Jump to content

Bran. The darkness. And a return to thoughts on that Jon/Ghost/Bran/Weirwood dream from ACOK.


Recommended Posts

Been reading lots and lots on Bran in my spare time and nearly all my recent discussions and threads on here have been Bran related. I do subscribe to the ideas of Bran reaching through time to talk to people in different time frames etc but what I wanted to look at here was something that has been discussed loads of times and well covered but I fancied a stab at it since I have been thinking on it and reading the Clash chapters in question. 

I'll say I do believe in Bran possibly being able to reach through time to communicate from his Weirwood throne, and while there is a good case for it happening here, and I once leaned more to the idea myself that this was maybe somehow happening here, I am a believer that in this instance Bran is in the Winterfell Crypt when this dream communication happens. 

Aside from the strongest piece of evidence which sees Bran actually mention it in his next chapter, which is pretty much all most people ever need to confirm it, there is something else that helps to confirm Bran is indeed in the Crypt and not in the future on his Weirwood throne when he contacts Ghost/Jon. 

It's about the darkness. 

A lot of times in the theories it's mentioned as the strongest case 'for', that Bran must be in the cave in the future because he tells Jon that he likes the dark etc. and he apparently hates the darkness in the Crypts.

"Don't be afraid, I like it in the dark. No one can see you, but you can see them. But first you have to open your eyes. See? Like this. And the tree reached down and touched him."

People automatically take this to mean that because Bran is comfortable in the darkness he must be in BR's cave all safe and snug in his Weirwood as he has said he hates the darkness in the crypts. 
This is not necessarily true. It is said that he did not like the darkness of the Crypt but this is from the mind of Summer. This particular thought process is from the Wolf's perspective, not Brans, it's Summer who is the primary thinker here. 

"The dark place was pulling at him by then, the house of whispers where all men were blind. He could feel its cold fingers on him. The stony smell of it was a whisper up the nose. He struggled against the pull. He did not like the darkness. He was wolf. He was hunter and stalker and slayer, and he belonged with his brothers and sisters in the deep woods, running free beneath a starry sky. He sat on his haunches, raised his head, and howled. I will not go, he cried. I am wolf, I will not go."

So it is the Wolf, not boy, who does not like the darkness and prefers to be free running wild under starry skies. Bran himself has actually found comfort in the Crypts which is evident here from his own viewpoint. It seems there may be a struggle between Brans thoughts sometimes and Summers, but when Bran really thinks about it, he actually quite likes the darkness and this is what he relays to Ghost/Jon when he contacts him through the dream I believe.

"Bran had told himself a hundred times how much he hated hiding down here in the dark, how much he wanted to see the sun again, to ride his horse through wind and rain. But now that the moment was upon him, he was afraid. He'd felt safe in the darkness; when you could not even find your own hand in front of your face, it was easy to believe that no enemies could ever find you either. And the stone lords had given him courage. Even when he could not see them, he had known they were there."

So although Bran had thought at times he hated it down there(and it's not the darkness he hates really I suppose, it's actually just hating being away from the freedom of being in the sun and riding his horse etc) he actually felt comforted and safe in that darkness and I think that comes through when he talks to Ghost/Jon from the Crypts in the dream. 

So thinking on it now, with the most obvious piece of evidence being Bran actually mentions he contacted Jon in his next chapter, there is other pieces of decent evidence that Bran is in the crypts and makes contact with Ghost/Jon from there, instead of the Weirwood throne from a future point in time.

While re reading this I noticed another cool thing. Bloodraven really is correct about the darkness. When Bran is in pure darkness such as the Crypts or BR's cave it seems to help heighten his powers in some way. Maybe it is simply a focus thing but while in the black darkness of the Crypts Bran seems to come on leaps and bounds with his techniques and his third eye opens up, and I wonder if this somehow is helped by the pitch black darkness.

"Here in the chill damp darkness of the tomb his third eye had finally opened."

I Also think when Bran pulls some kind of double vision trick to survey Winterfell above and see how it is, this is a glimmer we see of a stronger power Bran will soon have where he no longer needs to use Summers eyes or Weirwood eyes to see things and I wonder if the Crypts/it's Darkness or whatever has helped him focus to do this in some way. 

It is easy to think he just slips Summers skin when he surveys Winterfell but I'm not so sure he is doing this, I'm convinced it's something more powerful happening here since his third eye has opened in the Darkness of the Crypts.

So maybe when BR tells him to embrace the darkness etc(although not in those exact words) it need not be as sinister as it sounds and has been made out to be in certain theories, and it is simply a way to help Bran focus and hone his skills. 

"There he sat, listening to the hoarse whispers of his teacher. "Never fear the darkness, Bran." The lord's words were accompanied by a faint rustling of wood and leaf, a slight twisting of his head. "The strongest trees are rooted in the dark places of the earth. Darkness will be your cloak, your shield, your mother's milk. Darkness will make you strong."

So instead of this sinister perception of Bran turning into this dark God or whatever, and have us all worry he is being corrupted by BR, maybe he is just being told that the darkness just helps to nurture a greenseers focus and power. 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

A quote from the World of Ice and Fire describing the beliefs of the followers of Boash, the Blind God (a splinter Valyrian religion)

Their eunuch priests wore eyeless hoods in honor of their god; only in darkness, they believed, would their third eye open, allowing them to see the "higher truths" of creation that lay concealed behind the world's illusions

Darkness seems to be a key ingredient in magic. Bran opens his third eye in the darkness of the crypts and Arya learns to skinchange the cat while blind. The concept seems to be shared by the Valyrians (Boash followers, Faceless Men) and the greenseers.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

14 minutes ago, Tucu said:

A quote from the World of Ice and Fire describing the beliefs of the followers of Boash, the Blind God (a splinter Valyrian religion)

Their eunuch priests wore eyeless hoods in honor of their god; only in darkness, they believed, would their third eye open, allowing them to see the "higher truths" of creation that lay concealed behind the world's illusions

Darkness seems to be a key ingredient in magic. Bran opens his third eye in the darkness of the crypts and Arya learns to skinchange the cat while blind. The concept seems to be shared by the Valyrians (Boash followers, Faceless Men) and the greenseers.

 

Nice one Tucu, thats a good addition to the thread. I haven't read the World book in a wee while and when i was doing my researching on darkness and third eyes opening/grennseer powers etc i foolishly only had the Clash and Dance searches running. Yet another plus point for how interesting the World book really is.

And pretty much backs up what im saying, cheers.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Another interesting bit from the world book is that the lands beyond Asshai are described as the heart of darkness and the city of Stygai is called the City of the Night

Most sinister of all the sorcerers of Asshai are the shadowbinders, whose lacquered masks hide their faces from the eyes of gods and men. They alone dare to go upriver past the walls of Asshai, into the heart of darkness

So for all the talk about the Lord of Light, Melissandre's and the Red Priests' beliefs and powers are deeply rooted in darkness.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The relationship to darkness and the strength it imbues is also emphasised in Arya's chapters:

Quote

"How long must I be blind?” she would ask. “Until darkness is as sweet to you as light,” the waif would say, “

^ It's after this point she starts her poison training, learning languages, and finally excelling in the Lying game. 

Through her imposed darkness, Arya's skinchanging is found, and she does it easily, slipping into an animal that is hard to control. She skinchanges the cat in her sleep, another state of darkness.

 

The darkness is a means for true seeing.

Quote

"You must now walk in darkness until you see the way” [the Kindly Man tells Arya] - ADWD

 

Speaking of the crypts, that reminds of this heart-warming scene:

Quote

Suddenly Arya remembered the crypts at Winterfell. They were a lot scarier than this place, she told herself. She’d been just a little girl the first time she saw them. Her brother Robb had taken them down, her and Sansa and baby Bran, who’d been no bigger than Rickon was now. They’d only had one candle between them, and Bran’s eyes had gotten as big as saucers as he stared at the stone faces of the Kings of Winter, with their wolves at their feet and their iron swords across their laps.

Robb took them all the way down to the end, past Grandfather and Brandon and Lyanna, to show them their own tombs. Sansa kept looking at the stubby little candle, anxious that it might go out. Old Nan had told her there were spiders down here, and rats as big as dogs. Robb smiled when she said that. “There are worse things than spiders and rats,” he whispered. “This is where the dead walk.” That was when they heard the sound, low and deep and shivery. Baby Bran had clutched at Arya’s hand.

When the spirit stepped out of the open tomb, pale white and moaning for blood, Sansa ran shrieking for the stairs, and Bran wrapped himself around Robb’s leg, sobbing. Arya stood her ground and gave the spirit a punch. It was only Jon, covered with flour. “You stupid,” she told him, “you scared the baby,” but Jon and Robb just laughed and laughed, and pretty soon Bran and Arya were laughing too.

The memory made Arya smile, and after that the darkness held no more terrors for her. AGoT

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

23 minutes ago, DutchArya said:

The relationship to darkness and the strength it imbues is also emphasised in Arya's chapters:

^ It's after this point she starts her poison training, learning languages, and finally excelling in the Lying game. 

Through her imposed darkness, Arya's skinchanging is found, and she does it easily, slipping into an animal that is hard to control. She skinchanges the cat in her sleep, another state of darkness.

 

The darkness is a means for true seeing.

 

Speaking of the crypts, that reminds of this heart-warming scene:

 

Yup, good points. So instead of this sinister view on Bran becoming all dark and evil under BR's tutelage, really BR is just schooling Bran on how the darkness is an awesome essential element for fine tuning his skills, and it is shared by other groups not just greenseers.

Good memory from Arya.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 8/22/2016 at 9:18 AM, Tucu said:

Another interesting bit from the world book is that the lands beyond Asshai are described as the heart of darkness and the city of Stygai is called the City of the Night

Most sinister of all the sorcerers of Asshai are the shadowbinders, whose lacquered masks hide their faces from the eyes of gods and men. They alone dare to go upriver past the walls of Asshai, into the heart of darkness

So for all the talk about the Lord of Light, Melissandre's and the Red Priests' beliefs and powers are deeply rooted in darkness.

Nice.  That ties in with the parallel @Black Crow was drawing on the Heresy thread of Bran's journey to Bloodraven with that depicted in Joseph Conrad's 'Heart of Darkness.'  The specification of going 'upriver' is particularly interesting, not only because it recapitulates the journey in the latter work, but also in terms of what the 'river' signifies in the context of ASOIAF:

Quote

A Dance with Dragons - Bran III

"You saw what you wished to see. Your heart yearns for your father and your home, so that is what you saw."

"A man must know how to look before he can hope to see," said Lord Brynden. "Those were shadows of days past that you saw, Bran. You were looking through the eyes of the heart tree in your godswood. Time is different for a tree than for a man. Sun and soil and water, these are the things a weirwood understands, not days and years and centuries. For men, time is a river. We are trapped in its flow, hurtling from past to present, always in the same direction. The lives of trees are different. They root and grow and die in one place, and that river does not move them. The oak is the acorn, the acorn is the oak. And the weirwood … a thousand human years are a moment to a weirwood, and through such gates you and I may gaze into the past."

"But," said Bran, "he heard me."

 

If 'time is a river,' then 'going upriver' or going against the flow is a rather apt description of what Bran is attempting to do.  Immediately following this, Bloodraven cautions Bran against trying to interact with or change the past -- which it's clear Bran does not accept.  Not only is Bran going 'upriver' with respect to time, he's also going 'upriver' with respect to his teachers (he's already demonstrated this keen curiosity and reluctance to take 'no' for an answer in his interactions with his mentors ever since his parents and Maester Luwin tried to call him to account, and failed).

With this metaphor in mind of Bran's time-travelling abilities as 'going upriver,' or navigating a river in general, there are a number of other quotes which are interesting to contemplate:

Quote

A Clash of Kings - Bran II

She should never have talked about the wolf dreams, Bran thought as Hodor carried him up the steps to his bedchamber. He fought against sleep as long as he could, but in the end it took him as it always did. On this night he dreamed of the weirwood. It was looking at him with its deep red eyes, calling to him with its twisted wooden mouth, and from its pale branches the three-eyed crow came flapping, pecking at his face and crying his name in a voice as sharp as swords.

The blast of horns woke him. Bran pushed himself onto his side, grateful for the reprieve. He heard horses and boisterous shouting. More guests have come, and half-drunk by the noise of them. Grasping his bars he pulled himself from the bed and over to the window seat. On their banner was a giant in shattered chains that told him that these were Umber men, down from the northlands beyond the Last River.

The next day two of them came together to audience; the Greatjon's uncles, blustery men in the winter of their days with beards as white as the bearskin cloaks they wore. A crow had once taken Mors for dead and pecked out his eye, so he wore a chunk of dragonglass in its stead. As Old Nan told the tale, he'd grabbed the crow in his fist and bitten its head off, so they named him Crowfood. She would never tell Bran why his gaunt brother Hother was called Whoresbane.

This is foreshadowing of Bran going into the northlands 'beyond the Last River,' in addition to pushing the boundaries of 'man'-time.  Bran's special gift of 'sight' is likened to an eye of 'dragonglass.'  I wonder who is the 'crowfood'?

Quote

A Dance with Dragons - Bran I

"He said, aye. He said he would take us to this three-eyed crow too. That river we crossed this morning is the same one we crossed four days ago, I swear. We're going in circles."

"Rivers turn and twist," Bran said uncertainly, "and where there's lakes and hills, you need to go around."

"There's been too much going around," Meera insisted, "and too many secrets. I don't like it. I don't like him. And I don't trust him. Those hands of his are bad enough. He hides his face, and will not speak a name. Who is he? What is he? Anyone can put on a black cloak. Anyone, or any thing. He does not eat, he never drinks, he does not seem to feel the cold."

A Feast for Crows - The Kraken's Daughter:  "You may read it here. It is old and fragile." He studied her, frowning. "Archmaester Rigney once wrote that history is a wheel, for the nature of man is fundamentally unchanging. What has happened before will perforce happen again, he said.  Brans's solution to 'the wheel of time' is 'you need to go around.'  On the surface, this would seem to indicate that Bran is content to follow the river's meandering course wherever that may take him; however, on a deeper level the implication is that Bran will learn to circumvent or 'short-circuit' the course of time, getting to his destination in a non-linear fashion.

Quote

A Dance with Dragons - Bran II

"Bones," said Bran. "It's bones." The floor of the passage was littered with the bones of birds and beasts. But there were other bones as well, big ones that must have come from giants and small ones that could have been from children. On either side of them, in niches carved from the stone, skulls looked down on them. Bran saw a bear skull and a wolf skull, half a dozen human skulls and near as many giants. All the rest were small, queerly formed. Children of the forest. The roots had grown in and around and through them, every one. A few had ravens perched atop them, watching them pass with bright black eyes.

The last part of their dark journey was the steepest. Hodor made the final descent on his arse, bumping and sliding downward in a clatter of broken bones, loose dirt, and pebbles. The girl child was waiting for them, standing on one end of a natural bridge above a yawning chasm. Down below in the darkness, Bran heard the sound of rushing water. An underground river.

"Do we have to cross?" Bran asked, as the Reeds came sliding down behind him. The prospect frightened him. If Hodor slipped on that narrow bridge, they would fall and fall.

'Beyond the last river,' there is an underground river apparently bottomless: it's referred to as an 'abyss' or gaping 'yawning chasm' etc. on several occasions, and moreover it's unclear in which direction it's flowing.  So, this time travelling is risky: 'the last part of their dark journey was the steepest'!  Bran protests 'do we have to cross?'  So, I expect he'll find a way of traversing the river of time without using the usual 'bridges.'

Quote

A Dance with Dragons - Bran III

Slipping into Summer's skin had become as easy for him as slipping on a pair of breeches once had been, before his back was broken. Changing his own skin for a raven's night-black feathers had been harder, but not as hard as he had feared, not with these ravens. "A wild stallion will buck and kick when a man tries to mount him, and try to bite the hand that slips the bit between his teeth," Lord Brynden said, "but a horse that has known one rider will accept another. Young or old, these birds have all been ridden. Choose one now, and fly."

He chose one bird, and then another, without success, but the third raven looked at him with shrewd black eyes, tilted its head, and gave a quork, and quick as that he was not a boy looking at a raven but a raven looking at a boy. The song of the river suddenly grew louder, the torches burned a little brighter than before, and the air was full of strange smells. When he tried to speak it came out in a scream, and his first flight ended when he crashed into a wall and ended back inside his own broken body. The raven was unhurt. It flew to him and landed on his arm, and Bran stroked its feathers and slipped inside of it again. Before long he was flying around the cavern, weaving through the long stone teeth that hung down from the ceiling, even flapping out over the abyss and swooping down into its cold black depths.

Then he realized he was not alone.

It's interesting that the river grows louder when Bran exercises his powers.  Bran is in his element-- Time is his medium.

Skinchanging the crow, he's able to effortlessly negotiate the abyss and weave through the long stone teeth.  Similarly, we can imagine Bran's time-travelling trick as 'weaving,' 'dodging,' 'flying,' 'swooping,' 'darting' 'or 'flapping' through time...the point is he's not stuck in the river of time like other men, who in contrast to him are consigned to 'wading,' 'floating,' 'drifting,' 'paddling,' at best 'swimming,' and at worst 'drowning' in it -- but he can also fly over and around it (one might call this capability the 'bird's-eye' or 'god's eye' view of time).  Actually, because Bran is versatile, and as I've highlighted before 'translation' between words, worlds, times, and people is his forte, Bran can probably switch between flying and swimming (he's half Tully trout after all...)

Quote

A Dance with Dragons - Bran III

 

Under the hill they still had food to eat. A hundred kinds of mushrooms grew down here. Blind white fish swam in the black river, but they tasted just as good as fish with eyes once you cooked them up. They had cheese and milk from the goats that shared the caves with the singers, even some oats and barleycorn and dried fruit laid by during the long summer. And almost every day they ate blood stew, thickened with barley and onions and chunks of meat. Jojen thought it might be squirrel meat, and Meera said that it was rat. Bran did not care. It was meat and it was good. The stewing made it tender.

The caves were timeless, vast, silent. They were home to more than three score living singers and the bones of thousands dead, and extended far below the hollow hill. "Men should not go wandering in this place," Leaf warned them. "The river you hear is swift and black, and flows down and down to a sunless sea. And there are passages that go even deeper, bottomless pits and sudden shafts, forgotten ways that lead to the very center of the earth. Even my people have not explored them all, and we have lived here for a thousand thousand of your man-years."

Here an indication that Bran's operating beyond or out of time now, 'the caves were timeless.'  Time has hidden passagesbottomless pits, sudden shafts, and forgotten ways...the implication being that Bran will be the one to learn and/or mysteriously remember this 'language he had once known and somehow forgotten.'  Time is a language, a song, -- and to reiterate Bran is the translator and singer thereof:

A Clash of Kings - Bran I:  'He could almost understand them . . . not quite, not truly, but almost . . . as if they were singing in a language he had once known and somehow forgotten.' 

Given that Leaf cautions Bran not to go exploring (i.e. which should be understood as a metaphor for time-exploration), and moreover says that even experienced greenseers who have lived for 'a thousand thousand years' have not explored all these 'forgotten ways,' it's implied that Bran is potentially destined to be among the most powerful greenseers, if not the most powerful, should he be able to accomplish this feat of 'translation.'  I have a sneaky suspicion she may be using a 'reverse-psychology' tactic with Bran here, since by cautioning him from 'wandering,' indeed forbidding him from doing anything (remember, the climbing ultimatum at Winterfell, and how that ended...), is the surest way to get Bran to do something!  As has been suggested on other threads, the Children may have some ulterior motive with regards to Bran, and getting him 'hooked' into the tree and into time on their behalf would suit their possibly nefarious purposes.

With respect to the principle focus of this thread on darkness facilitating the opening of Bran's third-eye, the 'blind white fish' who 'taste just as good as fish with eyes' swimming through the black river of time are probably a metaphor for Bran.  Additionally, there are ominous connotations to the 'cooking' and 'eating' aspect of the transformation, which I've elaborated on before on the 'Bran's growing powers' re-read thread and others, and won't go into here.  Bran's destination and destiny -- a 'sunless sea' -- is a beautiful alliterative image which is also a pun on 'sunless see,' i.e. 'dark-seeing.'  Incidentally, GRRM has stolen this one, among many other motifs which you'll easily recognise, if you don't already, straight from the following poet:

Quote

Kubla Khan

SAMUEL TAYLOR COLERIDGE

Or, a vision in a dream. A Fragment. 

 

In Xanadu did Kubla Khan 

A stately pleasure-dome decree: 

Where Alph, the sacred river, ran 

Through caverns measureless to man 

   Down to a sunless sea. 

So twice five miles of fertile ground 

With walls and towers were girdled round; 

And there were gardens bright with sinuous rills, 

Where blossomed many an incense-bearing tree; 

And here were forests ancient as the hills, 

Enfolding sunny spots of greenery. 

 

But oh! that deep romantic chasm which slanted 

Down the green hill athwart a cedarn cover! 

A savage place! as holy and enchanted 

As e’er beneath a waning moon was haunted 

By woman wailing for her demon-lover! 

And from this chasm, with ceaseless turmoil seething, 

As if this earth in fast thick pants were breathing, 

A mighty fountain momently was forced: 

Amid whose swift half-intermitted burst 

Huge fragments vaulted like rebounding hail, 

Or chaffy grain beneath the thresher’s flail: 

And mid these dancing rocks at once and ever 

It flung up momently the sacred river. 

Five miles meandering with a mazy motion 

Through wood and dale the sacred river ran, 

Then reached the caverns measureless to man, 

And sank in tumult to a lifeless ocean; 

And ’mid this tumult Kubla heard from far 

Ancestral voices prophesying war! 

   The shadow of the dome of pleasure 

   Floated midway on the waves; 

   Where was heard the mingled measure 

   From the fountain and the caves. 

It was a miracle of rare device, 

A sunny pleasure-dome with caves of ice! 

 

   A damsel with a dulcimer 

   In a vision once I saw: 

   It was an Abyssinian maid 

   And on her dulcimer she played, 

   Singing of Mount Abora. 

   Could I revive within me 

   Her symphony and song, 

   To such a deep delight ’twould win me, 

That with music loud and long, 

I would build that dome in air, 

That sunny dome! those caves of ice! 

And all who heard should see them there, 

And all should cry, Beware! Beware! 

His flashing eyes, his floating hair! 

Weave a circle round him thrice, 

And close your eyes with holy dread 

For he on honey-dew hath fed, 

And drunk the milk of Paradise.

 

Quote

A Dance with Dragons - Bran III

She seemed sad when she said it, and that made Bran sad as well. It was only later that he thought, Men would not be sad. Men would be wroth. Men would hate and swear a bloody vengeance. The singers sing sad songs, where men would fight and kill.

One day Meera and Jojen decided to go see the river, despite Leaf's cautions. "I want to come too," Bran said.

Meera gave him a mournful look. The river was six hundred feet below, down steep slopes and twisty passages, she explained, and the last part required climbing down a rope. "Hodor could never make the climb with you on his back. I'm sorry, Bran."

Bran remembered a time when no one could climb as good as him, not even Robb or Jon. Part of him wanted to shout at them for leaving him, and another part wanted to cry. He was almost a man grown, though, so he said nothing. But after they were gone, he slipped inside Hodor's skin and followed them.

So Leaf's possible 'reverse psychology' tactics had the desired effect on Bran!  Despite and/or because of Leaf's warnings and his friends' protestations, Bran predictably finds a way to circumvent the restrictions placed on him by others, overcoming them as well as his own limitations by committing what is arguably the abomination of skinchanging Hodor so that he can go exploring 'the river' on the sly.  Thereby, it's also implied that interfering in time via time exploration might by a sort of abomination.  

Quote

A Dance with Dragons - Bran III

"Close your eyes," said the three-eyed crow. "Slip your skin, as you do when you join with Summer. But this time, go into the roots instead. Follow them up through the earth, to the trees upon the hill, and tell me what you see."

Bran closed his eyes and slipped free of his skin. Into the roots, he thought. Into the weirwood. Become the tree. For an instant he could see the cavern in its black mantle, could hear the river rushing by below.

Then all at once he was back home again.

Another example both of how when Bran time travels the river is amplified, and closing his eyes facilitates seeing in the dark 'for an instant he could see...could hear...then all at once he was back home again.'  This all happens 'in an instant...all at once,' so it's clear time is not passing for Bran the way it does for those who are trapped in the river.  Otherwise stated, Bran has found other ways of passing time!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

8 hours ago, Macgregor of the North said:

While re reading this I noticed another cool thing. Bloodraven really is correct about the darkness. When Bran is in pure darkness such as the Crypts or BR's cave it seems to help heighten his powers in some way. Maybe it is simply a focus thing but while in the black darkness of the Crypts Bran seems to come on leaps and bounds with his techniques and his third eye opens up, and I wonder if this somehow is helped by the pitch black darkness.

"Here in the chill damp darkness of the tomb his third eye had finally opened."

In fact, I'd like to add, BR probably says this due to his own experiences - his "third eye" might have finally opened when he was imprisoned in the dungeons of the Red Keep before being sent to the Wall.

Will respond a little better later, but I agree with the general notion that "darkness" as such should not be confused as sinister or evil in this series -  GRRM loves turning traditional notions of good/bad, light/dark, black/white etc. on it's head.

7 hours ago, Tucu said:

A quote from the World of Ice and Fire describing the beliefs of the followers of Boash, the Blind God (a splinter Valyrian religion)

Their eunuch priests wore eyeless hoods in honor of their god; only in darkness, they believed, would their third eye open, allowing them to see the "higher truths" of creation that lay concealed behind the world's illusions

Darkness seems to be a key ingredient in magic. Bran opens his third eye in the darkness of the crypts and Arya learns to skinchange the cat while blind. The concept seems to be shared by the Valyrians (Boash followers, Faceless Men) and the greenseers.

 

Great observation!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

27 minutes ago, ravenous reader said:

snip

Although I keep the option of Bran's timeline altering capabilities open, the weirwoods, the underground sea and the greenseers have a direct parallel with Yggdrasil, Urðarbrunnr (well of fate) and the 3 Norns that decide the fate of men.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

5 minutes ago, Little Scribe of Naath said:

In fact, I'd like to add, BR probably says this due to his own experiences - his "third eye" might have finally opened when he was imprisoned in the dungeons of the Red Keep before being sent to the Wall.

Good point.  Gives a new spin on the idiom 'to take the black'!

6 minutes ago, Little Scribe of Naath said:

I agree with the general notion that "darkness" as such should not be confused as sinister or evil in this series -  GRRM loves turning traditional notions of good/bad, light/dark, black/white etc. on it's head.

Agreed.  Darkness can be many things -- protective, nurturing, eye-opening, etc...  Paradoxically, one might be able to see further in the dark, e.g. by analogy, one can see the stars at night, whereas the sun blinds one from doing so during the day.  Furthermore, under certain circumstances light is equated with evil (cf. 'lucifer'=lightbriger) and vice versa, namely darkness with virtue.

Again, this is not a new concept, and clearly one which GRRM has lifted from others.  It's much beloved by mystics throughout time, for example in the tradition of religious metaphysical poets:

Quote

The Night

 

BY HENRY VAUGHAN

                         John 3.2

 

         Through that pure virgin shrine,

That sacred veil drawn o’er Thy glorious noon,

That men might look and live, as glowworms shine,

             And face the moon,

    Wise Nicodemus saw such light

    As made him know his God by night.

 

         Most blest believer he!

Who in that land of darkness and blind eyes

Thy long-expected healing wings could see,

             When Thou didst rise!

    And, what can never more be done,

    Did at midnight speak with the Sun!

 

         O who will tell me where

He found Thee at that dead and silent hour?

What hallowed solitary ground did bear

             So rare a flower,

    Within whose sacred leaves did lie

    The fulness of the Deity?

 

         No mercy-seat of gold,

No dead and dusty cherub, nor carved stone,

But His own living works did my Lord hold

             And lodge alone;

    Where trees and herbs did watch and peep

    And wonder, while the Jews did sleep.

 

         Dear night! this world’s defeat;

The stop to busy fools; care’s check and curb;

The day of spirits; my soul’s calm retreat

             Which none disturb!

    Christ’s progress, and His prayer time;

    The hours to which high heaven doth chime;

 

         God’s silent, searching flight;

When my Lord’s head is filled with dew, and all

His locks are wet with the clear drops of night;

             His still, soft call;

    His knocking time; the soul’s dumb watch,

    When spirits their fair kindred catch.

 

         Were all my loud, evil days

Calm and unhaunted as is thy dark tent,

Whose peace but by some angel’s wing or voice

             Is seldom rent,

    Then I in heaven all the long year

    Would keep, and never wander here.

 

         But living where the sun

Doth all things wake, and where all mix and tire

Themselves and others, I consent and run

             To every mire,

    And by this world’s ill-guiding light,

    Err more than I can do by night.

 

         There is in God, some say,

A deep but dazzling darkness, as men here

Say it is late and dusky, because they

             See not all clear.

    O for that night! where I in Him

    Might live invisible and dim!

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 minutes ago, Tucu said:

Although I keep the option of Bran's timeline altering capabilities open, the weirwoods, the underground sea and the greenseers have a direct parallel with Yggdrasil, Urðarbrunnr (well of fate) and the 3 Norns that decide the fate of men.

Yes, this is obviously an ancient archetype, as evidenced by comparative mythology.  I just love playing with the text itself!.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

10 hours ago, Little Scribe of Naath said:

In fact, I'd like to add, BR probably says this due to his own experiences - his "third eye" might have finally opened when he was imprisoned in the dungeons of the Red Keep before being sent to the Wall.

Will respond a little better later, but I agree with the general notion that "darkness" as such should not be confused as sinister or evil in this series -  GRRM loves turning traditional notions of good/bad, light/dark, black/white etc. on it's head.

Great observation!

That's a great thought LSoN! I had myself personally thought that his journey with greenseeing may have started in his youth and possibly involved losing one eye, although I'm not sure if he was in any kind of coma state with injuries, he would certainly have had to rest for long periods of time after fighting in that war with Bittersteel and this may have awoken some of his powers as he is a very powerful man it seems with his sorcery way before 233AC when he was imprisoned. 

Although, your idea is brilliant and you do say his third eye could have 'finally' opened in the darkness of the cells. So maybe his power was growing from youth, he may have been earmarked by the singers like Bran was earmarked by him, for important duties, but it's not until he is in the darkness of the cells that some kind of absolute transition happens from powerful sorcerer type greenseer in the making, to a next level master greenseer in the making. Very interesting.

What I have toyed with In the past and I'll warn you this is kind of crackpot but hey ho it's my thread so I'll let rip lol. 

This only works if Hodor is Dunks descendent by the way. 

What if Bloodraven has some kind of vision/dream etc that Duncan the Tall must travel north, as he is important in Bloodravens plans in that he must meet with young Nan again, who he met previously at WF during Dagon Greyjoys rebellion and shared a romantic moment and farewell kiss in front of the Weirwood. But this time, Dunk and Nan must go one step further and produce a child who's line will go on to produce Hodor, who will become Bran Stark's personal travel vessel and companion to help him reach himself(Bloodraven) in the cave in the future. 

I have always reasoned that it's not such a long shot that Bloodraven told Egg of this plans and Egg obliged to let Dunk go for this purpose. And the idea of Dunk riding south briefly to WF to check on the inhabitants he and Egg helped back during Dagons uprising, after he sees BR to the Wall isn't actually that much of a long shot. 

We know Egg insisted that Dunk head North with Aemon and Bloodraven from Maester Aemon in AFFC. 

" Egg wanted me to help him rule, but I knew my place was here. He sent me north aboard the Golden Dragon, and insisted that his friend Ser Duncan see me safe to Eastwatch. No recruit had arrived at the Wall with so much pomp since Nymeria sent the Watch six kings in golden fetters. Egg emptied out the dungeons too, so I would not need to say my vows alone. My honor guard, he called them. One was no less a man than Brynden Rivers. Later he was chosen lord commander."

Basically, what if Egg sending Dunk North had a deeper meaning than were lead to believe and it's due to something BR told Egg concerning the future.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

10 hours ago, aryagonnakill#2 said:

I personally think that was a prophetic Targ dream Jon was having, and that we will see this full interaction in the next book while Jon is stuck in Ghost.  As a result I don't think Bran was communicating through time.

Must admit, I have never thought of that dream as a prophetic Targ dream before. And now, I'm asking myself why not. Interesting. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

13 hours ago, Macgregor of the North said:

That's a great thought LSoN! I had myself personally thought that his journey with greenseeing may have started in his youth and possibly involved losing one eye, although I'm not sure if he was in any kind of coma state with injuries, he would certainly have had to rest for long periods of time after fighting in that war with Bittersteel and this may have awoken some of his powers as he is a very powerful man it seems with his sorcery way before 233AC when he was imprisoned. 

Although, your idea is brilliant and you do say his third eye could have 'finally' opened in the darkness of the cells. So maybe his power was growing from youth, he may have been earmarked by the singers like Bran was earmarked by him, for important duties, but it's not until he is in the darkness of the cells that some kind of absolute transition happens from powerful sorcerer type greenseer in the making, to a next level master greenseer in the making. Very interesting.

Yeah, this is similar to what I thought as well. BR probably knew some kind of sorcery, had moderate-level warging powers, could work glamours and stuff (think: similar to Arya in the books), but his "third eye" - basically his greenseeing powers - might have finally awakened in the darkness of the cells. My guess is he had his version of Bran's AGOT dream there, basically.

13 hours ago, Macgregor of the North said:

Basically, what if Egg sending Dunk North had a deeper meaning than were lead to believe and it's due to something BR told Egg concerning the future.

It's possible, but we can't say anything for sure until we get more detail on Dunk, Egg, BR and the rest :(. BR was a Targ, so it's possible that he could have seen the future in some way. However, I wonder how he managed to interpret any dreams he had correctly, if that was the case. What I wouldn't give for a Brynden Rivers POV! 

 

Side note: I'm from India, and the story of BR/Bran's "third eye" always reminds me of the Hindu deity Lord Shiva, termed as "the Destroyer". According to ancient mythology, he is an ascetic who resided in a cave in the snowy Himalayan mountain peaks, and one of his most distinguishing features is his third eye, which contains immense power. The opening of the "third eye" has both a light and dark association -   it represents spiritual awakening, wisdom, providing perception beyond the ordinary (as in ASOIAF), but it's also believed that if he opens his third eye when enraged, it will result in the end of the world (hence, the epithet, "the Destroyer"). There are stories where he has used it to provide light to the world when it was shrouded in darkness, and also stories where he has used it to burn his enemies to ashes.

The above was a long-winded way of saying - Bran's magical powers can be incredibly beneficial or horribly destructive, depending on how he chooses to wield it. The consequences of his powers (especially when we throw time manipulation into the mix) would be extremely far-reaching. Hence why I am worried about how the Children and BR are training Bran - I don't think they are getting this message across to him.

 

On 8/22/2016 at 4:18 PM, ravenous reader said:

Agreed.  Darkness can be many things -- protective, nurturing, eye-opening, etc...  Paradoxically, one might be able to see further in the dark, e.g. by analogy, one can see the stars at night, whereas the sun blinds one from doing so during the day.  Furthermore, under certain circumstances light is equated with evil (cf. 'lucifer'=lightbriger) and vice versa, namely darkness with virtue

I agree with this.

 

Specifically, I'd say,there is a great case to be made for the Starks - especially Arya and Bran's powers growing exponentially in the darkness. These two - and I'd say even little Rickon - seem to have an affinity to darkness and appear to flourish in it:

Arya in the tunnels of the Red Keep, AGOT:

Quote

It was very dark right now, she realized. She hugged her bare knees tight against her chest and shivered. She would wait quietly and count to ten thousand. By then it would be safe for her to come creeping back out and find her way home.

By the time she had reached eighty-seven, the room had begun to lighten as her eyes adjusted to the blackness. Slowly the shapes around her took on form. Huge empty eyes stared at her hungrily through the gloom, and dimly she saw the jagged shadows of long teeth. She had lost the count. She closed her eyes and bit her lip and sent the fear away. When she looked again, the monsters would be gone. Would never have been. She pretended that Syrio was beside her in the dark, whispering in her ear. Calm as still water, she told herself. Strong as a bear. Fierce as a wolverine. She opened her eyes again.

The monsters were still there, but the fear was gone.

 

Rickon in AGOT, the crypts:

Quote

His baby brother had been wild as a winter storm since he learned Robb was riding off to war, weeping and angry by turns. He'd refused to eat, cried and screamed for most of a night, even punched Old Nan when she tried to sing him to sleep, and the next day he'd vanished. Robb had set half the castle searching for him, and when at last they'd found him down in the crypts, Rickon had slashed at them with a rusted iron sword he'd snatched from a dead king's hand, and Shaggydog had come slavering out of the darkness like a green-eyed demon. The wolf was near as wild as Rickon; he'd bitten Gage on the arm and torn a chunk of flesh from Mikken's thigh. It had taken Robb himself and Grey Wind to bring him to bay. Farlen had the black wolf chained up in the kennels now, and Rickon cried all the more for being without him.

There is a lot of speculation that Rickon had been warging Shaggy unconsciously in AGOT, this is one of the indicators. In any case, Rickon loves spending time in the crypts, which is unusual for a three year old.

Rickon, again:

Quote

Maester Luwin stepped toward the open sepulchre, torch in hand. "As you see, he's not here. Nor will he be, for many a year. Dreams are only dreams, child." He thrust his arm into the blackness inside the tomb, as into the mouth of some great beast. "Do you see? It's quite empt—"

The darkness sprang at him, snarling.

Bran saw eyes like green fire, a flash of teeth, fur as black as the pit around them. Maester Luwin yelled and threw up his hands. The torch went flying from his fingers, caromed off the stone face of Brandon Stark, and tumbled to the statue's feet, the flames licking up his legs. In the drunken shifting torchlight, they saw Luwin struggling with the direwolf, beating at his muzzle with one hand while the jaws closed on the other.

Rickon's down there because he had a dream of his father, so we definitely know there is some latent magical power which has woken in him.

Quote

Rickon: No. I like it here."

Bran : "It's dark here. And cold."

Rickon: "I'm not afraid. I have to wait for Father."

 

Arya, ACOK, expressing that she likes being underground:

Quote

Arya rolled headfirst into the tunnel and dropped five feet. She got dirt in her mouth but she didn't care, the taste was fine, the taste was mud and water and worms and life. Under the earth the air was cool and dark. Above was nothing but blood and roaring red and choking smoke and the screams of dying horses. 

Bran, ACOK:

Quote

When he blew out his bedside candle, darkness covered him like a soft, familiar blanket. The faint sound of music drifted through his shuttered window.

 

Arya, ACOK, practicing her water dancing at night:

Quote

Whenever she had a free hour she stole away to work at the drills Syrio had taught her, moving barefoot over the fallen leaves, slashing at branches and whacking down leaves. Sometimes she even climbed the trees and danced among the upper branches, her toes gripping the limbs as she moved back and forth, teetering a little less every day as her balance returned to her. Night was the best time; no one ever bothered her at night.

 

This is of course, in addition to Arya and Bran's training in literal darkness in ADWD...the fact that their first taste of magic powers begin at night, when they warg their wolves in their sleep...the symbolism of Kings of Winter being entombed in the dark crypts...the obvious symbolism of the phrase "hour of the wolf".. and so on.

I am not sure what to exactly make of all this, except that darkness does seem to provide strength to the most wolf-like Starks, and it could possibly indicate that they have very vital roles to play during the Long Night.

We all know when the wolves come, after all:

Quote

"Come dark, there'll be wolves here, and worse."

Wolves were prowling through the dark like lean grey shadows.

:devil:

 

Edit: Forgot to add this in:

Quote

“The night before an acolyte says his vows, he must stand a vigil in the vault. No lantern is permitted him, no torch, no lamp, no taper . . . only a candle of obsidian. He must spend the night in darkness, unless he can light that candle. Some will try. The foolish and the stubborn, those who have made a study of these so-called higher mysteries. Often they cut their fingers, for the ridges on the candles are said to be as sharp as razors. Then, with bloody hands, they must wait upon the dawn, brooding on their failure. 

Could be another reference to the fact that those who have knowledge of the higher mysteries (magic) don't need to fear the darkness: they can light the obsidian candle.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 8/22/2016 at 3:59 PM, Little Scribe of Naath said:

I'd like to add, BR probably says this due to his own experiences - his "third eye" might have finally opened when he was imprisoned in the dungeons of the Red Keep before being sent to the Wall.

That's a good point.  As an albino, Bloodraven would also have had to shield himself, particularly his skin and eyes, from the sun.

1 hour ago, Little Scribe of Naath said:

Side note: I'm from India, and the story of BR/Bran's "third eye" always reminds me of the Hindu deity Lord Shiva, termed as "the Destroyer". According to ancient mythology, he is an ascetic who resided in a cave in the snowy Himalayan mountain peaks, and one of his most distinguishing features is his third eye, which contains immense power. The opening of the "third eye" has both a light and dark association -   it represents spiritual awakening, wisdom, providing perception beyond the ordinary (as in ASOIAF), but it's also believed that if he opens his third eye when enraged, it will result in the end of the world (hence, the epithet, "the Destroyer"). There are stories where he has used it to provide light to the world when it was shrouded in darkness, and also stories where he has used it to burn his enemies to ashes.

The above was a long-winded way of saying - Bran's magical powers can be incredibly beneficial or horribly destructive, depending on how he chooses to wield it. The consequences of his powers (especially when we throw time manipulation into the mix) would be extremely far-reaching. Hence why I am worried about how the Children and BR are training Bran - I don't think they are getting this message across to him.

That's interesting.  I think that's exactly the duality GRRM is so caught up in exploring.  And you're right about the latter concern, namely that Bran has not yet learned the lesson of his own limitations and excesses...as of yet, we have not seen him temper his powers.  He is still hopping into Hodor at will -- which it's impossible to argue is not an 'abomination' of some kind -- and generally, like the mythological figure Icarus, 'flying too close to the sun.'  

1 hour ago, Little Scribe of Naath said:

There is a lot of speculation that Rickon had been warging Shaggy unconsciously in AGOT, this is one of the indicators. In any case, Rickon loves spending time in the crypts, which is unusual for a three year old.

His wolf has green eyes, which are, according to what the Children tell Bran, indicators of those ones especially gifted with the 'sight.'  From this, taken together with Rickon's and Shaggy's behavior, we may suspect that Rickon -- like Jojen who also has green eyes -- has been able to foresee not only his father's and Robb's deaths before anyone else, but perhaps also his own ('today is not the day I die...')  Perhaps that's why he acts so haunted and lashes out, along with his wolf; his relatively non-verbal three-year-old mind straining to comprehend and effectively express the terrifying enormity of what he's seen.  

Sadly, this may be foreshadowing of Rickon's early death:

Quote

A Clash of Kings - Bran II

No sooner had Hodor entered the godswood than Summer emerged from under an oak, almost as if he had known they were coming. Bran glimpsed a lean black shape watching from the undergrowth as well. "Shaggy," he called. "Here, Shaggydog. To me." But Rickon's wolf vanished as swiftly as he'd appeared.

Shaggydog frequents 'the undergrowth' and the crypts, 'the underground,' which might signify that Rickon, in addition to being able to commune with 'the underworld,' already has one foot in the grave.

On 8/22/2016 at 4:09 PM, aryagonnakill#2 said:

I personally think that was a prophetic Targ dream Jon was having, and that we will see this full interaction in the next book while Jon is stuck in Ghost.  As a result I don't think Bran was communicating through time.

Would you elaborate?  How do you account for the weirwood sapling?  What does a weirwood have to do with Targaryens, besides their proclivity for burning them down?

1 hour ago, Little Scribe of Naath said:

Rickon's down there because he had a dream of his father, so we definitely know there is some latent magical power which has woken in him.

Quote

Rickon: No. I like it here."

Bran : "It's dark here. And cold."

Rickon: "I'm not afraid. I have to wait for Father."

Later he does become afraid of whatever he sees in that darkness, though.

1 hour ago, Little Scribe of Naath said:

Arya, ACOK, expressing that she likes being underground:

Quote

Arya rolled headfirst into the tunnel and dropped five feet. She got dirt in her mouth but she didn't care, the taste was fine, the taste was mud and water and worms and life. Under the earth the air was cool and dark. Above was nothing but blood and roaring red and choking smoke and the screams of dying horses. 

That's a great example.  The 'mud' also has a magical association with the Crannog people, including Jojen and Meera:

Quote

A Storm of Swords - Bran I

"The gods give many gifts, Bran. My sister is a hunter. It is given to her to run swiftly, and stand so still she seems to vanish. She has sharp ears, keen eyes, a steady hand with net and spear. She can breathe mud and fly through trees. I could not do these things, no more than you could. To me the gods gave the green dreams, and to you . . . you could be more than me, Bran. You are the winged wolf, and there is no saying how far and high you might fly . . . if you had someone to teach you. How can I help you master a gift I do not understand? We remember the First Men in the Neck, and the children of the forest who were their friends . . . but so much is forgotten, and so much we never knew."

 

A Dance with Dragons - Reek II

He was being watched. He could feel the eyes. When he looked up, he caught a glimpse of pale faces peering from behind the battlements of the Gatehouse Tower and through the broken masonry that crowned the Children's Tower, where legend said the children of the forest had once called down the hammer of the waters to break the lands of Westeros in two.

The only dry road through the Neck was the causeway, and the towers of Moat Cailin plugged its northern end like a cork in a bottle. The road was narrow, the ruins so positioned that any enemy coming up from the south must pass beneath and between them. To assault any of the three towers, an attacker must expose his back to arrows from the other two, whilst climbing damp stone walls festooned with streamers of slimy white ghostskin. The swampy ground beyond the causeway was impassable, an endless morass of suckholes, quicksands, and glistening green swards that looked solid to the unwary eye but turned to water the instant you trod upon them, the whole of it infested with venomous serpents and poisonous flowers and monstrous lizard lions with teeth like daggers. Just as dangerous were its people, seldom seen but always lurking, the swamp-dwellers, the frog-eaters, the mud-men. Fenn and Reed, Peat and Boggs, Cray and Quagg, Greengood and Blackmyre, those were the sorts of names they gave themselves. The ironborn called them all bog devils.

 

1 hour ago, Little Scribe of Naath said:

Arya, ACOK, practicing her water dancing at night:

Quote

Whenever she had a free hour she stole away to work at the drills Syrio had taught her, moving barefoot over the fallen leaves, slashing at branches and whacking down leaves. Sometimes she even climbed the trees and danced among the upper branches, her toes gripping the limbs as she moved back and forth, teetering a little less every day as her balance returned to her. Night was the best time; no one ever bothered her at night.

The image of agile Arya scampering amongst the branches at night naturally brings to mind a cat, which is her other totem animal besides a wolf, and also nocturnal.  Fittingly, Arya 'sees' through the eyes of a cat during her 'blind-training' in Braavos at the same time as she's the 'Night Wolf.'  The first lesson given to her by her teacher Syrio was catching cats, which led her to the dungeons in the first place.  He wanted her to think like a cat, see like a cat, and his lesson about 'the true seeing'-- learning to see what is actually there, not what either you desire or someone else desires for you to see -- involved a cat...

1 hour ago, Little Scribe of Naath said:

"Come dark, there'll be wolves here, and worse."

Wolves were prowling through the dark like lean grey shadows.

Wolves and cats both prowl!

1 hour ago, Little Scribe of Naath said:
Quote

“The night before an acolyte says his vows, he must stand a vigil in the vault. No lantern is permitted him, no torch, no lamp, no taper . . . only a candle of obsidian. He must spend the night in darkness, unless he can light that candle. Some will try. The foolish and the stubborn, those who have made a study of these so-called higher mysteries. Often they cut their fingers, for the ridges on the candles are said to be as sharp as razors. Then, with bloody hands, they must wait upon the dawn, brooding on their failure. 

Could be another reference to the fact that those who have knowledge of the higher mysteries (magic) don't need to fear the darkness: they can light the obsidian candle.

Perfect reference to what we've been discussing.  Also, in light of the fact this ritual has been described in such detail, we can anticipate someone succeeding in lighting one of these candles (perhaps even someone who shouldn't really have access to them...)!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 8/22/2016 at 1:09 PM, aryagonnakill#2 said:

I personally think that was a prophetic Targ dream Jon was having, and that we will see this full interaction in the next book while Jon is stuck in Ghost.  As a result I don't think Bran was communicating through time.

Like Bloodraven, he is Targ and blood of hte first men. Ghost is his conduit, albino like bloodraven, standing in front of a weirwood tree.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

10 hours ago, Little Scribe of Naath said:

Yeah, this is similar to what I thought as well. BR probably knew some kind of sorcery, had moderate-level warging powers, could work glamours and stuff (think: similar to Arya in the books), but his "third eye" - basically his greenseeing powers - might have finally awakened in the darkness of the cells. My guess is he had his version of Bran's AGOT dream there, basically.

It's possible, but we can't say anything for sure until we get more detail on Dunk, Egg, BR and the rest :(. BR was a Targ, so it's possible that he could have seen the future in some way. However, I wonder how he managed to interpret any dreams he had correctly, if that was the case. What I wouldn't give for a Brynden Rivers POV! 

 

 

Yup in agreement on that. 

 

Also, On Bloodraven and my theory, I begun a shortened down version of my original theory on another thread if you care for a look, it touches on how Bloodraven could have had a prophetic dream and maybe interpreted it wrong but figured it out properly later possibly. If you get a spare minute give it a whirl LSoN.

It will leave you with the same conclusion that we need the Novellas to clarify but all the same, give it a bash if you like. 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

10 hours ago, Little Scribe of Naath said:

Side note: I'm from India, and the story of BR/Bran's "third eye" always reminds me of the Hindu deity Lord Shiva, termed as "the Destroyer". According to ancient mythology, he is an ascetic who resided in a cave in the snowy Himalayan mountain peaks, and one of his most distinguishing features is his third eye, which contains immense power. The opening of the "third eye" has both a light and dark association -   it represents spiritual awakening, wisdom, providing perception beyond the ordinary (as in ASOIAF), but it's also believed that if he opens his third eye when enraged, it will result in the end of the world (hence, the epithet, "the Destroyer"). There are stories where he has used it to provide light to the world when it was shrouded in darkness, and also stories where he has used it to burn his enemies to ashes.

The above was a long-winded way of saying - Bran's magical powers can be incredibly beneficial or horribly destructive, depending on how he chooses to wield it. The consequences of his powers (especially when we throw time manipulation into the mix) would be extremely far-reaching. Hence why I am worried about how the Children and BR are training Bran - I don't think they are getting this message across to him.

 

Always nice to find out where fellow posters are from, especially as far off and interesting places such as India. As you may have guessed I am from Scotland. 

Very interesting info there LSoN. The way it reminds us on Bran, third eyes and greenseer powers etc is actually quite striking. And it certainly shows that with this power, the level of power such that Bran is gathering, there most definitely the alarming worry that it will be become destructive to all he holds dear, and everything else if used recklessly.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@ravenous reader asked if you could elaborate on your view of the prophetic dream @aryagonnakill#2, I had been thinking on it to and thought I'd throw in a comment to elaborate if you guys don't mind?

Is the tree significant in the sense that Jon's prophetic dream sees Bran as what he will become one day? And it is shown as a sapling because well, Bran is a boy and is only just beginning to open his third eye, but the way the tree grows so rapidly, is this a reference to how his power has grown and accelerated so much because he was in the Crypts at the time?

Or something like that. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

×
×
  • Create New...