Could Marwyn the Mage be a dragon?

[Tucu]

4 minutes ago, Yuzzybus said:

 

How does Aemon fit with bride of fire motif if the other two are Khal Drogo and Jon Snow?

  Reveal hidden contents

I think the corpse on the ship is Aeron Damphair, the ship is the Silence, and Euron Dany's next important husband.

 

We are probably not getting a list of husbands in that sentence, as we are not getting a list of fathers in the "daugther of dead" part

[The Dew]

@OuttaOldtown great analysis for Marwyn, pleasant and interesting read. 

[Yuzzybus]

24 minutes ago, Tucu said:

We are probably not getting a list of husbands in that sentence, as we are not getting a list of fathers in the "daugther of dead" part

Would you mind explaining that?

[Yuzzybus]

I could be wrong but I linked the bride of fire with the three mounts you must ride.  The daughter of death section seemed to refer to Viserys, Rhaego, and Rhaegar.

[Tucu]

10 minutes ago, Yuzzybus said:

Would you mind explaining that?

In the first 3 visions we see Viserys, potential Rhaego and Rhaegar:

Viserys screamed as the molten gold ran down his cheeks and filled his mouth. A tall lord with copper skin and silver-gold hair stood beneath the banner of a fiery stallion, a burning city behind him. Rubies flew like drops of blood from the chest of a dying prince, and he sank to his knees in the water and with his last breath murmured a woman's name. . . . mother of dragons, daughter of death

This is a list of dead family members, not fathers.

Then we get:

Her silver was trotting through the grass, to a darkling stream beneath a sea of stars. A corpse stood at the prow of a ship, eyes bright in his dead face, grey lips smiling sadly. A blue flower grew from a chink in a wall of ice, and filled the air with sweetness. . . . mother of dragons, bride of fire

This doesn't have to be a list of husbands. It could be a list of "fires" that are alive: Dany, Aemon and Jon. Or it could be any number of things.

[YOVMO]

On August 20, 2016 at 6:38 PM, Dorian Martell said:

Yes, everyone in westeros is a secret targ 

I an going with R+R=R

 

[YOVMO]

On August 20, 2016 at 4:49 PM, Seams said:

It does seem as if Maester Aemon would have said something, if another Targ had followed in his footsteps by becoming a maester.

While I am not sure that it is the case that another targ followed in the Aemonian (TM) footsteps, I think is is possible that if one did that Aemon would specifically NOT have said something. I mean, the citadel is pretty hostile to Aemon...he should have been an arch-maester...and to targs in general. It is more likely, I believe, that if this was the case that it would be better for all involved for Aemon not to mention it

[Dorian Martell]

2 hours ago, Yuzzybus said:

 

How does Aemon fit with bride of fire motif if the other two are Khal Drogo and Jon Snow?

  Hide contents

I think the corpse on the ship is Aeron Damphair, the ship is the Silence, and Euron Dany's next important husband.

 

 but how does aeron fit in the bride of fire motif?  Her silver was given to her by a man who became her family. Aemon was part of her family, so is Jon Snow 

[BricksAndSparrows]

I suspect we're going to get a Maester reveal before the end of the series. And I'm not talking about Alleras. I think Lady Dustin set it up for us. 

I have no valid reason for thinking this, but I always imagined Marwyn to be Iron Born.

[Lord Wraith]

13 hours ago, Little Scribe of Naath said:

Ooh good catch.

It's definitely possible that there is some connection between Marwyn and the Cinnamon Wind. Maybe he went on the Cinnamon Wind when he traveled to Asshai - wasn't it supposed to go around the trader's circle on the Jade Sea? Asshai would be on that circle, I guess, because it trades gold,gemstones and other stuff IIRC.

There was a great theory of @Lord Wraith on the Oberyn/Marwyn connection as well: 

 

Thanks for the theory drop. Its not conclusive by any means but I think there are more than enough connections between Marwyn and Oberyn that they met. I believe that Oberyn might have travelled Essos with Marwyn. I think Oberyn's paramour in Volantis was able to get them behind the Black Walls and into some old libraries where he found the three pages from Sign's and Portents about Daenys the Dreamer.

12 hours ago, OuttaOldtown said:

Thank you, it's an area I've been focusing on for a long time..

And you must remember that learning of a Maester in Asshai seemed completely insane at the time. From the same order that keep insisting that magic no longer exists? Who better for a man like Oberyn to befriend at the Citadel, and for his daughter to learn from years later..

ill check it out..

The world book also confirms that Marwyn has been to Asshai. I have always found it interesting that the Maesters dismiss magic but still have an Archmaester dedicated to it.

8 hours ago, BricksAndSparrows said:

I suspect we're going to get a Maester reveal before the end of the series. And I'm not talking about Alleras. I think Lady Dustin set it up for us. 

I have no valid reason for thinking this, but I always imagined Marwyn to be Iron Born.

Well Rodrick the Reader is a fan of his works, he is reading Marwyn's book of Lost Books in one of Asha's chapters. Also I know that there have been Ironborn maesters in the past. The World Book mentions a few.

I am fairly certain that Marwyn and Qyburn are working with the Dornish but am not sure of Marwyn's identity. I do like my theory however.

[OuttaOldtown]

12 hours ago, The Dew said:

@OuttaOldtown great analysis for Marwyn, pleasant and interesting read. 

Thanks Dew..

2 hours ago, Lord Wraith said:

Thanks for the theory drop. Its not conclusive by any means but I think there are more than enough connections between Marwyn and Oberyn that they met. I believe that Oberyn might have travelled Essos with Marwyn. I think Oberyn's paramour in Volantis was able to get them behind the Black Walls and into some old libraries where he found the three pages from Sign's and Portents about Daenys the Dreamer.

The world book also confirms that Marwyn has been to Asshai. I have always found it interesting that the Maesters dismiss magic but still have an Archmaester dedicated to it.

Once I started reading I realized I read it alread. i agree with your assertions, hoping the Marwyn, the Sand Snakes or Qyburn enlighten us with more info in Winds..

[Melifeather]

16 hours ago, ravenous reader said:

18 hours ago, The Fattest Leech said:

Sam is in Oldtown to train a s a maester and the third link is generally the copper link, which is astronomy. The copper bands on the horn are broken and it's a good thing Sam is in a place that trains its people to forge metals and also has a library that holds secrets from hundreds of years past. Sam does love to read and learn about past, as Jon also commanded him to do.

One funny line that Leo says in the AFFC prologue is, "I understand you won your copper link. I'll drink to that."" which is kinda ironic because Jon told Sam to make a drinking horn out of the broken horn he gave him. Wouldn't it be funny if Sam fixed the horn, filled it with ale, tried to drink from it (incorrectly) and accidentally blew the damn thing and woke an ice dragon?

All good points!  I agree, Sam is a stutterer and shaker, who one gets the feeling is going to make a momentous, though inadvertent and likely tragicomic contribution to the way 'things go down' by 'shaking things up'!  Isn't the copper link 'history' and the bronze 'astronomy'?  History is broken.  @Feather Crystal might say that time itself is broken and the broken bands represent the wards coming 'unwarded'!

 

Thank you for pointing this out! I love it! 

The symbolism of the broken bands as representing history and the fact that Sam was taking this "broken history" to the Citadel suggests that maybe we'll learn some historical truths through Sam's study. Wards are typically made of iron, however I do like the association between the broken bands and the unraveling of magic.

The drinking horn is kinda ironically funny to me since the Drowned God lies beyond the Wall and all the north is upside down and under water. Maybe it's can't work, because it's full of water? Sam has to remove the water in order to blow it.

[bent branch]

I do think there is some hint that Marwyn has some Targaryen heritage. But I don't think that because of symbolism. Although this has been partially quoted before, I'll do so again rather than go back through the thread to find it. From 46 of AFFC, we have this from Marwyn:
 

Quote

 

"Kill him?" Sam said, shocked. "Why?"

"If I tell you, they may need to kill you too." Marwyn smiled a ghastly smile, the juice of the sourleaf running red between his teeth. "Who do you think killed all the dragons the last time around? Gallant dragonslayers armed with swords?" He spat. "The world the Citadel is building has no place in it for sorcery or prophecy or glass candles, much less for dragons. Ask yourself why Aemon Targaryen was allowed to waste his life upon the Wall, when by rights he should have been raised to archmaester. His blood was why. He could not be trusted. No more than I can." 

 

The emphasis on blood is the author's. I believe the author is telling the reader in a more straight forward way, what the author has suggested many times. There is something magical about the Targaryens. This magic is inherent in them and cannot be separated from them. And indeed, we find out in the end that even the gentle and wise Aemon dreamt of dragons, just like every Targaryen. In a world where the Citadel is trying to remove magic, the Targaryens must be removed. GRRM's editor has said he gives about three hints with increasing obviousness be for he reveals his twist. I believe this is the third most obvious hint about the special nature of Targ (dragonlord) blood.

So, Marwyn says, that Aemon couldn't be trusted, because his blood was magic and couldn't be separated from Aemon. Then in the next sentence, Marwyn suggests that he too has this "magic" blood, i.e. at least one Targ ancestor. This actually wouldn't be surprising. We know there were plenty of Targ bastards running around and it would be completely reasonable to find that one of these retained some of the magical properties of the Targs. Anyone can go to the Citadel, so Marwyn doesn't have to be connected to any particular family. But if he is, my guess would be Hightower.

[Melifeather]

Marwyn can be magical if he's a Royce from the Vale. The Royces claim their bronze and iron armor engraved with ruins is magical and the red spit may be indicative that it's not his blood that makes him magical, but rather due to a device that his family uses.

[Balerion's Whiskers]

 

In Dany's very first POV she tells us this....

Quote

For centuries the Targaryens had married brother to sister, since Aegon the Conqueror had taken his sisters to bride. The line must be kept pure, Viserys had told her a thousand times; theirs was the kingsblood, the golden blood of old Valyria, the blood of the dragon. Dragons did not mate with the beasts of the field, and Targaryens did not mingle their blood with that of lesser men.

That tells me that Targ blood is different than common human blood...although, we have no reference to anyone  in aSoIaF bleeding any color but red.

[Little Scribe of Naath]

9 hours ago, Lord Wraith said:

Thanks for the theory drop. Its not conclusive by any means but I think there are more than enough connections between Marwyn and Oberyn that they met. I believe that Oberyn might have travelled Essos with Marwyn. I think Oberyn's paramour in Volantis was able to get them behind the Black Walls and into some old libraries where he found the three pages from Sign's and Portents about Daenys the Dreamer.

The world book also confirms that Marwyn has been to Asshai. I have always found it interesting that the Maesters dismiss magic but still have an Archmaester dedicated to it.

Well Rodrick the Reader is a fan of his works, he is reading Marwyn's book of Lost Books in one of Asha's chapters. Also I know that there have been Ironborn maesters in the past. The World Book mentions a few.

I am fairly certain that Marwyn and Qyburn are working with the Dornish but am not sure of Marwyn's identity. I do like my theory however.

I really liked your theory because it fits GRRM's style somehow - hiding clues in the most innocuous ways. If we take OuttaOldtown's hypothesis that Sarella Sand might be the daughter of Kojja Mo or another female Summer Islands trader from the Cinnamon Wind (very much possible), then even Tyene Sand's mother being a Septa could be significant. 

IIRC, there is a large convent of septas in Oldtown, so maybe Oberyn met her there while forging his links. Not much on it's own, but taken together, everything seems to point to a longtime association between Oberyn and Marwyn.

[Lost Umber]

I don't think Marwyn is a Targ... I suspect he's a Martell, or somehow related to them.

The obvious clue is that he's working closely with Sarella... Oberyn's daughter. Presumably keeping her identity secret and she is clearly a confidante of his.

He's described as looking like a dockworker or a mastiff, Quentyn is described as a toad. Is that similar? Maybe... basically squat and swarthy.

Then there's the similarity in the names: Marwyn, Lewyn, Quentyn, Oberyn, and phonetic similarity to Doran, Trystane, Morgan, Maron

Marwyn explains to Sam that Aemon was being wasted on the Wall "His blood was why. He could not be trusted. No more than I can." Martell blood would fit that explanation. As would his interest in TPTWP and his ties to Aemon.

 

[OuttaOldtown]

20 minutes ago, Lost Umber said:

I don't think Marwyn is a Targ... I suspect he's a Martell, or somehow related to them.

The obvious clue is that he's working closely with Sarella... Oberyn's daughter. Presumably keeping her identity secret and she is clearly a confidante of his.

He's described as looking like a dockworker or a mastiff, Quentyn is described as a toad. Is that similar? Maybe... basically squat and swarthy.

Then there's the similarity in the names: Marwyn, Lewyn, Quentyn, Oberyn, and phonetic similarity to Doran, Trystane, Morgan, Maron

Marwyn explains to Sam that Aemon was being wasted on the Wall "His blood was why. He could not be trusted. No more than I can." Martell blood would fit that explanation. As would his interest in TPTWP and his ties to Aemon.

 

I've found the 'yn' suffix for names exists from Dorne to Beyond-the-wall. Tormund has a child named Dryn and there's also Alfyn Crowkiller. I don't think he's a Martell personally but it's all a guessing game. My bet is on one of the Vale houses since there's only one other confirmed Marwyn in the story..

[aryagonnakill#2]

20 hours ago, Yuzzybus said:

I could be wrong but I linked the bride of fire with the three mounts you must ride.  The daughter of death section seemed to refer to Viserys, Rhaego, and Rhaegar.

I take daughter of death to be about her and her parents.  Her mother died in childbirth, her father was a maniac who was responsible for a lot of death, she will be responsible for a lot of death, etc etc,

[Seams]

On 8/21/2016 at 11:39 AM, OuttaOldtown said:

“What will you do?” asked Alleras, the Sphinx.

“Get myself to Slaver’s Bay, in Aemon’s place. The swan ship that delivered Slayer should serve my needs well enough.

...

Alleras smiled. "I have a confession. Ours was no chance encounter, Sam. The Mage sent me to snatch you up before you spoke to Theobald. He knew that you were coming."

 

Keep in mind Aemon corpse was preserved and he seemed to have planned to leave aboard the Cinnamon Wind before the conversation takes place, I think there's a possibility Marwyn will come to Dany appearing as her great, great uncle Aemon. Whatever Arya drank to become a FM was brewed for him before he left.

 

...

Sam is unaware this guy is taking off with all of Aemon's books, both of their possessions and Aemon's dead corpse, Gilly & the baby and possibly the horn of winter on the very same ship that brought him to Oldtown from Bravvos on his way to Dany. 

Also the CW was in Qarth:

Your grace," the knight said, "I bring you Quhuru Mo, captain of the Cinnamon Wind out of Tall Trees Town"

 

And this is what he tells her when she inquires if they are headed west:

 

"Not for a year or more, I fear. From here the Cinnamon Wind sails east, to make the trader's circle round the Jade Sea"

 

I think they're a connection between Marwyn and this ship, and a mutual interest in Dany is clear. 

This is great stuff. The ship's name, Cinnamon Wind, suggests a connection to spice traders, which might mean Illyrio or a House Spicer connection, which would be really interesting. If it's House Spicer, that would suggest that Maggy the Frog might also be connected to Marwyn and his worldwide network of magic practitioners.

Since we're about to get a book with "Wind" in the title, all winds are likely to be significant. We have had Robb's wolf, Grey Wind, Asha Greyjoy's longship, Black Wind, Dany's horse ("Tell Khal Drogo that he has given me the wind.") Bran speaks through the wind when he reaches out from the weirwood trees. I bet you're right that this Cinnamon Wind ship is a central symbol.

The cracking and breaking of the Selaesori Qhoran seemed like part of the egg hatching motif to me - showing that Tyrion had hatched and was ready to start a "new life" after his voyages had ended. But he had just had a rebirth - upon his arrival in Essos, he emerged from a wine barrel in which he hidden. Appropriate that a wine drinker like Tyrion should hatch from a wine barrel "egg." When I realized that Aemon's body had been hidden in a barrel of rum ("blackbelly" rum, which apparently is not a thing - why would GRRM invent this word?) I wondered what kind of rebirth was in store for him. I thought maybe he was a secret skinchanger and had entered Dalla's baby, which had finally become quiet and stopped crying. But I like your idea even more - a rebirth for Aemon in the form of Marwyn using his body or, at least, his face. Maybe GRRM used "blackbelly" instead of "blackberry" to hint that Aemon would be reborn from the belly of something black - the Night's Watch? The hold of a ship?

For what it's worth, I just saw a description of Rorge that someone posted on another thread, and was surprised to notice that it has some things in common with the excerpts you compiled to describe Marwyn: “squat and thick, with huge hands. Black hair covered his arms and legs and chest, even his back." (Arya II, ACoK) If Jaqen H'Ghar is the same faceless man who became the Alchemist, I wonder if he met Rorge through his brother (Cousin? Uncle? Father?), Marwyn?