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Is There Anything On The Show That You Think Is Better Than The Books?

742 posts in this topic

On 1/27/2017 at 7:34 AM, Neds Secret said:

The show comes out each year around about the time it is supposed to (deadline time), I most certainly wish the books were like this!

STANDING OVATION!!!

HARR!!!

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On 1/27/2017 at 6:26 PM, Orphalesion said:

There are several things I thought that were a little bit better on the show.

1) The ages of characters, I thought a lot of the plot and characterization that did survive the adaption did profit from the older characters and I will say right now that when I'm reading I imagine the characters at their show ages. 

2) Margaery. In the book she hardly appears on page (the most we hear from her is Cersei rambling about her) and to me her book self seems very much Olenna's pawn, while show Margaery was capable of taking her own actions and unlike in the books a certain amount of Margaery's (and the Tyrell's) affection for Sansa seemed genuine (why else would they stand in for Sansa's family at her wedding or why would Margaery encourage Sansa to give Tyrion a chance?) or at the very least was less blatantly fake. Plus Dormer is a first class actress. Of course her Margaery was pretty much her Anne Boleyn transplanted into Westeros (but that's not a bad thing) Show Mageaery's death is the first in the whole franchise (book or show) since Renly that upset me and at least with Renly I could rationalize that, for all his gallant and decorative behaviour, he was still a warmonger. 

3) There's some minor characters I found more enjoyable on the show; Gilly (which has a lot to do with how the actress portrays the character), Tormund (which has a lot to do with the way the actor looks), Lyanna Mormont and Shae (until they derailed her character in order to shoehorn her back into the necessary role from the book). And while I find Olenna very, very enjoyable in the books as well, Diana Rigg ups the ante on that.

4) Eliminating Stannis and giving the Battle of Winterfell to Jon: Call me a fanboy, but imho watching one (well two) of the Big Five reclaim his/their childhood home is more entertaining than watching an (imho) uninteresting second-stringer take Winterfell (or having it happen off screen, we don't know yet what exactly will happen there) 

5)  Finally admitting that Jon is alive (a-duuuuuuuuuuuuh) and that he's Rhaegar's and Lyannas (a-double-duhhhhhhhhhhhh).

6) The release schedule. In a few months we'll have Season 7 (or season 7a, whatever they're gonna call it)....Winds of Winter is....where?

Great stuff, I read it all with interest.

I strongly agree about all the Margaery stuff.  I was very surprised when she died, in fact I'd have to say that for me it was the single biggest shocker in all of Season 6 (Hodor's death was a huge shocker, too)

Gilly:  Yep!  Tormund:  HAR!! (Which in this case also means "Yep!")  Olenna's better too, no doubt.

Yeah, the reveals about Jon and his ancestry were VERY satisfying, especially after we had to wait so long (5 years to confirm he's still around even after dyuing, even longer for his parentage.  By the way, can anyone reading this say who was the first known person on the internet to put forth "R+L=J," and when that occurred?  That would be very interesting to know)

Regarding the release schedule:  STANDING OVATION!!

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IMO, the clothes, ornaments, armor, etc. are very well emphasized in the show, compared to their description in the books.

btw, I don't understand show haters… For the book readers the show showed huge scenario weaknesses, especially in seasons 5 and 6; however it's still a great show.

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48 minutes ago, Nowy Tends said:

IMO, the clothes, ornaments, armor, etc. are very well emphasized in the show, compared to their description in the books.

btw, I don't understand show haters… For the book readers the show showed huge scenario weaknesses, especially in seasons 5 and 6; however it's still a great show.

I understand people not liking the show, as opinions can differ, but what I don't understand is people constantly posting on threads created for discussion for the sole purpose of derailing it.

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dp

Edited by Meera of Tarth

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On 1/31/2017 at 9:48 AM, Nowy Tends said:

IMO, the clothes, ornaments, armor, etc. are very well emphasized in the show, compared to their description in the books.

btw, I don't understand show haters… For the book readers the show showed huge scenario weaknesses, especially in seasons 5 and 6; however it's still a great show.

Have you read Robert Jordan's "Wheel of Time" series?  If you like descriptions of clothes, that's the place for you to be, cuz Jordan likes to talk about clothes like GRRM likes to talk about what the characters are eating.  (By the way, I strongly endorse Wheel of Time, especially to GOT/ASOIAF fans, cuz they are similar in a lot of ways.   Wheel of Time is more "PG-13" than "R," but still excellent.  One strong similarity to  ASOIAF is that Wheel of Time is a blend of science and magic, which makes it very difficult to say where one "ends" and the other "begins".)

As far as understanding "show haters" goes, I think it's just a matter of understanding that different people place different values on different things.  For example, if your favorite book-character has been heavily changed in bad ways on the show, that will probably influence your view of the entire show.  For another example, I think some people are such book-purists that changes are just simply unacceptable.  (I know people who are like this regarding other adaptations, too, such as other book series and/or comic books.  It's pretty ironic that some huge comic book fans can't seem to enjoy a comic book adaptation, whether it's a movie or a t.v. series, but rather, do pretty much nothing but complain non-stop cuz nearly any change from the source material spoils the whole thing for them.  In fact, I know of some huge comic book fans who won't watch almost any comic book movie because nearly any change is just unacceptable.)

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On 31/01/2017 at 2:06 AM, Cron said:

 

Regarding the release schedule:  STANDING OVATION!!

Thank you feel free to imagine me saying the line about Winds of Winter in either classical Cersei fashion or like Margaery as she gloats at her. hahaha.

On 31/01/2017 at 3:48 PM, Nowy Tends said:

IMO, the clothes, ornaments, armor, etc. are very well emphasized in the show, compared to their description in the books.

btw, I don't understand show haters… For the book readers the show showed huge scenario weaknesses, especially in seasons 5 and 6; however it's still a great show.

The costumes are pure condensed awesome in cloth form, easily some of the best design choices I have ever seen on screen. And they put so much creativity and thought into them! Giving each region its own distinctive style and telling whole stories with them (Lannister fashion is apparently copied from how the Targaryens were dressed during the reign of Aerys II due to their close ties with and ambitions on the royal family)

And I also think it was a brilliant thing to not just copy real world Medieval/Renaissance/Tudor fashions, instead they created a look all unique to Westeros. That was also the reason they made King's Landing Mediterranean to make it distinctive and unique from all the other generic Medieval, West/Middle European fantasy capitals you see in movies and shows.

The only two minor complaints I have about the costuming are that after season 1/2 they started dressing each character in just one colour/colour combination each (frequently inspired by their heraldic colours, no matter if it suited the actor, best example beign Lena Heady who, imho, doesn't look very good in bright red and gold) and the primitive, rough clothes and armour they gave the Northerners (which I can however understand as a stylistic choice) 

On 31/01/2017 at 4:38 PM, Dragon in the North said:

I understand people not liking the show, as opinions can differ, but what I don't understand is people constantly posting on threads created for discussion for the sole purpose of derailing it.

I think the only two big "hoopla" things the show made were the following:

1) Collapsing Arianne and Darkstar into one character and then putting them into Elaria's body. A lot of the things in the Dorne storyline (which is the weakest in both show AND book) woudl have been easier to swallow if it had been Arianne and Darkstar doing them instead of Elaria and the Sandsnakes (or at least if we weren't expected to cheer as they slaughtered innocents left and right)

2) Putting Sansa into Jayne Poole's role, making Sansa, Brienne and, worst of all, Littlefinger, come off as kind of dumb in the process.

Both of these things, however, look sensible and logical on paper, it was just that the execution ended up rather less than stellar and led to problems further down the road. The way filming stuff works just didn't make it obvious how bad those things would turn out until it was too late to change them on their tight schedule.

I wager if these two things hadn't happened, there would be far less angry and loud complaints. There would still be things that are less good than in the books, but that's par of the course with an adaption. Seriously, show me one adaption where there isn't a number of characters that are simplified, changed or outright derailed as compared to the source material.

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On 1/31/2017 at 7:14 PM, Meera of Tarth said:

dp

?

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9 minutes ago, Cron said:

?

I think I had a problem with a post and got erased from my phone and I didn't want to write the whole paragraph again. I don't remember, but sometimes it happens with my phone

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22 hours ago, Orphalesion said:

Thank you feel free to imagine me saying the line about Winds of Winter in either classical Cersei fashion or like Margaery as she gloats at her. hahaha.

The costumes are pure condensed awesome in cloth form, easily some of the best design choices I have ever seen on screen. And they put so much creativity and thought into them! Giving each region its own distinctive style and telling whole stories with them (Lannister fashion is apparently copied from how the Targaryens were dressed during the reign of Aerys II due to their close ties with and ambitions on the royal family)

And I also think it was a brilliant thing to not just copy real world Medieval/Renaissance/Tudor fashions, instead they created a look all unique to Westeros. That was also the reason they made King's Landing Mediterranean to make it distinctive and unique from all the other generic Medieval, West/Middle European fantasy capitals you see in movies and shows.

The only two minor complaints I have about the costuming are that after season 1/2 they started dressing each character in just one colour/colour combination each (frequently inspired by their heraldic colours, no matter if it suited the actor, best example beign Lena Heady who, imho, doesn't look very good in bright red and gold) and the primitive, rough clothes and armour they gave the Northerners (which I can however understand as a stylistic choice) 

I think the only two big "hoopla" things the show made were the following:

1) Collapsing Arianne and Darkstar into one character and then putting them into Elaria's body. A lot of the things in the Dorne storyline (which is the weakest in both show AND book) woudl have been easier to swallow if it had been Arianne and Darkstar doing them instead of Elaria and the Sandsnakes (or at least if we weren't expected to cheer as they slaughtered innocents left and right)

2) Putting Sansa into Jayne Poole's role, making Sansa, Brienne and, worst of all, Littlefinger, come off as kind of dumb in the process.

Both of these things, however, look sensible and logical on paper, it was just that the execution ended up rather less than stellar and led to problems further down the road. The way filming stuff works just didn't make it obvious how bad those things would turn out until it was too late to change them on their tight schedule.

I wager if these two things hadn't happened, there would be far less angry and loud complaints. There would still be things that are less good than in the books, but that's par of the course with an adaption. Seriously, show me one adaption where there isn't a number of characters that are simplified, changed or outright derailed as compared to the source material.

Great stuff, thanks for contributing, I read it all with interest.

Your knowledge and analysis of the clothing is far beyond mine.  You pointed out many things I never noticed but found interesting.  Have you ever read Robert Jordan's "Wheel of Time" series?  He's really big into wardrobes, too. (Wheel of Time is fantasy/sci-fi that has sold extremely well, too.  I believe there are 14 books, and I've read them all.)

Regarding Arianne and Darkstar, yeah, I really wish they had kept these characters.  I liked them more in my second reading of the books than the first (not that I disliked them the 1st time around, I was just anxious to get to the characters I already knew), and was looking forward to seeing them on the show, but...nope.  Same with Griff, Young Griff, and that Septa on the boat.

Regarding the shoehorning of Sansa (a major character) into the story line of Jeyne Poole (a minor character):  Yeah, I was appalled, and I remain appalled.

 

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21 hours ago, Meera of Tarth said:

I think I had a problem with a post and got erased from my phone and I didn't want to write the whole paragraph again. I don't remember, but sometimes it happens with my phone

Oh, har!

I thought what you wrote was shorthand code for some complex theory or explanation, or something, and I was missing out on it.

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I think the Moon Door in the floor, rather than wall of The Eyrie is a fantastic image.

The hairstyling of the women is fabulous in the show.

And yes, I prefer the tailoring given to LF in the show to the descriptions of his clothing in the book.

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5 hours ago, Prof. Cecily said:

I think the Moon Door in the floor, rather than wall of The Eyrie is a fantastic image.

The hairstyling of the women is fabulous in the show.

And yes, I prefer the tailoring given to LF in the show to the descriptions of his clothing in the book.

Thanks for contributing!

I've thought about the Moon Door (and I agree with you), but I find comments about hair and clothing pretty interesting, since I really don't tend to notice stuff like that very much myself.

As I've mentioned to a few other people on the subject, though, have you read Robert Jordan's "Wheel of Time" series?  In addition to being a great story, he seemed to like to give great detail about the clothes the characters were wearing, so if you haven't read it I think you might enjoy it (it's fantasy/sci-fi, very similar to GOT/ASOIAF in many ways, but the "magic/technology" plays a much larger role than in GOT/ASOIAF)

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On 2/12/2017 at 6:03 PM, Cron said:

Thanks for contributing!

I've thought about the Moon Door (and I agree with you), but I find comments about hair and clothing pretty interesting, since I really don't tend to notice stuff like that very much myself.

As I've mentioned to a few other people on the subject, though, have you read Robert Jordan's "Wheel of Time" series?  In addition to being a great story, he seemed to like to give great detail about the clothes the characters were wearing, so if you haven't read it I think you might enjoy it (it's fantasy/sci-fi, very similar to GOT/ASOIAF in many ways, but the "magic/technology" plays a much larger role than in GOT/ASOIAF)

Indeed, having the Moon Door in the floor was absolutely inspired!

I come to the forum from a background of steampunk, baroque music and theatre, so I know that the use of historical detail to capture an effect, an atmosphere is difficult to get right without much more research than you'd believe necessary. 

We may not consciously be aware of the rightness or wrongness of the details we see, but they work on us all the same.This is why some works (both on film or on stage) are visually so satisfying and others are not. 

The GOT series is most impressive (with a few flaws, yes). Using the Alcazar of Seville for the Doornish scenes was simply brilliant, of course. 

I don't know the Wheel of Time series; that's something I look forward to reading.

Thanks for suggesting it!

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On 2/14/2017 at 4:04 AM, Prof. Cecily said:

Indeed, having the Moon Door in the floor was absolutely inspired!

I come to the forum from a background of steampunk, baroque music and theatre, so I know that the use of historical detail to capture an effect, an atmosphere is difficult to get right without much more research than you'd believe necessary. 

We may not consciously be aware of the rightness or wrongness of the details we see, but they work on us all the same.This is why some works (both on film or on stage) are visually so satisfying and others are not. 

The GOT series is most impressive (with a few flaws, yes). Using the Alcazar of Seville for the Doornish scenes was simply brilliant, of course. 

I don't know the Wheel of Time series; that's something I look forward to reading.

Thanks for suggesting it!

Steampunk, huh?

Interesting.  I read some comic books many years ago (maybe 20?) that were steampunk and I think there was a major steampunk movie I saw (can't remember the name), and as a huge fan of science fiction I found it pretty interesting.

What's your favorite stuff?  Do you have any steampunk recommendations?  (Movies would probably be best.)

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On 2/18/2017 at 0:53 AM, Cron said:

Steampunk, huh?

Interesting.  I read some comic books many years ago (maybe 20?) that were steampunk and I think there was a major steampunk movie I saw (can't remember the name), and as a huge fan of science fiction I found it pretty interesting.

What's your favorite stuff?  Do you have any steampunk recommendations?  (Movies would probably be best.)

Your mileage may vary, but I reckon the Golden Compass https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Golden_Compass_(film) might be my choice

Or the Girl Genius comics, which you can read here http://www.girlgeniusonline.com/

Anyway, back in Westeros....

The blood oranges in the books are better than in the show.

I've often wondered if they didn't represent a homage to the mythical Godfather saga, where oranges appear just before a bloody attack and/or death.

We get blood oranges in my village- I'll never eat them again without thinking of Dorne!

 

 

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Tywin was well greater in the show that in the books, thanks to Charles Dance performance. Same thing for Ramsay (what a beast he is in the show), Olenna Tyrell (queen of thorns !), Joffrey (Jack outstanding Gleeson !), and Oberyn in some measures. A lot of free-POV characters, actually.

Not to mention all this scenes with Varys, Littlefinger...

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In general the appearances of the characters in the show was much better than in the books (except Brienne - I prefer the way I imagined her in the books).  Granted, everyone on TV is beautiful, but come on, did everyone in the books have to be bald?!  Charles Dance as Tywin, Stephen Dillane as Stannis, Jaime when he was with Brienne, the guy who played Xaro as Xaro, Jeor, Jorah (thinning hair to nice hair), Tyrion having his entire nose... lot's of great improvements!

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On 2/19/2017 at 4:37 AM, Prof. Cecily said:

Your mileage may vary, but I reckon the Golden Compass https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Golden_Compass_(film) might be my choice

Or the Girl Genius comics, which you can read here http://www.girlgeniusonline.com/

Anyway, back in Westeros....

The blood oranges in the books are better than in the show.

I've often wondered if they didn't represent a homage to the mythical Godfather saga, where oranges appear just before a bloody attack and/or death.

We get blood oranges in my village- I'll never eat them again without thinking of Dorne!

 

 

Sorry it took me a while to reply, I've not been very active here for the last few weeks (actually, maybe not all)

Golden Compass, huh?  I didn't realize that was steampunk, I'll try to check it and the Girl Genius stuff out.

I wasn't aware of "blood oranges," either in the books, show, or "the real world."  I never noticed them in the Godfather series, either.

What the heck is a blood orange, anyway?  Some special kind of fruit, or just an orange that appears in film or literature before someone gets crossed off?

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On 3/11/2017 at 6:38 PM, Cron said:

Sorry it took me a while to reply, I've not been very active here for the last few weeks (actually, maybe not all)

Golden Compass, huh?  I didn't realize that was steampunk, I'll try to check it and the Girl Genius stuff out.

I wasn't aware of "blood oranges," either in the books, show, or "the real world."  I never noticed them in the Godfather series, either.

What the heck is a blood orange, anyway?  Some special kind of fruit, or just an orange that appears in film or literature before someone gets crossed off?

The Golden Compass has steampunk elements, but probably isn't not pure steampunk. As I said, your mileage may vary.

Blood oranges? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blood_orange

 

Oranges in the Godfather saga?

http://www.destinationhollywood.com/movies/godfather/feature_oranges.shtml

https://thisruthlessworld.wordpress.com/2015/05/27/what-does-this-movie-mean-the-godfathers-oranges/

And sometimes, an orange is just an orange

http://entertainment.time.com/2012/03/15/the-anniversary-you-cant-refuse-40-things-you-didnt-know-about-the-godfather/slide/whats-with-all-the-oranges/

http://www.jgeoff.com/godfather/oranges.html

 

Ah, another thing I liked better in the series was

Spoiler

the treatment of the pigeon pie King Joffrey hacks open in the Purple Wedding.I thought the shot to the bloodied carcasses of the birds that didn't survive their liberation to be powerful. In the book, Tyrion's musings about his likelihood of being shit upon are amusing, yes. 

Off to read threads on the treatment of  food in the books and the series!

 

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