TheSeer27

ghost of high heart prophecy

42 posts in this topic

Now I get it, you think Oleanna has poisoned the cake and with adding the wine the poison starts to dissolve in the wine and starts choking the king.

Possible, but not very likely in my opinion. With Joffrey cutting the cake, every single eye would be on this cake and it would be difficult to add something unnoticed.
But with every eye on Joff and the cake - the wine will be unnoticed for a moment and this would be the perfect moment to drop the poison in. Just the same way as every illusionist in our word works - turn the audiences attraction to something different and in this very moment do your "miracle" unnoticed...
This will as well explain why Joff can take several swallows without anything happens before!

My money is still on the wine!

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6 hours ago, The Chequered Raven said:

Now I get it, you think Oleanna has poisoned the cake and with adding the wine the poison starts to dissolve in the wine and starts choking the king.

Possible, but not very likely in my opinion. With Joffrey cutting the cake, every single eye would be on this cake and it would be difficult to add something unnoticed.
But with every eye on Joff and the cake - the wine will be unnoticed for a moment and this would be the perfect moment to drop the poison in. Just the same way as every illusionist in our word works - turn the audiences attraction to something different and in this very moment do your "miracle" unnoticed...
This will as well explain why Joff can take several swallows without anything happens before!

My money is still on the wine!

You almost got it.

First, I think the strangler has no problem at least softening up in the heat and moisture of the pie given the extreme rapidity in which it dissolves in wine. Wine is upwards of 90 percent water, and this wine appears to have an extremely low alcohol content given that skinny, lightweight Joffrey is able to chug mouthful after mouthful without showing even the slightest signs of intoxication. The only reason I point out that Joffrey drinks wine just before he started choking is demonstrate that even if you do think wine is necessary to dissolve or activate the poison somehow, well there is the wine, right in Joffrey's throat.

Secondly, nobody is putting poison in the big pie down below because nobody is going to eat something that has live birds crawling around in it. That is just for show. Tyrion's slice of pie is already cut and plated and somewhere behind him when the cutting ceremony takes place. There is no other way it could have been served so quickly if, after the cutting, some servant then had to cut a piece off the big pie, plate it, and walk it all the way to Tyrion. The text unfolds in real-time here and the sequence is cut-pigeons-applause-music-and his pie is served, all within a matter of seconds.

At the same time, Lady O's last known position is somewhere very close to Tyrion but out of his line of vision because he does not know she is there until she speaks -- so she must be somewhere behind him as well. So now, out of sight of the main room, Lady O can easily reach this unobtrusive piece of pie all by herself and at worst she only has to make sure one pair of eyes (the servant's, if he/she is already holding the plate at this point) is looking up at the pigeons. As grandmother of the bride, she can also very easily arrange this whole event so she knows exactly which pie is going to Tyrion and only Tyrion.

Contrast this with the wine, which is sitting in a giant, golden chalice that is in plain view of upwards of 1000 people like a giant fishing lure. Sure, many of them will be looking at Joff and Margaery down below, but many will have a single line of vision right to the chalice. So even if the one-in-a-million chance that Garlan, who is the only conceivable poisoner given the position of the chalice on the table, is able to drop the crystal without being seen, this is an incredibly risk stunt considering that failure will result in the arrest, imprisonment and possible execution of virtually the entire Tyrell family. There is simply no way they can be even reasonable certainly that not one single person out of the thousand will happen to spot this sudden arm movement up to the top of the chalice. Try it yourself: have someone stand a yardstick straight up on your kitchen table and about an arm's length in toward either your left or right and see how easy this is. Now imagine that a thousand people are facing your direction, not to mention the two short people right next to you, and if you fail to get this right your head, and the heads of everyone you hold dear, will come rolling off its shoulders.

Thirdly, we have to take Margaery into account here. This is a time when toasts are common, as indeed, one came from Lord Buckler. So once they drop the poison, there is a very real chance that the first thing to happen is that a toast will come from the crowd. Tyrion, as cupbearer, would retrieve the chalice and hand it to Margaery. And even if, for some inexplicable reason, that they dispense with centuries of chivalric custom and Joffrey drinks first, then he would take his sip in a matter of seconds and then hand the chalice to Margaery. Even if Margaery is wise to the plot and knows the chalice is poisoned, what excuse can she possibly use to delay her acceptance of the toast for upwards of 30 seconds, only to then have the king suddenly drop dead?

Sorry for the lengthy explanation, but this is only one of the many, many, many discrepancies that exist with the wine -- from the initial conversations at Bitterbridge and Highgarden through the actual wedding and beyond. Literally nothing fits with the wine and literally everything fits with the pie, to the nth degree.

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