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Why Was Jaqen H'ghar in Westeros?


A_Man_Is_No_One

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17 hours ago, A_Man_Is_No_One said:

Does it ever mention why Jaqen H'ghar was in King's Landing or Westeros in general? Is it possible he was in Westeros to kill someone and actually got caught? Or was it his plan to get caught? If so, why? And if he wasn't in Westeros to kill someone then why was he there?

Great question.

To my knowledge, we do not have the answer.

Tough to even really speculate or guess with any degree of certainty, either.  We are lacking large amounts of information about the Faceless Men and their powers, plans and goals.

Planetos  has magic and prophecy, I've wondered about a number of possible answers to your question, including even the possibility that Jaqen was in Westeros specfiically to recruit Arya.

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10 hours ago, Cron said:

I've wondered about a number of possible answers to your question, including even the possibility that Jaqen was in Westeros specfiically to recruit Arya.

This is an idea I had, but again we don't know enough about them to even say. I hope in the books at least we learn a lot more about them because I doubt we will in the show.

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3 hours ago, A_Man_Is_No_One said:

This is an idea I had, but again we don't know enough about them to even say. I hope in the books at least we learn a lot more about them because I doubt we will in the show.

I realize I'm just speculating, but I'm really leaning towards a belief that Jaqen was in Westeros b/c of Arya, or AT LEAST that when he met her he recognized something in her, and either dropped what he was doing it or finished what he was doing and continued to hang around b/c of Arya..

He's too smooth and skilled to just get caught like a common criminal, and even if he did, I think he would have already devised a way to escape even before Arya let him and the other two out of that cage-wagon.

Here, think about this:  WHY was jaqen H'ghar hanging around Harrenhal?????

CLEARLY, he could have left any time he wanted to, there's simply no question about it.  Once Arya convinced him to help her, Gendry and Hot Pie escape, BAM, they were all gone within a matter of hours, including Jaqen himself, and THEN he met up with Arya AGAIN after they all had left Harrenhal.

So, we've got jaqen H'ghar, a very powerful Faceless Man, who holds a high position, I think, in the House of Black and White back in Braavos, and who can CLEARLY escape and leave Harrenhal at any time he wants...but he doesn't.  Instead, he hangs around, working as some common grunt/soldier in the service of people who are FAR less personally powerful than him.

Why?  Why??

Really, the only thing that makes sense to me is that he was there b/c of Arya, almost certainly from the time he met her, and quite possibly all along.

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On 8/24/2016 at 11:32 PM, Cron said:

I realize I'm just speculating, but I'm really leaning towards a belief that Jaqen was in Westeros b/c of Arya, or AT LEAST that when he met her he recognized something in her, and either dropped what he was doing it or finished what he was doing and continued to hang around b/c of Arya..

He's too smooth and skilled to just get caught like a common criminal, and even if he did, I think he would have already devised a way to escape even before Arya let him and the other two out of that cage-wagon.

Here, think about this:  WHY was jaqen H'ghar hanging around Harrenhal?????

CLEARLY, he could have left any time he wanted to, there's simply no question about it.  Once Arya convinced him to help her, Gendry and Hot Pie escape, BAM, they were all gone within a matter of hours, including Jaqen himself, and THEN he met up with Arya AGAIN after they all had left Harrenhal.

So, we've got jaqen H'ghar, a very powerful Faceless Man, who holds a high position, I think, in the House of Black and White back in Braavos, and who can CLEARLY escape and leave Harrenhal at any time he wants...but he doesn't.  Instead, he hangs around, working as some common grunt/soldier in the service of people who are FAR less personally powerful than him.

Why?  Why??

Really, the only thing that makes sense to me is that he was there b/c of Arya, almost certainly from the time he met her, and quite possibly all along.

Wasn't trying to sound like I was debunking your theory or anything lol I was just saying on a side note we don't know enough about them to say anything is concrete, but I think your theory is definitely likely. It makes sense thinking back on everything. 

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37 minutes ago, A_Man_Is_No_One said:

Wasn't trying to sound like I was debunking your theory or anything lol I was just saying on a side note we don't know enough about them to say anything is concrete, but I think your theory is definitely likely. It makes sense thinking back on everything. 

Oh, I didn't think you were debunking or anything, to me we were both just making conversation and bouncing ideas around.

It's cool.

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Yeah, who knows?  It's all just speculation at this point but, for now, I theorize that Jaqen is seeking the forbidden writings of Septon Barth that Baelor the Blessed tried to have completely wiped from the world.  I think this is about gaining good intelligence for the Faceless Men about dragons.  I think he wanted to infiltrate the NW to get at their extremely remote library because it would be a good place for even Baelor's influence to have failed to reach and, of course, it was presided over for several decades by a Targaryen.  When that plan failed, I believe he went with Plan B: the Citadel.  That's why we see him steal Pate's key in Old Town.  Maybe the Citadel still has some of Barth's forbidden dragon writings under lock and key?:dunno: 

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On 8/24/2016 at 1:56 PM, Cron said:

Planetos  has magic and prophecy, I've wondered about a number of possible answers to your question, including even the possibility that Jaqen was in Westeros specfiically to recruit Arya.

There is a wonderful book theory put forward by @sweetsunray that Arya could be a sort of Valkyrie - a chooser of the slain - which suggests this very idea.

It purports that there may be a secret prophecy amongst the order of the FM that the First member of the order will be reborn and that Arya may well fit the prophecy of the First Reborn.

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7 hours ago, Dolorous Gabe said:

There is a wonderful book theory put forward by @sweetsunray that Arya could be a sort of Valkyrie - a chooser of the slain - which suggests this very idea.

It purports that there may be a secret prophecy amongst the order of the FM that the First member of the order will be reborn and that Arya may well fit the prophecy of the First Reborn.

Very interesting, I've not heard about that before.

Gonna have to look into that.

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Because the writer wanted him to. 

Really there's no answer to these questions. The story is overly complex enough, there's no 9/10 of an iceberg size of story behind why Jaqen was in Westeros. He was there so the story would work.

Why was Gandalf in Fangorn when Treebeard found Merry and Pippin? So the sorry would work. Or he might have been on a morning hike because that's what Elrond prescribed for that joint problem in his left leg after the Balrog fight. 

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18 hours ago, RhaeBee said:

Because the writer wanted him to. 

Really there's no answer to these questions. The story is overly complex enough, there's no 9/10 of an iceberg size of story behind why Jaqen was in Westeros. He was there so the story would work.

Why was Gandalf in Fangorn when Treebeard found Merry and Pippin? So the sorry would work. Or he might have been on a morning hike because that's what Elrond prescribed for that joint problem in his left leg after the Balrog fight. 

So true, writing deep plots tends to reach deep depths...

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On 23.08.2016 at 10:54 PM, A_Man_Is_No_One said:

Does it ever mention why Jaqen H'ghar was in King's Landing or Westeros in general? Is it possible he was in Westeros to kill someone and actually got caught? Or was it his plan to get caught? If so, why? And if he wasn't in Westeros to kill someone then why was he there?

In the small council when Ned Stark was the hand they mentioned about killing Danerys before she became a big threat. Some suggested the FM but its refused cause of budget. So its possible that they summoned Jaqen before its proposed. And when Ned Stark opposed that deal was off. Or they already agreed Jaqen ( we know Littlefinger finds money anyhow ) and that poisoned wine thing was his doing. And after King Robert died he might gave up. (cause deal made with the throne). I cant remember the chronology about roberts death and poisoned wine. Also Jaqen delayed a bit with Arya. So im not sure. Bit of little research i could reply better sorry.

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On 8/25/2016 at 4:32 AM, Cron said:

I realize I'm just speculating, but I'm really leaning towards a belief that Jaqen was in Westeros b/c of Arya, or AT LEAST that when he met her he recognized something in her, and either dropped what he was doing it or finished what he was doing and continued to hang around b/c of Arya..

He's too smooth and skilled to just get caught like a common criminal, and even if he did, I think he would have already devised a way to escape even before Arya let him and the other two out of that cage-wagon.

Here, think about this:  WHY was jaqen H'ghar hanging around Harrenhal?????

CLEARLY, he could have left any time he wanted to, there's simply no question about it.  Once Arya convinced him to help her, Gendry and Hot Pie escape, BAM, they were all gone within a matter of hours, including Jaqen himself, and THEN he met up with Arya AGAIN after they all had left Harrenhal.

So, we've got jaqen H'ghar, a very powerful Faceless Man, who holds a high position, I think, in the House of Black and White back in Braavos, and who can CLEARLY escape and leave Harrenhal at any time he wants...but he doesn't.  Instead, he hangs around, working as some common grunt/soldier in the service of people who are FAR less personally powerful than him.

Why?  Why??

Really, the only thing that makes sense to me is that he was there b/c of Arya, almost certainly from the time he met her, and quite possibly all along.

Veyr interesting.

Have you read the Interview Tom Wlaschila (Jaqen) did with the Hollowyood Reporter after the episode of Arya leaves the FM?

How would you describe Jaqen's journey, not just this season, but throughout the series?

Well, it's safe to say that the Faceless Men certainly have an interest in what's going on in Westeros. Jaqen just appears from nowhere in season two and picks Arya to train her. Now, by the end of season six, she's pretty much finished her training and going back to Westeros. Unless all of that was really selfless on his part, I think the Faceless Men want to have some sort of influence on what's happening in Westeros, and Arya being their weapon.

Interesting. When Arya leaves Jaqen, one wonders if he's disappointed in her choice — but there's almost a look of pride on his face as she walks away. Is that how you played it?

Yeah. I think Jaqen had a weak moment there. (Laughs.) I think, and it's my interpretation here, that he enjoyed seeing Arya succeed. The whole Waif thing, whatever it may have been, may have just been the ultimate test. He never told her that her training was going to be easy. I think he's been constantly testing her to make sure she gets stronger and make sure she gets to be the best contender in Westeros that she can be.

Is there anything to the irony that Crane is playing Cersei Lannister on stage — one of the final names remaining on Arya's list? Do you see that at all as testing the limits between being Arya and being "no one," someone who is supposed to abandon personal grudges?

I'm not really sure. Jaqen had always said he wanted Arya to become "no one," but I think that was in order to give her the best possible training. I'm not sure he ever expected her to fully become "no one." If she had, then she would just become a Faceless Man in Braavos. I think the ultimate goal has always been for her to go back to Westeros and play some sort of important role in the final battle. I think this whole thing of becoming "no one," it's to give her the best training possible. I don't think he ever expected her to become "no one." That's why there's this smirk in the end, when she tells him that she's still Arya Stark, because I think he's pleased in a way. She's gone through with all the hard training, and now she's ready to go back.

Before she tells him that she's still Arya Stark, Jaqen makes the comment: "A girl is finally no one." Does that mean something less obvious, then? Not "no one" in the anonymous killer sense, but "no one" in terms of her training level?

Yeah, maybe it's that she's "no one" — she's reached a level where she can easily take on other personalities and work on her list. That's what she set out to do, and the list is there. She can only work on that list in Westeros. It's clear that at some point she would go back.

In the final scene of "No One," Jaqen discovers the Waif's severed face, bloodily posted in the Hall of Faces. Seconds later, Arya stands with Needle pointed directly at Jaqen's chest. Do you think there's a moment where Jaqen thinks this might be the end — his moment to meet the Many-Faced God?

Well, for Jaqen, or for me as Jaqen? (Laughs.) The good thing about Jaqen is that he's a Faceless Man, and he could be behind anyone's face. If it's going to be my face again, that remains to be seen, but it's one of the great things about the Faceless Men. In a way, they're immortal, or they're exchangeable if you like. I lent my face to Jaqen, but the person behind his face could easily pick a different one, and so on. That's why this whole philosophy about being "no one," I think it comes from the Faceless Men not being afraid of death. Death is their trade. It's what they do. They administer death to people who are really sick, or people who want to die. The whole killing job is just a side job. The main thing of their sect is to administer the ultimate gift to people who seek it. 

More often than not, tragedy follows the Game of Thrones characters. The moments of sunshine are few and far between. That said, do you think it's a positive development for Arya to have learned what she learned in Braavos, and now to return with that knowledge to Westeros? 

I definitely think so. When she arrived in Braavos, she was just a girl. She sought revenge, but she didn't really know how to go about it. She's a grown-up now. She has a strategy. In a way, she'll be more careful and more aware of the things that will happen to her. I don't want to say she's going to be scheming, but she knows how to handle tricky situations better.

 

http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/live-feed/game-thrones-tom-wlaschiha-interview-903976

 

There are also rumors of Jaqen returning in S7.

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7 hours ago, DutchArya said:

Veyr interesting.

Have you read the Interview Tom Wlaschila (Jaqen) did with the Hollowyood Reporter after the episode of Arya leaves the FM?

How would you describe Jaqen's journey, not just this season, but throughout the series?

Well, it's safe to say that the Faceless Men certainly have an interest in what's going on in Westeros. Jaqen just appears from nowhere in season two and picks Arya to train her. Now, by the end of season six, she's pretty much finished her training and going back to Westeros. Unless all of that was really selfless on his part, I think the Faceless Men want to have some sort of influence on what's happening in Westeros, and Arya being their weapon.

Interesting. When Arya leaves Jaqen, one wonders if he's disappointed in her choice — but there's almost a look of pride on his face as she walks away. Is that how you played it?

Yeah. I think Jaqen had a weak moment there. (Laughs.) I think, and it's my interpretation here, that he enjoyed seeing Arya succeed. The whole Waif thing, whatever it may have been, may have just been the ultimate test. He never told her that her training was going to be easy. I think he's been constantly testing her to make sure she gets stronger and make sure she gets to be the best contender in Westeros that she can be.

Is there anything to the irony that Crane is playing Cersei Lannister on stage — one of the final names remaining on Arya's list? Do you see that at all as testing the limits between being Arya and being "no one," someone who is supposed to abandon personal grudges?

I'm not really sure. Jaqen had always said he wanted Arya to become "no one," but I think that was in order to give her the best possible training. I'm not sure he ever expected her to fully become "no one." If she had, then she would just become a Faceless Man in Braavos. I think the ultimate goal has always been for her to go back to Westeros and play some sort of important role in the final battle. I think this whole thing of becoming "no one," it's to give her the best training possible. I don't think he ever expected her to become "no one." That's why there's this smirk in the end, when she tells him that she's still Arya Stark, because I think he's pleased in a way. She's gone through with all the hard training, and now she's ready to go back.

Before she tells him that she's still Arya Stark, Jaqen makes the comment: "A girl is finally no one." Does that mean something less obvious, then? Not "no one" in the anonymous killer sense, but "no one" in terms of her training level?

Yeah, maybe it's that she's "no one" — she's reached a level where she can easily take on other personalities and work on her list. That's what she set out to do, and the list is there. She can only work on that list in Westeros. It's clear that at some point she would go back.

In the final scene of "No One," Jaqen discovers the Waif's severed face, bloodily posted in the Hall of Faces. Seconds later, Arya stands with Needle pointed directly at Jaqen's chest. Do you think there's a moment where Jaqen thinks this might be the end — his moment to meet the Many-Faced God?

Well, for Jaqen, or for me as Jaqen? (Laughs.) The good thing about Jaqen is that he's a Faceless Man, and he could be behind anyone's face. If it's going to be my face again, that remains to be seen, but it's one of the great things about the Faceless Men. In a way, they're immortal, or they're exchangeable if you like. I lent my face to Jaqen, but the person behind his face could easily pick a different one, and so on. That's why this whole philosophy about being "no one," I think it comes from the Faceless Men not being afraid of death. Death is their trade. It's what they do. They administer death to people who are really sick, or people who want to die. The whole killing job is just a side job. The main thing of their sect is to administer the ultimate gift to people who seek it. 

More often than not, tragedy follows the Game of Thrones characters. The moments of sunshine are few and far between. That said, do you think it's a positive development for Arya to have learned what she learned in Braavos, and now to return with that knowledge to Westeros? 

I definitely think so. When she arrived in Braavos, she was just a girl. She sought revenge, but she didn't really know how to go about it. She's a grown-up now. She has a strategy. In a way, she'll be more careful and more aware of the things that will happen to her. I don't want to say she's going to be scheming, but she knows how to handle tricky situations better.

 

http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/live-feed/game-thrones-tom-wlaschiha-interview-903976

 

There are also rumors of Jaqen returning in S7.

Wow, great stuff, I read it all with enormous interest, Thanks a lot!

Tom had some great comments and insight, I get the feeling he's given this some serious thought.

Now for some more big questions:  Was he Syrio Forel????  And will we see Syrio again?

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  • 3 weeks later...
On 26/08/2016 at 4:29 PM, Prince of the North said:

Yeah, who knows?  It's all just speculation at this point but, for now, I theorize that Jaqen is seeking the forbidden writings of Septon Barth that Baelor the Blessed tried to have completely wiped from the world.  I think this is about gaining good intelligence for the Faceless Men about dragons.  I think he wanted to infiltrate the NW to get at their extremely remote library because it would be a good place for even Baelor's influence to have failed to reach and, of course, it was presided over for several decades by a Targaryen.  When that plan failed, I believe he went with Plan B: the Citadel.  That's why we see him steal Pate's key in Old Town.  Maybe the Citadel still has some of Barth's forbidden dragon writings under lock and key?:dunno: 

In the books this definitely :agree:

Not sure if the show will haven fm at the citadel..I hope they do!

On 01/09/2016 at 4:34 AM, DutchArya said:

Veyr interesting.

Have you read the Interview Tom Wlaschila (Jaqen) did with the Hollowyood Reporter after the episode of Arya leaves the FM?

How would you describe Jaqen's journey, not just this season, but throughout the series?

Well, it's safe to say that the Faceless Men certainly have an interest in what's going on in Westeros. Jaqen just appears from nowhere in season two and picks Arya to train her. Now, by the end of season six, she's pretty much finished her training and going back to Westeros. Unless all of that was really selfless on his part, I think the Faceless Men want to have some sort of influence on what's happening in Westeros, and Arya being their weapon.

Interesting. When Arya leaves Jaqen, one wonders if he's disappointed in her choice — but there's almost a look of pride on his face as she walks away. Is that how you played it?

Yeah. I think Jaqen had a weak moment there. (Laughs.) I think, and it's my interpretation here, that he enjoyed seeing Arya succeed. The whole Waif thing, whatever it may have been, may have just been the ultimate test. He never told her that her training was going to be easy. I think he's been constantly testing her to make sure she gets stronger and make sure she gets to be the best contender in Westeros that she can be.

Is there anything to the irony that Crane is playing Cersei Lannister on stage — one of the final names remaining on Arya's list? Do you see that at all as testing the limits between being Arya and being "no one," someone who is supposed to abandon personal grudges?

I'm not really sure. Jaqen had always said he wanted Arya to become "no one," but I think that was in order to give her the best possible training. I'm not sure he ever expected her to fully become "no one." If she had, then she would just become a Faceless Man in Braavos. I think the ultimate goal has always been for her to go back to Westeros and play some sort of important role in the final battle. I think this whole thing of becoming "no one," it's to give her the best training possible. I don't think he ever expected her to become "no one." That's why there's this smirk in the end, when she tells him that she's still Arya Stark, because I think he's pleased in a way. She's gone through with all the hard training, and now she's ready to go back.

Before she tells him that she's still Arya Stark, Jaqen makes the comment: "A girl is finally no one." Does that mean something less obvious, then? Not "no one" in the anonymous killer sense, but "no one" in terms of her training level?

Yeah, maybe it's that she's "no one" — she's reached a level where she can easily take on other personalities and work on her list. That's what she set out to do, and the list is there. She can only work on that list in Westeros. It's clear that at some point she would go back.

In the final scene of "No One," Jaqen discovers the Waif's severed face, bloodily posted in the Hall of Faces. Seconds later, Arya stands with Needle pointed directly at Jaqen's chest. Do you think there's a moment where Jaqen thinks this might be the end — his moment to meet the Many-Faced God?

Well, for Jaqen, or for me as Jaqen? (Laughs.) The good thing about Jaqen is that he's a Faceless Man, and he could be behind anyone's face. If it's going to be my face again, that remains to be seen, but it's one of the great things about the Faceless Men. In a way, they're immortal, or they're exchangeable if you like. I lent my face to Jaqen, but the person behind his face could easily pick a different one, and so on. That's why this whole philosophy about being "no one," I think it comes from the Faceless Men not being afraid of death. Death is their trade. It's what they do. They administer death to people who are really sick, or people who want to die. The whole killing job is just a side job. The main thing of their sect is to administer the ultimate gift to people who seek it. 

More often than not, tragedy follows the Game of Thrones characters. The moments of sunshine are few and far between. That said, do you think it's a positive development for Arya to have learned what she learned in Braavos, and now to return with that knowledge to Westeros? 

I definitely think so. When she arrived in Braavos, she was just a girl. She sought revenge, but she didn't really know how to go about it. She's a grown-up now. She has a strategy. In a way, she'll be more careful and more aware of the things that will happen to her. I don't want to say she's going to be scheming, but she knows how to handle tricky situations better.

 

http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/live-feed/game-thrones-tom-wlaschiha-interview-903976

 

There are also rumors of Jaqen returning in S7.

Thanks this was a great read!

On 01/09/2016 at 0:31 PM, Cron said:

Wow, great stuff, I read it all with enormous interest, Thanks a lot!

Tom had some great comments and insight, I get the feeling he's given this some serious thought.

Now for some more big questions:  Was he Syrio Forel????  And will we see Syrio again?

In the books I like to think syrio is jacqen, there are some great theories around on this!

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On the show there is no background to him being a prisoner. He's just there to mirror the book and to have an interesting character. I mean you'd think if he'd been in KL to try to kill someone then he'd be pretty well known about ( assuming he failed and got caught) and probably have been killed rather than locked up. 

But it's likely he was caught intentionally to get somewhere. I can't see him being so careless as to be caught by accident or through failure. 

The show just needed a cool assassin dude to meet Arya and didn't worry about back story at all. The book didn't have a back story either but the continuing plot after all that adds some interesting pointers. He was heading north to castle black and clearly could have escaped but didn't. So was that his final target, and was it an assassination or other mission. I try to think about who was up there worth killing and who would possibly hire a FM to do it. The only thing I can come up with is that he was to kill Rob Stark who'd been left in charge of the north, or to finish off Bran after the failed assassination. But we kinda know the Bran thing was Joffrey being a jealous little shit and trying to impress daddy so I'd count that out, I mean he couldn't even k ow where to contact the FM or pay for them. Killing Rob would be interesting though, I mean certain parties definitely wanted to destabilise the north (Littlefinger, Tywin) to take advantage of the chaos. Killing Rob would be ideal to mess things up. He died eventually but what if he was meant to die earlier?

 

i do like the idea of him gathering Intel though. That seems to fit with him later cropping up in Oldtown. But after he escapes Harrenhall why didn't he carry on north to continue with his mission seeing as he was now free to do so? It's almost like he gave up on that idea and went west instead fit no reason, they were already up near the borders of the north anyway. 

The goings on in Oldtown definitely have a purpose, all his other travels seem a bit pointless. 

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