Inc4 Posted August 22, 2016 Share Posted August 22, 2016 Began my re-read of aGoT. I'm curious about why Jaime was wearing Crimson coloured at the King's Party in Winterfell instead of the White Cloak of the Kingsguard? I haven't reached this part yet but I was thinking, after attacking Ned Stark post-Tyrion's arrest, how did Jaime join Tywin's host? Isn't a Kingsguard sworn to protect the King? Isn't abandoning the King to support his father's wars considered as a desertion? Isn't it punishable just like the desertion of a Night's watch? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sensenmenn Posted August 22, 2016 Share Posted August 22, 2016 2 minutes ago, Inc4 said: Began my re-read of aGoT. I'm curious about why Jaime was wearing Crimson coloured at the King's Party in Winterfell instead of the White Cloak of the Kingsguard? I haven't reached this part yet but I was thinking, after attacking Ned Stark post-Tyrion's arrest, how did Jaime join Tywin's host? Isn't a Kingsguard sworn to protect the King? Isn't abandoning the King to support his father's wars considered as a desertion? Isn't it punishable just like the desertion of a Night's watch? Robert didn't care so no body cared. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Ned Stark Posted August 22, 2016 Share Posted August 22, 2016 25 minutes ago, Inc4 said: Began my re-read of aGoT. I'm curious about why Jaime was wearing Crimson coloured at the King's Party in Winterfell instead of the White Cloak of the Kingsguard? I haven't reached this part yet but I was thinking, after attacking Ned Stark post-Tyrion's arrest, how did Jaime join Tywin's host? Isn't a Kingsguard sworn to protect the King? Isn't abandoning the King to support his father's wars considered as a desertion? Isn't it punishable just like the desertion of a Night's watch? Why was he wearing a crimson cloak? Good question, I would take a guess that because Jaime, like Tywin and Cersei and even Tyrion, thought they could do whatever they wanted. And a depressed and neglectful King allowed them to do so. As far as the desertion questions, yes, I believe you are right. But Jaime seems to have a large following, who seem to really be invested in his so-called "redemption arc". I don't buy it, personally, because I need more reason than a guy who wants to be better written in the White Book. 25 minutes ago, Sensenmenn said: Robert didn't care so no body cared. Ned cared, he asked for leave to bring Jaime back to justice, Robert failed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boarsbane Posted August 22, 2016 Share Posted August 22, 2016 Because he is a Lannister. He also wears golden armor, it's probably not a big deal for a KG to not be in white constantly and Robert is the last king who'd give a shit what cloak Jaime wears. He literally killed his king, wearing a crimson cloak is not going to draw any more disgust than he already has. Obviously joining Tywin could be punishable but so was having Ned's men killed if Robert cared to. The difference is to punish him for join Tywin's army you have to go through Tywin's army. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoamingRonin Posted August 22, 2016 Share Posted August 22, 2016 It's all part of the degradation of the reputation of the kingsguard. That sort of thing wouldn't have been more frowned upon "back in the day". This is Jaime Lannister, after all. His honor as a kingsguard means very little to most people anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oakhearts head Posted August 22, 2016 Share Posted August 22, 2016 Yeah, as far as your first question is concerned, Inc4, at the time Jaime considered himself a Lannister first and a sworn brother of the Kingsguard second. As others have also said, Robert really couldn't have cared less. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Creighton Posted August 22, 2016 Share Posted August 22, 2016 I like to think part of the reason might have been he enjoyed the idea that it might piss off Ned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Ned Stark Posted August 22, 2016 Share Posted August 22, 2016 7 minutes ago, Ser Creighton said: I like to think part of the reason might have been he enjoyed the idea that it might piss off Ned. What was his reason for pissing off Ned? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Ned Stark Posted August 22, 2016 Share Posted August 22, 2016 16 minutes ago, RoamingRonin said: It's all part of the degradation of the reputation of the kingsguard. That sort of thing wouldn't have been more frowned upon "back in the day". This is Jaime Lannister, after all. His honor as a kingsguard means very little to most people anyway. Not sure I understand what you're saying. What other Kingsguard's wore family colors? Why should his honor mean anything to anyone, it didn't seem to matter to him, right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Runaway Penguin Posted August 22, 2016 Share Posted August 22, 2016 Most of KG we see off duty wear something else. Plus the influence of Cersei... Running off to the Riverlands was a desertion de facto, but de iure Eddard hadbigger fish to fry and Joffrey would definitely not press the case. And Starks did not ae he was a kg, he was Lannister first and foremost and alsready viewed as treacherous turncloak. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dofs Posted August 22, 2016 Share Posted August 22, 2016 IIRC, Jaime once mused about dressing himself differently for different occasions: white cloak if he needs to present himself as a member in KG or a Lannister garment if he needs to present himself as a Lannister. And that was in aFfC, when he was treating his position as KG very seriously. So Jaime sometimes not wearing a white cloak seems to be nothing special. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arya_Stupid! Posted August 22, 2016 Share Posted August 22, 2016 15 hours ago, Inc4 said: Began my re-read of aGoT. I'm curious about why Jaime was wearing Crimson coloured at the King's Party in Winterfell instead of the White Cloak of the Kingsguard? I haven't reached this part yet but I was thinking, after attacking Ned Stark post-Tyrion's arrest, how did Jaime join Tywin's host? Isn't a Kingsguard sworn to protect the King? Isn't abandoning the King to support his father's wars considered as a desertion? Isn't it punishable just like the desertion of a Night's watch? It was so jon could look on him in his Targ-esque colored clothes (red and black) and think how 'this was how a king should look'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cgrav Posted August 22, 2016 Share Posted August 22, 2016 Themes and symbols aside, the practical reason could be not to tip off strangers that a king is nearby. Most of the other KG would likely not be recognized on sight, except by their white cloaks. I think it's mentioned on a couple other occasions throughout the books how much the white cloak stands out. of course Jaime is easily recognizable to many, so any effort to conceal his identity is kinda pointless. Granted I don't think there's any direct textual support for this interpretation, but I like to think things happen in-story for reasons beyond literary necessity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoamingRonin Posted August 23, 2016 Share Posted August 23, 2016 On 8/21/2016 at 11:40 PM, King Ned Stark said: Not sure I understand what you're saying. What other Kingsguard's wore family colors? Why should his honor mean anything to anyone, it didn't seem to matter to him, right? It should read "would" not "wouldn't", my apologies. Typo. His honor is a pretty big part of his arc and matters a lot to many people. He only pretends not to care but it rubs him raw that so many people judge him for killing Aerys. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trigger Warning Posted August 23, 2016 Share Posted August 23, 2016 Robert doesn't care and Jaime is vain. Also a plot device to show Lannister arrogance and Jaime's disconnect from the kingsguard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trigger Warning Posted August 23, 2016 Share Posted August 23, 2016 On 22/08/2016 at 4:21 AM, RoamingRonin said: It's all part of the degradation of the reputation of the kingsguard. That sort of thing wouldn't have been more frowned upon "back in the day". This is Jaime Lannister, after all. His honor as a kingsguard means very little to most people anyway. "Jaime wore the white cloak of the Kingsguard over his golden armor" He was dressed like that when he killed Aerys which suggests that it may have been allowed in Aerys' Kingsguard as well. Considering that perhaps it's only really the cloak that matters, Whent wears his sigil on his helm, perhaps the full white armour is more common practice and less an actual rule. EDIT: Forgot the OP was talking about his crimson cloak and not the armour so just forget this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Dew Posted August 23, 2016 Share Posted August 23, 2016 Martin as always being so didactic, conveying the message of "Double Standards", because he is Jamie, son of Tywin of Casterly Rock of the Clan Lannister. Easy as that, and, we all remember what happened to the last king when he really pissed Jamie. In addition Robert Baratheon does not care about anything, and he understands that he is surrounded by Lannisters and their henchmen, in total opposition with the family feuds of the Baratheon Bros. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Leftwich Posted August 23, 2016 Share Posted August 23, 2016 Why could Arthur Dayne use the family sword? Why could Oswell Whent have bat wings on his helmet? Little affectations can be overlooked. The leaving to fight is a bit of a stretch, but no worse than what Catlyn did. Everyone was disrupting the King's peace. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sifth Posted August 23, 2016 Share Posted August 23, 2016 I really doubt an easy going guy like Robert would care about such a thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inc4 Posted August 26, 2016 Author Share Posted August 26, 2016 In Eddard II chapter in aGoT, below is a quote from Ned. “but his father is Warden of the West, Robert. In time Ser Jaime will succeed to that honor. And soon Robert responds, He is my wife’s twin, a Sworn Brother of the Kingsguard, his life and fortune and honor all bound to mine. Both their remarks seems to be contradicting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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