Kadence Posted August 13, 2016 Share Posted August 13, 2016 I'm looking for authors who do politics as amazing as Martin does - that layered complexity, careful authorial planning, characters who act like they should after some other event happens, the surprises and carefully crafted climaxes - all of that and more. What authors out there are like this? The genre doesn't really matter, I can read most anything. The only thing I've ever read that had anything like the depth and complexity of ASOIAF was War and Peace, which I loved. But I'm hungry for more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
polishgenius Posted August 13, 2016 Share Posted August 13, 2016 The Casual Vacancy by JK Rowling does this sort of thing on a small, village scale. Although it's pretty depressing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kadence Posted August 28, 2016 Author Share Posted August 28, 2016 Anyone else have any other recommendations? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Selig Posted August 28, 2016 Share Posted August 28, 2016 Cyteen by C. J. Cherryh is really good at this. The main character is the rarest of literary creation - a believable genius manipulator who succeeed thanks to her skills and smarts, not because the other characters are idiots to make her look good. There are all kinds of manipulation and plotting and it's all beautifully interwoven. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Werthead Posted August 29, 2016 Share Posted August 29, 2016 KJ Parker does politics pretty well in The Folding Knife, but it's not his primary focus. Stephen Donaldson's politics in The Gap saga are pretty good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sologdin Posted August 30, 2016 Share Posted August 30, 2016 by 'politics,' do we mean court intrigue? because dark ages fantasy doesn't really have 'politics' in the normal sense--there's barely a polis in manorialist feudalism, and asoiaf hardly constitutes an exception--even though it is the heptarchy meets the war of the roses, there is no parliament, not even an inchoate witan--though there is an anachronistic curia regis, it barely matters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iskaral Pust Posted August 30, 2016 Share Posted August 30, 2016 On August 28, 2016 at 5:07 PM, David Selig said: Cyteen by C. J. Cherryh is really good at this. The main character is the rarest of literary creation - a believable genius manipulator who succeeed thanks to her skills and smarts, not because the other characters are idiots to make her look good. There are all kinds of manipulation and plotting and it's all beautifully interwoven. That's high praise, I'll have to check it out. I thought KJ Parker's Folding Knife was unrealistic in this regard. It's hard to write a genius manipulator because mostly it feels like the machinations are pretty simple and the author is generously assisting their amazing success (see Locke Lamora). For political machinations with layers, complexity and unexpected reversals, I recall David Wingrove's Chung Kuo series being pretty good. I read the original series of 10 books but it was republished recently as an even longer series with some additional and improved story. But that's SF rather than fantasy. Also Shogun by James Clavell is a historical fiction where political maneuvering is central to the plot, even if the POV narrator/protagonist doesn't always understand it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jo498 Posted August 30, 2016 Share Posted August 30, 2016 I can't give a specific example but there must be quite a bit of historical fiction with decently done court intrigue or political maneuvres. Of Ranke Graves "I, Claudius" I only read an abridged translation years ago but it should be worth a try. One of the later Judge Dee mysteries takes place at the Emperor's court (probably "The Emperor's Pearl" or a similar title). The political plotline of Vance's "Lyonesse" was probably one inspiration for Martin and there is some maneuvering and double crossing but it is no way as involved as the King's Landing plotline in ASoIaF. Or try John le Carré... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth Richard II Posted August 30, 2016 Share Posted August 30, 2016 Robert Harris Cicero books. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kadence Posted September 2, 2016 Author Share Posted September 2, 2016 Thanks for the suggestions guys. On August 29, 2016 at 9:05 PM, sologdin said: by 'politics,' do we mean court intrigue? because dark ages fantasy doesn't really have 'politics' in the normal sense--there's barely a polis in manorialist feudalism, and asoiaf hardly constitutes an exception--even though it is the heptarchy meets the war of the roses, there is no parliament, not even an inchoate witan--though there is an anachronistic curia regis, it barely matters. Politics is defined as "the activities associated with governance". It is not as narrowly limited as you are taking it. Lords are part of the feudal government, and the story is about their conflicts. The bulk of the story is also about the fight for the Iron Throne, which is a fight for head of state, and constitutes politics. There also corporate politics in real life for instance. Families have politics. Politics is broadly about power. One of the definitions is: "political affairs or business; especially : competition between competing interest groups or individuals for power and leadership (as in a government)" So it constitutes a lot of things. You are limiting what politics is. Game of Thrones might have the most politics of anything I've read, perhaps more than War and Peace. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3CityApache Posted September 2, 2016 Share Posted September 2, 2016 The Witcher series by Andrzej Sapkowski, though still not completed in English. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SeanF Posted September 2, 2016 Share Posted September 2, 2016 On 8/13/2016 at 5:17 PM, Kadence said: I'm looking for authors who do politics as amazing as Martin does - that layered complexity, careful authorial planning, characters who act like they should after some other event happens, the surprises and carefully crafted climaxes - all of that and more. What authors out there are like this? The genre doesn't really matter, I can read most anything. The only thing I've ever read that had anything like the depth and complexity of ASOIAF was War and Peace, which I loved. But I'm hungry for more. I'd endorse most of the recommendations on this thread, but I'd also recommend Yes Minister, Yes Prime Minister, the books by Anthony Jay and Jonathan Lynn, based on the TV series they wrote. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SeanF Posted September 2, 2016 Share Posted September 2, 2016 On 8/30/2016 at 6:55 PM, Darth Richard II said: Robert Harris Cicero books. Very much so. Also, Colleen McCullough's Masters of Rome series. One thing that people tend to forget about Caesar is that he was first and foremost an extremely successful politician and lawyer, long before he became a military commander. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sologdin Posted September 2, 2016 Share Posted September 2, 2016 5 hours ago, Kadence said: Thanks for the suggestions guys. Politics is defined as "the activities associated with governance". It is not as narrowly limited as you are taking it. Lords are part of the feudal government, and the story is about their conflicts. The bulk of the story is also about the fight for the Iron Throne, which is a fight for head of state, and constitutes politics. There also corporate politics in real life for instance. Families have politics. Politics is broadly about power. One of the definitions is: "political affairs or business; especially : competition between competing interest groups or individuals for power and leadership (as in a government)" So it constitutes a lot of things. You are limiting what politics is. Game of Thrones might have the most politics of anything I've read, perhaps more than War and Peace. fairly certain that the term politics is quite a bit broader in significance than all that (we might meaningfully discuss the politics of an apple, say), though the tenor of the original question limited it to mere governance. disagreed that 'lords' are necessarily part of 'feudal government [sic],' which is not something that obviously exists. feudalism is striking for being a kenomatic state, something of a juridical void, wherein duly constituted authority, such as it can be said to exist, is local, manorialist, rooted in property. one of the curious things about western europe is that, despite subinfeudation, the lineages of fee tail or knight service tenure did not in themselves convey administrative responsibility or governmental authority. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
banjax451 Posted September 2, 2016 Share Posted September 2, 2016 Guy Gavriel Kay - but he's my default answer for most things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
End of Disc One Posted September 2, 2016 Share Posted September 2, 2016 I thought Bakker did it very well, especially in the first couple of Prince of Nothing books. A holy war is waged, and every noble tries to utilize it for his own gain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry of the Lawn Posted September 3, 2016 Share Posted September 3, 2016 I submit the works of Hunter S Thompson. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pliskin Posted September 3, 2016 Share Posted September 3, 2016 If translated books and SF are not an issue, then I would recommend Legend of the Galactic Heroes, by Yoshiki Tanaka. The books are currently coming out in English (two already released, the third volume is upcoming in November). It reads like Historical Fiction, but in space. Lots of political intrigues, and military tactics and strategy, if that interests you. And lots and lots of named characters, a la ASoIaF. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clueless Northman Posted September 3, 2016 Share Posted September 3, 2016 Or you can just read Tacitus' History. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unJon Posted September 3, 2016 Share Posted September 3, 2016 21 minutes ago, Clueless Northman said: Or you can just read Tacitus' History. If we are going there, no one does it better that Thucydides History of the Pelopenesean War. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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