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Is There Anything On The Show That You Think Is Better Than The Books?

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9 hours ago, jcmontea said:

Did he say that? He said that about Beric. Did he say that specifically about Jon? I suppose its possible he comes back in a different way

And Jon Snow, too, is drained by the experience of coming back from the dead on the show.

Right. And poor Beric Dondarrion, who was set up as the foreshadowing of all this, every time he’s a little less Beric. His memories are fading, he’s got all these scars, he’s becoming more and more physically hideous, because he’s not a living human being anymore. His heart isn’t beating, his blood isn’t flowing in his veins, he’s a wight, but a wight animated by fire instead of by ice, now we’re getting back to the whole fire and ice thing.

Looks like he's foreshadowing of JOn. He also says Catelyn is a wight. Depending on the circumstances he could be an ice wight I guess? In the showverse he'd be a fire wight because they used the fire magic (although the show has avoided saying that Beric and Jon don0t have a beating heart)

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15 hours ago, Meera of Tarth said:

do you realise that if they KNEW that the seoncd part was hopeless anyway, then it means that they are even more dumb?

THEY didn't knew. But Tyrion had to know.

Jon and Dany never even met Cersei. They didn't knew her personality, or her motivation, they did knew ABOUT HER, in general terms. So they trusted to the person who really knew her, who was her brother, and who claimed that he will be able to convince her to join them, if they will show her prove of NK's threat.

Jon did his part. The rest was Tyrion's job. And he's the one who failed it.

And here's how: supposedly he knows Cersei and her personality, then how come he hasn't foreseen possibility that in exchange of her help, Cersei will make her own demands, and that she could ask of them exactly what she did - for King in The North not to fight against her afterwards? If Tyrion planned to have negotiations with Cersei, he should have discussed all possibilities with other participants of future negotiations. He should have warned Jon and Dany what Cersei could demand. And in this case, they could have discussed beforehand, what should they do and say, if she indeed will ask something like that. Then Jon would have said to everyone, that he already has bend the knee to Dany, and chose her as his Queen. They should have talked about this, before going to Cersei.

But Tyrion didn't thought that it is necessary to prepare others for negotiations with Cersei. He thought that he alone will manage to convince her. It was his shortsightness that led to failure. You may argue that later he was the one who convince Cersei to change her mind. But we, viewers, do know that Tyrion failed, and Cersei tricked even him.

Jon's mission was to bring wight to KL, and convince Cersei and Jaime that NK is real. And in this he succeeded. The rest wasn't his job.

16 hours ago, Meera of Tarth said:

we see the reactions of Tyrion and Dany, they are furious.

So they should have done their own job better.

At least Tyrion didn't knew about Jon's pledge to Dany, but what is her excuse? Or did she really expected that Jon will lie?

I like this part of his personality. If a person is honest, decent and trustworthy, then that person should stick with his convictions, even under unfavorable circumstances. He's not opportunist like Robb, so he's a more likable and respectful person.

16 hours ago, Meera of Tarth said:

He is a fire wight, according to theauthor.

It's obvious that in GOT whatever Benjen became, Jon (and Beric) is not the same. Jon was really resurected. He was dead, and then became alive again. Like Jesus Christ or Lazarus. While Benjen was a reanimated corpse, with the only difference between him and wights, is that he retained his consciousness and mind.

What GRRM said about fire wights contradicts Jon's physical state in GOT. So show version of Jon is alive. While uncle Benjen is more like Martin's version of resurection from the books. Like Cat. Maybe in books, Jon will be a fire wight - not exactly alive, but GOT's version is different.

Read what GRRM wrote about fire wights, that's really disgusting, and that's not Jon's state after resurrection in show.

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On 11/8/2017 at 6:37 PM, Megorova said:

THEY didn't knew. But Tyrion had to know.

Jon and Dany never even met Cersei. They didn't knew her personality, or her motivation, they did knew ABOUT HER, in general terms. So they trusted to the person who really knew her, who was her brother, and who claimed that he will be able to convince her to join them, if they will show her prove of NK's threat.

Jon did his part. The rest was Tyrion's job. And he's the one who failed it.

And here's how: supposedly he knows Cersei and her personality, then how come he hasn't foreseen possibility that in exchange of her help, Cersei will make her own demands, and that she could ask of them exactly what she did - for King in The North not to fight against her afterwards? If Tyrion planned to have negotiations with Cersei, he should have discussed all possibilities with other participants of future negotiations. He should have warned Jon and Dany what Cersei could demand. And in this case, they could have discussed beforehand, what should they do and say, if she indeed will ask something like that. Then Jon would have said to everyone, that he already has bend the knee to Dany, and chose her as his Queen. They should have talked about this, before going to Cersei.

But Tyrion didn't thought that it is necessary to prepare others for negotiations with Cersei. He thought that he alone will manage to convince her. It was his shortsightness that led to failure. You may argue that later he was the one who convince Cersei to change her mind. But we, viewers, do know that Tyrion failed, and Cersei tricked even him.

Jon's mission was to bring wight to KL, and convince Cersei and Jaime that NK is real. And in this he succeeded. The rest wasn't his job.

So they should have done their own job better.

At least Tyrion didn't knew about Jon's pledge to Dany, but what is her excuse? Or did she really expected that Jon will lie?

I like this part of his personality. If a person is honest, decent and trustworthy, then that person should stick with his convictions, even under unfavorable circumstances. He's not opportunist like Robb, so he's a more likable and respectful person.

It's obvious that in GOT whatever Benjen became, Jon (and Beric) is not the same. Jon was really resurected. He was dead, and then became alive again. Like Jesus Christ or Lazarus. While Benjen was a reanimated corpse, with the only difference between him and wights, is that he retained his consciousness and mind.

What GRRM said about fire wights contradicts Jon's physical state in GOT. So show version of Jon is alive. While uncle Benjen is more like Martin's version of resurection from the books. Like Cat. Maybe in books, Jon will be a fire wight - not exactly alive, but GOT's version is different.

Read what GRRM wrote about fire wights, that's really disgusting, and that's not Jon's state after resurrection in show.

I can't find the clip in order to corroborate if Tyrion indeed says -explicitly-that he wil convince the Queen, but what you say about differnt jobs, doesn0t make sense at all.

They all have something to do, but the plan is to convince her. You can't say that JOn can boycott the plan ........because he is interested in convincing her. In fact, the obsession of convincing people about the threat of the wws was his idea since the strat.,

So saying no to Cersei when she only puts this condition and destroying the plan makes him a horrible leader, not even being able to stuck to his own plans. A plan that was for a team, not only "hunting a wight" being his job, as he was the servant of someone and not who he is.

Edited by Meera of Tarth

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Tyrion simply stated that they needed to "bring one example" of the dead to try and convince Cersei not to simply take back Daenerys's gained lands if Dany moves her forces up North to help Jon. He never really said that he would convince Cersei. If anything, he said the best he could do was convince Jaime to convince Cersei to meet with them in the first place.

Tyrion said, "Catch a wight and take it to Cersei." How is he supposed to know how difficult that would be? Jon hasn't even properly explained the way the Army of the Dead works. Literally, the most he has really said about the White Walkers was showing Dany that childish scrawl in the caves below Dragonstone.

Upon hearing Tyrion's suggestion, Jon should have said, "It's not that easy because they move in large groups and are commanded by incredibly powerful White Walkers that are very, very capable fighters and they are commanded by an even more powerful being called the Night King who can make more White Walkers and raise hundreds of dead humans in one go."

Instead, he just nodded like a bobble-head and did not pass on his superior knowledge nor did he think to properly follow up with Bran on what is going on with the WW. He doesn't even properly explain the White Walkers or the Night King to Cersei when he's caught this single wight and tells his doom and gloom. Of course, Cersei doesn't take the threat as seriously as she should -- she has no idea of the immense power that lies behind the Army of the Dead.

Everyone is culpable in that stupid wight-hunt plan but Jon (and Daenerys, after she actually saw the White Walkers and the Night King) most of all. Bottom line: he should have known better. Going to all that trouble to try and convince Cersei Lannister of all people was doomed from the beginning because they never take the time to properly explain that there is more to it than dead people coming back to life and being difficult to kill.

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On 8/14/2016 at 10:14 AM, Cron said:

 the scene where Brienne and Pod met Arya and Sandor, and Brienne and Sandor fought

Which set up the wonderful repartee between Tormund and Sandor so much later: "You do know her!"

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On 8/15/2016 at 10:26 PM, Darkstream said:

The Moon Door being in the floor instead of the wall.

Now that you mention it, that is a pretty fancy piece of pre-industrial structural engineering.

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On 8/23/2016 at 8:51 AM, EwanStark said:

Stannis leading his troops in the Battle of the Blackwater.

That was a great scene, but the way they have to drag him away reminded me of Lancelot at the wedding in MP & the Holy Grail.

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