mines of castamere

[house of dayne]

so..if tywinn and house lannister completely flooded and burned the castles of the reynes and tarbecs killing all, as the legend goes, what became of the gold mines of the vanquished? the mines of castamere were rich in silver gold and gems and yet, tywinn is content to simply leave the destroyed surface castle as a symbol of his power while leaving the mine itself, sealed and flooded...given the fact that even the gold of casterly rock is finite and the mines of castamere represent a massive source of wealth and power, does anyone else think that tywinn was incredibly stupid to not make a better claim on those mines...i get extinguishing the reynes and tarbecs to make examples of them...i understand his need to regain the fear and respect of his vassals..but we are talking about a gold mine that was already producing wealth simply abandoned..has no one else, no brigand, outlaw, or hedge knight not made any attempt recover any of the massive reserves of gold still trapped there? the rains of castamere is a song that celebrates tywinns ruthlessness and vicious cunning but it also seems to show his poor judgement...

[Lord Vance II]

Surely the mines made into castles weren't the only mines the Reynes and Tarbecks had. I think the Rock is a special case, the rest of the Westerland's gold is more spread out like in real life. Tywin probably seized control of their other mines and left the main ones as a warning. Plus through the millennia the castle-mines were probably close to tapped out. 

Plus, I have no idea how they would drain the tunnels. They can't have much more than rudimentary pumps, and apparently he filled it to the brim. 

[house of dayne]

 

21 minutes ago, Lord Vance II said:

Surely the mines made into castles weren't the only mines the Reynes and Tarbecks had. I think the Rock is a special case, the rest of the Westerland's gold is more spread out like in real life. Tywin probably seized control of their other mines and left the main ones as a warning. Plus through the millennia the castle-mines were probably close to tapped out. 

Plus, I have no idea how they would drain the tunnels. They can't have much more than rudimentary pumps, and apparently he filled it to the brim. 

there is no mention of other mines that i know of, only the fortified one protected by the castle of castamere..if there are other mines, they must pale in comparison or else they too would have been fortified..draining the tunnels is an issue, i agree..we know they were flooded quickly by diverting a river into the entrance and the people all drowned in a matter of days..however, if the river was reset on its natural course, surely the land would begin to absorb the finite water back into the watertable...it might take years or decades but considering the wealth, seems like it would be worth it..

[theblackdragonI]

I imagine there were other mines that were taken by Tywin but its hard to be sure. On one hand Tywin is a pragmatist who would be foolish to squander such wealth. But on the other hand, destroying such wealth on purpose fits with Tywin's personality and drive at the time to show all the other houses that House Lannister was richer and above them all doesn't it?

The Lordship of Castamere was just given to a Spicer for their role in the Red Wedding. Surely this isn't just an empty title? There must be some sort of resources there 

[house of dayne]

18 minutes ago, theblackdragonI said:

I imagine there were other mines that were taken by Tywin but its hard to be sure. On one hand Tywin is a pragmatist who would be foolish to squander such wealth. But on the other hand, destroying such wealth on purpose fits with Tywin's personality and drive at the time to show all the other houses that House Lannister was richer and above them all doesn't it?

The Lordship of Castamere was just given to a Spicer for their role in the Red Wedding. Surely this isn't just an empty title? There must be some sort of resources there 

interesting..i cant help but feel that the story of castamere and its castle is not yet concluded..it seems like there is a lot of foreshadowing that perhaps the story arc of one or all the three lannister POVs will go through castamere..the haunted mine would be cool tip o the hat to tolkien and moria ..so far we have seen little of the westerlands, a land often defined by its vast subterranean vaults like castamere..could play a role in a return of a long night..that there is even a lordship of castamere encourages me to believe that GRRM does intend to revisit the story in the future to conclude it more completely..

[1000th Lord Commander]

I would imagine that here are other mines, and even a decent bit of land attached to the lordship of Castamere. Plus nothing was said about Tywin killing the smallfolk, only the noble house and all its retainers. So thinking logically, Tywin simply would have left eveything else in place, just getting them to send all the profits to Casterly Rock. It wouldn't have surprised me to learn that a Lannister cousin has been acting as castellan for the lands of Castamere and Tarbeck for the last twenty or thirty years.

[GallowsKnight]

Can I once again say how dumb the Reynes were in designing their castle? Sure daming a river is pretty ingenious but what if a besieging lord simply managed to take the upper levels and decided to wall up every possible entrance to the underground bit? Wait months or years until they starve in the dark and then dig it open to loot the castle.

[devilish]

3 hours ago, GallowsKnight said:

Can I once again say how dumb the Reynes were in designing their castle? Sure daming a river is pretty ingenious but what if a besieging lord simply managed to take the upper levels and decided to wall up every possible entrance to the underground bit? Wait months or years until they starve in the dark and then dig it open to loot the castle.

I think that Tywin wanted to avoid having the Reynes paying their way out of this trouble. Tywin was reporting to Aerys after all and if the latter told him to stop then he would have to stop. 

Having said that I cant understand why he hasn't drained the whole thing and took those lands himself. Tywin could convince Joffrey to let Jamie leave the KG and become his heir while Tyrion will get the Reynes lands for his effort in saving KL assuming he puts a child inside Sansa. 

Those land would appease Tyrion, it would serve in keeping him busy and away from KL and the mines will serve financing Tyrion/Sansa's son expedition to reconquer the North.

[GallowsKnight]

48 minutes ago, devilish said:

I think that Tywin wanted to avoid having the Reynes paying their way out of this trouble. Tywin was reporting to Aerys after all and if the latter told him to stop then he would have to stop. 

Oh get why Tywin did it the way he did. He needed them dead quickly and in a flashy show everyone how brutal I am sort of way.

I'm just saying any other time it doesn't need that much engineering, just some brickwork to seal them in.

[devilish]

13 minutes ago, GallowsKnight said:

Oh get why Tywin did it the way he did. He needed them dead quickly and in a flashy show everyone how brutal I am sort of way.

I'm just saying any other time it doesn't need that much engineering, just some brickwork to seal them in.

All I am saying is that there was a strategic reason why he wanted the Reynes killed quickly.

The brutality was uncalled for. There again, unnecessary and often counterproductive brutality is within the Lannister nature (raping of Tyrion wife, the Reynes, sending Gregor to deal with Elia and her kids etc)

[MinotaurWarrior]

Yeah, Tywin isn't really a financial pragmatist. He's brutal. What he cared about was respect, not cashflow. 

Honestly, this gets to a broader point that the whole business wasn't financially responsible. We see from Tywin's actions after Robert's rebellion that he didn't actually have any better use for House Lannister's capital than to lend it out. But it seems that from about 261-284 Tywin had 3M dragons floating around, seemingly stuffed under the proverbial mattress. And House Lannister went from having a diversified portfolio across a number of Westerlander houses to an undiversified portfolio with 3M invested in at best a shaky regime and at worst a ponzi scheme. Along the way he forces two houses into default, shuts down at least some profitable mines, and damages the infrastructure of his realm. There's also a missed opportunity in making his brothers into lords there at the end.

However, Tywin judged it worth the cost, and we know he's an intelligent guy who makes a point of knowing what's really going on in terms of politics and plotting. By no means did the revolt beggar his realm, and if he thinks the effects on prestige and obedience were worth the cost, then 'eh.

[aryagonnakill#2]

It is specifically mentioned that the mines had gone dry.  That is why they needed loans from Tytos.

[MinotaurWarrior]

2 hours ago, aryagonnakill#2 said:

It is specifically mentioned that the mines had gone dry.  That is why they needed loans from Tytos.

No, your thinking of the Westerlings' mines. They (well, their relatives) are specifically rewarded with Castamere to replace the depleted mines with "new" functional mines. 

[John Doe]

8 hours ago, devilish said:

All I am saying is that there was a strategic reason why he wanted the Reynes killed quickly.

The brutality was uncalled for. There again, unnecessary and often counterproductive brutality is within the Lannister nature (raping of Tyrion wife, the Reynes, sending Gregor to deal with Elia and her kids etc)

How was it uncalled for? He took the castle in the least brutal way possible. Storming it would have caused a lot more casualties. 

[Masha]

I don't remember word for word from TWOIAF book passage, but didn't it say that the mines where sort of mined out already and Reynes were refurbishing it to use as a hide-out by that time? If so, these mines wouldn't be of any use to Tywin

[Humble Maester]

TWOIAF:

Quote

Rich veins of gold and silver had made the Reynes near as wealthy as the Lannisters during the Age of Heroes; to defend their riches, they had raised curtain walls about the entrance to their mine, closed it with an oak-and-iron gate, and flanked it with a pair of stout towers. Keeps and halls had followed, but all the while the mineshafts had gone deeper and deeper, and when at last the gold gave out, they had been widened into halls and galleries and snug bedchambers, a warren of tunnels and a vast, echoing ballroom.

Though if you wish to be contrarian, as many do, you could argue that this section doesn't specifically point out that both silver and gold veins ran out. But I am fairly certain the point is "metals ran out, shafts were turned into halls".

In any case I believe that the excerpt above is indication of Castamere being devoid of precious metals.

[TheSovereignGrave]

1 hour ago, Humble Maester said:

TWOIAF:

Though if you wish to be contrarian, as many do, you could argue that this section doesn't specifically point out that both silver and gold veins ran out. But I am fairly certain the point is "metals ran out, shafts were turned into halls".

In any case I believe that the excerpt above is indication of Castamere being devoid of precious metals.

I read that as meaning that as they dug up all the ore out of specific sections of tunnel those were converted into halls of the castle, not that all the ore was completely gone from all of Castamere.

[Raisin' Bran]

2 hours ago, Humble Maester said:

TWOIAF:

Though if you wish to be contrarian, as many do, you could argue that this section doesn't specifically point out that both silver and gold veins ran out. But I am fairly certain the point is "metals ran out, shafts were turned into halls".

In any case I believe that the excerpt above is indication of Castamere being devoid of precious metals.

I can understand how you think that means there was no gold left. But I was dong a little searching and found that during Robb's campaign in the Westerlands, it is mentioned that the Greatjon captured the gold mines at Castamere.

I was wondering why he would do that if they were, in fact, depleted.

[MinotaurWarrior]

19 minutes ago, Raisin(g) Bran 2 Greenseer said:

I can understand how you think that means there was no gold left. But I was dong a little searching and found that during Robb's campaign in the Westerlands, it is mentioned that the Greatjon captured the gold mines at Castamere.

I was wondering why he would do that if they were, in fact, depleted.

He could have been misguided.

I think the evidence in the main series points towards there having been gold in the mines, but the world book does seem to point the other way. Really seems like a toss up.