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Dany's War Machine


Curled Finger

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21 hours ago, Tucu said:

Well, the wildlings in Hardhome became cannibals in a few weeks; so did Meera, Jojen and Bran (probably) and Stannis' men.

There are no food supplies in the Westerlands, the Riverlands, the North or KL. I doubt that the Reach, the Vale or Dorne can sustain them for long. In a year people will be queuing to be converted into WW.

In fairness the kids didn't actually know what they were eating and it was only 1 group of men who ate their own dead with Stannis.   However, that doesn't negate your point in the least.   Starvation is coming with winter.  Surely a dragon or 2 might be useful in some creative gardening venture?    Kidding.   I'm not sure the Others will get so far south.   We know the Reach is the major supplier of food in the realm and we know the North can't grow anything or produce much to eat in the cold they're having.   We know the Crownlands were experiencing food shortages in the summer and I'm sort of under the impression they don't actually produce any raw materials themselves.  We know there are great stores of food in the Vale because frickin Little Finger is banking on shortages so he can gouge prices and sustain his own little corner of the world.   The Riverlands have been decimated by war.   We don't know whether the VAST Reach really has a problem with supplies or the Westerland's situation.   Dorne must do something to sustain their people in all the heat--will winter get to Dorne in full force?  What are the Iron Born eating?   There is a lot to consider in this.   Surely all the kingdoms had a plan for raising crops and feeding livestock during their normal 4 year winters.   I hope they did at any rate.   

I was wondering what Dany could bring along for her people to eat like on the voyage.   Wouldn't it be a hoot if all that ghost grass turned out to be a super food!

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31 minutes ago, Curled Finger said:

In fairness the kids didn't actually know what they were eating and it was only 1 group of men who ate their own dead with Stannis.   However, that doesn't negate your point in the least.   Starvation is coming with winter.  Surely a dragon or 2 might be useful in some creative gardening venture?    Kidding.   I'm not sure the Others will get so far south.   We know the Reach is the major supplier of food in the realm and we know the North can't grow anything or produce much to eat in the cold they're having.   We know the Crownlands were experiencing food shortages in the summer and I'm sort of under the impression they don't actually produce any raw materials themselves.  We know there are great stores of food in the Vale because frickin Little Finger is banking on shortages so he can gouge prices and sustain his own little corner of the world.   The Riverlands have been decimated by war.   We don't know whether the VAST Reach really has a problem with supplies or the Westerland's situation.   Dorne must do something to sustain their people in all the heat--will winter get to Dorne in full force?  What are the Iron Born eating?   There is a lot to consider in this.   Surely all the kingdoms had a plan for raising crops and feeding livestock during their normal 4 year winters.   I hope they did at any rate.   

I was wondering what Dany could bring along for her people to eat like on the voyage.   Wouldn't it be a hoot if all that ghost grass turned out to be a super food!

The Iron Born will probably be OK; they sacked the North and are sacking the Reach now. The Reach had to feed KL and the Crownlands; I assume this ate a few years of food supplies. The Riverlands were burned by Tywin and Robb and the only food source there are Frey Pies and probably fishing. The Westerlands were burned by Robb. The North is still facing war and famine probably started already. Dorne is fine but it can only sustain its small population. The Vale is intact but I doubt they will be selling their food (well maybe at a dragon for an apple). The Stormlands are at war and having to feed the Golden Company.

Every lord probably had plans for winter, but the plans were destroyed by war. One of Jon's chapters describes the situation there quite well; only the Iron Bank loans and imports can save the NW and the Wildlings from starving in a few months.

And this is not any winter; GRRM says that snow is rare in KL, but this time it was already covered by the time the white raven arrived.

I really like how Big Bucket Wull described the incoming winter:

Winter is almost upon us, boy. And winter is death. I would sooner my men die fighting for the Ned's little girl than alone and hungry in the snow, weeping tears that freeze upon their cheeks. No one sings songs of men who die like that. As for me, I am old. This will be my last winter. Let me bathe in Bolton blood before I die. I want to feel it spatter across my face when my axe bites deep into a Bolton skull. I want to lick it off my lips and die with the taste of it on my tongue

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14 minutes ago, Tucu said:

The Iron Born will probably be OK; they sacked the North and are sacking the Reach now. The Reach had to feed KL and the Crownlands; I assume this ate a few years of food supplies. The Riverlands were burned by Tywin and Robb and the only food source there are Frey Pies and probably fishing. The Westerlands were burned by Robb. The North is still facing war and famine probably started already. Dorne is fine but it can only sustain its small population. The Vale is intact but I doubt they will be selling their food (well maybe at a dragon for an apple). The Stormlands are at war and having to feed the Golden Company.

Every lord probably had plans for winter, but the plans were destroyed by war. One of Jon's chapters describes the situation there quite well; only the Iron Bank loans and imports can save the NW and the Wildlings from starving in a few months.

And this is not any winter; GRRM says that snow is rare in KL, but this time it was already covered by the time the white raven arrived.

Ahh, very illuminating.   If snow is rare in the Crownlands maybe it won't snow in the Reach or Stormlands?   I forgot about Robb's fire, still I doubt it burned the entire kingdom.   I suppose if she's going to conquer Westeros she will have to take her band of merry men everywhere--or will she?  I've never invaded a country before so I'm not sure how it works, but I still think she should divide her forces.   

I'm glad you brought Jon's deal with the IB up.   He wanted to build a greenhouse to grow vegetables.  I wonder if others in the cold territories had this idea as well?  Since it's obvious food will be of the essence, I wonder how she will get around burning fields with those dragons.  

At any rate, you've really done a nice job illustrating the straits all Westeros is in or will be shortly.   Thanks very much.  

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18 hours ago, PrinceHenryris said:

As I read through this thread (which I found entertaining - props OP) I saw many posters say that letting a Dothraki horde loose in Westeroos would cause Dany problems.  How would that be different than Tywin letting the Mountain and the Brave Companions loose in the Riverlands?  

Also, posters have said that no Lord would join with Dany.  Well, unless you've been reading  different books than I have, there are greedy lords and noble houses that are almost always itching for a fight.  Maybe the Florents would side with Dany in an attempt to take Highgarden?  The Blackwoods and the Brackens just need an excuse.

And, of course, there's always the Dragon factor.

It's a lot of fun to get all this feed back and you draw our attention to the dark underbelly of Westeros--the majority of it's rulers and houses.   They are a bunch of jerks, greedy, mean nasty people.   This is the reason I look forward to the return of literal and figurative dragons.   The Lannisters and to an extent Baratheons are/were not truly noble.   They surrounded themselves with lickspittals, sycophants and henchmen.  Not all all unlike what Aerys 2 did.   I hope Dany's discerning enough to separate the less wicked from the completely wicked when she meets these clowns.   I have this secret hope that The BWB can actually raise a smallfolk rebellion and throw all the bums out of the Riverlands.   I couldn't stand Cat, but her brother did seem to know what to do for his people, smallfolk included.   Hmmm, now I'm wondering what Dany would do when faced with making democratic choices.   I honestly can't wait to see how GRRM has this go down.   

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Purely A Show/Book Analysis, yet Strategic Plan for "Dany's War Machine"

Daenerys leaves "Meereen" and presumably, she must sail south from the Bay of Dragons [formerly Slavers Bay] to the Gulf of Grief. Then westward around Valyria, turning North on The Summer Sea with Westeros in her sights.

Having recently formed alliances in Dorne and the Reach, it would be sound military strategy to have The Reach (Highgarden) capture Casterly Rock and with it the Westerlands [thus drawing the Lannister Army away from Kings Landing]. Once engaged the Crownlands would be quite defenseless.

The Frey's are in disarray so it makes sense for The Riverlands to be in play; Jaime Lannister wouldn't be foolish enough to believe letting Lord Edemure Tully return home would be a good idea so it makes sense that someone like Peter Baelish will want to maneuver there in order to claim it.

In my opinion Maidenpool, in the Crownlands stands as a good place to land an Army of Dothraki being flatter with plenty of freshwater due west, at Harrenhal, then south by southwest to Kings Landing and putting the horde between the Lannister Army and Kings Landing.

Kings Landing would fall quite easily, Have the Tyrrell's of Highgarden send massive amounts of food & position it all near the siege lines set up around Kings Landing, then; have Varys sneak in incognito, kill Quyburn or make an ally of him. Spread the word around Flea Bottom that as soon as they deliver Queen Cersie's head on a platter they can have all the food they can eat & in return for more they must support Daenerys to seat the Iron Throne. Keeping with reason, Tyrion would perhaps plead for his brother to be spared if he pledged loyalty to Daenerys; I don’t believe he’d accept it without Cersie joining him (which would be highly unlikely). The Tyrells and The Dornish Sand Snakes both want to see her demise as well. Therefore, Jaime would plead with her (Cersie) to join him going back to Casterly Rock and she'd refuse and likely want to burn the city to the ground. Jaime quite possibly would need to make a valonquar gesture. 

This is where it breaking the wheel gets tricky, a good tactician gains the most ground while sacrificing the least amount of soldiers, goods, and time, and lands; therefore, having the Army and Allies as Queen Daenerys does she’d want to quickly make another alliance with Lord Robert “Sweet Robyn” Eeryn and his Step-Father, Littlefinger, thus securing the Crownlands, The Eerie, The Reach, Dorne, and upon defeating the Lannister Army, The Westerlands. 

Now there are only two real regions to contend with: The North and the Iron Islands, the Iron Islands seem to be the more pressing of the two. The easiest way to destroy Euron and his fleet would be dragonfire and death from above off the shores of the Westerlands; afterward, the aligned Iron Islands would be soundly tamed.

The North will be concentrating on the threat from the Others and the fact that Winter has Come. I don’t see they'd pose a viable threat for Daenerys, nor do I believe it would be absolutely necessary for King Jon to wed Queen Daenerys, however, it’d be quite possible they’d want to meet and converse about death marching on the Wall. Tyrion knows Jon, and Tyrion knows that Lord Commander Mormont sent Ravens Scrolls outlining the threat and re-emergence of the Others while still in Kings Landing on the Small Council as the Master of Coin. So this is why I believe King Jon and Queen Daenerys would align mainly to face the Others. "If" victory occurs and she remains alive then Daenerys reigns as the unified ruler of Westeros and Essos.

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On 23/8/2016 at 4:06 PM, Lord Vance II said:

snip

Outstanding!

You have described Dany’s situation and future much better and more down to earth without the blind adoration and actually paying attention to the facts that the majority of the posters are unwilling to see. Personally I haven’t seen many people and most importantly almost no one of his fans to do what you have done and that is why you have my respect.

On 23/8/2016 at 3:52 PM, Curled Finger said:

Exactly and well said.   Is there any hope the Unsullied, dragons, sellswords or knights will be able to keep the Dothraki in check?   I wonder if Dany gets so far as to enlist the Dothraki if there is any hope at all they will act within any rules of civil engagement (such as war is possible of attaining.)  Unless her attitudes and ideas change drastically between where we last saw her and arrival in Westeros Dany doesn't appear to be able to manage this effort.   I suppose any number of things could happen.   As I reread the last of your statement it occurs to me that perhaps the Dothraki could be useful in bringing Euron's Iron born to heel?   Vale Mountain Clans?   The Dothraki simply appear to be the land mines in all of this, but I don't know where other factions or people could be enlisted to help in the effort.   

 My guess is that she simply doesn’t care like she has already done to the cities she has already destroyed.

I don’t think that the Dothraki will be useful to anyone else than Dany herself.  They cannot *bring the Iron Borns to the heel* because Iron Borns power is mostly at the sea, where the Dothraki have no power,  not the land and the Vale Mountain Clans haven't caused such a problem to need a horde of barbarians who the only thing they are good at is pillaging, raping and killing. 

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5 hours ago, Jon's Queen Consort said:

Outstanding!

You have described Dany’s situation and future much better and more down to earth without the blind adoration and actually paying attention to the facts that the majority of the posters are unwilling to see. Personally I haven’t seen many people and most importantly almost no one of his fans to do what you have done and that is why you have my respect.

 My guess is that she simply doesn’t care like she has already done to the cities she has already destroyed.

I don’t think that the Dothraki will be useful to anyone else than Dany herself.  They cannot *bring the Iron Borns to the heel* because Iron Borns power is mostly at the sea, where the Dothraki have no power,  not the land and the Vale Mountain Clans haven't caused such a problem to need a horde of barbarians who the only thing they are good at is pillaging, raping and killing. 

The Attack on Westeros would need to be a "Blitzkrieg" if she intends to conquer and rule afterward. The entire conquest would need to be less than 6 months, Daenerys is more the Monarch, Tyrion is the diplomat and will have a more keen insight into the other spokes in the wheel and I see him sending the horde back to Dothrak when their use has ended. I am personally of a House Stark/Jon ''Snow''  bias; however, it is reasonably apparent that Daenerys has a juggernaut and three big dragons.

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3 minutes ago, Ez Ahai said:

The Attack on Westeros would need to be a "Blitzkrieg" if she intends to conquer and rule afterward. The entire conquest would need to be less than 6 months, Daenerys is more the Monarch, Tyrion is the diplomat and will have a more keen insight into the other spokes in the wheel and I see him sending the horde back to Dothrak when their use has ended. I am personally of a House Stark/Jon ''Snow''  bias; however, it is reasonably apparent that Daenerys has a juggernaut and three big dragons.

Why the Dothraki will be willing to leave tho? 

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7 hours ago, Jon's Queen Consort said:

Why the Dothraki will be willing to leave tho? 

I thought for some time on that question, then, it was my recollection in ADWD/Ch.22/Tyrion(PoV-6) that there was discussion about the Dothraki and some of Tyrion's tactical prowess as well:

  • ¶ Haldon Halfmaester explained. "On the way down from the Sorrows to Selhorys, we thrice glimpsed riders moving south along the rivers eastern shore. Dothraki. Once they were so close we could hear the bells tinkling in their braids, and sometimes at night their fires could be seen beyond the eastern hills. We passed warships as well, Volantene river galleys crammed with slave soldiers. The triarchs fear an attack on Selhorys, plainly.¶ Tyrion understood that quick enough. Alone amongst the major river towns, Selhorys stood upon the eastern bank of the Rhoyne, making it much more vulnerable to the horselords than its sister towns across the river. Even so, it is a small prize, if I were a khal, I would feint at Selhorys, let the Volantenes rush up to defend it, then swing south and ride hard for Volantis itself. 

Further along in the same chapter Tyrion is describing the political climate for the conquest of Westeros and the characteristics of Daenerys:

  • ¶ The dwarf shrugged. " I know that she spent her childhood in exile, impoverished, living on dreams and schemes, running from one city to the next, always fearful, never safe, friendless but for a brother who was by all accounts half mad... a brother who sold her maidenhood to the Dothraki for the promise of an army. I know that somewhere out upon the grass her dragons hatched, and so did she. I know she is proud. How not? What else was left but her pride? I know she is strong. How not? The Dothraki despise weakness. If Daenerys had been weak she would have perished with Viserys.
  • ¶ The Seven Kingdoms will never be more ripe for conquest than they are right now. A boy king sits the Iron Throne. The north is in chaos, the riverlands a devastation, a rebel holds Storms End & Dragonstone. When winter comes, the realm will starve. And who remains to deal with all of this, who rules the little king who rules the Seven Kingdoms? Why, my sweet sister. There is no one else. My brother Jaime, thirst for battle, not for power. He's run from every chance he's had to rule.

The basic answer is that the horde would be rewarded and returned back in the Great Grass Sea as they are naturally inclined, they may rebel and they may not, if they did the other houses would likely band together to meet them, and lest we forget, Winter is upon Westeros and the horses won't eat well when snow covers the grass, so it'll need to proceed quickly indeed.

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21 hours ago, Ez Ahai said:

Purely A Show/Book Analysis, yet Strategic Plan for "Dany's War Machine"

Daenerys leaves "Meereen" and presumably, she must sail south from the Bay of Dragons [formerly Slavers Bay] to the Gulf of Grief. Then westward around Valyria, turning North on The Summer Sea with Westeros in her sights.

Having recently formed alliances in Dorne and the Reach, it would be sound military strategy to have The Reach (Highgarden) capture Casterly Rock and with it the Westerlands [thus drawing the Lannister Army away from Kings Landing]. Once engaged the Crownlands would be quite defenseless.

The Frey's are in disarray so it makes sense for The Riverlands to be in play; Jaime Lannister wouldn't be foolish enough to believe letting Lord Edemure Tully return home would be a good idea so it makes sense that someone like Peter Baelish will want to maneuver there in order to claim it.

In my opinion Maidenpool, in the Crownlands stands as a good place to land an Army of Dothraki being flatter with plenty of freshwater due west, at Harrenhal, then south by southwest to Kings Landing and putting the horde between the Lannister Army and Kings Landing.

Kings Landing would fall quite easily, Have the Tyrrell's of Highgarden send massive amounts of food & position it all near the siege lines set up around Kings Landing, then; have Varys sneak in incognito, kill Quyburn or make an ally of him. Spread the word around Flea Bottom that as soon as they deliver Queen Cersie's head on a platter they can have all the food they can eat & in return for more they must support Daenerys to seat the Iron Throne. Keeping with reason, Tyrion would perhaps plead for his brother to be spared if he pledged loyalty to Daenerys; I don’t believe he’d accept it without Cersie joining him (which would be highly unlikely). The Tyrells and The Dornish Sand Snakes both want to see her demise as well. Therefore, Jaime would plead with her (Cersie) to join him going back to Casterly Rock and she'd refuse and likely want to burn the city to the ground. Jaime quite possibly would need to make a valonquar gesture. 

This is where it breaking the wheel gets tricky, a good tactician gains the most ground while sacrificing the least amount of soldiers, goods, and time, and lands; therefore, having the Army and Allies as Queen Daenerys does she’d want to quickly make another alliance with Lord Robert “Sweet Robyn” Eeryn and his Step-Father, Littlefinger, thus securing the Crownlands, The Eerie, The Reach, Dorne, and upon defeating the Lannister Army, The Westerlands. 

Now there are only two real regions to contend with: The North and the Iron Islands, the Iron Islands seem to be the more pressing of the two. The easiest way to destroy Euron and his fleet would be dragonfire and death from above off the shores of the Westerlands; afterward, the aligned Iron Islands would be soundly tamed.

The North will be concentrating on the threat from the Others and the fact that Winter has Come. I don’t see they'd pose a viable threat for Daenerys, nor do I believe it would be absolutely necessary for King Jon to wed Queen Daenerys, however, it’d be quite possible they’d want to meet and converse about death marching on the Wall. Tyrion knows Jon, and Tyrion knows that Lord Commander Mormont sent Ravens Scrolls outlining the threat and re-emergence of the Others while still in Kings Landing on the Small Council as the Master of Coin. So this is why I believe King Jon and Queen Daenerys would align mainly to face the Others. "If" victory occurs and she remains alive then Daenerys reigns as the unified ruler of Westeros and Essos.

Holy cow, you've really thought about this.   You've got some good strategies but blurring the line between show and book is well confusing.  Your scenario hinges a great deal on 2 of the 3 most able and available armies in Westeros joining Dany.    I'm dubious this will happen in the books.   If you've read any of the previous posts, there is an overwhelming sense that Dany will not land among friends.   I think it's a given that she will make some friends along the way, but it doesn't appear likely (to me, Ser, it's just an opinion) that she will find the welcome she's been told she will have.    Particularly if Aegon manages to get the entire South under control.  If she come in guns blazing and he's shaping up to be a good king, there will be resistance.   A lot of resistance.   Nonetheless I enjoyed the read and I can see HBO running with this ball.   Thanks for this. 

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1 minute ago, Curled Finger said:

Holy cow, you've really thought about this.   You've got some good strategies but blurring the line between show and book is well confusing.  Your scenario hinges a great deal on 2 of the 3 most able and available armies in Westeros joining Dany.    I'm dubious this will happen in the books.   If you've read any of the previous posts, there is an overwhelming sense that Dany will not land among friends.   I think it's a given that she will make some friends along the way, but it doesn't appear likely (to me, Ser, it's just an opinion) that she will find the welcome she's been told she will have.    Particularly if Aegon manages to get the entire South under control.  If she come in guns blazing and he's shaping up to be a good king, there will be resistance.   A lot of resistance.   Nonetheless I enjoyed the read and I can see HBO running with this ball.   Thanks for this. 

You are right about the show/book analysis being confusing; thank you and you & your kind words are also appreciated; yes, I have put quite a bit of thought into it... probably too much. Just to add, I also believe they are going to combine some of the Young Griffs plot between Daenerys, Jorah Mormont, and Jon Snow for the shows plot. The books however are presumably hinging on whether or not the Tyrell's and the Dornish ally the same as with the show, the Eerie would likely follow then as Baelish and the Tyrrell's already have common interest. I have a hunch that the Riverlands may end up getting Lord Edemure back courtesy of the alliances mentioned and an educated theory of how the Westerlands may rebel against the Lannisters. However, this goes without saying that there are many moving parts and only George RR Martin can know absolutely what will occur.

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10 hours ago, Ez Ahai said:

You are right about the show/book analysis being confusing; thank you and you & your kind words are also appreciated; yes, I have put quite a bit of thought into it... probably too much. Just to add, I also believe they are going to combine some of the Young Griffs plot between Daenerys, Jorah Mormont, and Jon Snow for the shows plot. The books however are presumably hinging on whether or not the Tyrell's and the Dornish ally the same as with the show, the Eerie would likely follow then as Baelish and the Tyrrell's already have common interest. I have a hunch that the Riverlands may end up getting Lord Edemure back courtesy of the alliances mentioned and an educated theory of how the Westerlands may rebel against the Lannisters. However, this goes without saying that there are many moving parts and only George RR Martin can know absolutely what will occur.

Ez, anyone who is able to come up with that sort of scenario obviously loves this story.   It is a pleasure to be among folks with this passion.   Good on you.   Frickin' Little Finger made mention of 3 Queens to Sansa.   I've wondered since then who that 3rd Queen really is.  So yes, there is that.  I'm also still holding out hope that Aegon and Dany will ally, unlikely as that seems.  , it would the be most economical way to get Dany "in charge".   I'm thinking this war machine of hers will be terrifying to the inhabitants of Westeros.   Then again, I think Westeros may be unsettling to Dany's host.   Unsullied, FreedMen and Dothraki have never encountered anything like Westeros I would imagine.  Westeros is free.   I don't mean to harp on it, I just see a hiccup in it.  Westeros by and large isn't a collection of meek inhabitants who will just pay to have them all go away.   They will fight.  In armor, with weapons and boldness, Westeros will fight. Your mention of Edmure's restoration has inspired some thoughts of potential tasks Dany would have to complete in order to gain the alliance of the great houses.  As much fun as it is to dream these up, I can't see Dany trying to gain favor with anyone in this manner.   Dany is often shortsighted and rash.   I'm not so certain she will be able to be either in Westeros.   I think there is a point at which she will be forced to consider her losses.   Ah geez, I only meant to bring up frickin Little Fingers' statement and you got me letting all the line out on my pole.   Sorry for all the rambling musing and thanks for giving me so much to consider.   

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3 hours ago, KINGpanther said:

Dothraki = Other calvary. I see Dany hitting the Others unaware of how dangerous they are so unleashes her Dothraki who charge in and get destroyed and rezed.

You know, I had to read it a couple of times to really get my head around this.  (Sorry it's still early in Mordor.)  I've been spinning my wheels on the initial reactions to Dany and her forces I hadn't considered her part in a stand against the Others--the value her forces could really have in endgame.   (Gads I had a flash of Unsullied spears just skewering wights like shishkebobs.)  Wow.   Can you imagine the reaction her people would have to an army of dead?  This is great.   Even if it never happens the potential is there.  

My rational mind says that in order for the Dothraki to get this far they will have done their fighting with the living.   I would think they would have to have established themselves in Westerosi culture.  Where would they live?   Would they live like nomadic Dothraki?  Would they live in castles and holdfasts?  How would their way of life change in order to assimilate?   Oh man, that's exciting stuff to consider.   

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5 hours ago, Curled Finger said:

You know, I had to read it a couple of times to really get my head around this.  (Sorry it's still early in Mordor.)  I've been spinning my wheels on the initial reactions to Dany and her forces I hadn't considered her part in a stand against the Others--the value her forces could really have in endgame.   (Gads I had a flash of Unsullied spears just skewering wights like shishkebobs.)  Wow.   Can you imagine the reaction her people would have to an army of dead?  This is great.   Even if it never happens the potential is there.  

My rational mind says that in order for the Dothraki to get this far they will have done their fighting with the living.   I would think they would have to have established themselves in Westerosi culture.  Where would they live?   Would they live like nomadic Dothraki?  Would they live in castles and holdfasts?  How would their way of life change in order to assimilate?   Oh man, that's exciting stuff to consider.   

Ah it would be so awesome if/when the Walkers get past the Wall, to have huge battles like the Field of Fire. Imagine phalanxes of Unsullied and spearmen, cavalry charges from knights and Dothraki, and of course dragons. 

I don't think the Dothraki would ever be welcome in Westeros. Both cultures are just too different. The Dothraki would have to prove themselves in war and raid (like the Ironborn?). The only idea I can think of is that if Winter is somehow defeated for good, there is a lot of open land north of the Wall? 

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5 hours ago, Curled Finger said:

You know, I had to read it a couple of times to really get my head around this.  (Sorry it's still early in Mordor.)  I've been spinning my wheels on the initial reactions to Dany and her forces I hadn't considered her part in a stand against the Others--the value her forces could really have in endgame.   (Gads I had a flash of Unsullied spears just skewering wights like shishkebobs.)  Wow.   Can you imagine the reaction her people would have to an army of dead?  This is great.   Even if it never happens the potential is there.  

My rational mind says that in order for the Dothraki to get this far they will have done their fighting with the living.   I would think they would have to have established themselves in Westerosi culture.  Where would they live?   Would they live like nomadic Dothraki?  Would they live in castles and holdfasts?  How would their way of life change in order to assimilate?   Oh man, that's exciting stuff to consider.   

A tad off topic, nevertheless:

There is a reason GRRM has the majority of the NW Castles uninhabited along its 300 mile span, could this be the purpose as a standoff point for Dany's War Machine v/s the Others or do you believe that the Others will pass the Wall?

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1 minute ago, theblackdragonI said:

Ah it would be so awesome if/when the Walkers get past the Wall, to have huge battles like the Field of Fire. Imagine phalanxes of Unsullied and spearmen, cavalry charges from knights and Dothraki, and of course dragons. 

I don't think the Dothraki would ever be welcome in Westeros. Both cultures are just too different. The Dothraki would have to prove themselves in war and raid (like the Ironborn?). The only idea I can think of is that if Winter is somehow defeated for good, there is a lot of open land north of the Wall? 

All true.   Still, how many opportunities with the Dothraki have to prove themselves?   We know they are fully capable warriors and raiders.  I'm having a harder time envisioning an orderly assembled Dothraki calvalry to be honest.   Not that I don't think it's possible, I just can't see it.   I also expect the army of the dead to show up after someone rightfully claims the IT.  Maybe my head cannon is getting in the way of picturing this.    Still you've brought up another brilliant point in the Iron Born living among (sort of) the Westerosi as reavers and raiders.   The cultural similarities between the IB and Dothraki are not inconsiderable.     Now that I'm thinking about it, that would be an epic sort of clash to read.   

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5 hours ago, Ser Joe of Generic Hall said:

Essentially, I think everyone is hoping that The Winds of Winter will be action packed full of WWII scale warfare ... a happy break from the courtroom intrigue that has taken the forefront since Feast for Crows.

Amen

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2 minutes ago, Ez Ahai said:

A tad off topic, nevertheless:

There is a reason GRRM has the majority of the NW Castles uninhabited along its 300 mile span, could this be the purpose as a standoff point for Dany's War Machine v/s the Others or do you believe that the Others will pass the Wall?

That might be the most fair question I've been asked.    There are actually only 2 castles uninhabited at the end of Dance.   Granted, the castles are only minimally inhabited, but they are all coming back to life.    To be honest, I never really expected Dany's host to go North inasmuch as I expected Dany and (insert names here) on the dragons to go.    It's cold there and I think it would be extremely difficult to maintain a live force in that kind of winter.   Look what's happening to Stannis and it's not even full Winter yet.   And this could just be my tunnel vision, too, as I do expect someone and 12 others with magic swords to have to trek way north of the Wall to end the madness with the Others.    So, I guess my answer is no, I don't expect the Wall to be breached by Others.   I do expect plenty of wights will get further South as whatever power drives the Others increases.   Who will believe if they don't get some proof of the Other's existence?   Wights suit this purpose just fine in my head.   

Don't get me wrong,those 19 castles have an important role to play.   I think those inhabitants will be crucial near endgame, but I don't see it necessarily as a stand off point and I can't imagine Dany's host could venture that far North.    I think the Wildlings will have to run that ball.  

So I have to ask how you see it going down?   Will Dany and her War Machine get that far?   

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