Jump to content

What is Kinvara's Purpose?


A_Man_Is_No_One

Recommended Posts

On 24.08.2016 at 2:37 PM, Future Null Infinity said:

Kinvara's purpose in the story is to confuse the viewers by adding another AAR candidate to the landscape and creating a cliffhanger on who will be : Jon or Daenerys (same strategy of the "younger more beautiful queen")

yeah they need to bring the show-onlies to the same level of confusion regarding AAR the asoiaf readers have been on for a long time.

Her other purpose, spread the word about Daenerys' snowflakeness like the Red Priests in the books do.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Darksky said:

Her other purpose, spread the word about Daenerys' snowflakeness like the Red Priests in the books do.

Yes, that's true, it's always a win-win situation for the red priestesses.

Also, the most important : to show us that R'hllor have the best girls, if the red god was real in our world then I will convert to it in a Planck time instant

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 2 weeks later...

What got me about the whole Kinvara episode was the ominous undertone.  Her remark that Dany's Dragons would be useful in burning unbelievers and her essentially threatening Varys do not bode well for the future.  The LoL people are convinced that Dany is their savior and I'm not even sure that Dany has heard that theory yet.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 hours ago, Byfort of Corfe said:

What got me about the whole Kinvara episode was the ominous undertone.  Her remark that Dany's Dragons would be useful in burning unbelievers and her essentially threatening Varys do not bode well for the future.  The LoL people are convinced that Dany is their savior and I'm not even sure that Dany has heard that theory yet.

What I think is up in the age though is how this is exploited, is it going to be the wider LOL religion and Kinvara herself or was she just acting as a setup for Mel? I'm inclined to think more of the latter at this stage in the story as large numbers of Red Preists becoming involved in Westeros seems like too much of a diversion with only 13-14 episodes potentially left. Again I suspect that Kinvara was planting the seeds for Varys and perhaps others to have a negative view of Mel by being a stand in for the earlier version of her who had total faith in the rightness of her cause and was all for burning unbelievers. The when/if Mel turns up in the south the audience have been reminded of Varys dislike and in general why it might be a questionable idea for Dany to be too closely involved with her.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

35 minutes ago, MoreOrLess said:

What I think is up in the age though is how this is exploited, is it going to be the wider LOL religion and Kinvara herself or was she just acting as a setup for Mel? I'm inclined to think more of the latter at this stage in the story as large numbers of Red Preists becoming involved in Westeros seems like too much of a diversion with only 13-14 episodes potentially left. Again I suspect that Kinvara was planting the seeds for Varys and perhaps others to have a negative view of Mel by being a stand in for the earlier version of her who had total faith in the rightness of her cause and was all for burning unbelievers. The when/if Mel turns up in the south the audience have been reminded of Varys dislike and in general why it might be a questionable idea for Dany to be too closely involved with her.

I can see that now that we are in the stretch run it's a little too late to have tons of Red Priests attempting a mass conversion although let's not forget that Cersei has just gutted the leadership of the Seven.  I also think that we may see friction between Dany and the Lord of Light adherents.  Stannis went along with the burnings, they'll expect Dany to as well.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On ‎30‎/‎08‎/‎2016 at 1:15 PM, RhaeBee said:

You know, for some time I'd been pretty hopeful and optimistic about the show, but for the past season and a half every time I sat down to watch an episode with great hopes and excitement, I stood up pretty disappointed, so I've become kinda pessimistic and don't really nurse any expectations for the story...

And to be honest, keeping Kinvara in fold would make as little as sense as abandoning her and her 2 minutes of screentime. I mean I get what you are saying and Jorah and his greyscale might even be worth keeping Kinvara around... At the same time, Daenerys left, Arya left WHY on god's earth would we STILL hang around in Essos? Don't we have enough plotlines to resolve in Westeros? And I think the reason why Daario was left behind was for him to not return to the story, and I have a suspicion the same applies for Jorah. I don't know... I can't decide which would make less sense, keep Kinvara or ditch her. 

My point is I'm not sure there will be any new LOL adherents turning up in Westeros and instead Kinvara basically serves to remind the audience of Vary's dislike for Red Priests and shows why he's justified in having hat view. Not just his own childhood but that Kinvara is talking about behaving the way Mel did in the past, looking to expand her religion in a brutal fashion killing anyone who won't convert. This could also serve to highlight the fashion in which Mel has potentially changed, her failure with Stannis has shaken her faith in the "rightness" of her cause/religion and instead she seems more focused on her potential role in fighting the Walkers, maybe this attitude is what allows her to convince Dany/Varys/etc?

Perhaps a long shot but one thing that does occur to me is that if Mel does end up with Dany theres really only one named character in her alliance with the "ability" to create a shadow baby to potentially use against Cersei, Tyrion.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, MoreOrLess said:

My point is I'm not sure there will be any new LOL adherents turning up in Westeros and instead Kinvara basically serves to remind the audience of Vary's dislike for Red Priests and shows why he's justified in having hat view. Not just his own childhood but that Kinvara is talking about behaving the way Mel did in the past, looking to expand her religion in a brutal fashion killing anyone who won't convert. This could also serve to highlight the fashion in which Mel has potentially changed, her failure with Stannis has shaken her faith in the "rightness" of her cause/religion and instead she seems more focused on her potential role in fighting the Walkers, maybe this attitude is what allows her to convince Dany/Varys/etc?

Perhaps a long shot but one thing that does occur to me is that if Mel does end up with Dany theres really only one named character in her alliance with the "ability" to create a shadow baby to potentially use against Cersei, Tyrion.

I think it's possible that Kinvara is a one episode character.  After what Varys went though I don't think that he is okay with Blood-Magic.  I think that Jon and Sansa (with Davos) won't be all too keen to accept the Lord of Light either and maybe that's a key thing.  Maybe the only way to save Westeros is to not accept the LoL adherents "help" in the coming war, maybe that in it's way is the Great Temptation that must be overcome.  If Kinvara appears again I can see that developing as a plot line, after all as Davos said "if your god demands the sacrifice of little girls then he is evil".

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On ‎13‎/‎09‎/‎2016 at 8:05 PM, Byfort of Corfe said:

I think it's possible that Kinvara is a one episode character.  After what Varys went though I don't think that he is okay with Blood-Magic.  I think that Jon and Sansa (with Davos) won't be all too keen to accept the Lord of Light either and maybe that's a key thing.  Maybe the only way to save Westeros is to not accept the LoL adherents "help" in the coming war, maybe that in it's way is the Great Temptation that must be overcome.  If Kinvara appears again I can see that developing as a plot line, after all as Davos said "if your god demands the sacrifice of little girls then he is evil".

Maybe but I could also see the key being that the abilities of the Red Preists/esses need to be used BUT there ridged adherence to their religion needs to be dropped. That's why I say that Kinvara seems more like a reminder of who Mel used to be pre humbling, someone still worthy of distrust whilst the more humbled Mel can potentially offer something different.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 6 months later...
On 29.8.2016 at 11:51 PM, RhaenysB said:

Honestly, does she even have a purpose? Daenerys never met her, Kinvara is in Meereen/Volantis for what we know and Daenerys is on a ship somewhere in the Narrow Sea. She had ONE scene in which she talked about the secrets of Varys's castration. People are ALREADY debating whether Daenerys or Jon is AA/TPTWP and Kinvara has nothing to do with that. I mean hatching dragons in a pyre, the appearance of a red comet and being fireproof speak a little louder than a random red priestess with 2 minutes of screentime... 

But hey, maybe Kinvara will get a jet pack and magically pop up to win over the small folk for Daenerys... they didn't give a fuck about losing the great sept anyways, I'm sure they are open to a new religion.  


Amusingly, in the next scene with Tyrion and Varys where Varys leaves for Westeros, both of them are acting as if the mystical 2nd half of the Kinvara scene had never happened - Varys keeps complaining about "fanatics" (which is exactly what he called her right before she proceeded to rebuke him), Tyrion says it's not that bad etc.

Ironically, every commenter in this thread except for that one post quoted above^^^^, seems to be suffering from the same amnesia...



Clearly the most important part of that scene was what happened in the 2nd half:

already established as the "high priestess" of the whole cult, i.e. MELISANDRE'S UBER BOSS, she lived up to the expectations and displayed a... fireseeing? redseeing? ability way superior to Mel's:
Rather than just seeing vague visions of the future and doubting their accuracy every minute, she had concrete knowledge of what happened to Varys.

This could be either her own skills or maybe additionally the accumulated (psychic) knowledge of her whole cult - which would add a conspiratorial, secretive aspect to the cult, and also imply that whatever happened to Varys was actually of immense importance, or part of something important.


The scene gives one a new appreciation for, and fear of the Red Priests, by presenting something even more potent than Melisandre - superior mystical powers + what could amount to the power and fanaticism of the Faith Militant.

Aside from adding to the whole juicy LoL intrigue, it also sets up for comparisons between these 2 fanatic cults - one of whom actually possesses supernatural powers


It's also important to Varys' storyline, or mythos I should say considering he's an enigmatic figure himself:
-his worldly (but also mysterious) spying abilities/networks are finally juxtaposed with psychic insight, perhaps even trumped by it; lots of intriguing potential in such a storyline
-cements the fire/cock story as a true supernatural mystery probably important to the central mythology - priorly to that, it could've just been some unreliable memory or parlor trick; now the voice in the fire is a real thing, along with whom it belonged to and what it said.
-it should change Varys' outlook somewhat - previously as someone who just "hated magic" based on that experience, and now he's virtually certain that the magic was real and can't be at least somewhat intrigued to learn more about it.
((of course he'd been supporting Dany this whole time, but I think that's more of a plot hole - Tyrion's the one he told that story to, and now both of them talk about supporting the magic queen who can walk through fire))

-should have a significant impact on Tyrion, too - considering he was there when Varys told him the story, and he couldn't have possibly expected it to come up again in that way.



So, what are the chances of all this stuff having a follow-up?
Well... the scene itself was an unexpected follow-up of a previous scene that was way less likely to have had a follow-up - ESPECIALLY in such a "significant form". They could've bumped into some "second rate wizard practice", Varys would say "yeah he was one of these guys", they'd turn out to be poor men's warlocks or something and that'd be the end of it? But no, not what you expected.

So credit where credit's due, so far this scene has done nothing less than reaffirm the viewership's "faith" in the show to have a coherent master plan with planted set-ups and tied up loose ends - but, the possibility that they'll forget about the signifance of this development is still there:
after all, they did forget about it when writing the subsequent Varys/Tyrion scene (just like the posters here LOL) - so who knows.

They also forgot how Jaqen offered Arya to train her to kill Meryn etc. but then punished her for pursuing revenge and Arya didn't remember anything to the contrary either.


So... we'll see I suppose. Melisandre's gonna show up again, and the Red Priests aren't going anywhere so it'll probably come up again.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

×
×
  • Create New...