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Could there end up being (bastard) Great houses all over Westero's ?


StoneColdJorahMormont

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As Jon has not chosen to take the name Stark when offered in favour of his place in the nights watch and now being the King in the north... would it be the Snow's of Winterfell ? and if he had kids the Snow line would continue and become a great house in the north ?

Same with the Sands of Dorne if one of the girls survives and kept the name through marriage and produced children.

Tyrion could disinherit his name Lannister when he gets casterly Rock, if it turned out Tywin wasn't his true father and with all that's happened on top and end up with Hill House.

Would be nice to see all the bastardy names get into positions of power after generations of being looked down upon for it.

 

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On 8/9/2016 at 10:43 PM, House_Of_Fraser said:

As Jon has not chosen to take the name Stark when offered in favour of his place in the nights watch and now being the King in the north... would it be the Snow's of Winterfell ? and if he had kids the Snow line would continue and become a great house in the north ?

Same with the Sands of Dorne if one of the girls survives and kept the name through marriage and produced children.

Tyrion could disinherit his name Lannister when he gets casterly Rock, if it turned out Tywin wasn't his true father and with all that's happened on top and end up with Hill House.

Would be nice to see all the bastardy names get into positions of power after generations of being looked down upon for it.

Interesting idea.  Though personally I would like to see all the Sand Snakes dead, it's possible one of them will turn on the others - they are treacherous snakes after all.  

We also have no known living characters to carry on the Baratheon name.  Could be Gendry might show up and be appointed the new Lord of Storm's End.  

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16 hours ago, AugustusTheGreat said:

Ned said in his own words that Jon had Stark blood running through him. Ramsey was already Warden of the north and declared himself a Bolton, Jon could easily do the same. 

Yeah i meant if he kept his name as Snow, The Snakes from Dorne. and if Tyrion turns out not to be a Lannister and with killing his father, hating his sister etc.... decides to disinherit his family name and became a Hill ( being born in Casterly Rock )

We could end up with Bastard names being the greatest house in their own region.

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3 hours ago, A spoon of knife and fork said:

Interesting idea.  Though personally I would like to see all the Sand Snakes dead, it's possible one of them will turn on the others - they are treacherous snakes after all.  

We also have no known living characters to carry on the Baratheon name.  Could be Gendry might show up and be appointed the new Lord of Storm's End.  

Yeah there's another Bastard that if he chooses not to take his fathers name could end up being a bastard name in charge of their region and greatest house in their region.

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On ‎8‎/‎9‎/‎2016 at 9:43 PM, House_Of_Fraser said:

As Jon has not chosen to take the name Stark when offered in favour of his place in the nights watch and now being the King in the north... would it be the Snow's of Winterfell ? and if he had kids the Snow line would continue and become a great house in the north ?

Same with the Sands of Dorne if one of the girls survives and kept the name through marriage and produced children.

Tyrion could disinherit his name Lannister when he gets casterly Rock, if it turned out Tywin wasn't his true father and with all that's happened on top and end up with Hill House.

Would be nice to see all the bastardy names get into positions of power after generations of being looked down upon for it.

 

I like how you think.

Like I said in another thread, I firmly believe that it is GRRM's agenda, through his story writing, for further erode todays perceptional belief in 'bastardization'.

Every child is born innocent and full of potential for greatness.

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Probably won't happen but it would be a nice smaller ending amongst the big bitter sweet ending he has mentioned and as you say break the divide between people of worth and those seen as nothing more than dogs. Dany has been on a quest since season 1 to break the chain and show those in slavery or lesser positions they don't need to accept that this is the only life for them.

1 hour ago, Grizzly A Mormont said:

I like how you think.

Like I said in another thread, I firmly believe that it is GRRM's agenda, through his story writing, for further erode todays perceptional belief in 'bastardization'.

Every child is born innocent and full of potential for greatness.

 

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On ‎8‎/‎11‎/‎2016 at 11:04 AM, House_Of_Fraser said:

Yeah i meant if he kept his name as Snow, The Snakes from Dorne. and if Tyrion turns out not to be a Lannister and with killing his father, hating his sister etc.... decides to disinherit his family name and became a Hill ( being born in Casterly Rock )

We could end up with Bastard names being the greatest house in their own region.

Well, bastard names are given to those without a house. I'm guessing that most of the people in any region are bastards.

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Yeah but what I'm getting at is that if one of those bastards managed to get a house named after them and especially a great one, it would kill off any negative associations with it, and any bastards would not need to feel or be treated as a lesser.

Obviously this isn't going to happen with any random bastard but there is potential for it to happen with Jon Snow, The Sands of Dorne and possibly Tyrion ( Hill ) if he decides to cut all ties with the Lannister name.

With Jon Snow being the king of the north and most likely to live in Winterfell, having in the past declined the chance to become a Stark due to his oath , if he decides again in the future to remain a Snow his house will be House Snow and his children will be Snows. So any bastard of the north called Snow will most likely not be treated with the same attitude that he and other bastards of the north grew up dealing with as the name is not just associated with being a bastard anymore but with the greatest house of the north and proof that anyone lowborn can amount to great things.

And the same thing could happen in other regions for instance  if one of the Sands manages to survive as they are sitting in power in Drone, as Spoon pointed out Gendry could possibly take his region having Roberts blood in him but without his surname his house would be also a bastard name, and another long shot if Tyrion disowns the Lannister name if proven he is not Twins son but inherits Casterly Rock has potential for a House Hill.

 

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This is interesting. I really like this idea and who knows? It might happen. A lot of the great houses are practically obliterated or have so very few people carrying the name: Starks, Tullys, Arryns, Baratheons, Tyrells, Lannisters, Martells, Targaryens, and who knows what other houses that were killed when Cersei destroyed the Sept of Baelor. It's not far fetched for them to be replaced by bastards or even minor houses. It's like a low key revolution in Westeros - out with the corrupt old and in with the promising new.

But if it does happen, would the bastards really keep their bastard name or make something new? Like those that were legitimized (Blackfyre, Longwaters, etc.). It will definitely make it more acceptable to other nobles since new names would make their line sound more like a cadet branch of the extinct ones. I doubt they would easily bow down to bastards and would prefer to take the seat of power for themselves. The North with the Starks and Jon Snow seems to be more of an exception than the norm. So the bastards changing their names to something associated with the extinct house can be a compromise.

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I would prefer they kept the bastard name, purely so it raises the name for other bastards born and to come. If Jon Snow for example becomes the lord of Winterfell and keeps Snow instead of Stark/Targaryen then any other Snows in the north although not related to him, but just sharing the same surname would not be looked down upon so quickly.... because the name is associated with greatness now and incase they are a relation of Jon's.... as sooner or later he will have kids... and they will have kids.... and nobody will be able to know if they are a Snow ( royalty) or a Snow ( Bastard)..

And the same for other regions if the Sands keep Dorne or if Tyrion removes the Lannister.

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On 8/12/2016 at 3:46 PM, House_Of_Fraser said:

Yeah but what I'm getting at is that if one of those bastards managed to get a house named after them and especially a great one, it would kill off any negative associations with it, and any bastards would not need to feel or be treated as a lesser.

Obviously this isn't going to happen with any random bastard but there is potential for it to happen with Jon Snow, The Sands of Dorne and possibly Tyrion ( Hill ) if he decides to cut all ties with the Lannister name.

With Jon Snow being the king of the north and most likely to live in Winterfell, having in the past declined the chance to become a Stark due to his oath , if he decides again in the future to remain a Snow his house will be House Snow and his children will be Snows. So any bastard of the north called Snow will most likely not be treated with the same attitude that he and other bastards of the north grew up dealing with as the name is not just associated with being a bastard anymore but with the greatest house of the north and proof that anyone lowborn can amount to great things.

And the same thing could happen in other regions for instance  if one of the Sands manages to survive as they are sitting in power in Drone, as Spoon pointed out Gendry could possibly take his region having Roberts blood in him but without his surname his house would be also a bastard name, and another long shot if Tyrion disowns the Lannister name if proven he is not Twins son but inherits Casterly Rock has potential for a House Hill.

 

You're overlooking basic human nature in this. Look at how Ramsay rubbing Jon's bastardy in his face repeatedly once he was legitimized. People are often going to find reasons to look down upon who they perceive as their lessers. Jon and Tyrion may be decent enough, but their kids? Their grandkids? Leave alone even if you have the great houses headed by bastards, that doesn't mean all the lesser houses are going to like it or change their attitudes.

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Depends really, if you look at Ramesy he was legitimised by the Throne, so he's a Bolton, he might be looked down on but amusing he survived and his children where illegitimate then they'd just be seen as Boltons. If you remember the story that Ygritte told to Jon about Bael the Bard, Bael's son became Lord of Winterfell and presumably a Stark.

There is also the case of houses like Blackfyre, where they are simply given a new name and then that house could rise to dominance, so  something like that has happend in the past, in fact the Barrathions are descended from Orys Baratheon who was a bastard and prehaps a Targaryen bastard.

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