Ned had condemned Theon to failure.

[Jon's Queen Consort]

Just now, MinotaurWarrior said:

Ned never actually holds a "council meeting" in Winterfell on-page, so I don't know if Theon was included or excluded from those. But Ned's children identify his rotating meals with different members of his staff as being a big part of how he ruled, it clearly was part of how he maintained bonds with the smallfolk, and it's something Theon was included in.

We do know it. Jon mention it 

Quote

Lord Eddard had often made Robb part of his councils back at Winterfell.

but never said anything about Theon.

5 minutes ago, MinotaurWarrior said:

That the traditionalist ironborn would have been capable of mounting a successful revolt.

They didn't had to start an actual revolt, just a Iron Born Red Wedding.

6 minutes ago, MinotaurWarrior said:

Theon, as "Prince of Winterfell" is shown to be a light sleeper (he's awoken by the absence of a noise), who is very mindful of the guard (he can recite their locations immediately after rising) and specifically cautious about nighttime assassination attempts. With fewer than thirty men total, he has a guard at his door and a loyal man at the foot of his bed. He was not raised to neglect defense against nighttime raids or assassination attempts.

6 minutes ago, MinotaurWarrior said:

The ironborn hate poison. They frequently show this attitude when talking about the crannogmen, and are never shown to use it. Further, Theon would be under no obligation to eat food from his enemies, and he would likely have the service of the best and most loyal maesters of the Iron Islands (remember that there's a great deal of enmity between traditionalists and maesters.)

Hate something and actually using it isn't the same. Get Theon and the men drunk and then kill them or poison them or threw them from the bridges. Anything. If not in a week then in a month or even a year they would had died. Just remember what happened with Dorne.

12 minutes ago, MinotaurWarrior said:

Why it would be bad for the pirates, raiders, and rapists to hate their Lord.

Because they would had killed their lord. A loved Lord can change the society, a hated Lord can only fall.

14 minutes ago, MinotaurWarrior said:

The way you keep cutting my quotes consistently makes it much harder for me to have a reasoned discussion with you, but in this case I literally cannot tell what you're asking about because you quoted a single clause that I repeated multiple times in different contexts.

Sorry I cannot work with a long text that is why I quote the part I want to refer to.

15 minutes ago, MinotaurWarrior said:

Yes, Lord Harlaw is not, on his own, the majority of Ironborn. He is only the Lord of the Isle of Harlaw, one of the seven great islands. You cut off the rest of the list of types of people who would be unlikely to rebell against Theon.

No I don't think so. Even if someone does not like pillaging doesn't mean that he will be ok with tyranny.

16 minutes ago, MinotaurWarrior said:

Yes it is. The threat of execution and other forms of punishment is a critical part of medieval rulership. As I've said before, Theon himself provides two great examples of this, when his men implore him to kill the captives, saying "you command here, the offering should come from you," tying leadership among the ironborn to holding people's heads beneath the water, and when he shoots a drunkard to enforce his rule. 

I don't agree. When he should had been taught how to gain his men support, dialectics, moderation, justice, how to make him men unite, how he can reform a society, how councils works he just took him to beheading. Great teacher.

21 minutes ago, MinotaurWarrior said:

Tyranny is a very subjective label. If you think ending the state sanction of rape, murder, piracy, raiding, and thralldom, and enforcing those basic laws with the assistance of one's friends, allies, and legal overlords is tyranny, then yes, I think that's the best thing.

Tyranny is always bad no matter what. The point is to change the society not to be a tyrant which would mean that in the end you will fall. Tyranny just genocide is never acceptable no matter what.

28 minutes ago, MinotaurWarrior said:

I agree with you that Ned set up Theon to draw initial suspicion of weakness. After Balon died and Theon took the isles, you're right that many ironborn would immediately have decided Theon was weak and foreign. I think that, in short order, Theon would have been able to change their minds on the topic of weakness.

My point was that Ned hadn't educated Theon to be a leader, he educated him to be a follower and people don't like from their leaders to be like that.

29 minutes ago, MinotaurWarrior said:

Yes it would. I mean, I disagree with the premise that Theon wasn't taught to be a lord, but say that he was and he somehow lost control completely. Ned / Robert / Robb could have literally saved him. Like with a giant fleet and rescue parties and such. They had a proven track record of defeating ironborn rebels and walking away with Theon unharmed. 

That would made him a follower not a leader and what is the point of the giant fleet if Theon is already dead?

30 minutes ago, MinotaurWarrior said:

No. For instance, Quellon ushered in the return of maesters to the Iron Isles, as I've mentioned before. But there has been no effort comparable to what Ned was trying with Theon.

I don't see any try from Ned's side to help the Iron Borns change their culture. He made a weak follower whose power isn't his mind but his friends and not a strong progressive leader.

 

 

[King Ned Stark]

We don't know what we don't know.  Even though Martin does not tediously ink out on page the lessons Ned handed down to Theon and his sons, and nephew,  there are snippets here and there that lend evidence to the idea that Ned taught them all how to lead how he leads.

Catelyn includes Theon in a discussion with highly sensitive information, so there is some reason to believe he was included in, or at least privy to, important state matters:

Quote

"If even part of what I suspect is true, Ned and my girls have ridden into deadly danger, a word in the wrong ears could mean their lives."

"Lord Eddard is a second father to me, I do so swear." - Theon Greyjoy

It's true he did not raise Theon to be a great example of an Ironborn raider, but that was kind of the point.  Changing the regime on the Iron Islands would be much easier than changing the culture.  As far as Ned knew, or the crown, the Ironborn had kept the king's peace since the rebellion. A decade of compliance through the threat of force, and then instilling the lawful heir with mainland sympathies and loyalties, seems a logical first step.  One doesn't have to be a reaver and raider to be strong, or a hard man.  Ned Stark was hard as a coffin nail, but his leadership was one of justice, loyalty, and mercy; yet he did his own killing.  We have this from Maester Luwin

Quote

Your lord father did what he could to gentle Theon, but I fear it was too little and too late."

And as far as his tutelage:

Quote

"Then perhaps lord Eddard should have kept you chained to a dungeon wall, instead he raised you among his sons, the sweet boys that you have butchered.  I trained you in the arts of war, would that I had thrust a sword through your belly instead of placing one in your hands." - Rodrik Cassel

Ned was not a fly-by-the-seat-of-his-pants type of guy.  Just like he had plans on recouping part of the Gift back from the Watch, and settling it with loyal lords.  Yet the time was not right.  I doubt his plan was to drop Theon off at the dock on Pyke after Balon died and see where things went.  Ned could, and would I presume, installed Theon on the Iron Islands by force if necessary.  His children would have a stronger north, with allies in the Vale, Riverlands, Iron Islands, and presumably on the throne, with the Watch in better shape due to the resettling of the gift.

[One-eyed Misbehavin]

On August 18, 2016 at 5:37 PM, Jon's Queen Consort said:

I wrote it in another thread but I thought that it might deserve its own thread.

I believe that even if it was the safe thing to do, Ned by keeping Theon for this long he condemned him to fail as an Iron Born High Lord and eventually his death. Ned maybe had provided him with the average highborn education but Theon was much more than just an average Lord. He was the heir of a High Lord who ruled over a culture known for their brutality and cruelty. Once Theon would had became the Lord he should had been able to lead them and in order for that to happen he would had prove that he was strong enough and not a weak person from the mainland who would had never known what a true Iron Born mean. By keeping them for so long and not allowing him to go home, be around his future Lords, get to know them make friends with them, prove his power to them he made him a outcast who would never been accepted as their true High Lord.

Do you agree or not?

I agree in the sense that he's not gonna be the biggest bad ass on the iron islands (his sister would split his skull with a throwing axe 1v1) but let's remember the last successful Iron islands lord.... Quell on Greyjoy and his famous loins. What's the saying out with the old (Although Euron's making the old look awesome) in with the new (Asha was "Blessed with a warriors spirit and a Leader's wisdom but cursed with a woman's body") 

I still got Asha sitting the seastone chair in the end IMHO 

[MinotaurWarrior]

1 hour ago, Jon's Queen Consort said:

We do know it. Jon mention it but never said anything about Theon.

The fact that Jon mentions Robb being included doesn't mean that Theon was excluded.

Quote

They didn't had to start an actual revolt, just a Iron Born Red Wedding.

Except, again, that's not how the Ironborn operate. Even Euron and Victarion both seem to refuse to consider the possibility of dishonoring the Kingsmoot with violence, for instance.

Quote

Hate something and actually using it isn't the same. Get Theon and the men drunk and then kill them or poison them or threw them from the bridges. Anything. If not in a week then in a month or even a year they would had died. Just remember what happened with Dorne.

What happened with Dorne? I don't recall.

Quote

Because they would had killed their lord. A loved Lord can change the society, a hated Lord can only fall.

That's not true, on two levels. First off, as I've said before, only a faction of highborn diehards would hate Theon instead of loving him. Second, hated foreigners with extraordinary outside power made westeros. Aegon I used his dragons to kick the raiders out of the riverlands. Theon could use his allies and his executioners bucket to uproot them from the isles.

Quote

No I don't think so. Even if someone does not like pillaging doesn't mean that he will be ok with tyranny.

I don't agree. When he should had been taught how to gain his men support, dialectics, moderation, justice, how to make him men unite, how he can reform a society, how councils works he just took him to beheading. Great teacher.

Tyranny is always bad no matter what. The point is to change the society not to be a tyrant which would mean that in the end you will fall. Tyranny just genocide is never acceptable no matter what.

My point was that Ned hadn't educated Theon to be a leader, he educated him to be a follower and people don't like from their leaders to be like that.

That would made him a follower not a leader and what is the point of the giant fleet if Theon is already dead?

I don't see any try from Ned's side to help the Iron Borns change their culture. He made a weak follower whose power isn't his mind but his friends and not a strong progressive leader.

I think this Tyranny label you're applying gets to the heart of the issue of all these points. Both of us are coming at this from backgrounds and perspectives that color our readings of the book, so let me lay mine on the table, and I'll admit that I don't think anything anyone can say will change my mind on this, and I don't really expect to bring people over to this perspective if they have a different one.

I'm from the northern part of the united states. I think that, when John Wilkes Booth said, "sic semper tyrannis" to Lincoln, calling him a tyrant for prosecuting a civil war against rebels who fought in the name of their right to hold slaves, that that was one of the worst mislabelings in the history of mankind. I think Lincoln was one of the best leaders in the history of my nation, and I will never think there's anything wrong with being raised to be the sort of leader who evil men will rebel against and lose to. If you're from another nation with a different history of civil war, or you're an american with a different view on things, that's fine, we're different people, but there's no way either of us are going to change each other's views on such a fundamental perspective.

It's really interesting to realize this, because overall I think theon was a bag of dog poop, but hey, that's what great fiction does - make you draw new connections between concepts as disparate as you're nation's greatest leaders and lowest scum.    

[One-eyed Misbehavin]

 How did theon not realize the support of the ( almost) entire north for the Starks. He's got to no he's going to eventually lose  winterfell.  With or without sister and Daddy 

 

[Jon's Queen Consort]

3 minutes ago, MinotaurWarrior said:

The fact that Jon mentions Robb being included doesn't mean that Theon was excluded.

Fiirstly this is the only thing we know. Secondly Jon is jealous of Theon and during that part of GoT is a whiny and entitled brat. There is no way that he wouldn't have mentioned how Ned treated him better than his bastard.

10 minutes ago, MinotaurWarrior said:

Except, again, that's not how the Ironborn operate. Even Euron and Victarion both seem to refuse to consider the possibility of dishonoring the Kingsmoot with violence, for instance.

People change especially when your lord is a weak traitor.

11 minutes ago, MinotaurWarrior said:

What happened with Dorne? I don't recall.

A year after the Targs had conquered Dorne the Dornishmen fought back and won.

18 minutes ago, MinotaurWarrior said:

That's not true, on two levels. First off, as I've said before, only a faction of highborn diehards would hate Theon instead of loving him. Second, hated foreigners with extraordinary outside power made westeros. Aegon I used his dragons to kick the raiders out of the riverlands. Theon could use his allies and his executioners bucket to uproot them from the isles.

 A Lord who brings soldiers to opress his people is a hated Lord.

19 minutes ago, MinotaurWarrior said:

snip  

I didn't knew that. Thank you. 

In my opinion tyranny is when someone oppress the others just in order to force them to accept his actions is awful and sooner or later he will lose. On the other hand when someone tries to peacefully change the society it might take longer that this is a change that will last. That is my point; trying to force the people will backfire.

9 minutes ago, One-eyed Misbehavin said:

 How did theon not realize the support of the ( almost) entire north for the Starks. He's got to no he's going to eventually lose  winterfell.  With or without sister and Daddy 

True but has nothing to do with the op.

[GallowsKnight]

16 hours ago, Jon's Queen Consort said:

True but I am talking about Theon's education to be the next High Lord. He lacked the education to be a useful Lord and without the training he would had been consindered as weak. 

I don't he did alright once he was outside of his father's sphere of influence. Dagmar and his men follow Theon quite willingly.

If Balon died and Victarion and Aeron backed him over Asha, I think he'd be able to win them over with time. Theon maybe arrogant, but he has cunning and courage. 

[Duranaparthur]

I am curious as to what textual evidence portrays Theon as under-educated for his presumed place as an eventual Lord Paramount; we've got plenty of evidence that his mistakes aren't rooted in a lack of education or even that unusual for fully educated Lords Paramount. Mace Tyrell is just one example of a current Lord Paramount who seems a bit foolish (while not an ignorant or idiotic man), and Theon's issue at Winterfell is his desperate arrogance and desire to please his father, all wrapped up in the insecurity of being the older brother figure to the exceedingly promising Robb.

Theon's biggest problem out of hand, the one he's most unlikely to lose regardless of how well Ned tries to raise him and educate him as a Westerosi High Lord, is internal IB networking. Theon's place as a hostage/Ward means he can't be allowed to keep in contact with many Ironborn; all communication he may have has to go through Ned to prevent coordinated attacks. And since the whole point of Theon's warship is to prevent reaving, no matter how Ned decides to treat Ironborn culture, hardcore "it is our holy rite to slaughter and rape" Ironborn teachings aren't going to be allowed.

Theon's best hope as a ward under Ned is that he emerges as an educated lord (which again, I don't think there's any evidence he wasn't on that path) who's returned to the Iron Islands after either Balon has proven his loyalty enough to justify some mercy, or has died. We also know that there are some Iron Houses that seem ameniable towards "greenlander" ideas and peace from Feast for Crows, and we know that previous Greyjoys had served the Iron Throne ably, since Dagon Greyjoy is singled out as an anomaly. So Ned and Robert probably figure that when Theon returned to his people, it's going to be under their support, though not neccesarily by their installment; they'd simply be diplomatic enough about it to pay lipservice to what Ironborn autonomy there is while quietly reminding everyone that there's no way for the Ironborn to go back to reaving without being utterly annihilated by a Westerosi forces. There won't be any Red Wedding for Theon; that's not the Ironborn way, and any flagrant violations like that would risk being destroyed as well. Maybe Asha or Euron would try to arrange an accident, but then you're still stuck unable to reave against the Iron Throne.

Everything about Balon's resumption of reaving in the books is opportunistic and founded on fortuitous circumstances; his fundamentalist return to reaving depends on thinking he can get away with it, and considering he waited until Theon returns to launch the attack, possibly also secure in his line. If he dies of old age with no second reaving, than Theon's return is just business as usual.

[Jon's Queen Consort]

4 minutes ago, Duranaparthur said:

I am curious as to what textual evidence portrays Theon as under-educated for his presumed place as an eventual Lord Paramount;

What we know from Theon is that he was taught the Starks' family history, which isn't useful for him, he was trained at arms and while Jon mentions Robb to be educated as a heir he doesn't mentions Theon.

[The Wolves]

Just now, Jon's Queen Consort said:

What we know from Theon is that he was taught the Starks' family history, which isn't useful for him, he was trained at arms and while Jon mentions Robb to be educated as a heir he doesn't mentions Theon.

Ned was teaching Robb how to run the North, so how could he teach Theon to run the Iron Islands? 

[BRANDON GREYSTARK]

The fault lies with Balon and Jon Arryn . Balon rebelled and lost . Balon should have been sent to the Wall or beheaded . While Theon should have been sent to Tywin who would not hesitate in killing Theon if the Iron Born revolt again , and Asha should be sent to either to Highgarden or Winterfell . Victarion should be made Lord of the Isles . Victarion is much like Stannis , all about duty .

[Jon's Queen Consort]

1 minute ago, The Wolves said:

Ned was teaching Robb how to run the North, so how could he teach Theon to run the Iron Islands? 

Theon was an heir and his ward, Ned's obligation was to prepare Theon for the time he would had become the Lord. If he couldn't educated him he shouldn't had him at WF for so long and he should either had let him to go home or to give him to another Lord who would had been able to train him. If Theon had ended up dead or a terrible lord it would had been Ned’s fault for not had prepared him properly.

5 minutes ago, BRANDON GREYSTARK said:

The fault lies with Balon and Jon Arryn . Balon rebelled and lost . Balon should have been sent to the Wall or beheaded . While Theon should have been sent to Tywin who would not hesitate in killing Theon if the Iron Born revolt again , and Asha should be sent to either to Highgarden or Winterfell . Victarion should be made Lord of the Isles . Victarion is much like Stannis , all about duty .

I could see that but Victarion is both a brute and an idiot.

[Clegane'sPup]

2 hours ago, Jon's Queen Consort said:

Theon was an heir and his ward, Ned's obligation was to prepare Theon for the time he would had become the Lord. If he couldn't educated him he shouldn't had him at WF for so long and he should either had let him to go home or to give him to another Lord who would had been able to train him. If Theon had ended up dead or a terrible lord it would had been Ned’s fault for not had prepared him properly.

We are talking about a story in a fantasy fiction book, yes? I was wondering why it is that fans feel the need to rewrite the words of their favorite writer.

Theon was given to Eddard as hostage. Who decides what Eddards obligations are? Martin does. Evidently Martin thought it important to his story that Theon being the heir of the IS would keep Balon in line. Makeing Balon behave due to threat against Theon’s life if Balon acted up again.

Eddard raised Theon the only way he knows, as a northman.

Yes, Theon was totally unprepared for what if means to be IB. Eddard raised Theon as a ward, but actually Theon was a hostage. A hostage who could be killed if the circumstance demanded it.

I have a question for you. Theon is 19 years old in the opening of GoT. Why is it that Martin decided Theon should still living be in WF? If Theon tried to run he would, I don’t know, would he be killed or placed in confinement?

 

[Duranaparthur]

2 hours ago, Jon's Queen Consort said:

What we know from Theon is that he was taught the Starks' family history, which isn't useful for him, he was trained at arms and while Jon mentions Robb to be educated as a heir he doesn't mentions Theon.

I think you're plugging a sabotaged education idea into an area that Martin simply didn't explore; it's proof of what he learned, but not proof of what he didn't learn. And considering that each of his male children seems to have had an applicable education that enabled Bran to stand as a decent interim lord with a handicap while younger than 10, and gave Jon at least the administrative abilities to act as Lord Commander (though, like Theon, he made questionable decisions based off his emotions and dreams that caused tragedy), it seems highly unlikely that Theon was undereducated in comparison to, say, Hoster Tully, Renly Baratheon, or Arianne Martell, all of whom make drastic mistakes in a similar paradigm to Theon's own.

It seems presumptuous to judge an education for a fictional character based off what the text doesn't say.

Theon is handicapped when it comes to the culture of his people, particularly the more guns-ho lords, but if he's able enough and badass enough, it means nothing when he takes Pyke with the support of Ned Stark and King Robert. They don't even need to send armed troops, provided it's peace time.

[INCBlackbird]

I think it's hard to say whether or not the education he got was the issue, I am incluned to believe it was one of the issues but certainly not the biggest one. I think the biggest problem was the situation, that's not on Ned or Robert or even on Balon if you ask me. It's the hostage system that's the problem. whatever you do when you raise a kid in an environment where he is prejudiced just for being who he is, where he lives under threath of death he is going to end up being a messed up person. The reason Theon failed is because he has too many emotional issues to count. He's dealing with an identity crisis, relies on a bunch of defense mechanisms, has horrible thinking patterns and so on and so forth, you can't be a good leader if you're not even in control of yourself.
There is one thing in particular that stands out to me when I read Theons chapters when it comes to his emotional instability in relation with his incapabiliy to rule. One of Theon's defense mechanisms is to romanticize reality when he doesn't like it, when there is a problem he doesn't fix that problem, he's too busy lying to himselff and finding ways to obscure the truth to make himself feel better, that works when you're not in control (hence it worked for the 10 years in Winterfell) but when you have to fix the problem you can't fix it by convincing yourself that reality isn't what it is, the problem won't go away, it'll get worse.

[Demonking1381]

Even though Robert ordered Ned to take theon, Ned should have raised him loyal to the Starks. From what I can tell the Starks barely tolerated his presence at winterfell. To me it was no surprise he joined his father since the only person that really gave a damn about him was Robb.

[Arya_Stupid!]

On August 20, 2016 at 3:37 AM, Jon's Queen Consort said:

That is utter nonsense! Theon was Ned's ward, it was his obligation to train him just like what it happens to wards. You cannot blame Robert for Ned's actions.

Theon was a HOSTAGE! not a ward. He lucked out and got treated as a ward, sure. But he was a Hostage, even though he did get trained like he was a ward.

 

You say i cannot blame Robert for Ned's action? I'm not, i'm blaming him for being a neglectful king, not finishing the thing's he starts.

I say YOU are blaming Ned for Robert's neglect of the politics of his own realm. 

[aryagonnakill#2]

I'd have to give the blame to Robert as others have said.  I don't think Theon should have been the only hostage, or the only punishment.  Euron and Victarion should've had to take the black for burning the Lannister fleet, and not just Asha but the children of other lords should've been sent to the mainland to be raised as well.  In that way the people Theon would deal with then he was older would be more like him, and he would have no uncles to contest his rule.  I also think Theon should've had a wife at his age, and that could be laid at Neds feet, because obviously he never looked at any marriages since Robb and Sansa were not betrothed either.

[Jon's Queen Consort]

1 hour ago, Arya_Stupid! said:

You say i cannot blame Robert for Ned's action? I'm not, i'm blaming him for being a neglectful king, not finishing the thing's he starts.

I say YOU are blaming Ned for Robert's neglect of the politics of his own realm. 

Utter bs. Robert had won the Rebellion and his obligations had ended there was nothing more that he could had done.

1 hour ago, Demonking1381 said:

the Starks barely tolerated his presence at winterfell.

Not true. Both Cat and Ned were cold to him but Robb 

Quote

Robb who had been more a brother to Theon than any son born of Balon Greyjoy's loins. Murdered at the Red Wedding, butchered by the Freys. I should have been with him. Where was I? I should have died with him.

 

21 hours ago, Clegane'sPup said:

Yes, Theon was totally unprepared for what if means to be IB. Eddard raised Theon as a ward, but actually Theon was a hostage. A hostage who could be killed if the circumstance demanded it.

21 hours ago, Duranaparthur said:

snip

True. However Theon would have become the Lord at the end. By not educating him Ned created a really bad neighbor. One way or another Theon would had become the Lord of Iron Isles, what he was supposed to do then? How he supposed to rule them and keep them away from their Old Ways?

2 hours ago, INCBlackbird said:

I think it's hard to say whether or not the education he got was the issue, I am incluned to believe it was one of the issues but certainly not the biggest one. I think the biggest problem was the situation, that's not on Ned or Robert or even on Balon if you ask me. It's the hostage system that's the problem. whatever you do when you raise a kid in an environment where he is prejudiced just for being who he is, where he lives under threath of death he is going to end up being a messed up person. The reason Theon failed is because he has too many emotional issues to count. He's dealing with an identity crisis, relies on a bunch of defense mechanisms, has horrible thinking patterns and so on and so forth, you can't be a good leader if you're not even in control of yourself.
There is one thing in particular that stands out to me when I read Theons chapters when it comes to his emotional instability in relation with his incapabiliy to rule. One of Theon's defense mechanisms is to romanticize reality when he doesn't like it, when there is a problem he doesn't fix that problem, he's too busy lying to himselff and finding ways to obscure the truth to make himself feel better, that works when you're not in control (hence it worked for the 10 years in Winterfell) but when you have to fix the problem you can't fix it by convincing yourself that reality isn't what it is, the problem won't go away, it'll get worse.

I think that this is one of the best answers! It's just great!

I'd have to give the blame to Robert as others have said.  I don't think Theon should have been the only hostage, or the only punishment.  Euron and Victarion should've had to take the black for burning the Lannister fleet, and not just Asha but the children of other lords should've been sent to the mainland to be raised as well.  In that way the people Theon would deal with then he was older would be more like him, and he would have no uncles to contest his rule.  I also think Theon should've had a wife at his age, and that could be laid at Neds feet, because obviously he never looked at any marriages since Robb and Sansa were not betrothed either.

How typical. Everything is Robert's fault and Ned is flawless and blameless. Typical and boring.

[BricksAndSparrows]

There is a thin line between making logical assumptions, and then just inserting your own suppositions to shape the story as you see fit.

Theon received a traditional education along side the other Stark kids. Reducing that education to "Learning the names of Stark kings," is ignorant in the highest order. 

We have numerous examples of what a highborn education looks like and there is no reason to believe it was denied to Theon. Through education, students would have the very best view history: Hindsight. They would learn about decrees that were popular or unpopular, decisions that started wars and decisions that ended them. If anyone thinks that isn't a fair description of a typical Westerosi education, please let me know. 

Theon had so much at his disposal; He would have had access to Winterfell's library, so (had he been so inclined,) he could have read about various High Lords and Kings.

Dismissing his role as bearer of Ice is even more disingenuous. It means he would have been there for the dispensation of justice. By its self, growing up in the castle means that Theon would have been so much. Lords with grievances would come to Winterfell to plead their cases. Theon would know what those issues were and he would have learned Ned's rulings as well.

Look, people take internships at companies to learn the ins and outs of the business. Not all of them end up shadowing the CEO, but that doesn't mean that the don't learn anything.

I'm sick of these "all or nothing" interpretations I keep seeing around here: Either Ned raised Theon like his heir or he left him on the stable floors with Hodor. Obviously it was something in between.

Theon's problems go far beyond leadership skills. I don't agree with everything @INCBlackbird says, but she sums up Theon's personality issues pretty well.