‘Ocean’s 8’: the female-driven caper spinoff

[Manhole Eunuchsbane]

2 minutes ago, MisterOJ said:

Nope. Babies.

Fuck. I should've guessed.

[Martini Sigil]

Why call it "ocean's" anything?... with a cast like that a heist movie could stand up on its own....associating this movie with former male dominated cast suggests that women need the help from the fellas.... which everyone knows is not true... its mind bogglingly stupid... its like the producers are begging for negative press....

Robocop.... total recall.... ghostbusters... ugh... Hollywood keeps making these shitty reboots because foreign audiences eat it up... Christ in a onesie, they suck.

[Mladen]

6 hours ago, Raja said:

I'm not saying that it's completely solved the issue, but the fact that we're seeing it makes me think that it's possible to change the norm in hollywood at some point. Those are signs of hope as opposed to declarations that Hollywood is okay the way it is ( which I didn't state to begin with, neither did I 'applaud' them for diversification) 

I didn't mean it to be that personal I was more making some general observations. I do believe we need more money invested in movies with women in the center. I do believe that the likes of Meryl Streep, Sandra Bullock or Cate Blanchett should be pay equal as IDK George Clooney or Leonardo DiCaprio. I do believe we need change on so many levels, starting from filmmaking and ending with entire award-shenanigans.

5 hours ago, Dr. Pepper said:

I'm not a huge fan of studios doing the 'female/black/asian/lgbt version of xyz', but they certainly need to keep doing it until bigots stop doing things like deny the existence of bigotry or saying that actual attempts to make entertainment more diverse is just a trend.  We women or people of color or queer folk aren't fucking trends.  We actually exist and we should be allowed to see ourselves reflected on the screen without the straight white male population praying it's a trend that will end soon.  

Shame on you.  You should be hoping that we don't go back to a time when these groups of people weren't well represented.

I am more worried, confused and angered that Hollywood can't make an original material for female cast rather than resorting to these adaptations. 

4 hours ago, Fez said:

Its not necessarily the cast I'd have gone with, but I assume Sandra Bullock is Ocean, and she's almost always great. 

 Everything her glorious majesty, Ms Blanchett does has my seal of approval... I don't care about anything else  

[Mladen]

6 minutes ago, Martini Sigil said:

Why call it "ocean's" anything?... with a cast like that a heist movie could stand up on its own....associating this movie with former male dominated cast suggests that women need the help from the fellas.... which everyone knows is not true... its mind bogglingly stupid... its like the producers are begging for negative press....

I couldn't agree more. With the cast that includes Bullock, Blanchett, Hathaway and Bonham Carter, a movie that at one point had Jennifer Lawrence in negotiations, did it really need to be a reboot? And even though audience knows that these women don't need help from their male colleagues to make people go to the theaters, the studio's assumption it does speaks volumes about Hollywood's current state of mind.

[Dr. Pepper]

4 minutes ago, Risto said:

 

I am more worried, confused and angered that Hollywood can't make an original material for female cast rather than resorting to these adaptations. 

 

Yeah, that's a problem.  But Hollywood has had a problem making an original anything in years.  If they're going to do all of these prequel/sequal things over and over again, the least they can do is cast them with women.

[Mladen]

1 minute ago, Dr. Pepper said:

Yeah, that's a problem.  But Hollywood has had a problem making an original anything in years.  If they're going to do all of these prequel/sequal things over and over again, the least they can do is cast them with women.

I totally get it and I do want to see more women (and variety of minorities) on screen but I am not the sure this is the right way. It feels as the empty gesture. Like "Black Panther" movie and Disney bragging that 80% of the cast will be African-American. Seriously? You are making a movie about imaginary country in southern Africa and the cast is black (apologies if I offended anyone by using it)? Gimme a break. The same thing goes here... But this parading has become such a distasteful practice.

A bit off-topic:

Just to stress out how annoyed I am with this parading of so-called equality. Serbia got its first gay minister and I can feel that the minister in question will be used as a "proof" to how progressive our society is. Well, it isn't. And the fact that Parliament didn't need 2 hours before descending into talk about that, just proves it.

/rant. Thanks for sympathetic ear  

[Manhole Eunuchsbane]

18 minutes ago, Martini Sigil said:

Why call it "ocean's" anything?... with a cast like that a heist movie could stand up on its own....associating this movie with former male dominated cast suggests that women need the help from the fellas.... which everyone knows is not true... its mind bogglingly stupid... its like the producers are begging for negative press....

Robocop.... total recall.... ghostbusters... ugh... Hollywood keeps making these shitty reboots because foreign audiences eat it up... Christ in a onesie, they suck.

Yeah, how about an "original" heist flick with a female cast, written from a female perspective? Fuck reboots. It's tired.

[Channel4s-JonSnow]

15 minutes ago, Risto said:

I totally get it and I do want to see more women (and variety of minorities) on screen but I am not the sure this is the right way. It feels as the empty gesture. Like "Black Panther" movie and Disney bragging that 80% of the cast will be African-American. Seriously? You are making a movie about imaginary country in southern Africa and the cast is black (apologies if I offended anyone by using it)? Gimme a break. The same thing goes here... But this parading has become such a distasteful practice.

A bit off-topic:

Just to stress out how annoyed I am with this parading of so-called equality. Serbia got its first gay minister and I can feel that the minister in question will be used as a "proof" to how progressive our society is. Well, it isn't. And the fact that Parliament didn't need 2 hours before descending into talk about that, just proves it.

/rant. Thanks for sympathetic ear  

Good post, that's pretty much how I feel about it too. These all female remakes just seem like a 'wooh look how progressive we are' statement. But they mean nothing if everything else they make is exactly the same. If all their other movies feature women as background, playing the same old roles then it doesn't matter. 

[Dr. Pepper]

28 minutes ago, Risto said:

I totally get it and I do want to see more women (and variety of minorities) on screen but I am not the sure this is the right way. It feels as the empty gesture. Like "Black Panther" movie and Disney bragging that 80% of the cast will be African-American. Seriously? You are making a movie about imaginary country in southern Africa and the cast is black (apologies if I offended anyone by using it)? Gimme a break. The same thing goes here... But this parading has become such a distasteful practice.

 

 

I guess I don't have the issues the straight white men others have with women, POC and other minorities front and center in my entertainment.  I ask for these things and I'm glad they are being delivered. If they're going to keep going with the superhero films, diversify the casts, if they are going to remake trashy movies, diversify the casts.  It doesn't mean that I don't also want Hollywood to do better outside of the sequel/prequel/remark/superhero/zombie genres.  I do. It just means that I'm glad they are doing better in some areas.  I'm certainly not glad to see the constant pushback when women centered or women led casts receive.  

[Joe Pesci]

1 hour ago, Manhole Eunuchsbane said:

Yeah, how about an "original" heist flick with a female cast, written from a female perspective? Fuck reboots. It's tired.

Nailed it. Make this movie under a different name, and I wonder if this would even be a topic of discussion? I'm all for way more diversity in all the visual mediums, but using 'Ocean' in the title hamstrings this movie right off the bat imo because people will associate it with Clooney and Co. and call it a crappy knockoff before even seeing a trailer, getting it the Ghostbusters treatment. Use an original title, and give the movie a chance to stand on its own two legs.

 

[Dr. Pepper]

In other words, "Hey women, stay out of the men's club"

[KiDisaster]

2 many womz in my male power fantasies hollywood plz stahp

[Joe Pesci]

1 hour ago, Dr. Pepper said:

In other words, "Hey women, stay out of the men's club"

If this is directed at me, yeah not what I said at all.

[Manhole Eunuchsbane]

1 hour ago, Dr. Pepper said:

In other words, "Hey women, stay out of the men's club"

In other words, exercise some fucking creativity. 

[Dr. Pepper]

52 minutes ago, Joe Pesci said:

If this is directed at me, yeah not what I said at all.

True.  What you actually said was that the women will be compared to the men and will not measure up.  I was just being nice about it.

41 minutes ago, Manhole Eunuchsbane said:

In other words, exercise some fucking creativity. 

I know it's a novel skill for some here, but many people can actually support multiple things at once. One can want Hollywood to be more creative and do more than put out superhero movies or remakes of superhero movies or sequels to shitty Independence Day or Ocean's Eleven and yet still be excited when these uncreative endeavors feature all women casts or POC leads or LGBT characters.  The difference in reaction the a new Independence Day movie and this one is stark.  With ID, people were just commenting on the general uncreativity and what-the-fuckery of making another shitty ID movie.  With O8, it's about how women led casts are just a trend or are just a money grab or are just parading around or won't measure up to the men or should just do something else.

Commentary that touches exclusively on the lack of creativity is one thing, bemoaning the fact that women are being afforded the same opportunities as men to participate in this uncreative yet high earning industry is quite another.  

[Manhole Eunuchsbane]

4 minutes ago, Dr. Pepper said:

I know it's a novel skill for some here, but many people can actually support multiple things at once. One can want Hollywood to be more creative and do more than put out superhero movies or remakes of superhero movies or sequels to shitty Independence Day or Ocean's Eleven and yet still be excited when these uncreative endeavors feature all women casts or POC leads or LGBT characters.  The difference in reaction the a new Independence Day movie and this one is stark.  With ID, people were just commenting on the general uncreativity.  With O8, it's about how women led casts are just a trend or are just a money grab or are just parading around or won't measure up to the men.  

Commentary that touches exclusively on the lack of creativity is one thing, bemoaning the fact that women are being afforded the opportunity to participate in this uncreative yet high earning industry right alongside the men is quite another.  

 Well put me down as someone who "doesn't have the skill" to support another uncreative Hollywood money grab of a fad. I have no problem with an all female cast in a general sense. I loved Bridemaids. I dug Pitch Perfect. Mean Girls is one of the best Teenage Sex Comedies ever made. This "Let's do X but with an all female cast" is what I have an issue with. If that is the crux or the hook of the movie, I have zero interest in it. That goes with reboots in general. Add this new gimmicky, fucking hack, lazy-ass trend to it, and I have to shake my head.   

[Dr. Pepper]

1 minute ago, Manhole Eunuchsbane said:

 Well put me down as someone who "doesn't have the skill" to support another uncreative Hollywood money grab of a fad. I have no problem with an all female cast in a general sense. I loved Bridemaids. I dug Pitch Perfect. Mean Girls is one of the best Teenage Sex Comedies ever made. This "Let's do X but with an all female cast" is what I have an issue with. If that is the crux or the hook of the movie, I have zero interest in it. That goes with reboots in general. Add this new gimmicky, fucking hack, lazy-ass trend to it, and I have to shake my head.   

Sure.  Just understand that this position is an incredibly sexist one. 

[Joe Pesci]

6 minutes ago, Dr. Pepper said:

True.  What you actually said was that the women will be compared to the men and will not measure up.  I was just being nice about it.

I never said they wouldn't measure up, I said they won't even get the chance to measure up because of the name. That's what happened to Ghostbusters, and that's what unfortunately will happen to Oceans 8. Not associating this movie with the Ocean's 11 movies at all is really simple. Calling it Ocean's 8 is a lazy name recognition grab instead of using the names of the stars to drive the film.

[Dr. Pepper]

1 minute ago, Joe Pesci said:

I never said they wouldn't measure up, I said they won't even get the chance to measure up because of the name. That's what happened to Ghostbusters, and that's what unfortunately will happen to Oceans 8. Not associating this movie with the Ocean's 11 movies at all is really simple. Calling it Ocean's 8 is a lazy name recognition grab instead of using the names of the stars to drive the film.

Why?  It's still an Ocean's movie.  Remakes and sequels tend to keep the names, but for some reason a vast number of men seem to think it shouldn't happen when women are involved.

It's a given that women are going to be attacked by sexist commentary (just look at this thread, which is pretty much a perfect mirror of the same misogyny spewing on Twitter about this right now).  That's not a reason to not provide them with equal opportunities.  

[Raja]

58 minutes ago, Manhole Eunuchsbane said:

In other words, exercise some fucking creativity. 

You haven't seen the movie, you haven't seen the trailer. You know nothing about what direction the movie is going to take. All you know is that it's a heist film with an ensemble cast. Maybe wait until you have SOME idea about what the movie is going to be or better yet, wait till you watch the movie? 

I'm with Dr. Pepper on this.