy.  The reflection looks like Varys with silver hair.  Bear in mind it's his apartment and his mirror.  Why would he leave it that way?  I tried to point it out in a post but it was removed by Stubby for some pretense.

Wow, you’re right!

[Cron]

6 minutes ago, CrypticWeirwood said:

With that pelt, his true name is Shaggy Griff. Just has shaggy a dog story as Rickon’s.

Yeah.

I was saddened by the show's omission of Griff, Young Griff and others on that boat.  I was looking forward to seeing them on the show, they seemed like fun people, and I thought, upon reading ADWD, they had a big role to play in the future.

Guess not, at least not on the show, unless they are going to suddenly storm into the picture (which would be pretty odd at this point).

[Adam_Up_Bxtch]

On 8/20/2016 at 10:50 AM, A Ghost of Someone said:

Note: He advised Aerys The Mad King not to open the gates to Tywin Lannister but Pycelle advised to do so, the Mad King followed Pycelle and not Varys and we know what happened. It is surprising to me that Varys was not executed or exiled after Robert's Rebellion or even after Tywin, after the Blackwater took over as Hand of the King, books and show. Oh well.

Well Jon Arryn, Tywin, and Robert all thought they'd need Varys on their side. As he has a vast network of spies that'd probably take them years to reacquire if they were to execute him.

The show Tywin doesn't seem to trust Varys that much, as he advises Tyrion to put all their heads (Varys, Baelish and Pycelle is included as well even though he pretty much helped get Tywin into the city back during RRs) on spikes if he sniffs a whiff of treason in any of them in the Season 1 finale. At this point the Targaryens were in exile and there seemed to be no way they'd be able to gain enough support to assault the Seven Kingdoms so they probably didn't think Varys would try to secretly begin a Targaryen restoration, which he still does anyways. Tywin is smart, Tyrells were clear rivals who sided with Renly Baratheon at first, but Tywin knew he'd need them so when Renly died he jumped on the opportunity to betroth Joffrey to Margaery. This same mentality shows you why Varys was spared. If it wasn't for his vast spy network he probably would of been executed.

[A Ghost of Someone]

22 hours ago, Adam_Up_Bxtch said:

Well Jon Arryn, Tywin, and Robert all thought they'd need Varys on their side. As he has a vast network of spies that'd probably take them years to reacquire if they were to execute him.

The show Tywin doesn't seem to trust Varys that much, as he advises Tyrion to put all their heads (Varys, Baelish and Pycelle is included as well even though he pretty much helped get Tywin into the city back during RRs) on spikes if he sniffs a whiff of treason in any of them in the Season 1 finale. At this point the Targaryens were in exile and there seemed to be no way they'd be able to gain enough support to assault the Seven Kingdoms so they probably didn't think Varys would try to secretly begin a Targaryen restoration, which he still does anyways. Tywin is smart, Tyrells were clear rivals who sided with Renly Baratheon at first, but Tywin knew he'd need them so when Renly died he jumped on the opportunity to betroth Joffrey to Margaery. This same mentality shows you why Varys was spared. If it wasn't for his vast spy network he probably would of been executed.

You are right in the sense that cartssimply simply knew to much And had the inextinguishable ability to find info.

[Nocturne]

So my only questions is why a Blackfyre would cut off his own cock? Nvm who are Vary's parrents, why would he cut off his own cock?

[Lord_Ravenstone]

On 8/6/2016 at 11:25 PM, jamprab said:

Actually, I think Baelish doesn't care about the throne.  He wants Winterfell, and he wants all of the Starks dead.  If he still loved Catelyn, why did he lie to her about having Arya in season 2?  If he loves Sansa, why did he lie about Arya again in season 3, then put her in an unsupervised mortal peril situation with Ramsay?  He told us his true intentions in season 5 when he was talking to Cersei.  He wants the North.  

Watch the panic in his eyes when Jon is named King in the North.  He didn't expect that.  The look he gave Sansa afterwards screamed "bad investment".

Well that contradicts the author's claims that LF loves Cat and loves Sansa but sometimes tries to detach himself from her.

And the TV producers have said that LF didn't know about the real Ramsay.

And it's been explained that the look he gave Sansa was "See I told you so"

[Lord_Ravenstone]

On 8/8/2016 at 5:31 PM, Elisabetta Duò said:

Agreed. I kinda liked Young Griff but if he (or his family) were to be alive and/or play a relevant role in the end, he wouldn't be cut off the show.

If I'm not mistaken in the show it's unclear whether Varys shaves his head or he's bald.. for sure he doesn't have body hair (Tyrion teases him saying "spoken as a man who never had to shave" after Varys talked about a razor: 6x08).

Not saying Varys can't be a Targ or a Targ related character: just that show Varys (and likely book Varys too) doesn't want the throne for himself.

In the show (and maybe in the books too, even if they're way more grey and subtle...we'll see how TWoW deals with Varys), it seems to me that Varys represents 'Order' and Littlefinger represents 'Chaos'. Order is mainly a 'good' force in that universe, often linked with peace, except that at times it sounds too much as 'restoration' and 'status quo', while 'Chaos' is mainly an evil force in that universe, often linked with war and extreme individualism, except that it may help social mobility (not alwas for the good). Of course you can have a little bit of social mobility also with Order (Davos) and you can have 'bad' social mobility with Chaos (men like Littlefinger raising to power). I guess Order is gonna prevail in the end.. but not entirely, so that Westeros as a society is going to change somehow (not in any abrupt way, there will be no Republic and no too sudden changes, but there will be changes, stones that will lead to a different social structure and a different role of the players - men and women, highborns and lowborns, etc. - on the chessboard in the following centuries). Even if I doubt Littlefinger will be there to see it.

That's....not true in the books at all. Varys tries to stir up chaos just as much as Littlefinger seeing as he's one of the main causes the Targaryens were brought down the first time. 

If Varys were truly for Order, he'd never have had supported Viserys in the show over Robert or had tried to get a Dothraki army invade in both the show and the books.

[Lord_Ravenstone]

On 8/31/2016 at 2:18 AM, Nocturne said:

So my only questions is why a Blackfyre would cut off his own cock? Nvm who are Vary's parrents, why would he cut off his own cock?

He would't. A sorcerer cut off his cock and fed it to the flames.