Marcus corvinus Posted August 16, 2016 Share Posted August 16, 2016 GRRM said that a Sansa chapter will have something controversial. Could this be it? Though sansa is primarily a mother figure to SR, he is totally puppy for her. Littlefinger has probably been poisoning his mind about harry. Or how else could he know that harry wants his lands and his castle. Furthermore, harry is certainly going to be amongst robin's guard thus allowing him to stay close to sansa. This will spark a love triangle in which Robin will probably try to have harry killed and sansa will probably kill him. This will all of course be LF's plan as he arranged for the pieces to be set in this fashion. This will give him further leverage over sansa and he will be able to blackmail her when she becomes lady of the eyrie after marrying harry. It also solves the problem of getting rid of SR under whom the vale army will never rally. Or could the contrversy be something else? Lyn corbray will also be a knight of the guard. He's a homosexual paedophile and perhaps he'll try to molest SR and sansa will kill him??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dornishdragon Posted August 16, 2016 Share Posted August 16, 2016 Nah, I don't see Sansa killing Sweetrobin, she is not a killer and see has no motive, only Littlefinger killing him. However I could see her killing Lyn. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Makk Posted August 16, 2016 Share Posted August 16, 2016 Apparently the controversial Sansa chapter, as described that way by Elio Garcia, was the Alayne preview chapter “And yes, that means [Elio Garcia has] read parts of book six, The Winds of Winter — including a Sansa chapter that is sure to be controversial.” - Vulture ”As with all interviews, sometimes bits get cut to tighten it up… I’m pretty sure what I said was that I thought the chapter might be controversial in some quarters of the fandom. I guess that means it could well be controversial. But, who knows, my assessment might be wrong.” - Elio on the Westeros forum. I can’t believe that the Sansa chapter released (read it here) was the ‘controversial’ chapter that people have been theorizing about for the last 2 years, coming up with ideas of rape and poison and murder. And yet it is, per Elio when asked what was controversial about this chapter: “The sexuality of the character, which I think will strike some as discordant with their own personal image of Sansa, plus the fact that the sexuality appears without anything like even a passing nod to a certain other character often connected to Sansa.” - Elio I'm not sure where he was coming from describing it as a controversial chapter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blue-Eyed Wolf Posted August 17, 2016 Share Posted August 17, 2016 I didn't really get the whole "controversy" hype. I think Harry and SR are in danger, but not from Sansa. I think things are on the verge of unraveling for LF and he will be exposed if not dead early in TWOW and Sansa will play a role in that. She is not a killer except in the sense of slaying the giant in the GoHH prophecy, which I think is definitely LF. As for the sexuality part, Sansa has definitely been sexually maturing well before this chapter, so I don't see why that is shocking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King17 Posted August 17, 2016 Share Posted August 17, 2016 No i don't think so Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dorian Martell Posted August 17, 2016 Share Posted August 17, 2016 Sweetrobin will die on his own. He is weak, frail, sickly with a ton of emotional problems. His mother coddled him to the point where he has no agency but pitching a fit when he does not get what he wants. He will probably get injured somewhere, or the sweetsleep will build up in his system and become toxic Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kimim Posted August 17, 2016 Share Posted August 17, 2016 1 hour ago, Makk said: ... I'm not sure where he was coming from describing it as a controversial chapter ita that's hardly a controversial chapter. Re Sweetrobin, I don't believe that Sansa will kill Sweetrobin directly. She is LF's student, and he usually gets others to do his dirty work; Lysa is the exception. It's possible that Sansa will manipulate Sweetrobin into some type of danger. It's also possible that she'll manipulate someone else into killing Sweetrobin. This is exactly the type of thing LF would do. All the surviving Stark kids are being educated: Arya is being taught to be an assassin, which she now is. Bran is being taught to be a prophet, which he now is. Sansa is being taught to be a Littlefinger(ish) politician. Why should she be the sole Stark child to reject her teaching? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marsyao Posted August 17, 2016 Share Posted August 17, 2016 4 hours ago, Marcus corvinus said: GRRM said that a Sansa chapter will have something controversial. Could this be it? Though sansa is primarily a mother figure to SR, he is totally puppy for her. Littlefinger has probably been poisoning his mind about harry. Or how else could he know that harry wants his lands and his castle. Furthermore, harry is certainly going to be amongst robin's guard thus allowing him to stay close to sansa. This will spark a love triangle in which Robin will probably try to have harry killed and sansa will probably kill him. This will all of course be LF's plan as he arranged for the pieces to be set in this fashion. This will give him further leverage over sansa and he will be able to blackmail her when she becomes lady of the eyrie after marrying harry. It also solves the problem of getting rid of SR under whom the vale army will never rally. Or could the contrversy be something else? Lyn corbray will also be a knight of the guard. He's a homosexual paedophile and perhaps he'll try to molest SR and sansa will kill him??? Why LF would ever want to kill Sweat Robin? Let me ask you between a sily and sick boy with no other relative around him and a famous warrior who have his house and many friends supporting him, which one is easy for LF to control ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sweetsunray Posted August 17, 2016 Share Posted August 17, 2016 11 minutes ago, marsyao said: Why LF would ever want to kill Sweat Robin? Let me ask you between a sily and sick boy with no other relative around him and a famous warrior who have his house and many friends supporting him, which one is easy for LF to control ? I'm certain LF does not want to kill SR at this time. SR is a minor, a kid who requires a regent. HtH is an adult, so bey-bey regency for LF. And surely, LF will not expect to gain the trust of HtH in a month's time, just by having him agree to the bethrotal with Alayne, when Harry has been riled up against LF for a while already by Royce. LF wants years to divide HtH from Royce, so that by the desired time HtH would be Lord of the Vale, LF is secure in the knowledge that HtH would pick him for an advizor over Royce. Alternatively - he's just using it to lure HtH and have HtH killed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marsyao Posted August 17, 2016 Share Posted August 17, 2016 5 minutes ago, sweetsunray said: I'm certain LF does not want to kill SR at this time. SR is a minor, a kid who requires a regent. HtH is an adult, so bey-bey regency for LF. And surely, LF will not expect to gain the trust of HtH in a month's time, just by having him agree to the bethrotal with Alayne, when Harry has been riled up against LF for a while already by Royce. LF wants years to divide HtH from Royce, so that by the desired time HtH would be Lord of the Vale, LF is secure in the knowledge that HtH would pick him for an advizor over Royce. No way, Harry is an adult and a famous knight, and he has his house to back him, if he become the Lord of Vale, he would be his own master, he would need neither Royce nor LF. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sweetsunray Posted August 17, 2016 Share Posted August 17, 2016 20 minutes ago, marsyao said: No way, Harry is an adult and a famous knight, and he has his house to back him, if he become the Lord of Vale, he would be his own master, he would need neither Royce nor LF He's not a famous knight. He's a recently upjumped squire, knighted by Royce at a squire tourney organized by Royce to make Harry a knight. That's it. What House? He's the last Hardyng. Or do you mean House Waynwood, his foster mother who arranged a betrothal to a bastard girl of LF and to whom he very obviously wants to show he's absolutely not interested in as soon as he arrives? Harry and Royce are buddies. You're also completely taking my "advizor" point way overboard. Of course Harry would be his own master. Still, even adults who are their own master, tend to lend their ear to men they trust for advice. Even the king of the IT has a council and a Hand. The point is - if SR dies within a month, and Harry is Lord of the Vale, betrothed to Alayne or not, he's more likely to listen to Royce than LF. Harry will only agree if he were to fall in love with Alayne, but that gets LF nothing, cause falling in love with a girl does not make a guy fall in love with the father. And LF knows it. And that's why it's not in LF's interest to have SR killed now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Weirwoods Eyes Posted August 17, 2016 Share Posted August 17, 2016 12 hours ago, Marcus corvinus said: GRRM said that a Sansa chapter will have something controversial. Could this be it? Though sansa is primarily a mother figure to SR, he is totally puppy for her. Littlefinger has probably been poisoning his mind about harry. Or how else could he know that harry wants his lands and his castle. Furthermore, harry is certainly going to be amongst robin's guard thus allowing him to stay close to sansa. This will spark a love triangle in which Robin will probably try to have harry killed and sansa will probably kill him. This will all of course be LF's plan as he arranged for the pieces to be set in this fashion. This will give him further leverage over sansa and he will be able to blackmail her when she becomes lady of the eyrie after marrying harry. It also solves the problem of getting rid of SR under whom the vale army will never rally. Or could the contrversy be something else? Lyn corbray will also be a knight of the guard. He's a homosexual paedophile and perhaps he'll try to molest SR and sansa will kill him??? As Makk pointed out, the Alayne chapter, was the "controversial" chapter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Weirwoods Eyes Posted August 17, 2016 Share Posted August 17, 2016 11 hours ago, Makk said: Apparently the controversial Sansa chapter, as described that way by Elio Garcia, was the Alayne preview chapter “And yes, that means [Elio Garcia has] read parts of book six, The Winds of Winter — including a Sansa chapter that is sure to be controversial.” - Vulture ”As with all interviews, sometimes bits get cut to tighten it up… I’m pretty sure what I said was that I thought the chapter might be controversial in some quarters of the fandom. I guess that means it could well be controversial. But, who knows, my assessment might be wrong.” - Elio on the Westeros forum. I can’t believe that the Sansa chapter released (read it here) was the ‘controversial’ chapter that people have been theorizing about for the last 2 years, coming up with ideas of rape and poison and murder. And yet it is, per Elio when asked what was controversial about this chapter: “The sexuality of the character, which I think will strike some as discordant with their own personal image of Sansa, plus the fact that the sexuality appears without anything like even a passing nod to a certain other character often connected to Sansa.” - Elio I'm not sure where he was coming from describing it as a controversial chapter IIRC the controversy was that it was the first time there had been no mention directly of Sandor Clegane in a Sansa chapter. But when you read carefully the Hound is in fact still present in this chapter through symbolism. But even so. I don't personally think that controversial. I think the bond between the two characters is strong enough to withstand one chapter which does not directly have her thinking of him. Though of course some may feel differently. Oh, and yes the mere hint at anything involving sexuality and Sansa often causes extreme reactions from some fans. people seem absolutely resolute in their refusal to accept that young women have any sexuality. Though this aspect of the fandom seems to have hugely calmed down of late. As an aside, my own theory on what would make this chapter controversial was that Sansa would have a wank. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shouldve Taken The Black Posted August 17, 2016 Share Posted August 17, 2016 13 hours ago, Marcus corvinus said: This will spark a love triangle in which Robin will probably try to have harry killed and sansa will probably kill him. I think “probably” is a bit of a stretch. “Possibly”, maybe, although even then this is all really conjecture. I don’t see how Robin wanting someone killed would really make any difference at this point in the story, as he has no power whatsoever. He’s constantly demanding that people be made to fly, and no-one pays attention. 13 hours ago, Marcus corvinus said: Lyn corbray will also be a knight of the guard. He's a homosexual paedophile and perhaps he'll try to molest SR and sansa will kill him??? Again, a bit of a stretch. Corbray would have to be bonkers to try to molest the Lord of the Eyrie. Also, if he did so, why just murder him? Surely there would be legal methods of dealing with this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SeanF Posted August 17, 2016 Share Posted August 17, 2016 1 hour ago, The Weirwoods Eyes said: As an aside, my own theory on what would make this chapter controversial was that Sansa would have a wank. That would certainly have generated some heated argument. I was rather hoping that it would be Sansa killing Sweetrobin, after being talked into it by LF, but I never expected that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blue-Eyed Wolf Posted August 17, 2016 Share Posted August 17, 2016 Sansa clearly doesn't know SR is being poisoned. In her private thoughts, she wishes for SR to marry one day to a wife that will love his hair. That's not a consistent thought with someone who knows he's going to die soon. The chapter is written to raise our eyebrows for sure, but on closer reading Sansa' s mothering has been helping to undo the toxic parenting he's had so far. I personally don't believe SR is naturally sick. I think he was kept frail and infantile through poor nutrition, lack of healthy social environment and excercise, and positive reinforcement of his "fits" through coddling and of course the drugging. I think Sansa is approaching the maester's warning about sweetsleep is if she can stop the fits to begin with therefore he would not need the sweetsleep. Her parenting techniques have been encouraging him to act like a stronger,independent young man instead of a baby. Yes, she does get angry and frustrated with him, but only when he's being obstinate and insisting on inappropriate behavior: like attempting to breastfeed on her, or constantly wanting to sleep in her bed, and wrecking the snow castle. Doesn't mean she wants to suddenly descend into kinslaying. She's just giving him some discipline and not just kindness. A strong, healthy young Robert runs counter to LF's plans. I do think a sickly SR and a beautiful betrothed with a large dowry are just bait for HtH. Maybe the plot is actually to frame HtH for SR' s murder and dispose of two claims on the Eyrie at once. I don't this is actually going to pan out and there are clues LF's lies are starting to unravel. All it takes are the people involved to put their respective puzzle pieces together. Sansa has tolerated Petyr's less-than-fatherly kisses on her for now because she still thinks he did save her life twice (KL and Lysa) plus she's still wanted for regicide in the outside world. When it's been revealed that LF was actually the one that caused all this plus her family's destruction, that giant's head is going to get taken off. Maybe saving SR' s life in the process leading to the desperately needed Vale armies to turn this war around. Also I agree that the Hound is present in the Alayne chapter via his surrogate: Lothar Brune, the only guy she compares to Sandor that comes out favorably. She also thinks Mya and he are a good match despite differences in age and social class. Not only is that a stand-in for her own desires, facilitating the couple might help turn Petyr's man to her side. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Fattest Leech Posted August 17, 2016 Share Posted August 17, 2016 @Blue-Eyed Wolf great summary. Sansa is being set to weild some power in the not too distant future, and I can't wait. I almost think that part of her training with Sweetrobin is for a future reunion with Rickon? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ashes Of Westeros Posted August 17, 2016 Share Posted August 17, 2016 Everyone expects SR to die, but he's alive and doing pretty well, I agree that he would probably live. SR knows about HtH's ambitions, so he isn't hat stupid. Sansa has no reason to kill him (though he ruined her snow castle, haha), as long as SR lives, the status quo in Vale remains and LF can't carry out his plans. But time isn't on LF's side, the longer he waits the higher risk that lords of the Vale will discern his intentions or that SR growing up will make own decisions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marcus corvinus Posted August 17, 2016 Author Share Posted August 17, 2016 8 hours ago, Shouldve Taken The Black said: I think “probably” is a bit of a stretch. “Possibly”, maybe, although even then this is all really conjecture. I don’t see how Robin wanting someone killed would really make any difference at this point in the story, as he has no power whatsoever. He’s constantly demanding that people be made to fly, and no-one pays attention. Again, a bit of a stretch. Corbray would have to be bonkers to try to molest the Lord of the Eyrie. Also, if he did so, why just murder him? Surely there would be legal methods of dealing with this. If any one found out Lyn corbray did or tried to molest SR, house arryn would be finished. They are already in a precarious position and most of the vale laugh at their petty lord. A legal proceedings would cause a mass scandal which could even drag in the iron throne as it is in the crown's interests to keep a watchful eye on the great houses. Lyn corbray is nearly the Trevor Phillips of the vale, he's an unstoppable fighter and that is his one and only asset. He doesn't think that much, he just acts. He's extremely short tempered and overconfident as show when he nearly murdered a man just for wanting to spar with him. Men like him suffer from a god complex due to their physical ability to hurt anyone Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BricksAndSparrows Posted August 17, 2016 Share Posted August 17, 2016 I hope not! I like Sweet Robin. I can't help it. GRRM is the king of the twist, so I'm hoping Sweet Robin will turn out to be a decent guy, or a great lord/warrior. The poor kid was so fucked up and twisted by Lysa. I'm hoping he gets a second chance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.