How did Rickon get to Skagos?

[Eiko Dragonhorn]

I've never seen this discussed or mentioned even though it seems like it impacts several popular theories...

My assumption is that Manderly has to have helped Rickon, Osha, and Shaggydog get a ship to take them to Skagos, which obviously adds to the fact that he's just bullshitting all over Davos' face with the mission to get Rickon back.

So why isn't it mentioned? Is it mentioned and I've just missed it? Is there some alternative way to Skagos? Did Osha hire Show-Gendry to row them over? Did they sneak onto one of the zero ships that go there? What's the deal?

[Falcon2908]

by ship

[Free Northman Reborn]

The Manderlys and Umbers built a bunch of ships over the last year. The Umbers live closest to Skagos.

They likely shipped Rickon to Skagos when the Greatjon was taken hostage. And informed the Manderlys about it. 

That's my view.

The purpose of the Wex story, though, still eludes me.

[Ckram]

Manderly knew from Wex, who was hidden and heard Bran, Rickon, et al. But we don't really know what did Wex heard or saw of Rickon and Osha after they left Bran.

Last Hearth is not close to the sea, and sailing the bay of seals "is hazardous, especially during the autumn storms when the cold can freeze ropes and sails".

Besides, we learn from Davos that even experienced sailors fear to land at Skagos. And Theon (as Reek) recalls that nobody have a clue of what actually happens in Skagos.

So, i wonder who is the ballsy sailor who took them there.

[Free Northman Reborn]

11 minutes ago, Ckram said:

Manderly knew from Wex, who was hidden and heard Bran, Rickon, et al. But we don't really know what did Wex heard or saw of Rickon and Osha after they left Bran.

Last Hearth is not close to the sea, and sailing the bay of seals "is hazardous, especially during the autumn storms when the cold can freeze ropes and sails".

Besides, we learn from Davos that even experienced sailors fear to land at Skagos. And Theon (as Reek) recalls that nobody have a clue of what actually happens in Skagos.

So, i wonder who is the ballsy sailor who took them there.

That's if you believe the Wex story, which is pretty much the lamest plot development in the entire 5 book series to date.

[Universal Sword Donor]

Probably some influence from the northern houses. That said, intimidation from a wirewolf wouldn't hurt. 

[Ashes Of Westeros]

Apparently Umbers or Manderlys halped Rickon to get there. My question is how he would get back and if we see him again.

[The Dew]

If I remember correctly Wex Pyke followed Osha, Rickon and Shaggydog followed them. Did he see them setting off from the mainland boarding any vessel? Do you guys remember that and I would appreciate if you remember any reference to the same. If you're on a busy port along with a direwolf, one could make huge impression and many people would talk about it. It's a mystery because GRMM wants it to be a mystery about Rickon and his travel.

[Lord Vance II]

If anyone helped, it would have been the Umbers after the Red Wedding, if he really did flee there first. Or maybe Osha rounded up some random smallfolk, showed them the direwolf and had them help get to Skagos. I think Osha would know to involve as small of people as possible to keep it quiet, maybe pay with something she steals or something. 

55 minutes ago, The Dew said:

If you're on a busy port along with a direwolf, one could make huge impression and many people would talk about it

I don't think any "port" north of White Harbor would be busy...more likely they would set off from a nameless small fishing village. 

55 minutes ago, The Dew said:

If I remember correctly Wex Pyke followed Osha, Rickon and Shaggydog followed them.

 Yes, that's what Glover tells Davos in the Wolfs Den. It does seem strange that he would follow the smaller group. We don't know where he left them either, presumably at the coast, but not necessarily. 

I think another big question is, if the Umbers did sent him to Skagos, did they sent men with him to deal with the Skagosi? Did Osha go independently, knowing no one would look there, and just hopes her wildlingness/Shaggydog will save them if things go bad?

[The Dew]

9 minutes ago, Lord Vance II said:

If anyone helped, it would have been the Umbers after the Red Wedding, if he really did flee there first. Or maybe Osha rounded up some random smallfolk, showed them the direwolf and had them help get to Skagos. I think Osha would know to involve as small of people as possible to keep it quiet, maybe not show the wolf at all and pay with something she steals or something. 

I don't think any "port" north of White Harbor would be busy...more likely they would set off from a nameless small fishing village. 

 Yes, that's what Glover tells Davos in the Wolfs Den. It does seem strange that he would follow the smaller group. We don't know where he left them either, presumably at the coast, but not necessarily. 

I think another big question is, if the Umbers did sent him to Skagos, did they sent men with him to deal with the Skagosi? Did Osha go independently, knowing no one would look there, and just hopes her wildlingness/Shaggydog will save them if things go bad?

Yep, it makes sense if Osha is running thins, and the lands of the Umbers seem to be the safest route to Skagos. I am really looking into the new book, as some light will be shed on this mystery. If they have indeed went to Skagos and Davos isn't being played. I want the Skagos part to be real, as this is the only chance to find out more about it along with Rickon's storyline.

[Lord Vance II]

11 minutes ago, The Dew said:

If they have indeed went to Skagos and Davos isn't being played.

Oh, Davos is getting played, just not about Skagos. Manderly really does think Rickon is there, but he almost obviously has no intention of supporting Stannis past smashing the Boltons. 

13 minutes ago, The Dew said:

I want the Skagos part to be real, as this is the only chance to find out more about it along with Rickon's storyline.

I'm hoping that Davos goes looking for Rickon Stark and finds the Black Wolf instead...

[The Dew]

7 minutes ago, Lord Vance II said:

Oh, Davos is getting played, just not about Skagos. Manderly really does think Rickon is there, but he almost obviously has no intention of supporting Stannis past smashing the Boltons. 

I'm hoping that Davos goes looking for Rickon Stark and finds the Black Wolf instead...

yep, we will see how it will go from there; we will have to wait at least for one year. Skagos will be full of surprises I guess.

[Dorian Martell]

On 8/6/2016 at 11:22 PM, Eiko Dragonhorn said:

I've never seen this discussed or mentioned even though it seems like it impacts several popular theories...

My assumption is that Manderly has to have helped Rickon, Osha, and Shaggydog get a ship to take them to Skagos, which obviously adds to the fact that he's just bullshitting all over Davos' face with the mission to get Rickon back.

So why isn't it mentioned? Is it mentioned and I've just missed it? Is there some alternative way to Skagos? Did Osha hire Show-Gendry to row them over? Did they sneak onto one of the zero ships that go there? What's the deal?

While I don't remember anything about their posessions at the time of winterfell burning, I would assume Osha took Ludwin's chain and any jewelry or coin he had. That could be how they bribed a fisherman or someone else with a small boat to take them to Skagos 

[Clegane'sPup]

11 hours ago, Free Northman Reborn said:

That's if you believe the Wex story, which is pretty much the lamest plot development in the entire 5 book series to date.

I just wanted to add my penny’s worth to the thread.  The Wex story really doesn’t make sense. Theon gets Wex as part of a deal.

"Time to go," Theon announced. When the boy paid him no mind, he seized him by the ear and pulled him from the game. Wex grabbed up a fistful of coppers and came along without a word. That was one of the things Theon liked best about him. Most squires have loose tongues, but Wex had been born dumb … which didn't seem to keep him from being clever as any twelve-year-old had a right to be. He was a baseborn son of one of Lord Botley's half brothers. Taking him as squire had been part of the price Theon had paid for his horse.  CoK Theon II

The 12 year old likes to play dice and Theon remarks that Wex is clever.  In Clash Wex seems to be quite loyal to Theon. Wex even helps with the tracking of Bran & companions after their feigned disappearance  from WF.

I guess what I’m scratching my head about is, this 12 year old Iron Born mute knows how to track? He’s the bastard of some Boltley on the isle of Pyke. Theon says he agreed to take Wex as a squire <scratches head> so he could get a horse.

I re-read some of the Theon CoK chapters and Theon’s acquiring of Wex is not actually elaborated upon.

Davos describes Wex as:

The lad who followed Robett Glover through the door was not a Stark, nor could he ever hope to pass for one. He was older than the Young Wolf's murdered brothers, fourteen or fifteen by the look of him, and his eyes were older still. Beneath a tangle of dark brown hair his face was almost feral, with a wide mouth, sharp nose, and pointed chin.

I really don’t know where I’m going with this but I do think something is amiss. I’m wondering if Wex is actually mute. I do think Manderly is deceiving Davos.

"Perhaps you understand, then." Wyman Manderly lurched ponderously to his feet. "I have been building warships for more than a year. Some you saw, but there are as many more hidden up the White Knife. Even with the losses I have suffered, I still command more heavy horse than any other lord north of the Neck. My walls are strong, and my vaults are full of silver. Oldcastle and Widow's Watch will take their lead from me. My bannermen include a dozen petty lords and a hundred landed knights. I can deliver King Stannis the allegiance of all the lands east of the White Knife, from Widow's Watch and Ramsgate to the Sheepshead Hills and the headwaters of the Broken Branch. All this I pledge to do if you will meet my price."

Add in that I do not know what Luwin while he sat there dying told Osha and what while hiding up the tree Wex heard.

[aryagonnakill#2]

4 minutes ago, Clegane'sPup said:

I just wanted to add my penny’s worth to the thread.  The Wex story really doesn’t make sense. Theon gets Wex as part of a deal.

"Time to go," Theon announced. When the boy paid him no mind, he seized him by the ear and pulled him from the game. Wex grabbed up a fistful of coppers and came along without a word. That was one of the things Theon liked best about him. Most squires have loose tongues, but Wex had been born dumb … which didn't seem to keep him from being clever as any twelve-year-old had a right to be. He was a baseborn son of one of Lord Botley's half brothers. Taking him as squire had been part of the price Theon had paid for his horse.  CoK Theon II

The 12 year old likes to play dice and Theon remarks that Wex is clever.  In Clash Wex seems to be quite loyal to Theon. Wex even helps with the tracking of Bran & companions after their feigned disappearance  from WF.

I guess what I’m scratching my head about is, this 12 year old Iron Born mute knows how to track? He’s the bastard of some Boltley on the isle of Pyke. Theon says he agreed to take Wex as a squire <scratches head> so he could get a horse.

I re-read some of the Theon CoK chapters and Theon’s acquiring of Wex is not actually elaborated upon.

Davos describes Wex as:

The lad who followed Robett Glover through the door was not a Stark, nor could he ever hope to pass for one. He was older than the Young Wolf's murdered brothers, fourteen or fifteen by the look of him, and his eyes were older still. Beneath a tangle of dark brown hair his face was almost feral, with a wide mouth, sharp nose, and pointed chin.

I really don’t know where I’m going with this but I do think something is amiss. I’m wondering if Wex is actually mute. I do think Manderly is deceiving Davos.

"Perhaps you understand, then." Wyman Manderly lurched ponderously to his feet. "I have been building warships for more than a year. Some you saw, but there are as many more hidden up the White Knife. Even with the losses I have suffered, I still command more heavy horse than any other lord north of the Neck. My walls are strong, and my vaults are full of silver. Oldcastle and Widow's Watch will take their lead from me. My bannermen include a dozen petty lords and a hundred landed knights. I can deliver King Stannis the allegiance of all the lands east of the White Knife, from Widow's Watch and Ramsgate to the Sheepshead Hills and the headwaters of the Broken Branch. All this I pledge to do if you will meet my price."

 

 

Add in that I do not know what Luwin while he sat there dying told Osha and what while hiding up the tree Wex heard.

This, I'm pretty sure you and I have discussed this before.  The whole story just does not add up.  Wex supposedly follows a Direwolf across hundreds of miles without once being up wind, then somehow gets to White Harbor?  And just getting to Umber lands would have them crossing Dreadford lands.

 

[MinotaurWarrior]

We saw Shaggydog eat a unicorn, so Rickon is probably on Skagos.

I kinda suspect Wex is a little bird, but I have no hard proof.

Osha very likely has pre-existing relations with the Skagosi, else why would they have been her chosen destination? There was likely an established system for hitching a ride with the Skagosi - e.g. a rocky outcropping she knew they often sailed past. I don't think Rickon could have gotten on a boat from any of the Northern Lord's settlements, because of the giant effing direwolf. In the south, where nobody really cares about prehistoric european megafauna, we're able to track Nymeria's activities. In the north, there'd be no way to hide a story about a little boy and his giant wolf walking into port.

[Free Northman Reborn]

4 hours ago, MinotaurWarrior said:

We saw Shaggydog eat a unicorn, so Rickon is probably on Skagos.

I kinda suspect Wex is a little bird, but I have no hard proof.

Osha very likely has pre-existing relations with the Skagosi, else why would they have been her chosen destination? There was likely an established system for hitching a ride with the Skagosi - e.g. a rocky outcropping she knew they often sailed past. I don't think Rickon could have gotten on a boat from any of the Northern Lord's settlements, because of the giant effing direwolf. In the south, where nobody really cares about prehistoric european megafauna, we're able to track Nymeria's activities. In the north, there'd be no way to hide a story about a little boy and his giant wolf walking into port.

The Osha masterplan idea rings hollow. Especially considering she is unlikely to have any sway over the clan chiefs of the Skagosi.

More likely is that the Umbers have some interaction with House Magnar or the other noble Houses from Skagos. And that Rickon was first housed by them, until the Red Wedding when his discovery by the Boltons could no longer be risked.

We know the Umbers built longships to protect their shores from wildlings. So we know they have the capability to sail into the Bay of Seals. That to me is the most likely method by which Rickon and Shaggy were transported to Skagos.

Somehow it seems unlikely that some commoner that Osha somehow knew from her days Beyond the Wall (implausible) had a boat handy large enough to carry a direwolf and some passangers all the way to Skagos (even more implausible).

It seems a longship is the smallest type of craft able to achieve that with any degree of realism. And for that you need the Umbers.

[SevasTra82]

I think a lot of Skagosi lore is just built-up rumors and legends,  Now, I'm not saying that *getting* to Skagos isn't difficult, but I do think it is exaggerated a bit through the tales.

In their history, they had on-going wars with the Stark.  They have a trade opened up with Westeros.  There are also people at the Wall that are from Skagos, etc.  So clearly there must be a  route through the Bay of Seals that people can tread through to get to Skagos fairly safely.  Unless over time the weather on those route(s) have worsened or something.

Either way, I don't think traveling to-and-from Skagos is necessarily an impossible one.  I just think it's a dreadful one simply due to Skagos reputation.  Osha, Rickon etc more then likely got there via ship through the Umbers, as I don't see any other logical way for it to happen (as I doubt the Wildlings have ships parked on the coast or anything like that).

[Tucu]

6 minutes ago, SevasTra82 said:

I think a lot of Skagosi lore is just built-up rumors and legends,  Now, I'm not saying that *getting* to Skagos isn't difficult, but I do think it is exaggerated a bit through the tales.

In their history, they had on-going wars with the Stark.  They have a trade opened up with Westeros.  There are also people at the Wall that are from Skagos, etc.  So clearly there must be a  route through the Bay of Seals that people can tread through to get to Skagos fairly safely.  Unless over time the weather on those route(s) have worsened or something.

Either way, I don't think traveling to-and-from Skagos is necessarily an impossible one.  I just think it's a dreadful one simply due to Skagos reputation.  Osha, Rickon etc more then likely got there via ship through the Umbers, as I don't see any other logical way for it to happen (as I doubt the Wildlings have ships parked on the coast or anything like that).

If Ned could hire a fisherman to take him from the Fingers to White Harbor, I don't doubt that Osha could get a loyal fisherman to help them cross the Bay of Seals. A lot more discrete than involving the Umbers (or Karstarks)

[SevasTra82]

Just now, Tucu said:

If Ned could hire a fisherman to take him from the Fingers to White Harbor, I don't doubt that Osha could get a loyal fisherman to help them cross the Bay of Seals. A lot more discrete than involving the Umbers (or Karstarks)

Perhaps, but I don't think a simple fisherman can cross the Bay of Seals and get to Skagos.  I do think it's a tough sail that requires a decent boat, I just don't think it's as dangerous and impossible as the tales make it sound like.