Cron

Is There Anything On The Show That You Think Is Better Than The Books?

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Two different medias, but for me basically any text is broader and my brain's special effects better than visual rendition of it by Hollywood (plus due to Martin's logorrhea - a kingdom for a competent and tough editor - the show has been forced to give up any attempt to sense as regards the plot).

But for one vital matter: GOT at least will have an end. And that's bit hard to beat.

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On 7/24/2017 at 4:46 AM, Feologild said:

I can`t think of anything. But i am far behind with the books. and i doubt that i will start reading more of the books before he finish the series if he does that.

 

 

Well, then, i suppose that the good news for all of us is that the work on the show spin-off(s) seems to be proceeding nicely.

Hopefully we'll get at least 2 spin-offs, maybe more if they continue to do more right than wrong (which I do believe they do)

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On 7/25/2017 at 9:19 AM, hwyl said:

Two different medias, but for me basically any text is broader and my brain's special effects better than visual rendition of it by Hollywood (plus due to Martin's logorrhea - a kingdom for a competent and tough editor - the show has been forced to give up any attempt to sense as regards the plot).

But for one vital matter: GOT at least will have an end. And that's bit hard to beat.

Yes, the show will have an ending, and relatively soon (maybe a year and a half from now) and that's good, but who knows, maybe A Dream of Spring will eventually be published, although I HIGHLY doubt that if it is published GRRM will have done it all by himself.

Sometimes epic stories are finished with a co-author (Wheel of Time is an excellent example; Robert Jordan died before it was done, but before he died he told his wife and co-author the ending, and the co-author finished it; the series was 14 books total).  I could see GRRM putting together an outline with a co-author, and then the co-author finishes it, and it gets printed.  They'd make a lot of money of that, so I think there's a decent chance it will happen eventually.  "Eventually" being the key word.

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On 7/25/2017 at 5:47 AM, John Doe said:

Bronn, Maegaery, Sandor

 

Also the exchange between Tywin and Arya at Harrenhal. 

Yeah, Bronn's a great example of something in the show better than the books.  The actor really brought that character to life, and I really like his expanded role int he show.

I was pretty surprised Margaery got crossed off so early.  I thought she'd make it to the end, as the last standing Tyrell, but...nope.  What a shame.  What a waste.

Sandor, to me, is about equal in books and show (a great character), but yeah, I think nearly everyone loved the Tywin and Arya scenes.  I think that stuff was really inspired in the show.

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On 3.8.2017 at 8:50 AM, Cron said:

Yeah, Bronn's a great example of something in the show better than the books.  The actor really brought that character to life, and I really like his expanded role int he show.

I was pretty surprised Margaery got crossed off so early.  I thought she'd make it to the end, as the last standing Tyrell, but...nope.  What a shame.  What a waste.

Sandor, to me, is about equal in books and show (a great character), but yeah, I think nearly everyone loved the Tywin and Arya scenes.  I think that stuff was really inspired in the show.

I hate how they killed Marg off, but I found her character more interesting than in the books. Which is fine, because she had less time devoted to her in the books, but still.

 

 

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On 8/7/2017 at 4:55 PM, John Doe said:

I hate how they killed Marg off, but I found her character more interesting than in the books. Which is fine, because she had less time devoted to her in the books, but still.

 

 

I'm just really surprised they are eliminating an entire Great House.  Now Olenna is gone, too!!! Who is going to rule in Highgarden after all the smoke clear and the dust settles from the current conflicts???

I might have guessed Bronn, but I think Bronn and Tyene will end up happily every after ruling Dorne.

And i believe Gendry and Arya will be ruling Storm's End.

So, who does that leave???  Missandei and Grey Worm??

 

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Posted (edited)

I might get some flak for this, but Robb marrying for love is one of the better changes. To me Robb just looks like a dumb idiot in the books for marrying someone to "protect their honor". There's being honorable and compassionate, and then there is being a total fool. Maybe that was the point, but it seemed to me show-Robb breaking his vow to Lord Frey because he fell in love, while also foolish, was at least relatable, and befits how young he is, thinking with his cock instead of his mind. It's a typical rookie mistake in this world. But in the books, even though he isn't really obligated to, he just marries this noblewoman he banged because "muh honor". I also think it can provide a good contrast when compared to the choices his brother, Jon makes around that same point. When it came between love and duty, Robb chose love and died for it, Jon chose duty and lived another day.

Edited by The King Of Cooked Steak

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6 hours ago, The King Of Cooked Steak said:

I might get some flak for this, but Robb marrying for love is one of the better changes. To me Robb just looks like a dumb idiot in the books for marrying someone to "protect their honor". There's being honorable and compassionate, and then there is being a total fool. Maybe that was the point, but it seemed to me show-Robb breaking his vow to Lord Frey because he fell in love, while also foolish, was at least relatable, and befits how young he is, thinking with his cock instead of his mind. It's a typical rookie mistake in this world. But in the books, even though he isn't really obligated to, he just marries this noblewoman he banged because "muh honor". I also think it can provide a good contrast when compared to the choices his brother, Jon makes around that same point. When it came between love and duty, Robb chose love and died for it, Jon chose duty and lived another day.

The fact that she was with his child is the key factor here I think. The great stain on his father's honor was always the bastard he had brought from the south, and Robb quite likely saw with his best friend Jon how much a bastard could suffer, which might have been something he did not want for his son. In a way it's poetic, showing the son stepping up to not share his father's flaw. Then again, he didn't overcome his father's weakness of not being at all able to play the game in the process, making it useless in the grand scheme of things. Still, I kinda like it for Robb's arc. 

 

But maybe I'm reaching here. I've been awake for hours watching youtube channels interpret popular movies, so I might be overanalyzing right now.

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On 8/11/2017 at 6:03 PM, The King Of Cooked Steak said:

I might get some flak for this, but Robb marrying for love is one of the better changes. To me Robb just looks like a dumb idiot in the books for marrying someone to "protect their honor". There's being honorable and compassionate, and then there is being a total fool. Maybe that was the point, but it seemed to me show-Robb breaking his vow to Lord Frey because he fell in love, while also foolish, was at least relatable, and befits how young he is, thinking with his cock instead of his mind. It's a typical rookie mistake in this world. But in the books, even though he isn't really obligated to, he just marries this noblewoman he banged because "muh honor". I also think it can provide a good contrast when compared to the choices his brother, Jon makes around that same point. When it came between love and duty, Robb chose love and died for it, Jon chose duty and lived another day.

Great food for thought (especially your screen name, I LOVE steak)

Having said that, I'm not sure Robb didn't love Jeyne Westerling in the books.  In fact, I think he DID, and just used the "marrying to protect honor" thing as a cover, or excuse, to marry who he truly wanted to marry, rather than some unknown Frey.

Indeed, there are strong theories that Robb was actually given a love potion by Jeyne's mother (who is descended from Maggy the Frog, and thus would likely have knowledge of such things, if anyone would)

But I think Robb would have loved Jeyne anyway, and I think in the books it will be revealed that she will in fact have Robb's child, and that the person Jaime met was NOT Jeyne Westerling.

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On 8/12/2017 at 0:48 AM, John Doe said:

The fact that she was with his child is the key factor here I think. The great stain on his father's honor was always the bastard he had brought from the south, and Robb quite likely saw with his best friend Jon how much a bastard could suffer, which might have been something he did not want for his son. In a way it's poetic, showing the son stepping up to not share his father's flaw. Then again, he didn't overcome his father's weakness of not being at all able to play the game in the process, making it useless in the grand scheme of things. Still, I kinda like it for Robb's arc. 

 

But maybe I'm reaching here. I've been awake for hours watching youtube channels interpret popular movies, so I might be overanalyzing right now.

Hey, "overanalyzing" is why we are here!! Bring it on!!

HARRR!!!

Having said that, as I just replied above, I think Robb DID love Jeyne, both naturally and b/c of a magic love potion.

What you say makes great sense, and is not inconsistent with my belief (both things can be true at the same time), BUT I think Robb used the "honor" thing as a fig leaf to cover the fact that he did what he desired (marry Jeyne) rather than something else he was truly honor-bound to do, which was to keep his word to Walder Frey.

I don't think Robb just had sex with Jeyne out of lust, and then only married her because she was no longer a virgin.  I think he loved her, naturally and magically.

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On 8/12/2017 at 0:03 AM, The King Of Cooked Steak said:

I might get some flak for this, but Robb marrying for love is one of the better changes. To me Robb just looks like a dumb idiot in the books for marrying someone to "protect their honor". There's being honorable and compassionate, and then there is being a total fool. Maybe that was the point, but it seemed to me show-Robb breaking his vow to Lord Frey because he fell in love, while also foolish, was at least relatable, and befits how young he is, thinking with his cock instead of his mind. It's a typical rookie mistake in this world. But in the books, even though he isn't really obligated to, he just marries this noblewoman he banged because "muh honor". I also think it can provide a good contrast when compared to the choices his brother, Jon makes around that same point. When it came between love and duty, Robb chose love and died for it, Jon chose duty and lived another day.

In the books Robb marries Jeyne because: 1) even though he conquered her home they had sex, which indicates that they're strongly attracted to each other; 2) he's feeling terrible because of Bran and Rickon's "death" for which he blames himself; 3) he's wounded and understandably frustrated and she tended him; and 4) if he didn't marry her after they had sex, her reputation would be ruined. Can you please explain where did you get that Robb didn't love Jeyne and married her just because of "muh honor"? LOL, it's not even about his honor but hers. I honestly doubt that you even read the books, because it's impossible that someone who read them would think that Robb married Jeyne just for honor and not for love.

Your right to prefer whatever you want, but to claim that the change in the show somehow made the story better is absurd, really. Out of everything I just described Robb-Jeyne affair in the books, only one thing remained in the show: Robb and Talisa were attracted to each other (not that it's believable that any king would be attracted to such a disrespectful foreigner, but okay). And you find that more relatable? LOL!

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Posted (edited)

On 8/26/2017 at 3:27 PM, StepStark said:

In the books Robb marries Jeyne because: 1) even though he conquered her home they had sex, which indicates that they're strongly attracted to each other; 2) he's feeling terrible because of Bran and Rickon's "death" for which he blames himself; 3) he's wounded and understandably frustrated and she tended him; and 4) if he didn't marry her after they had sex, her reputation would be ruined. Can you please explain where did you get that Robb didn't love Jeyne and married her just because of "muh honor"? LOL, it's not even about his honor but hers. I honestly doubt that you even read the books, because it's impossible that someone who read them would think that Robb married Jeyne just for honor and not for love.

Your right to prefer whatever you want, but to claim that the change in the show somehow made the story better is absurd, really. Out of everything I just described Robb-Jeyne affair in the books, only one thing remained in the show: Robb and Talisa were attracted to each other (not that it's believable that any king would be attracted to such a disrespectful foreigner, but okay). And you find that more relatable? LOL!

I agree with some of what you wrote, but not all.

Most notably:

(1) I do not believe Robb's belief that Bran and Rickon died had anything to do with Robb having sex with Jeyne Westerling.  I think we've talked about this before, and as I recall you infer correlation based on temporal proximity, but I don't.  Just b/c two things happen relatively closely in time does NOT mean they are necessarily causally related.  In my opinion, Robb would have had sex with Jeyne whether he ever (or never) thought Bran and Rickon were dead or not.  Any contrary implication from the books is, in my opinion, just Robb and/or other people making excuses for what Robb did.

(2)  Mmmmmm...I have no problem believing a king would be attracted to a disrespectful foreigner.  If she was hot, and he wanted sex.  There are people in the "real world" who even go so far as to have sex with people they don't even LIKE, or even actively DISLIKE.  For some people, that's a "turn-on," cuz it's "naughty."

Now, I'm not saying Robb didn't like Talisa as a person, but if he found her to be hot, sure, it's no stretch at all in my mind to make the jump from there to him having sex with her.  Indeed, we KNOW from Jon that Robb was FAR more sexually active than Jon while they were growing up (in fact, Jon was not sexually active at all).  

In fact, my understanding is that Robb had quite a few girls, and thus I don't think the fact that Talisa was a "disrespectful foreigner" would have slowed Robb down for a single second if he wanted to have sex with her.  in fact, some guys like sassy, irreverent woman, cuz having sex with them is a greater "conquest," and I can EASILY imagine Robb being that type.

(P.S. Thanks, as always, for contributing to my thread. How have you liked Season 7?  Was there anything in there you liked perhaps even better than the books?)

Edited by Cron

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Changes I've loved:

Cutting FAegon and all that nonsense

Bronn

Margaery

Arya and Tywin - those scenes between the two of them are magical, and some of the best the show has done, and we never got them in the books.

No fake Arya

Qyburn's rise (I love Qyburn)

No travelogues

Changes I dislike

General de-wolfisation

Night King being Tom Brady

Bad Poosy - the series has never had a worse moment

Total focus on Drogon to the exclusion of the other two Dragons that are just as cool

No Tyrell brothers - the decision to get rid of Willas and Garlan is inexplicable and leaves the Reach toothless

The decision to render half of Westeros leaderless and apparently irrelevant from S6 on

The Lannister's limitless armies - Apparently, one house has the ability to fully defend the Crownlands, Riverlands, Reach, and Westerlands with a fully professional army. I am sceptical.

Overall, I LOVE the show. I think it is sloppy and at times disrespectful to people who know the source materials, but hell, it's increased my enjoyment of the books 500%

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4 hours ago, Cron said:

(1) I do not believe Robb's belief that Bran and Rickon died had anything to do with Robb having sex with Jeyne Westerling.  I think we've talked about this before, and as I recall you infer correlation based on temporal proximity, but I don't.  Just b/c two things happen relatively closely in time does NOT mean they are necessarily causally related.  In my opinion, Robb would have had sex with Jeyne whether he ever (or never) thought Bran and Rickon were dead or not.  Any contrary implication from the books is, in my opinion, just Robb and/or other people making excuses for what Robb did.

This is what Robb tells Cat when they're reunited in ASOS, when he's laying a trap for her so once she tells her about Jeyne she can't chastise him:

Quote

 

“If I could wish the Kingslayer back in chains I would. You freed him without my knowledge or consent . . . but what you did, I know you did for love. For Arya and Sansa, and out of grief for Bran and Rickon. Love’s not always wise, I’ve learned. It can lead us to great folly, but we follow our hearts . . . wherever they take us. Don’t we, Mother?”

 

And this is how just a little later he describes the beginning of his romance with Jeyne:
 

Quote

 

“I took her castle and she took my heart.,’ Robb smiled. “The Crag was weakly garrisoned, so we took it by storm one night. Black Walder and the Smalljon led scaling parties over the walls, while I broke the main gate with a ram. I took an arrow in the arm just before Ser Rolph yielded us the castle. It seemed nothing at first, but it festered. Jeyne had me taken to her own bed, and she nursed me until the fever passed. And she was with me when the Greatjon brought me the news of . . . of Winterfell. Bran and Rickon.” He seemed to have trouble saying his brothers’ names. “That night, she . . . she comforted me, Mother.”

 

In both instances, he mentions his brothers' deaths. So no, it's not only about temporal proximity. I actually don't understand how can anyone read that chapter and have any doubt about Robb's motivations and how strongly the grief influenced him: all of that needed to happen (his wound and his grief) for him to break a promise to Walder Frey. Robb in the books is not a moron who'd break a marriage pact just because some hot chick crossed his way. The show decided to make him look like a horny moron. Many viewers obviously decided to find all kinds of excuses for that "brilliance" on the part of D&D. I'm really not interested in joining that crowd. I prefer book Robb, thank you very much. Because I prefer my stories mature and reasonable, not sugarcoated and peppered with childish ideas of romance.

5 hours ago, Cron said:

(2)  Mmmmmm...I have no problem believing a king would be attracted to a disrespectful foreigner.  If she was hot, and he wanted sex.  There are people in the "real world" who even go so far as to have sex with people they don't even LIKE, or even actively DISLIKE.  For some people, that's a "turn-on," cuz it's "naughty."

There is a significant difference in mentality between modern people and medieval people. Sexual revolution did change the way people think about sex. As far as we know, Westeros didn't have a sexual revolution. It is a society built on the sense of duty, not on desires and whims. Just like it was in real medieval times, at least for highborn people. And by the way, as someone (maybe even me) already quoted, GRRM himself specifically said that he resents the trope of a sassy common girl talking rudely to a nobleman. Robb may be kind and not cruel, but again, he's not a moron, at least in the books he's not. He talks like a king, acts like a king, thinks like a king, all the time... until he hears the tragic news from Winterfell. News from Winterfell affected him deeply and changed him, partly because he felt a great deal of blame. But before that, no, sorry, there is no indication whatsoever that he'd fall for a hot sassy chick, nor is there any indication that Martin ever so much as considered such a ridiculous development.

Sorry, but I have no respect for authors (D&D) who expect of me to respect a character they turned into a bloody imbecile, just because he was in love.

5 hours ago, Cron said:

(P.S. Thanks, as always, for contributing to my thread. How have you liked Season 7?  Was there anything in there you liked perhaps even better than the books?)

Do you really have to ask? LOL, I'm kidding. I enjoyed only one thing in the entire season: Filed of Fire battle. If you ask me, that was the best sequence in the entire show. The rest of the season was either utterly forgettable, or simply ludicrous.

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This thread is epic. It's still on fire!

Well, I have to say that the show did quite well the Citadel part in terms of cinematography/the library/the atmosphere (with the exception of the shit montage, although if it had been others things apart from shit it would have been really good).

However, I did miss many things from the book plot. I'd have liked to see the city.

 

Edited by Meera of Tarth

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On 9/1/2017 at 0:10 AM, Meera of Tarth said:

This thread is epic. It's still on fire!

Well, I have to say that the show did quite well the Citadel part in terms of cinematography/the library/the atmosphere (with the exception of the shit montage, although if it had been others things apart from shit it would have been really good).

However, I did miss many things from the book plot. I'd have liked to see the city.

 

Interesting.

Which city would you have liked to see, you mean Oldtown, like, other than just in a far away view?

 

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3 hours ago, Cron said:

Interesting.

Which city would you have liked to see, you mean Oldtown, like, other than just in a far away view?

 

OldTown, yes, the city like it is described in the books....

When Girona was announced two years ago to film Thrones, I thought they'd use use for OldTown scenes, it was rumoured that Sam would be there (but then there was only one indoor scene). This would have been great...

And then I wondered...maybe this year, and we discovered that Jon Bradley was in Caceres (unfortunately the OldTown scene was the one when he is leaving the city so I was disappointed again!). I loved that scene, but it happened so quickly, too quickly, OldTown would have been a great place to see an enigmatic plot like the one from Sam's POVS and the FM.

Edited by Meera of Tarth

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Great post Cron! 

I didn't read all the replies so I'm sure I'm repeating what others have said but some of the things I like better in the show: 

My absolute favorite thing from the show that was different in the books is giving Arya & The Hound more time together. They played so well off of each other I was never dissapointed. 

Also loved Arya & Tywin together. Maisie is quite a talented actress & put with great actors she shines. 

I liked that they didn't show ever dang detail of Bran's journey to the 3ER. I know they couldn't if they wanted to but I was thankful for that because even in the book it seemed to take forever!

I like that they aged the characters up. 

 

 

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17 hours ago, Lyanna<3Rhaegar said:

Great post Cron! 

I didn't read all the replies so I'm sure I'm repeating what others have said but some of the things I like better in the show: 

My absolute favorite thing from the show that was different in the books is giving Arya & The Hound more time together. They played so well off of each other I was never dissapointed. 

Also loved Arya & Tywin together. Maisie is quite a talented actress & put with great actors she shines. 

I liked that they didn't show ever dang detail of Bran's journey to the 3ER. I know they couldn't if they wanted to but I was thankful for that because even in the book it seemed to take forever!

I like that they aged the characters up. 

 

 

My favorite thing is we are getting an ending. 

I love the books and I am someone that thinks the book is always better than the show because of inner monologues and the ability to go in much greater detail and depth on things. 

Having said that, when i read the Feast/ Dance so many times I just thought to myself I really don't care about this POV. I just wanted to read about the POVs from the first three books. So I appreciate the show by and large keeping the focus on the core characters. My favorite POVs from Feast/ Dance were all from the characters we followed from AGOT, ACOK and ASOS - Dany, Jon, Sam, Tyrion, Cersei, Jaime, Davos, Sansa, Arya, Bran, Theon. 

 

Edited by jcmontea

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