What do you think Robert would have done if he discovered his children were Jaime's?

[The Ice Wolf of Loki]

Depends on how hot headed he is.

If they in his presence when he finds out hell kill them all in a blind rage. 

If he's given enough time to think, Jamie and Cersei will stand trial, be found guilty, Jamie will be publicly tortured to death, Cersie publicly humiliated and then put to death, Tywin will be dragged to Kings Landing and force to watch all this, Joffrey will probably say something ill advised in his situation and be killed. Lancel and Pycelle will go too as will all the Lannister guards in the City as they will be implicated in the conspiracy (even though there wasn't one), there will be a Lannister corpse strung up at every mile post from Kings Landing to Casterley Rock.

Tommen and Myrcella to be forced to marry with Tommen named the heir to Casterly Rock and not granted the name Lannister to further humiliate the house.

Joffrey is dead pretty much no matter what because he is bound to do something that he could only ever get away with by being the prince.

[HoodedCrow]

I think Robert would just have Cersei and Jaime killed. He is not bound by a Magna Carta. He would have to make a deal with Tywin after the fact, but if needed he could have him tried with an excuse. Perhaps Robert was too lazy to see this through by sloth, not even rage.

He could have the kids killed but the easiest thing to do would be name Ned or someone else his heir and send Myrcella to be raised as a Septa, bound for celibacy and the same for Tommen. Make Tommen a clerk priest for some lower Septon. Joffrey would have to be declared illegitimate and disappeared. Myrepcella and Tommen as bastards could also be married to a lowly house with a small income dependent on loyalty. All those things happened eventually to Edward IV's kids.

 

[dariopatke]

I can see him killing twins (Jon/Ned might opose, but wouldnt argue too much, Ned cared more about kids being alive than her), returning bastards to Tywin and Tywin would have to accept the fact that Tyrion is his heir. At that moment he might begin to agressively scheem to depose Robert but would soon relaise it can not be done. It is likely that Marge will be next Queen like Renly proposed and as proof of kids bastardy Robert just might bring Mya, Gendry and Edric to court and Barra if Ned is Hand, maybe even legitimising Edric in case something happens to Robert (but unlikely if Marge is Queen because if would have been middle finger to Tyrells to have half-Florent bastard as heir ffor a while).

Someone mentioned that there might be a trial and Cersei might pick tbc with Jaime as a champion, but there is one slot free in KG and I guess Loras would have been new KG so that would be interesting.But I could also see Robert naming someone random to KG if he has a chance to win.

[Boarsbane]

50 minutes ago, HoodedCrow said:

I think Robert would just have Cersei and Jaime killed. He is not bound by a Magna Carta. He would have to make a deal with Tywin after the fact, but if needed he could have him tried with an excuse. Perhaps Robert was too lazy to see this through by sloth, not even rage.

He could have the kids killed but the easiest thing to do would be name Ned or someone else his heir and send Myrcella to be raised as a Septa, bound for celibacy and the same for Tommen. Make Tommen a clerk priest for some lower Septon. Joffrey would have to be declared illegitimate and disappeared. Myrepcella and Tommen as bastards could also be married to a lowly house with a small income dependent on loyalty. All those things happened eventually to Edward IV's kids.

 

Why would he name Ned his heir and why would naming someone not even remotely related to him his heir be the easy thing to do? He has two younger brothers afterall.

[1000th Lord Commander]

He would have killed them all. Ceresi, Jamie, the children, Tywin, possibly Tyrion if he was close enough. Had any of the westerners raised a hint of rebellion he would have called his banners and smashed every castle between the Golden Tooth and the Rock. The rage of a cuckolded king would have been terrible to behold.

[Rob Storm]

Tywin would have gone to war immediately.  At that point his whole future it torched.  Even if Jaime wins a Trial by Combat, Robert can  deny an heir instantly.  Even if Robert died it would have been Tywin vs Ned if Cersei and the kids were locked up before the coup in a westerosi civil war and the mite of the wastelands vs probably Ned and Stannis and it would be interesting to see Renly's plan.  

[Shouldve Taken The Black]

7 hours ago, The Ice Wolf of Loki said:

Tommen and Myrcella to be forced to marry with Tommen named the heir to Casterly Rock and not granted the name Lannister to further humiliate the house.

Wait, what? You think Robert's response to finding out "his" children are the product of incest is to force two of them to fuck and give them the most powerful region in the realm? That's some screwed up logic. I think I love you.

[devilish]

Eddard was banking on a Robert Baratheon that didn't existed anymore. Someone whose fury was able to smash his enemy into pieces. That man was long gone. Robert was a broken man who lived within Tywin's deep pockets, who hated ruling and was working hard to get his early run to the grave. With Jon Arryn gone and with so many Lannisters around, Robert didn't felt safe anymore and hence he wanted Eddard to be around. I won't be surprised if he suspected that his kids weren't his and just turned a blind eye to all of it. 

[siyxx]

Most likely he'd kill them all. He didn't seem to love any of them Lannisters that much anyway. But before he could act and give out the order properly Tywin might do something that ended up killing him first, somehow leaving Robert to be a bad guy in this whole business.  

Or maybe he'd just turn a blind eye and kill whoever the fuck dared to mention this in front of his face. 

[Shouldve Taken The Black]

14 hours ago, Clegane'sPup said:

I’m being serious not joking around, could or would someone remind me of Tywin’s response after Stannis’ letters were sent out.

When the Maester at Harrenhal showed him the letter he told him to burn it and never speak of it again. Tywin was always in complete denial about his children, I doubt that even if Jon/Ned/Stannis/Robert laid incontrovertible proof at his feet (hard to do without paternity testing, or photos of Jaime and Cersei going at it) that he would have believed it. He'd probably assume it was an excuse to cast down Cersei and react accordingly. 

[Orphalesion]

On Robert having any warm feelings for Myrcella and Tommen; idk how true that is due to three factors 1) Robert places value on things in direct correspondence to how much amusement they give him, little people who are frequently whiny and messy don't rank high on that. 2) After he hit Joffrey Cersei pretty much blocked him from having anything to do with the children, even if he wanted, preventing any parental bonds from forming 3) Robert in GoT is suffering from a decade and a half worth of depression.

He's so messed up by GoT that it's really difficult to tell how he would have reacted. It might have destroyed him completely (all those years of putting up with Cersei, for nothing). I can picture him simply leaving the whole affair to the Small Council (as he usually did with everything) and going of to sulk at a whore house until a messenger comes to fetch him for his wedding with Magaery. He's just so brow-beaten by the time of the series that I can see him simply passively accepting everything.

From here on out it would be a question of what the Small Council decides to do with the children, and the small council was very corrupt at this point. Varys would advocate whatever he believes would keep the crown weak for FAegon's arrival, Littlefinger would advocate whatever puts the Starks at peril (probably killing the children, since that would cause trouble between Ned and Robert) Would Stannis still rebel, now on the grounds that Robert is unfit to rule?

Renly and his Tyrell connections might be the most helpful to both Robert and the children. Since the Tyrells like to portray themselves as merciful, flowery and graceful, Margaery might even be put to work to plead for the childrens' lives with Robert in an attempt to both enchant Robert with her gentleness and to portray her as a protector of the weak and innocents with the Smallfolk, in stark contrast to proud, vengeful Cersei. 

On the other hand I can also see this realization (all those years of horrible marriage to a shrieking harpy for nothing) awaking the old stormlord in Robert and him butchering his family and Jaime. Here it also becomes interesting in what state he would do that. Would he get drunk first? Would he come to their chambers stumbling from being completely wasted? Since Cersei sees her children as extensions of herself I can see her brewing up a storm of her own to defend them, which I think she'd have a good chance to do, particularly if Robert's attack is unorganized and under influence of alcohol hampering his fighting abilities. Jaime meanwhile, if he was present, might be able to defend against Robert in any case. The deciding factor would really be if Robert went straight to kill them without thikning about it (which I think would be the case) or if he'd stopp to take the King's Guard with him.

[Shouldve Taken The Black]

12 minutes ago, Orphalesion said:

I can picture him simply leaving the whole affair to the Small Council (as he usually did with everything) and going of to sulk at a whore house until a messenger comes to fetch him for his wedding with Magaery.

Actually, that's probably spot-on! 

[MAEKAR the second]

8 hours ago, The Ice Wolf of Loki said:

Depends on how hot headed he is.

If they in his presence when he finds out hell kill them all in a blind rage. 

If he's given enough time to think, Jamie and Cersei will stand trial, be found guilty, Jamie will be publicly tortured to death, Cersie publicly humiliated and then put to death, Tywin will be dragged to Kings Landing and force to watch all this, Joffrey will probably say something ill advised in his situation and be killed. Lancel and Pycelle will go too as will all the Lannister guards in the City as they will be implicated in the conspiracy (even though there wasn't one), there will be a Lannister corpse strung up at every mile post from Kings Landing to Casterley Rock.

Tommen and Myrcella to be forced to marry with Tommen named the heir to Casterly Rock and not granted the name Lannister to further humiliate the house.

Joffrey is dead pretty much no matter what because he is bound to do something that he could only ever get away with by being the prince.

Dude u just gave all the Starks a BIG orgasm......

[Macgregor of the North]

15 hours ago, Jon's Queen Consort said:

How on GRRTH can Cat knew him? Don't forget that you are talking about the same woman who didn't knew even her own sister, father and even Jon. 

Yes I believe that he didn't wanted them dead before they actively started to conspire against him. If he did they would had die years ago.

I do agree after a fashion. But it wouldn't be either Robert or Stannis. It was going to be either Tywin or a Tyrell.

She married in order to get an army to attack Westeros and during GoT we have her nagging Drogo about it. Heck MMD's village was attacked in order to get an army. 

 

Like I said, but you don't seem to be understanding, and if I'm honest I struggle to understand the way you write somethings also, but like I said- We could argue all day about how much Cat knows Robert to no avail so we will just use our own opinions and leave Cat out. Even though Cat's opinion of Robert certainly does hold weight as she had been around him enough to know he does not show his children any warmth whatsoever and would kill Joffrey without question. 

I agree with Cat in any event and this is my opinion I have formed from reading about Robert, he is not a complex character, he is all aggression and fight, that's how he deals with things. Even Ned tells Cersei to flee with her children as he obviously thinks they are in mortal danger. 

Robert even tells Ned the murder of Rhaegars children was just 'war'. He sees the murder of children as no big deal, something that just happens in war. 

Now let's look at it this way. If Robert finds out Jaime fathered his children and that Cersei has made a fool of him for years and years he would automatically go into war mode against the Lannisters. 

Now as I've stated before that Roberts view on killing children is that it's just 'war', then if he goes to war with the Lannisters he would just kill them. 

I am not alone thinking this. Characters in the book think Robert would harm the children, and I also do. And there is plenty evidence to back it up. 

Here is just one quote that shows Robert could not care when it comes to children if he is in war mode. Which he would quickly get into if he had concrete proof all his children were pure Lannister. His hatred of them would rise to the heights of hatred he has for Targaryens and he would smash the Lannisters to death, beginning with Cersei, Jaime, and their children who are actually a future threat to him if left alive. 

Now I love Robert as a character dearly but you can't butter him up as a sweetheart, he is a bloodthirsty savage and killing Lannister children, or having them killed, is something he is very capable of. 

"Ned did not feign surprise; Robert's hatred of the Targaryens was a madness in him. He remembered the angry words they had exchanged when Tywin Lannister had presented Robert with the corpses of Rhaegar's wife and children as a token of fealty. Ned had named that murder; Robert called it war. When he had protested that the young prince and princess were no more than babes, his new-made king had replied, "I see no babes. Only dragonspawn."

As to you thinking that Robert never wanted Dany or Viserys dead, I am not going to discuss that anymore because if I'm honest, I am astonished you think Robert did not want them dead. Big time astonished, to the point where I think you should do a re read on Robert as you have missed something. 

[The Ice Wolf of Loki]

1 hour ago, Shouldve Taken The Black said:

Wait, what? You think Robert's response to finding out "his" children are the product of incest is to force two of them to fuck and give them the most powerful region in the realm? That's some screwed up logic. I think I love you.

This was if he had time to think things through and how best to humiliate the Lannisters as a House. I mean sure you could give it to the dwarf but bastards born of incest might just hurt Tywins honor a little more and destroy the family prestige, a permanent reminder of Cersei and Jaimies crime.

Most likely he'd just kill them in a fit of rage and feel slightly bad about it later or try to rationalise it as Lionspawn.

[Tijgy]

13 hours ago, King Ned Stark said:

Ned knows Robert better than anyone, and seems to think this is a foregone conclusion.

Personally I like Robert as a character and find him sympathetic, but he was no paragon of virtue.  This would touch his pride, this would be shameful for him.

I see no reason to doubt Ned's assessment in this matter.

I am not completely sure we can completely belief Ned's assessment. Ned believed Robert would hurt Cersei's children in a very low point of their relationship. Ned had always been ideologizing Robert. Robert was for him the guy who would listen to him and protect him ("This was the boy he had grown up with, he thought; this was the Robert Baratheon he'd known and loved. If he could prove that the Lannisters were behind the attack on Bran, prove that they had murdered Jon Arryn, this man would listen. Then Cersei would fall, and the Kingslayer with her, and if Lord Tywin dared to rouse the west, Robert would smash him as he had smashed Rhaegar Targaryen on the Trident. He could see it all so clearly" (Eddard VII, AGOT)

But piece by piece this image of Robert Ned has gets destroyed because of the fact Robert is still vengeful against Rhaegar, Robert wants to kill Dany and her child, because of what happened in the Trident, ...

- "Ned rose and paced the length of the room. "If the queen had a role in this or, gods forbid, the king himself … no, I will not believe that." Yet even as he said the words, he remembered that chill morning on the barrowlands, and Robert's talk of sending hired knives after the Targaryen princess. He remembered Rhaegar's infant son, the red ruin of his skull, and the way the king had turned away, as he had turned away in Darry's audience hall not so long ago. He could still hear Sansa pleading, as Lyanna had pleaded once" (Eddard IV, AGOT). 

- "Ned had no reply for that. The face of the butcher's boy swam up before his eyes, cloven almost in two, and afterward the king had said not a word. His head was pounding" (Eddard IV, AGOT).

- His fight with Robert during the Small Council over what to do with Dany and her child; which actually lead to this: "Robert's face was purple. "Out," he croaked, choking on his rage. "Out, damn you, I'm done with you. What are you waiting for? Go, run back to Winterfell. And make certain I never look on your face again, or I swear, I'll have your head on a spike!" (Eddard VIII, AGOT)He even threatened to kill Ned because Ned refused to do what he said. 

At one point Ned is even thinking Robert might be responsible for the attempted murder of Bran: 

"And when you have it, what then? Some secrets are safer kept hidden. Some secrets are too dangerous to share, even with those you love and trust. Ned slid the dagger that Catelyn had brought him out of the sheath on his belt. The Imp's knife. Why would the dwarf want Bran dead? To silence him, surely. Another secret, or only a different strand of the same web?

Could Robert be part of it? He would not have thought so, but once he would not have thought Robert could command the murder of women and children either. Catelyn had tried to warn him. You knew the man, she had said. The king is a stranger to you. The sooner he was quit of King's Landing, the better. If there was a ship sailing north on the morrow, it would be well to be on it" (Eddard VIII, AGOT)

And because Ned sees this something as equal to what Rhaegar did, he believes they would kill them all: 

- "Robert could be merciful. Ser Barristan was scarcely the only man he had pardoned. Grand Maester Pycelle, Varys the Spider, Lord Balon Greyjoy; each had been counted an enemy to Robert once, and each had been welcomed into friendship and allowed to retain honors and office for a pledge of fealty. So long as a man was brave and honest, Robert would treat him with all the honor and respect due a valiant enemy.

This was something else: poison in the dark, a knife thrust to the soul. This he could never forgive, no more than he had forgiven Rhaegar. He will kill them all, Ned realized." (Eddard XII, AGOT)

And he begins to equalize his beloved old friend to Aerys, the guy who murdered his brother and father: 

- "Ned could not let that happen again. The realm could not withstand a second mad king, another dance of blood and vengeance. He must find some way to save the children" (Eddard XII, AGOT)

IMO, Ned started to become in the end a little too paranoid about what Robert might do. In the beginning he saw only the good in the friend and almost until the end he only saw the bad in him. He became too focused in whatever Robert might to do against the children so that he actually started to ignore the more real threats against him, his family and his king. He was also really traumatized by the death of those children.

OTOH Ned had reason to doubt Robert. Ned saw Robert's reaction when he saw the death of the Targaryen children. He saw how Robert reacted on the Trident. He saw how Robert ordered the death of Dany and her child. 

So was Ned right? Maybe. I do not think you can believe Ned's assessment completely. But Robert's track record is actually also not that good. He did show behaviour where he was not really against the murder of children and where he reacted out of anger (f.e. hitting Cersei, yelling against Robert)'

[Cridefea]

Sorry if I insist but I have a question, since you're all following the same logic and I can't remember well some parts of the books: Are there any proof about Robert didn't know that Jaime and Cersei are lovers?

Cause I know he should have done something if it had been public knowledge, but his reaction would have been very different.

[Jon's Queen Consort]

24 minutes ago, Macgregor of the North said:

Like I said, but you don't seem to be understanding, and if I'm honest I struggle to understand the way you write somethings also, but like I said- We could argue all day about how much Cat knows Robert to no avail so we will just use our own opinions and leave Cat out. Even though Cat's opinion of Robert certainly does hold weight as she had been around him enough to know he does not show his children any warmth whatsoever and would kill Joffrey without question. 

Cat didn't knew Jon who had grown near her she has absolutely no way to know Robert.

26 minutes ago, Macgregor of the North said:

Robert even tells Ned the murder of Rhaegars children was just 'war'. He sees the murder of children as no big deal, something that just happens in war. 

And he is right, it may was monstrous but this is what happens in war.

33 minutes ago, Macgregor of the North said:

Now let's look at it this way. If Robert finds out Jaime fathered his children and that Cersei has made a fool of him for years and years he would automatically go into war mode against the Lannisters. 

Now as I've stated before that Roberts view on killing children is that it's just 'war', then if he goes to war with the Lannisters he would just kill them. 

Utter bs. Robert had many flaws but he isn't a cruel man. He wouldn't had hurt them especially since they were the way he could had get rid of Cersei. You believe that his anger is stronger than his loathing for Cersei. I don't see it.

37 minutes ago, Macgregor of the North said:

I am not alone thinking this. Characters in the book think Robert would harm the children, and I also do. And there is plenty evidence to back it up. 

And how many of them know Robert? Only Ned who said that only after what happened with Dany. Even Tywin who hated Robert told that he wasn't capable of hurting the children.

 

[Maxxine]

16 hours ago, Jon's Queen Consort said:

Just a quick question. Do you believe that what Dany did to the 12 years old and even younger children who wear tokar was right? Seeing how Dany has dealt with children younger than she was when she married I don't cut her slack for her marriage. If she was able to kill innocent children because they were involved in their family business I don't think that there is a reason why someone cannot treat her like an adult.

If he really wanted it they would had died years ago. I believe that his loath for Cersei and the Lannisters is much more powerful than we believe and if they, Cersei’s bastards, gave him a way to get a Westerosi divorce he not only would had let them to live but also maybe even lavish them with presents, honors and things like that.

I think Dany has made some mistakes that I don't agree with. She was wrong to order the death of everyone who was 12 and older (I don't think she's ordered the death of anyone younger than 12). She was wrong to agree to the torture of the wineseller's daughters. However, these mistakes don't somehow make responsible for something she wasn't responsible. When she was 12 she was forced into a marriage. I don't understand how you're retroactively blaming her for something she was forced into when she was 12 just because she made mistakes 15 or 16.

 

I agree that he loathes Cersei. And yes the bastards technically give him a way out, but they're are also a reminder of the fact that his wife cuckolded him with her own brother. Probably the worst way to wound a man's (especially a king's) pride and honor. He's not going to be happy about it even if he is glad to be rid of Cersei. 

[Macgregor of the North]

2 hours ago, Jon's Queen Consort said:

Cat didn't knew Jon who had grown near her she has absolutely no way to know Robert.

And he is right, it may was monstrous but this is what happens in war.

Utter bs. Robert had many flaws but he isn't a cruel man. He wouldn't had hurt them especially since they were the way he could had get rid of Cersei. You believe that his anger is stronger than his loathing for Cersei. I don't see it.

And how many of them know Robert? Only Ned who said that only after what happened with Dany. Even Tywin who hated Robert told that he wasn't capable of hurting the children.

 

See you still can't let Catelyn go? Why you keep going on about how she knew her sister, or Jon, or whatever is beyond me. The point is she knew enough of Robert to come to a conclusion, shared by Ned(who knew him better than anybody on the planet) that he would kill the children had he found out his children were pure Lannisters. 

When you talk about Robert not being a cruel man you are looking far to much into the warmth he shows Ned and Jon Arryn. If you are an enemy of Robert he can be very cruel and if he was given concrete proof of the bastards not being his, he would act ruthlessly. Believe that. 

Cersei's actions to erase Robert are probably most likely to save her children as well as herself. She knows how unruly he has become, and through all her faults she acts out of protection for her children in nearly everything she does, that can't be denied. She would know that Robert would have done them all harm in his rage, hence her actions. 

Also, out of curiosity could you supply the quote where Tywin Lannister states that Robert Baratheon wasn't capable of hurting the children?