The Anti-Targ

Are you Surprised at How Much Game of Thrones has Penetrated Pop Culture

21 posts in this topic

Probably even beyond pop culture.

In sports competitions, including international sports competitions, people aren't calling results that end in a come from behind victory merely a throw (by the eventual loser), but rather "a game of throws". Obvious reference to GoT.

So many TV shows have characters make reference to GoT, and some times much more than once. You even have character who are GoT fans. And even characters who are pissed off that GRRM is taking so long to get the next book out (ref iZombie).

And of course, "winter is coming". Even people who don't watch the show know this one.

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Still not a good enough reason to use the word "penetrate"

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It has taken pop culture by storm but it will be replaced at some point by the next big thing.

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On 8/18/2016 at 10:46 PM, The Anti-Targ said:

Probably even beyond pop culture.

In sports competitions, including international sports competitions, people aren't calling results that end in a come from behind victory merely a throw (by the eventual loser), but rather "a game of throws". Obvious reference to GoT.

So many TV shows have characters make reference to GoT, and some times much more than once. You even have character who are GoT fans. And even characters who are pissed off that GRRM is taking so long to get the next book out (ref iZombie).

And of course, "winter is coming". Even people who don't watch the show know this one.

Yeah, it's pretty amazing, especially, I think to people like me who had already read the bboks long before the show began (at least through AFFC, since ADWD was not yet out when the show began).  When I first heard the show was being made, I was pretty excited, and then it was a huge success, and kept growing and growing in popularity.

I couldn't be happier for GRRM, he deserves every bit of the success, he's earned it.

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people saying something else will take it's place... sure that's how it goes.... one pop star grows older and new one pops up. But when was the last time a tv show has gained this kind of global success and as others have pointed out... crossed over into other things like sports etc....

Simpsons, Friends.... i can't think of another show since then that has done it, sure there has been globally successful TV shows like breaking bad and lost but they haven't crossed over into other things the way game of thrones has.

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Game of Thrones has penetrated pop culture, completely. New people start watching it everyday, I just got my family hooked on the show as well. Though most of my actual friends don't watch it (or aren't as into it as I am), which is why I post on here lol

I doubt Game of Thrones is gonna leave the pop culture for decades. The Harry Potter movie series based off the books ended 5 years ago and that franchise is still going strong with a prequel coming out, and JK Rowling has just announced that she is writing THREE more Harry Potter books lol. I sadly doubt George will want to write anymore books in this world after he finally finishes Winds of Winter and A Dream of Spring but who knows (IF he even lives long enough to). Once the main series of Game of Thrones is over, you can be damn sure that HBO will want prequels or spin offs. They're only ending the main series at Season 8 because D&D want out.

Edited by Adam_Up_Bxtch

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Unless another huge, fantasy series will take its place, GoT isn't gonna leave the pop culture phenomenon. The show actually puts viewers on a whole different perspective of what you can do with a fantasy series and the tropes that usually associated with it. Setting aside from the cliches or ideas that fantasy series are just high fantasy that only involves good vs evil like Harry Potter or LOTR.

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On 21/08/2016 at 8:10 PM, House_Of_Fraser said:

people saying something else will take it's place... sure that's how it goes.... one pop star grows older and new one pops up. But when was the last time a tv show has gained this kind of global success and as others have pointed out... crossed over into other things like sports etc....

Simpsons, Friends.... i can't think of another show since then that has done it, sure there has been globally successful TV shows like breaking bad and lost but they haven't crossed over into other things the way game of thrones has.

Breaking Bad never had the level of attention that Lost, GOT, Friends etc did.

I really can't believe how popular this show is. People that have absolutely no interest in fantasy watch this. People that would usually watch trashy reality shows watch this. The Red Wedding definitely got the snowball rolling- I know so many people who started watching at season 4 having heard the gossip.

What I really don't want is for the show to revert to a typical good vs evil fight with a romance at the centre, and that is definitely what the vast majority of casual viewers want.

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GoT is all over the world of Thoroughbred horse racing. Khalisee Kat, Greyjoy, Lady Arya, Dothraki Queen .. there're a ton of 'em.

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Characters like Daenerys , Jon, and Cersei have reached such popularity, that they've reached the ranks of recognizability (if that's a word) along with characters like Batman, Darth Vader, etc. even if you don't watch the show, you know where it's from if you see a blonde girl with a dragon. 

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I would say a big issue is that it taps into  the more serious adult focused action/adventure market that cinema has largely neglected in recent years. Its audience isn't THAT big compared to say a lot of mainstream entertainment films but those who do want it love it and they also tend to be the kind of people who drive a lot of pop culture.

Edited by MoreOrLess

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Posted (edited)

On 21.8.2016 at 11:27 PM, The Arthur Smith said:

Setting aside from the cliches or ideas that fantasy series are just high fantasy that only involves good vs evil like Harry Potter or LOTR.

It has more to do with categories people put stuff into, really - Greek mythology is every bit as "grey" as GoT, and everyone's familiar with it but people don't consider it "fantasy", or movies based on it to be fantasy.

No one ever thinks of The Black Adder as "fantasy", even though it is, because it's "comedy satire" - but take away the farce and the humor and you're left with an asshole protagonist scheming against an asshole court, and sometimes they see supernatural events that are scary and they don't really understand etc.


So in that very basic sense, i.e. medieval/classical setting with grey morality and mysticism isn't anything new to audience - but now it's being sold as "fantasy" and everyone's like "omg I thought fantasy was just elves against evil overlords I had no idea it could all this" even though that hadn't really been their opinion for decades :D

Edited by Pink Fat Rast

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On 21.8.2016 at 5:52 AM, A Ghost of Someone said:

It has taken pop culture by storm but it will be replaced at some point by the next big thing.

All the silly "everyone watches Khaleesi StarkLannisters", making fun of cosplay fanboys or puns in sports etc., are probably gonna get old when the trend fades - but as far as quoting or alluding to the show to make witty observations, some of the internet memes, or just talking about it endlessly (critically or not) it will definitely survive and endure.

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As everything in the world, this too has its upside and downside. 

I'm very happy that it penetrated pop culture, because it provides an easy access to merch and GoT themed everything. I liked that you can see other people on public transport with the books or GoT relics. I like all that. 

But then, it destroyed its geek factor and simplified the story and the characters to the point where it's 80% pure people pleasing. it also gave me a superiority complex because I think I'm better than millions of fans who love the show with the slightest bit of understanding about the story or the characters. And that's not good, I'm not better than those people. In fact, they probably did sports or made money for their company while I was obsessing about a fictional story. (Having said that, it's still unforgivable to watch a show for 6 years and not know the names of frequently appearing characters)

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Actually having thought about it a bit, I can't think of any got stuff in "pop culture" that I cared for - a great deal of the internet culture surrounding it is awesome, but pop culture not so much, at least nothing I've seen.

Aside from stuff they did on late shows etc., but that's something else really.


It'd be cool to see if something like the depiction of religions in the show had some effect on religious discouse, in one way or another, I think that's fairly plausible - though haven't really seen much of it this far.

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GoT has constantly referenced in U.S politics. Hillary Clinton is Cersei, Bernie Sanders is the High Sparrow, Trump is Joffrey, etc etc etc. 

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On ‎4‎/‎9‎/‎2017 at 9:09 PM, Pink Fat Rast said:

It has more to do with categories people put stuff into, really - Greek mythology is every bit as "grey" as GoT, and everyone's familiar with it but people don't consider it "fantasy", or movies based on it to be fantasy.

No one ever thinks of The Black Adder as "fantasy", even though it is, because it's "comedy satire" - but take away the farce and the humor and you're left with an asshole protagonist scheming against an asshole court, and sometimes they see supernatural events that are scary and they don't really understand etc.


So in that very basic sense, i.e. medieval/classical setting with grey morality and mysticism isn't anything new to audience - but now it's being sold as "fantasy" and everyone's like "omg I thought fantasy was just elves against evil overlords I had no idea it could all this" even though that hadn't really been their opinion for decades :D

I think what Asoiaf/GOT stood out the most is due to the political story it have and plus... well, sex and violence. I agreed that fantasy stories in  medieval setting with grey morality isn't all that new. Most fantasy series would have at least some originalities outside of the whole "boy become hero and save the day and become royal" thing. And even some would have minimal of graphic content like sex and violence, but it only played subtly. Series like Wheel of Time and Memory, Sorrow, and Thorn are this.

However with Asoiaf/GOT, it think outside the box that contain the typical fantasy tropes. It contain politics which not a lot of fantasy series usually focus, especially with royalties and nobles. I would like to point out that the deconstructions and twists of certain tropes and archetypes are the highlights of the series. It put the realistic circumstances that parallel to actual human conditions and values. For example, Robert fought against the Targs. He was considered to be a good general, and thus he was crowned as king. From the archetype perspective, he can be seen as the hero type. However, GRMM deconstructed this with Robert being unsatisfied with his kingship despite his achievements and spend most of time drinking and whoring instead. And of course I can explain the brutal violence in the series that GRMM did not sugarcoat it, but like he explained himself, he wanted to present the horrific of war instead of telling an epic about men fighting for glory.

Regarding Greek Mythology and its grey morality, i think the blame mainly caters from mainstream movies and films. Most films and tv shows that based off Greek Mythology told it in a typical fantasy story that the myths wouldn't tell it that way. I mean look at The Legend of Hercules, it went sooo well right? But I think another problem is that we retell Greek mythology with our modern interpretations. We put Greek Gods and heroes to certain group that classified them to modern ideas, taking them out of context that the Ancient Greek people wouldn't thought of them as. Sure, we know the Greek mythological characters are grey, but it's a different "grey" from Ancient Greek standards. Like, when you think of Zeus, you think of him as a philanderer who constantly cheats on Hera. But to the Ancient Greeks, he wasn't seen as this. He was often seen as a majestic god who is in need to maintain law and make actions that was necessary, and he wasn't particularly thought of sharing humanistic attributes (and his affairs wasn't considered "adultery" either cuz men were expected to had affairs back then).

We can imagine the Greek myths and gods based off Percy Jackson and Xena Warriors for all we like. However, when you start reading the classics texts like the The Iliad and Odyssey, it's a whole different story.

 

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On 8/21/2016 at 0:41 AM, Cron said:

Yeah, it's pretty amazing, especially, I think to people like me who had already read the bboks long before the show began

...

I couldn't be happier for GRRM, he deserves every bit of the success, he's earned it.

So much this. Sometimes it's still surreal to me that you see these references everywhere and the average person on the street knows who Jaime Lannister is. I'm glad for GRRM, but sometimes it feels very, very strange to have this story reach so many, many people. Like it was a  private club that one day opened it's doors and herded everyone they could find through the doors. I'm sure that sounds book snobbish, but as much as it's exciting, it always makes me a little sad, too.

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17 hours ago, Gertrude said:

So much this. Sometimes it's still surreal to me that you see these references everywhere and the average person on the street knows who Jaime Lannister is. I'm glad for GRRM, but sometimes it feels very, very strange to have this story reach so many, many people. Like it was a  private club that one day opened it's doors and herded everyone they could find through the doors. I'm sure that sounds book snobbish, but as much as it's exciting, it always makes me a little sad, too.

Good stuff.

Yeah, I read the first four books in about 2006, about 5 years before the show's first season.

AFFC had just come out in paperback, and I was looking for something thick to sink my teeth into when, while browsing at the bookstore (Fantasy and Sci-Fi section), I saw the first 4 books in paperback.  I bought AGOT, and within about 75 to 100 pages was totally blown away and completely hooked.   I then tore through the entire series in about a month, and considered it quite possibly the best fiction I had ever read.  Certainly, GRRM has the greatest characters and character development in any fiction I have ever read, hands down, nothing else is even close, and I've read hundreds and hundreds of books.

So, when the show started and became a big hit, and then we started to see so many popular culture references, it was VERY strange.

I guess it would be like growing up while being friends with a kid down the street who later became famous worldwide, and you can say "I knew him back when..."

(Actually, though, as I strongly recall, even when I started reading the books they were already New York Times bestsellers, as you probably know, but obviously they had not nearly had the impact on popular culture that the show has had, for a wide variety of reasons.)

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On 19.4.2017 at 7:50 PM, The Arthur Smith said:

I think what Asoiaf/GOT stood out the most is due to the political story it have and plus... well, sex and violence. I agreed that fantasy stories in  medieval setting with grey morality isn't all that new. Most fantasy series would have at least some originalities outside of the whole "boy become hero and save the day and become royal" thing. And even some would have minimal of graphic content like sex and violence, but it only played subtly. Series like Wheel of Time and Memory, Sorrow, and Thorn are this.

However with Asoiaf/GOT, it think outside the box that contain the typical fantasy tropes. It contain politics which not a lot of fantasy series usually focus, especially with royalties and nobles. I would like to point out that the deconstructions and twists of certain tropes and archetypes are the highlights of the series. It put the realistic circumstances that parallel to actual human conditions and values. For example, Robert fought against the Targs. He was considered to be a good general, and thus he was crowned as king. From the archetype perspective, he can be seen as the hero type. However, GRMM deconstructed this with Robert being unsatisfied with his kingship despite his achievements and spend most of time drinking and whoring instead. And of course I can explain the brutal violence in the series that GRMM did not sugarcoat it, but like he explained himself, he wanted to present the horrific of war instead of telling an epic about men fighting for glory.

Regarding Greek Mythology and its grey morality, i think the blame mainly caters from mainstream movies and films. Most films and tv shows that based off Greek Mythology told it in a typical fantasy story that the myths wouldn't tell it that way. I mean look at The Legend of Hercules, it went sooo well right? But I think another problem is that we retell Greek mythology with our modern interpretations. We put Greek Gods and heroes to certain group that classified them to modern ideas, taking them out of context that the Ancient Greek people wouldn't thought of them as. Sure, we know the Greek mythological characters are grey, but it's a different "grey" from Ancient Greek standards. Like, when you think of Zeus, you think of him as a philanderer who constantly cheats on Hera. But to the Ancient Greeks, he wasn't seen as this. He was often seen as a majestic god who is in need to maintain law and make actions that was necessary, and he wasn't particularly thought of sharing humanistic attributes (and his affairs wasn't considered "adultery" either cuz men were expected to had affairs back then).

We can imagine the Greek myths and gods based off Percy Jackson and Xena Warriors for all we like. However, when you start reading the classics texts like the The Iliad and Odyssey, it's a whole different story.

 

Well, sleeping around wasn't the worst thing Zeus did - that'd be the Prometheus thing, or at least it's certainly up there.
On the other hand, he was a strong defender of guest right, and other forms of justice I think, and he along with all the gods was highly disgusted by "Pelops pie" and punished Tantalus accordingly.

His brother Hades wasn't evil and in fact probably a better person than Zeus.


Apollo (and Artemis) shot up a bunch of innocent youths because Niobe blasphemed against his mother - though either Niobe or one of the sons started pleading for mercy and he started feeling pity: but it was too late, the arrow had already left the bow etc.

Artemis had a guy killed just for accidentally wandering into her tent and seeing her naked (too big a privilege for a mortal) - but overall, Apollo and Artemis were rather positive figures unlike Ares, and represented youth, beauty, health and stuff like that.

 

Oedipus was a pretty cool guy, but he angrily killed Laius just for being an old curmudgeonly prick standing in his way, and didn't feel sorry until he learned it was his father.

Achilles was a bit of a jerk and went completely crayyyyyy after Hector killed his friend in battle - but he also valiantly defended Iphigenia from sacrifice (ready to die for her until she insisted on the sacrifice herself), showed respect to Priamus when he asked him to bury Hector properly etc.

("Troy" kinda captured the gist of it, even though it made Achilles a bit nicer overall, and the rest of the Greeks less sympathetic - thing is, Menelaos went after his wife, but most of the others had to join him because they had sworn an oath earlier.)

Odysseus is mostly seen as a hero who got his home back from a bunch of douchebags - though killing those douchebags' mistresses wasn't quite so nice, probably.


The whole Agamemnon story goes back and forth, either he was a complete asshat and deserved to get killed by his wife, or his wife was a conniving bitch who conspired with her lover - either way, her son was commanded by Apollo god to stab her in return, and then he was pursued by the Erinyes for matricide and had to seek the proection of Athena etc.
So that's a pretty nice cocktail of greyshade isn't it?



Point is, despite all the "sanitized modern adaptations" (of which Troy isn't one), I think people are generally familiar with the gist of the original myths - most people who came to think that GoT was "groundbreaking" in that particular regard, at least as far as famous works ago, are probably familiar with all those Greek figures and just forgot to make that connection.

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