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Could Marwyn the Mage be a dragon?


Yuzzybus

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Just reread Feast and something in the last chapter caught my attention that I had not noticed before.  Not really evidence, but I thought it may be a hint that Marwyn could be another dragon /have a Targaryen ancestor.

Quote

"...sourleaf had stained his teeth a mottled red."

"The candle was unpleasantly bright... The light did something strange to colors too.  Whites were bright as fresh-fallen snow, yellow shone like gold, reds turned to flame, but the shadows were so black they looked like holes in the world."

"The archmaester peeled a sourleaf off a bale, shoved it in his mouth, and began to chew it."

""Marwyn turned his head and spat a gob of red phlegm onto the floor."

In the light of the glass candle, Marwyn's teeth and spit would appear to be on fire.  Seems dragonish.

Also,

Quote

"A fire was burning in the hearth, beneath a copper kettle.  Whatever was inside of it smelled burned."

Maybe these details just show Marwyn to be a careless housekeeper with nasty habits.  Or maybe GRRM is very subtlety linking Marwyn with fire breathing dragons that like their meat charred.  I do assume that Marwyn probably has some sort of important connections that have allowed him to become an archmaester and survive outside of the mainstream.

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I like your red = flame evidence.

Can you think of a known Targ he might be? We know most of the family members going back several generations, so we would probably be able to figure out his parents, if he were connected to the family.

It does seem as if Maester Aemon would have said something, if another Targ had followed in his footsteps by becoming a maester.

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4 hours ago, Yuzzybus said:

Just reread Feast and something in the last chapter caught my attention that I had not noticed before.  Not really evidence, but I thought it may be a hint that Marwyn could be another dragon /have a Targaryen ancestor.

In the light of the glass candle, Marwyn's teeth and spit would appear to be on fire.  Seems dragonish.

Also,

Maybe these details just show Marwyn to be a careless housekeeper with nasty habits.  Or maybe GRRM is very subtlety linking Marwyn with fire breathing dragons that like their meat charred.  I do assume that Marwyn probably has some sort of important connections that have allowed him to become an archmaester and survive outside of the mainstream.

Yes, everyone in westeros is a secret targ 

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I can see why that jumped out at you, but by this reasoning, everyone in the series that chews sourleaf and is ever near a cook fire could be argued to be a secret Targaryen. So I doubt he's any sort of dragon. 

Whether he is a secret Targaryen or not, I'm very much looking forward to learning more about him! Let's hope we do!

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3 hours ago, Dorian Martell said:

Yes, everyone in westeros is a secret targ 

Mr. Longwaters had the right of it. Masha heddle is the true PTWP. 

7 hours ago, Light a wight tonight said:

Wings? Nope. Scales? Nope. Dragons have both.

Planetos dragons are said to be roughly as intelligent as a dog. Obviously Marwyn's smarter than that.

Based on this evidence I'd say he's something other than a dragon.

Then how do you explain the Valyrian steel links of the Citadel? Spellforged in dragonfire ergo Marwyn is a level 20 dragon sorceror.

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Pure speculation, but I think Marwyn may have both Hightower and Targaryen ancestors.  So much has yet to be revealed about Marwyn, the Hightowers, and the Citadel.  There is not much to go on but there are ways it could be possible. 

Garmund Hightower had six daughters with Rhaena Targaryen. 

Alicient Hightower and Viserys I had Aemond Targaryen who left behind the pregnant Alys Rivers.

Aegon IV provides plenty of room for speculation though no Hightower mistress is mentioned, Jon Hightower does provided him Serenei of Lys.  It is unclear if the Hightowers have a prior family connection with Serenei's family.  Lynesse Hightower's description makes me think that Lys has made some contribution to the Hightower gene pool.  But I do not think that Shiera Seastar has any direct connection to Marwyn.  I prefer Yolkboy's BR+SS= M theory on that one.

He could also be a descendent of Hard Hugh Hammer or some other dragon seed.

He could be the bastard of a Hightower and an Archmaester like Maester Walys.

Too many possibilities to narrow it down.

Quote

"...isn't it clever how the maesters go only by one name, even those who had two when they first arrived at the Citadel?  That way we cannot know who they truly are or where they come from...but if you are dogged enough you can still find out."

 

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17 minutes ago, Yuzzybus said:

Pure speculation, but I think Marwyn may have both Hightower and Targaryen ancestors.  So much has yet to be revealed about Marwyn, the Hightowers, and the Citadel.  There is not much to go on but there are ways it could be possible. 

Garmund Hightower had six daughters with Rhaena Targaryen. 

Alicient Hightower and Viserys I had Aemond Targaryen who left behind the pregnant Alys Rivers.

Aegon IV provides plenty of room for speculation though no Hightower mistress is mentioned, Jon Hightower does provided him Serenei of Lys.  It is unclear if the Hightowers have a prior family connection with Serenei's family.  Lynesse Hightower's description makes me think that Lys has made some contribution to the Hightower gene pool.  But I do not think that Shiera Seastar has any direct connection to Marwyn.  I prefer Yolkboy's BR+SS= M theory on that one.

He could also be a descendent of Hard Hugh Hammer or some other dragon seed.

He could be the bastard of a Hightower and an Archmaester like Maester Walys.

Too many possibilities to narrow it down.

 

He could be ned's other bastard. Did you think of that one? 

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3 hours ago, MinotaurWarrior said:

Then how do you explain the Valyrian steel links of the Citadel? Spellforged in dragonfire ergo Marwyn is a level 20 dragon sorceror.

What do the Valyrian steel links have to do with anything at all? The maesters forge their own links, their presence obviously predates Marwyn, and Tobho Mott could forge Valyrian Steel without dragonfire.

As to dragon sorcerers, you should have turned left at Albuquerque because you're in the wrong story. 

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5 hours ago, Light a wight tonight said:

He could be Rhaegar. Did you think of that one?

 

5 hours ago, Dorian Martell said:

Of course. in the end, everyone is Euron/Dario. It is known 

If you don't have something constructive to add to the OP, why not refrain from commenting? The OP offered evidence and made a reasonable query. You guys might be tired of discussion that seems to revisit old theories, but that's no reason to make someone else feel bad. I know about feeling bad, because DM did the same smug thing on one of my threads. The chat room would be a good place to have a dialogue where you can applaud your own superiority to the rest of the forum without trying to publicly humiliate other people.

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49 minutes ago, Seams said:

 

If you don't have something constructive to add to the OP, why not refrain from commenting? The OP offered evidence and made a reasonable query. You guys might be tired of discussion that seems to revisit old theories, but that's no reason to make someone else feel bad. I know about feeling bad, because DM did the same smug thing on one of my threads. The chat room would be a good place to have a dialogue where you can applaud your own superiority to the rest of the forum without trying to publicly humiliate other people.

Not really. As stated earlier, sourleaf chewing =/= targ in any way. Since there is as much evidence of Marwyn being a secret targ as there is of him being Ned's bastard, there is no smug anywhere. If you cannot bear to be in an online conversation where faceless, alias having people disagree with you then mayhaps the internet isn't the right place to have a conversation?

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It is certainly possible.  As far as the hidden Targs are concerned, the blame lies with Martin, he is the one after all that laid the hints about multiple characters possibly having Targaryen blood, I see no reason to discredit Marwyn much more than say, Jaime or Tyrion.

As far as Marwyn, there does seem to be more to him then just some commoner who rose through the ranks of the Citadel.  He is linked to Alleras, Mirri Maz Dur (sp?), and Qyburn; all of which are more than what they appear to be.  Rodrik the Reader was reading his book The Book of Lost Books.  He is interested in prophecy, which is somewhat of a Targaryen family trait.  We have this from Marwyn:

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"Ask yourself why Aemon Targaryen was allowed to waste away at the wall, when by all rights he should've been Archmaester.  Blood, that's why.  He could not be trusted.  No more than can." - Marwyn the Mage

And this from Lazy Leo:

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"The sea is wet, the sun is warm, and the menagerie hates the mastiff."

Now, if one were so inclined, you could equate the menagerie to the sigils of the Houses of Westeros (wolf and bear and lion and stag) and the mastiff to the creature (dragons) that mastered them.

Illyrio calls Varys a wizard, Marwyn is called a Mage, seems like those two fellas would want an ally within the Citadel, seeing as how they control so much information and all.  For what it's worth, the term mastiff can be used synonymously with the word mossoler, which is an ancient breed of large, sturdy-built dogs that come from a common ancestor.  Red or black, a dragon is a dragon.

Now, this is all pretty thin, but so is some of the evidence for othe "secret Targs", theories that have seemed to garner a rather large following on this forum.

@Seams, very well said.

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Do not think he's a Targ, I've done some research on his identity myself, here's the physical description of Maester Marwyn as told by Sam:
 
"Marwyn wore a chain of many metals around his bull’s neck. Save for that, he looked more like a dockside thug than a maester. His head was too big for his body, and the way it thrust forward from his shoulders, together with that slab of jaw, made him look as if he were about to tear off someone’s head. Though short and squat, he was heavy in the chest and shoulders, with a round, rock-hard ale belly straining at the laces of the leather jerkin he wore in place of robes. Bristly white hair sprouted from his ears and nostrils. His brow beetled, his nose had been broken more than once, and sourleaf had stained his teeth a mottled red. He had the biggest hands that Sam had ever seen."
 
And this less detailed one provided from Pate the acolyte. 
 
"..he could not deny that Marwyn looked more a mastiff than a maester.....Some even whispered that once he had killed a man with his fists."
 
Beyond his appearance I looked into his name, and realized an abundance of names ending in 'yn' can be found from Dorne to Beyond the Wall. 
 
But there's one other Marwyn in the story, Ser Marwyn Belmore, he is described as "a lanky ginger-headed knight", which bares no resemblance but could be suggesting to look for a family in the Vale to find clues. 
 
Ser Marwyn is removed as Captain of the Guards of the Eyrie and is replaced by Ser Lothor Brune by Littlefinger. He then becomes Captain at the Gates of the Moon serving cadet branch of House Royce. Here's the physical description of the High Steward of the Vale as told by Sansa:
 
"Lord Nestor Royce was a bullnecked, barrel-chested, balding man with a grey-shot beard and a stern look"
 
Can't help but notice how close that is to Maester Marwyn's "bull’s neck" & a heavy chest as described by Sam, but he's only one Royce, how about Yohn Royce of the senior branch of the House:
 
"The Lord of Runestone stood as tall as the Hound. Though his hair was grey and his face lined, Lord Yohn still looked as though he could break most younger men like twigs in those huge gnarled hands.....Bronze Yohn had slate-grey eyes, half-hidden beneath the bushiest eyebrows she had ever seen."
 
Thought the height isn't a match the huge hands & the bushy eyebrows are prominent features of both he & Marwyn, to have 'beetled brows' is a fancy way of writing to have shaggy overhanging eyebrows. 
 
However the hands are where I think there is a potential match as Sam seems to almost views them as so large that they're almost threatening and Pate confirms there's whispers of Marwyn killing a man with his fists. Sansa thinking that Yohn's hands look as if they could break men bares resemblance. 
 
Interestingly, and possibly connected, the prologue of AGoT ends with Waymar Royce, son of Yohn Royce, being killed & turned into a wight. He then goes on to strangle Will with his hands:
 
"Long, elegant hands brushed his cheek, then tightened around his throat." 
 
So my best guess is he's a Royce, I've also considered the possibility he could be from beyond the wall and have some giants blood, but there's no proof.. 
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