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Will Brienne Tell Bran (And Maybe Jon and Sansa) What Jaime Did???


Cron

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12 hours ago, Ser Mint said:

This is actually not true, and I can think of numerous examples. First to mind: Tyrion revealing to Dany that he knew all along that Jamie killed the mad king because of the wildfire (which is interesting, because he actually doesn't know that in the books, at least not that we know of). Anyway, we didn't see that conversation, so we had no idea until that moment that Tyrion knew why Jamie did what he did. Another example - Sansa telling Ramsay that he didn't feed his dogs so now they're starving. But Sansa rode off just before Ramsay made that comment to Jon, so we have to assume that Jon told Sansa about it later (which is perfectly reasonable to me - I don't think it's reasonable to expect to see every single conversation). So I don't the OP is necessarily incorrect in saying that Brienne may know about Jamie and Bran - in fact, that would fit pretty well with how the TV show does things, so it wouldn't surprise me at all. Of course it goes without saying that there is, as yet, no evidence either way and so it may not happen like that at all.  

I agree.

I think in the show Brienne knows, cause she and cat had to talk about Jaime even if we didn't see it. She knew Cat was going to release him and knew about the plan too. So why wouldn't tell her everything?

16 hours ago, Cron said:

 

(3)  Regarding whether Brienne knows:  I haven't seen the actual book quotes, but I believe a poster above basically says that in the books it is confirmed Brienne knows Jaime threw Bran from the window, b/c Brienne makes some sort of reference to Jaime about what he did to Bran.  

 

yes, that was me. Quotes (the only ones I remember) are these (ASOS):

Spoiler

Jaime and Brienne are on the boat, escaping from Riverrun 

"Jaime hooted. “Are there monsters hereabouts? Hiding beneath the water, perhaps? In that thick of willows? And me without my sword!”

“A man who would violate his own sister, murder his king, and fling an innocent child to his death deserves no other name.”
Innocent? The wretched boy was spying on us."

 

and chapters later, during the bath in Harrenhal

"“Does the sight of my stump distress you so?” Jaime asked. “You ought to be pleased. I’ve lost the hand I killed the king with. The hand that flung the Stark boy from that tower. The hand I’d slide between my sister’s thighs to make her wet.” He thrust his stump at her face. “No wonder Renly died, with you guarding him.”"

 

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4 hours ago, Cridefea said:

I agree.

I think in the show Brienne knows, cause she and cat had to talk about Jaime even if we didn't see it. She knew Cat was going to release him and knew about the plan too. So why wouldn't tell her everything?

yes, that was me. Quotes (the only ones I remember) are these (ASOS):

  Hide contents

Jaime and Brienne are on the boat, escaping from Riverrun 

"Jaime hooted. “Are there monsters hereabouts? Hiding beneath the water, perhaps? In that thick of willows? And me without my sword!”

“A man who would violate his own sister, murder his king, and fling an innocent child to his death deserves no other name.”
Innocent? The wretched boy was spying on us."

 

and chapters later, during the bath in Harrenhal

"“Does the sight of my stump distress you so?” Jaime asked. “You ought to be pleased. I’ve lost the hand I killed the king with. The hand that flung the Stark boy from that tower. The hand I’d slide between my sister’s thighs to make her wet.” He thrust his stump at her face. “No wonder Renly died, with you guarding him.”"

 

Hey, thanks, seriously, I really appreciate you taking the time to track that down and reproduce it here!

Pretty sure I can add another example of someone being told something off screen too, now that I think about it.  Robb himself knew what Jaime did, and Jaime did NOT tell him (Robb confronts Jaime about it in the scene in the show when Robb visits Jaime and talks to him with Grey Wind present).  I think the only conclusion we can draw is that Cat MUST have told Robb.

Back to Brienne: Yeah, I've got a feeling at some point this is going to get thorny for Brienne.  Unless Bran's memory of it returns, I think she's the only one who knows and might still spill the beans.  Cat and Robb knew, but they can't tell anyone, especially in the show..  Cersei knows but she's very unlikely to tell anyone (I guess it's possible she and Jaime might become so hostile towards each other that Cersei might tell someone what Jaime, but once it gets to that point I don't think she'll have a chance to do that, cuz Jaime's gonna cross her off.  Also, of course, by telling she would implicate herself as well, but who knows, maybe by that point she just won't really care anymore)

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It's a great theory, but for the show at least, I can't see what purpose it would serve.  The Starks don't need more reasons to dislike Jamie because of what just happened at Riverrun, nor is it likely that their paths will cross soon - if at all.  If Jamie was around Bran, then yes, her sense of honor and various oaths would compel her to warn them, but with hundreds of miles between them and no real reason to say anything to anyone, I think her feelings for Jamie will keep her from volunteering any such info.  Besides, as Bran's powers grow, what's to stop him from "seeing" it himself.  Maybe just being back at Winterfell will trigger a vision of that day.

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13 hours ago, Damitol said:

It's a great theory, but for the show at least, I can't see what purpose it would serve.  The Starks don't need more reasons to dislike Jamie because of what just happened at Riverrun, nor is it likely that their paths will cross soon - if at all.  If Jamie was around Bran, then yes, her sense of honor and various oaths would compel her to warn them, but with hundreds of miles between them and no real reason to say anything to anyone, I think her feelings for Jamie will keep her from volunteering any such info.  Besides, as Bran's powers grow, what's to stop him from "seeing" it himself.  Maybe just being back at Winterfell will trigger a vision of that day.

Well, it involves some speculation on my part, but the reason I think it matters is b/c I believe that eventually all the "forces of life" in Westeros are going to unite against the WW/Others threat, and I believe Jaime will be part of that.  Indeed, I believe Jaime's role will be fairly signifcant, as the military commander of a good chunk of the "forces of life."  Who else is left to do that?  Not Jorah, in the show.  Not Barristan, in the show, he's dead.  Tyrion?  Nope.  Grey Worm?  Maybe, maybe, but I think more than one commander will be needed.  Jon?  Maybe for some of the forces, but frankly I'm not too impressed with his military acumen anyway.  Tormund?  Nope, he's a good warrior, but almost useless as a military commander, same as Brienne.

My personal opinion is that Jaime is going to cross off Cersei, then join with the "Dany and Tyrion faction" and the "Jon, Sansa, Brienne, Bran, et cetera faction" to fight the WW/Others threat in the north.  When that happens, I believe Jaime and Bran WILL meet again, and the truth about what Jaime did will be a factor, whether it's cuz Brienne tells them, or Bran has a vision, or maybe Bran's memory is just jarred when he sees Jaime.

I believe that "Jaime meeting Bran again" is a scene we WILL be seeing in the future.  It brings Jaime's redemptino story arc full circle, and I think will be important to Bran, too.

But hey, maybe I'm wrong, seriously.  It could all be moot.  For all I know, it's possible Jaime and Cersei will both cross each other off in Episode 3 next season, but I don't think so.  I think Jaime is going to make it to the final battle in the show, and die there as a hero. 

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14 hours ago, Cron said:

 

My personal opinion is that Jaime is going to cross off Cersei, then join with the "Dany and Tyrion faction" and the "Jon, Sansa, Brienne, Bran, et cetera faction" to fight the WW/Others threat in the north.  When that happens, I believe Jaime and Bran WILL meet again, and the truth about what Jaime did will be a factor, whether it's cuz Brienne tells them, or Bran has a vision, or maybe Bran's memory is just jarred when he sees Jaime.

 

That would be great!! My feeling is that Brienne's story in the show could merge with the one in the books. 

Spoiler

So I'm really afraid that she could meet gendry (he must come back sooner or later!!) and than LS in the cave etc etc I'm almost positive Jaime and brienne will get out of there

 

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9 hours ago, Cridefea said:

That would be great!! My feeling is that Brienne's story in the show could merge with the one in the books. 

  Reveal hidden contents

So I'm really afraid that she could meet gendry (he must come back sooner or later!!) and than LS in the cave etc etc I'm almost positive Jaime and brienne will get out of there

 

Sounds good to me.

I hope we've not seen the last of Gendry, either.

In fact, I'm really hoping Gendry and Arya will end up together, and I think there's a VERY good chance of that happening.  That would pair one of Ned's children with one of Robert's actual children, just as Bran and Meera getting together, which I predict they WILL do, will pair another one of Ned's children with the child of another one of Ned's best friends, Howland Reed.

In fact, I think there's great foundation and support for both of these pairings, and it will be very tidy.

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On 8/17/2016 at 6:12 PM, Cridefea said:

I agree.

I think in the show Brienne knows, cause she and cat had to talk about Jaime even if we didn't see it. She knew Cat was going to release him and knew about the plan too. So why wouldn't tell her everything?

yes, that was me. Quotes (the only ones I remember) are these (ASOS):

  Hide contents

Jaime and Brienne are on the boat, escaping from Riverrun 

"Jaime hooted. “Are there monsters hereabouts? Hiding beneath the water, perhaps? In that thick of willows? And me without my sword!”

“A man who would violate his own sister, murder his king, and fling an innocent child to his death deserves no other name.”
Innocent? The wretched boy was spying on us."

 

and chapters later, during the bath in Harrenhal

"“Does the sight of my stump distress you so?” Jaime asked. “You ought to be pleased. I’ve lost the hand I killed the king with. The hand that flung the Stark boy from that tower. The hand I’d slide between my sister’s thighs to make her wet.” He thrust his stump at her face. “No wonder Renly died, with you guarding him.”"

 

Nice quotes, especially since the first one also confirms Brienne knew about Jaime and Cersei, which has also been something I've wondered about lately.

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I think Jamie's story is the one I've become most fascinated with as the story progressed. He's one of the most complex characters I've ever come across in a book or TV show/movie. Sometimes you hate him, sometimes you love him. In a way, he's an exaggerated representation of something really true about human nature. Most people don't go as far as trying to murder little boys by throwing them out of windows (although you can try to argue that he did that to save his sister/lover from death, it's still a pretty horrific action), but he is a character who shows us that every human has the capacity to do both great and terrible things, sometimes even on the same day.

This complexity is what ASOIAF/GoT is famous for, and most of the heroes are flawed in some way, but Jamie starts out as a pretty straight-up villain and yet manages to redeem himself in our eyes to an extent which would have seemed impossible after he tried to kill Bran. GoT has its share of cartoon villains (Ramsay, Joffrey, Euron etc.) but Jamie is how I wish that all 'villains' were written. If a story can make us sympathise with a villain, or even redeem that character so they're no longer a villain in our eyes, it's done something really powerful which goes way beyond the usual satisfaction of seeing a villain poisoned or beheaded or eaten alive by dogs. Kill the sin, not the sinner. 

Anyway, I like this theory that Jamie will have a role to play in the War for the Dawn, and that he will have to confront Bran again at some stage. I'd be disappointed if Jamie just dies in Kings Landing and plays no part in the endgame or even sees a White Walker. 

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5 hours ago, Ser Mint said:

I think Jamie's story is the one I've become most fascinated with as the story progressed. He's one of the most complex characters I've ever come across in a book or TV show/movie. Sometimes you hate him, sometimes you love him. In a way, he's an exaggerated representation of something really true about human nature. Most people don't go as far as trying to murder little boys by throwing them out of windows (although you can try to argue that he did that to save his sister/lover from death, it's still a pretty horrific action), but he is a character who shows us that every human has the capacity to do both great and terrible things, sometimes even on the same day.

This complexity is what ASOIAF/GoT is famous for, and most of the heroes are flawed in some way, but Jamie starts out as a pretty straight-up villain and yet manages to redeem himself in our eyes to an extent which would have seemed impossible after he tried to kill Bran. GoT has its share of cartoon villains (Ramsay, Joffrey, Euron etc.) but Jamie is how I wish that all 'villains' were written. If a story can make us sympathise with a villain, or even redeem that character so they're no longer a villain in our eyes, it's done something really powerful which goes way beyond the usual satisfaction of seeing a villain poisoned or beheaded or eaten alive by dogs. Kill the sin, not the sinner. 

Anyway, I like this theory that Jamie will have a role to play in the War for the Dawn, and that he will have to confront Bran again at some stage. I'd be disappointed if Jamie just dies in Kings Landing and plays no part in the endgame or even sees a White Walker. 

i agree that Jaime is fascinating as a character.

In addition to some of the very bad things the Lannisters actually do, I think it's clever how GRRM set it up to make the reader/watcher believe they are actually even worse than they are.  In Book One, the Starks are set up as the "good guys," and the Lannisters are set up as the "bad guys," BUT, actually, the Lannisters are widely blamed for things they didn't even do, such as killing Jon Arryn (which was actually done by Littlefinger and Lysa)  and sending the guy to try to kill Bran with the knife (which was actually Joffrey, who is technically a Baratheon, but Tyrion got blamed for it on an outright lie by Littlefinger, and actually NONE of the major Lannisters had anything to do with it)

By blaming the Lannisters for even MORE than they actually did, GRRM really pulled a fast one on the reader, I think, and made the transition of the Lannisters from "villains" to something not nearly so clear and one-dimensional a lot easier and more believable.

Indeed, what have we EVER seen Jaime do that is truly bad, other than throwing Bran out that window?  (Which IS a major bad thing, granted)  Not much.  In the show he killed his cousin, but that didn't happen in the books, and I thought it was very out of character for Jaime in the show (cuz family is so important to Jaime)  He treats Tyrion EXTREMELY well (better than anyone else has in Tyrion's entire life, in fact).  My goodness, even the lies Jaime told Tyrion about Tysha were to spare Tyrion pain.  Indeed, I know some people who had only watched the show for the first season or two, and when I told them Jaime and Tyrion were VERY close, they didn't believe me and argued with me, thinking Tyrion is so cool and Jaime is "such a villain" that they can't possibly get along.  But, uh, THEY DO and they have for all of Tyrion's life, just about.   In fact, I'd say Tyrion owes Jaime more than anyone else in his entire life.

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On 3/9/2016 at 4:25 AM, Ser Mint said:

I think Jamie's story is the one I've become most fascinated with as the story progressed. He's one of the most complex characters I've ever come across in a book or TV show/movie. Sometimes you hate him, sometimes you love him. In a way, he's an exaggerated representation of something really true about human nature. Most people don't go as far as trying to murder little boys by throwing them out of windows (although you can try to argue that he did that to save his sister/lover from death, it's still a pretty horrific action), but he is a character who shows us that every human has the capacity to do both great and terrible things, sometimes even on the same day.

This complexity is what ASOIAF/GoT is famous for, and most of the heroes are flawed in some way, but Jamie starts out as a pretty straight-up villain and yet manages to redeem himself in our eyes to an extent which would have seemed impossible after he tried to kill Bran. GoT has its share of cartoon villains (Ramsay, Joffrey, Euron etc.) but Jamie is how I wish that all 'villains' were written. If a story can make us sympathise with a villain, or even redeem that character so they're no longer a villain in our eyes, it's done something really powerful which goes way beyond the usual satisfaction of seeing a villain poisoned or beheaded or eaten alive by dogs. Kill the sin, not the sinner. 

Anyway, I like this theory that Jamie will have a role to play in the War for the Dawn, and that he will have to confront Bran again at some stage. I'd be disappointed if Jamie just dies in Kings Landing and plays no part in the endgame or even sees a White Walker. 

What is interesting is jumping from watching his actions from outside to inside (becoming PoV). It's clearifying. It doesn't concern only witness his redemption, but his real thoughts. Even before his changing. Knowing his way of thinking, we learn that when he throws Bran out of the window he is acting in the way he thinks that Cersei wants. He often acted what his father/sister had thought, in an automatic reaction. Being far from them has helped his change.

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14 hours ago, Cridefea said:

What is interesting is jumping from watching his actions from outside to inside (becoming PoV). It's clearifying. It doesn't concern only witness his redemption, but his real thoughts. Even before his changing. Knowing his way of thinking, we learn that when he throws Bran out of the window he is acting in the way he thinks that Cersei wants. He often acted what his father/sister had thought, in an automatic reaction. Being far from them has helped his change.

Yeah, I definitely agree with you about the POV stuff.

When I first read the books, I was fascinated by POV shifts, especially when we started to get to POV chapters from people I never expected to see after I read the first book, most notably Jaime and Cersei.

One thing I'm really looking forward to is the "reunion" between Jaime and Tyrion, especially if Cersei is there, too.   Jaime told Bronn in Season 5 he intends to kill Tyrion next time he sees him (cuz Tyrion crossed off Tywin), it should be interesting to see if Jaime actually tries it (in any event, I'm confident Jaime won't succeed, even if he does try it).  If Jaime does try to kill Tyrion, I wonder if Bronn will stop him, as I think Bronn is sure to be there, too.

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Just now, Cron said:

Yeah, I definitely agree with you about the POV stuff.

When I first read the books, I was fascinated by POV shifts, especially when we started to get to POV chapters from people I never expected to see after I read the first book, most notably Jaime and Cersei.

 

:agree:

Just now, Cron said:

One thing I'm really looking forward to is the "reunion" between Jaime and Tyrion, especially if Cersei is there, too.   Jaime told Bronn in Season 5 he intends to kill Tyrion next time he sees him (cuz Tyrion crossed off Tywin), it should be interesting to see if Jaime actually tries it (in any event, I'm confident Jaime won't succeed, even if he does try it).  If Jaime does try to kill Tyrion, I wonder if Bronn will stop him, as I think Bronn is sure to be there, to

I don't think Jaime will tries it. I can't remember, when did he tell Bronn he intends to kill Tyrion?

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3 hours ago, Cridefea said:

:agree:

I don't think Jaime will tries it. I can't remember, when did he tell Bronn he intends to kill Tyrion?

It's not in the books, of course, but in Season 5 of the show, when Jaime and Bronn were on the ship headed for Dorne to try to rescue Myrcella, Jaime and Bronn have a conversation and, as I strongly recall, one of the things said by Jaime is that when he sees Tyrion again he intends to kill him b/c Tyrion killed Tywin.   To my memory, I don't believe Bronn really responds to that, one way or the other, but of course Tyrion and Bronn are very good friends, too, so it will be interesting to see how Bronn will react if Jaime actually tries to kill Tyrion.

Don't get me wrong, though, I'm not positive Jaime will actually try to kill Tyrion.  It's possible they will have some conversation first, and somehow smooth things out in a way will allow Tyrion to live, possibly with Bronn acting as an intermediary.  I can't imagine who else would act as a peacekeeper between Jaime and Tyrion, Cersei wants Tyrion dead about 10 times as much as Jaime does.

But the Lannister family reunion next season should be a real doozy.  HARRR!!!!!!

 

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13 hours ago, Cron said:

It's not in the books, of course, but in Season 5 of the show, when Jaime and Bronn were on the ship headed for Dorne to try to rescue Myrcella, Jaime and Bronn have a conversation and, as I strongly recall, one of the things said by Jaime is that when he sees Tyrion again he intends to kill him b/c Tyrion killed Tywin.  

 

Oh thanks! I have to re-watch it.

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