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fAegon is the Stallion who Mounts the World


MinotaurWarrior

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This idea is actually very straightforward. Let's start with AGoT Daenerys V, to explain why I think Rhaego wasn't the Stallion 

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"Khalakka dothrae mr'anha!" she proclaimed in her best Dothraki. A prince rides inside me! She had practiced the phrase for days with her handmaid Jhiqui.

....

Finally the crone opened her eye and lifted her arms. "I have seen his face, and heard the thunder of his hooves," she proclaimed in a thin, wavery voice

...

"As swift as the wind he rides, and behind him his khalasar covers the earth, men without number, with arakhs shining in their hands like blades of razor grass. Fierce as a storm this prince will be. His enemies will tremble before him, and their wives will weep tears of blood and rend their flesh in grief. The bells in his hair will sing his coming, and the milk men in the stone tents will fear his name." The old woman trembled and looked at Dany almost as if she were afraid. "The prince is riding, and he shall be the stallion who mounts the world."

I think this is sufficient context to show why I doubt that the SwMtW prophecy was about Rhaego son of Drogo. "Rides" is apparently a standard dothraki euphemism for pregnancy - Dany was trained to say it weeks ahead of the vision. It's also used to describe sex and actually riding animals. The Dosh Khaleen have a vision of the STMtW riding a horse, and everyone assumes it's Dany's kid... seemingly just because the Dosh say the ambiguous phrase, "The prince is riding." If Drogo had been having sex with her at that moment, they might have proclaimed him to be the Stallion, because "riding" is also what the dothraki call sex.

So, why fAegon? Well, let's look at the only vision of the Stallion that we see directly:

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A tall lord with copper skin and silver-gold hair stood beneath the banner of a fiery stallion, a burning city behind him.

Aegon is tall, a lord, tan, and has silver hair. He is literally the only character who fits these characteristics.

Now, let's look more closely at what was prophesied:

  • "I have seen his face"
    • This detail is profoundly unimportant when talking about an unborn child, but is strangely central to fAegon's story. The fact that he has a face confirms that he's not dead / not who he claims to be.
  • "and heard the thunder of his hooves"
    • fAegon's conquests start at Storm's End
    • fAegon is trained as a knight
    • If anyone is being metaphorically described as a "Stallion" that means their feet would be "hooves:. fAegon is trained is Westerosi fighting arts, which involve wearing very heavy, loud footwear.
  • "As swift as the wind he rides"
    • fAegon sails, which can be described as riding the wind
    • Again, he's trained as a knight
    • Could become a dragon rider, which create wind with their swift riding
  • "And behind him his khalasar covers the earth, men without number, with arakhs shining in their hands like blades of razor grass"
    • If Khalasar and arakh are just the dothraki words for army and sword, this could already be fulfilled with the GC.
    • If not, we know it's already fAegon's plan to unite with Dany as joint Monarchs of Westeros and more. In that case, he'd be giving up partial control of Westeros for partial control of her armies, possibly including a Khalasar.
  • "Fierce as a storm this prince will be."
    • Again, he starts his conquest at Storm's End.
    • He's determined to prove himself equal in all ways (including ferocity) to Daenerys Stormborn
    • He gets super angry about Cyvasse. Dude has anger issues.
  • "His enemies will tremble before him"
    • A bizarre number of fAegon's likely enemies are disabled or otherwise more strongly inclined to physically tremble. Doran has gout and is convinced fAegon is fake. Sweetrobin has epilepsy and is a puppet of Littlefinger. Olenna Tyrell is super old and hates the Targaryens. Et cetera.
    • Of course, many of his enemies are likely to fear him and tremble because they don't want to die.
    • This can be more metaphorical - the rebels who killed fAegon's 'dad' could be said to have been trembling leading up to his arrival ('before him'). Houses Stark, Tully, and Baratheon have lost their seats, Lannister has fallen into the hands of a madwoman, and Arryn is in danger of jumping from a sickly child to a umpteenth cousin.
  • "And their wives will weep tears of blood and rend their flesh in grief"
    • Catelyn Stark
    • Also, any random smallfolk or wives of minor lordlings who feel dramatic when his armies are inbound
  • "The bells in his hair will sing his coming"
    • A slight problem, but he could adopt this element of Dothraki fashion in an attempt to win over his Khaleesi
  • "and the milk men"
    • fAegon faces white people.
    • Rhaego wouldn't have faced white people, what with his mom and dad having already conquered westeros by the time he was an adult.
  • "in the stone tents"
    • White people in castles are fAegon's main adversaries. 
  • "will fear his name"
    • His name is, so far, the scariest thing about fAegon. People don't fear his swordsmanship or his strategic brilliance or anything like that. They fear his name.
  • "A tall lord with copper skin and silver-gold hair"
    • Again, this describes fAegon
  • "stood"
    • Khal's don't stand. Lord's stand.
  • "beneath the banner"
    • Again, banners are a westerosi thing
  • "of a fiery stallion"
  • "a burning city behind him."
    • King's Landing is the most flammable city in the world, and it's conquest is high on fAegon's agenda

What does this mean?

Basically nothing. I think this is like rubbing salt in the wound of the SwMtW's lack of payoff in AGoT. You thought the prophecy didn't matter because it got cancelled when Rhaego was stillborn. Actually it didn't matter because the Stallion is a rando who came out of left field, did nothing relevant to the original seers (Dosh Khaleen are like 'Eggo who?'), and is important to us largely for reasons that have nothing to do with the prophecy he fulfils. Is there any way your hopes and dreams can matter even less? Read TWoW to find out!

I also happen to think this will be how the PtWP situation will turn out in the end. All that will change in the "sword in the dark" vs "flaming sword in the sky" debate is tense. It doesn't matter who's the PtWP - what matters is what Jon and Dany and co choose to do as people.

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I think it would be a great twist if it's actually Aegon who starts to take the threat of the White Walkers seriously. Maybe he sends forces up north, but it costs him dearly in his coming battle with Daenerys. It might be how she really finds out about the threat and joins the fight. Remeber the cyvvase game; "your dragon is too far away to save you."

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Interesting theory! Would be interesting to see how this hypothetical revelation would effect Dany

 

Re: Bells in his hair, I think it's fair to say this means two things - he'll be undefeated (in battle, at least) and word of his victories will move faster and farther than he will. The use of 'sing' lends support to this, as travelling singers are a pretty common way of spreading news like this. Prophecies like this don't need to be taken completely literally.

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7 hours ago, MinotaurWarrior said:

Aegon is tall, a lord, tan, and has silver hair. He is literally the only character who fits these characteristics.

Stop right there. A tan doesn't make a white person's complexion look copper. 

7 hours ago, MinotaurWarrior said:

Now, let's look more closely at what was prophesied:

  • "I have seen his face"
    • This detail is profoundly unimportant when talking about an unborn child, but is strangely central to fAegon's story. The fact that he has a face confirms that he's not dead / not who he claims to be.

I am afraid I do not follow here. The crone prophesizes the future of the unborn child, so naturally, the child will have a face there. Also, seeing someone's face doesn't point in any way to him having a false identity.

 

7 hours ago, MinotaurWarrior said:
  • "and heard the thunder of his hooves"
    • fAegon's conquests start at Storm's End
    • fAegon is trained as a knight
    • If anyone is being metaphorically described as a "Stallion" that means their feet would be "hooves:. fAegon is trained is Westerosi fighting arts, which involve wearing very heavy, loud footwear.

Thunder of hooves is a common metaphore and there is no need to go into footwear details here.

7 hours ago, MinotaurWarrior said:
  • "As swift as the wind he rides"
    • fAegon sails, which can be described as riding the wind
    • Again, he's trained as a knight
    • Could become a dragon rider, which create wind with their swift riding

Again, you're being unnecessarily literal here. Swift as wind is a common figure of speech, no need to create literal wind.

7 hours ago, MinotaurWarrior said:
  • "And behind him his khalasar covers the earth, men without number, with arakhs shining in their hands like blades of razor grass"
    • If Khalasar and arakh are just the dothraki words for army and sword, this could already be fulfilled with the GC.
    • If not, we know it's already fAegon's plan to unite with Dany as joint Monarchs of Westeros and more. In that case, he'd be giving up partial control of Westeros for partial control of her armies, possibly including a Khalasar.

You're right that this can be a Dothraki reference to just any army, or perhaps it refers to the part of the prophecy of uniting all khalasars.

7 hours ago, MinotaurWarrior said:
  • "Fierce as a storm this prince will be."
    • Again, he starts his conquest at Storm's End.
    • He's determined to prove himself equal in all ways (including ferocity) to Daenerys Stormborn
    • He gets super angry about Cyvasse. Dude has anger issues.

Again a rather common figure of speech but you have there a point that I will adress later.

7 hours ago, MinotaurWarrior said:
  • "His enemies will tremble before him"
    • A bizarre number of fAegon's likely enemies are disabled or otherwise more strongly inclined to physically tremble. Doran has gout and is convinced fAegon is fake. Sweetrobin has epilepsy and is a puppet of Littlefinger. Olenna Tyrell is super old and hates the Targaryens. Et cetera.
    • Of course, many of his enemies are likely to fear him and tremble because they don't want to die.
    • This can be more metaphorical - the rebels who killed fAegon's 'dad' could be said to have been trembling leading up to his arrival ('before him'). Houses Stark, Tully, and Baratheon have lost their seats, Lannister has fallen into the hands of a madwoman, and Arryn is in danger of jumping from a sickly child to a umpteenth cousin.

Tremble in fear is yet another common phrase, referring to vanquishing one's enemies, and they don't have to tremble literally.

 

7 hours ago, MinotaurWarrior said:
  • "And their wives will weep tears of blood and rend their flesh in grief"
    • Catelyn Stark
    • Also, any random smallfolk or wives of minor lordlings who feel dramatic when his armies are inbound

Indeed, the usual drama. Just as in the phrases above, it is pretty much a cliche.

7 hours ago, MinotaurWarrior said:
  • "The bells in his hair will sing his coming"
    • A slight problem, but he could adopt this element of Dothraki fashion in an attempt to win over his Khaleesi

Or again a Dothraki image of what a leader should look like

7 hours ago, MinotaurWarrior said:
  • "and the milk men"
    • fAegon faces white people.
    • Rhaego wouldn't have faced white people, what with his mom and dad having already conquered westeros by the time he was an adult.

Westeros is not the only part of the world where white people live, though, not to mention that Dany's conquest back then was far from given.

7 hours ago, MinotaurWarrior said:
  • "in the stone tents"
    • White people in castles are fAegon's main adversaries. 

Stone tents can be basically any kind of city building but castles are most likely.

7 hours ago, MinotaurWarrior said:
  • "will fear his name"
    • His name is, so far, the scariest thing about fAegon. People don't fear his swordsmanship or his strategic brilliance or anything like that. They fear his name.

So far, we haven't exactly seen people fear Aegon, though I agree that it is his supposed name that is his greatest strength.

7 hours ago, MinotaurWarrior said:
  • "A tall lord with copper skin and silver-gold hair"
    • Again, this describes fAegon

Sorry but nope.

7 hours ago, MinotaurWarrior said:
  • "stood"
    • Khal's don't stand. Lord's stand.

Excuse me? Everyone can stand. If you mean that a khal would be on horseback, you must remember that this is no longer the crone's prophecy but the HotU vision which needn't comply with the Dothraki imagery.

7 hours ago, MinotaurWarrior said:
  • "beneath the banner"
    • Again, banners are a westerosi thing

Agreed.

7 hours ago, MinotaurWarrior said:

Has Bittersteel's sign ever been described as fiery, though? And why should Aegon adopt it when he goes under Targaryen guise?

 

7 hours ago, MinotaurWarrior said:
  • "a burning city behind him."
    • King's Landing is the most flammable city in the world, and it's conquest is high on fAegon's agenda

Not just Aegon's, though, and a burning city can symbolize a conquest in general.

7 hours ago, MinotaurWarrior said:

What does this mean?

Basically nothing. I think this is like rubbing salt in the wound of the SwMtW's lack of payoff in AGoT. You thought the prophecy didn't matter because it got cancelled when Rhaego was stillborn. Actually it didn't matter because the Stallion is a rando who came out of left field, did nothing relevant to the original seers (Dosh Khaleen are like 'Eggo who?'), and is important to us largely for reasons that have nothing to do with the prophecy he fulfils. Is there any way your hopes and dreams can matter even less? Read TWoW to find out!

I also happen to think this will be how the PtWP situation will turn out in the end. All that will change in the "sword in the dark" vs "flaming sword in the sky" debate is tense. It doesn't matter who's the PtWP - what matters is what Jon and Dany and co choose to do as people.

Well... I wouldn't discard the prophecy quite so quickly because there was another person present who may fit it: Dany herself. Fierce as a storm, with bells in her hair, and potentially uniting the khalasars. Quite naturally, if the crone saw someone leading a khalasar of khalasars, she would assume the person to be male, and even if she saw Dany's face, she would assume that her son would look like his mother. It's not like we haven't seen gender confusion in a prophecy before.

As for the HotU vision, the tall lord with copper skin is almost certainly Rhaego - the image is placed along with the deaths of Viserys and Rhaegar, where Aegon, real or not, wouldn't fit. Rhaego's death is one of the three which shaped Dany's future. 

 

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3 hours ago, Ygrain said:

Stop right there. A tan doesn't make a white person's complexion look copper. 

You're Czech? I think this is a cultural difference. One of the most dominant and iconic brands in American tanning is literally called copper tone, based on the idea than white people can obtain copper toned skin through use of their products. I can't find any quotes directly supporting GRRM's familiarity with this brand or with the concept, but a brief survey of people who lived in coastal NJ around the same time as GRRM reveals that they have 100% confidence GRRM would be familiar (and that they're are super confused by the question, lol)

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I am afraid I do not follow here. The crone prophesizes the future of the unborn child, so naturally, the child will have a face there. Also, seeing someone's face doesn't point in any way to him having a false identity.

My point is that it adds no value when talking about Rhaego. She clearly wasn't saying, "I see his face, and that allows me to identify him." It's wasted words, if it's about rhaego the faceless child.

On the other hand, if it's about Aegon, it was pointless for her to say, but it was meaningful for us to read and GRRM to write, because it's a few notes of Aegon's personal motif getting played in the background.

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Thunder of hooves is a common metaphore and there is no need to go into footwear details here.

Again, you're being unnecessarily literal here. Swift as wind is a common figure of speech, no need to create literal wind.

 

I think it's GRRM who went out of his way to make it work on multiple levels. But you're right that the horsemanship alone qualifies fAegon (and about 97% of all male characters) to meet that part of the prophecy.

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You're right that this can be a Dothraki reference to just any army, or perhaps it refers to the part of the prophecy of uniting all khalasars.

 

Except, I'd like to point out, that's not actually specifically prophesied. You're right that you can interpret that line as meaning that the SwMtW will unite all the Khalasars, but you can't interpret it as a reference to "the part of the prophecy of uniting all khalasars." because there is no other part of the prophecy saying that. The entire prophecy is a paragraph long.

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Again a rather common figure of speech but you have there a point that I will adress later.

Tremble in fear is yet another common phrase, referring to vanquishing one's enemies, and they don't have to tremble literally.

Indeed, the usual drama. Just as in the phrases above, it is pretty much a cliche.

 

So, again, I agree that these are borderline cliche statements, used as part of a motif of "the typical powerful Khal." I'm just not so quick to brush it off that they're working on these other more literal levels. 

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Or again a Dothraki image of what a leader should look like

 

Well, it's the same thing. If anyone does literally put bells in their hair, they're doing it to fit that Dothraki image of leadership / excellence.

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Westeros is not the only part of the world where white people live, though, not to mention that Dany's conquest back then was far from given.

 

It's the only place that white people live where Dany / Drogo wanted to conquer. I'll give you though that Drogo could have screwed up invasion 1 and had to wait for his son to mount successful invasion 2.

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Stone tents can be basically any kind of city building but castles are most likely.

 

Well, any kind of stone building.

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So far, we haven't exactly seen people fear Aegon, though I agree that it is his supposed name that is his greatest strength.

 

Well, we saw Robert and Tywin fear his name, but I see your point. The fear element is still mostly unfulfilled, though I'll say it'd be weird if nobody feared him as he goes on his conquest spree.

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Sorry but nope.

 

Yeah, again, I think this is a Czech / American thing.

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Excuse me? Everyone can stand. If you mean that a khal would be on horseback, you must remember that this is no longer the crone's prophecy but the HotU vision which needn't comply with the Dothraki imagery.

 

Well, it would, if Dany was seeing a Khal raised in Dothraki culture.

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Agreed.

Has Bittersteel's sign ever been described as fiery, though? And why should Aegon adopt it when he goes under Targaryen guise?

 

I mean, it has fire in it, so I think that can be described as fiery.

And fAegon needn't adopt Bittersteel's banner to literally stand beneath it. Hell, he needn't even be fake. He just needs to happen to have it out when leading Bittersteel's mercenary company. Or it could be that Varys et al have it taken out specifically because this is the secret fulfillment of the man's dream, or it could just be metaphorically "under his banner" because it's his company / his dream.

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Not just Aegon's, though, and a burning city can symbolize a conquest in general.

 

Sure, but he is one of the people it fits, and it fits on multiple levels.

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Well... I wouldn't discard the prophecy quite so quickly because there was another person present who may fit it: Dany herself. Fierce as a storm, with bells in her hair, and potentially uniting the khalasars. Quite naturally, if the crone saw someone leading a khalasar of khalasars, she would assume the person to be male, and even if she saw Dany's face, she would assume that her son would look like his mother. It's not like we haven't seen gender confusion in a prophecy before.

 

I think the face thing disqualifies her, quite frankly. But regardless, the Dothraki are not a genderfluid society like Valyria, Stallion is not a gender neutral term, and neither are the frequent masculine pronouns.

But, to be clear, I agree that if anyone is going to unite the Dothraki it's Dany.

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As for the HotU vision, the tall lord with copper skin is almost certainly Rhaego - the image is placed along with the deaths of Viserys and Rhaegar, where Aegon, real or not, wouldn't fit. Rhaego's death is one of the three which shaped Dany's future. 

I mean, sure, if it's Rhaego then that's the theme. If it's fAegon then it's a vision of her male relatives who come before her in the line of succession, and were 'meant' to marry her, and are possibly three traitors, and and and. Any list of three can have several themes. Even if it's the list of three dead people who shaped her life, Aegon fits better than Rhaego. Had Rhaego lived, basically nothing would be different, except that Dany would be slightly more inconvenienced by the baby. Had Aegon not 'had his head smashed in' then Dany's whole life would be different, because neither her nor her brother would have been Targaryen Pretenders.

 

3 hours ago, Nictarion said:

:lmao:There is one character in this story that will unite all the Dothraki into a single khalasar, and that's Daenerys. 

Sure. And Neither Jon nor Dany are going to Ashai'i. Like I said, I'd be surprised if the Dosh Khaleen ever learn how to pronounce Aegon's name - he really doesn't matter to them at all. But mattering to the seer is absolutely not a requirement for being a prophesied figure. Remember, neither AAR nor the PtwP were around to save the seers' societies from apocalypses. The Dothraki are getting off lucky that it's just a conqueror and new Khaleesi-khaleesi their prophesied figure won't be there to do heck about. 

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3 hours ago, MinotaurWarrior said:

You're Czech? I think this is a cultural difference. One of the most dominant and iconic brands in American tanning is literally called copper tone, based on the idea than white people can obtain copper toned skin through use of their products. I can't find any quotes directly supporting GRRM's familiarity with this brand or with the concept, but a brief survey of people who lived in coastal NJ around the same time as GRRM reveals that they have 100% confidence GRRM would be familiar (and that they're are super confused by the question, lol)

Well, I must say I am quite surprised at such a notion, but the problem is that nowhere in the English-written literature I have read have I seen a white person's natural tan described as copper. Nor do I recall GRRM describing a tanned Westerosi person as copper, IIRC, that shade is used with the Dothraki or Lhazarene. Hence the doubt.

3 hours ago, MinotaurWarrior said:

My point is that it adds no value when talking about Rhaego. She clearly wasn't saying, "I see his face, and that allows me to identify him." It's wasted words, if it's about rhaego the faceless child.

Well but it's - or at least it's supposed to be - about Rhaego's future, in which he wouldn't be faceless. For me, it's like saying that she is sure that the vision she had is that of Rhaego.

3 hours ago, MinotaurWarrior said:

On the other hand, if it's about Aegon, it was pointless for her to say, but it was meaningful for us to read and GRRM to write, because it's a few notes of Aegon's personal motif getting played in the background.

The problem is that Aegon's face doesn't give anything specific to identify him by, or to judge if he is the real deal or not, so the mention of his face in connection with Aegon doesn't carry much meaning.

I do not exclude the possibility of multiple levels, 

 

3 hours ago, MinotaurWarrior said:

Except, I'd like to point out, that's not actually specifically prophesied. You're right that you can interpret that line as meaning that the SwMtW will unite all the Khalasars, but you can't interpret it as a reference to "the part of the prophecy of uniting all khalasars." because there is no other part of the prophecy saying that. The entire prophecy is a paragraph long.

Ah, my bad. It's a different prophecy, mentioned in connection with Vaes Dothrak, I think.

3 hours ago, MinotaurWarrior said:

So, again, I agree that these are borderline cliche statements, used as part of a motif of "the typical powerful Khal." I'm just not so quick to brush it off that they're working on these other more literal levels. 

Yes, they are definitely the usual "badass warrior" labels. They can work on multiple levels, especially that part about fierce as a storm when the crone holds her hands on the belly of the person who is stormborn.

3 hours ago, MinotaurWarrior said:

It's the only place that white people live where Dany / Drogo wanted to conquer. I'll give you though that Drogo could have screwed up invasion 1 and had to wait for his son to mount successful invasion 2.

Yes but stallion who mounts the world may not limit his/her exploits solely to Westeros (cough Dany cough).

3 hours ago, MinotaurWarrior said:

Well, it would, if Dany was seeing a Khal raised in Dothraki culture.

The said khal would be her son, so a mixture of Dothraki and Westerosi culture wouldn't be all that weird.

3 hours ago, MinotaurWarrior said:

I mean, it has fire in it, so I think that can be described as fiery.

It perhaps can, but the problem is that a banner of fiery stallion needn't be bittersteel fire-snorting stallion at all.

3 hours ago, MinotaurWarrior said:

And fAegon needn't adopt Bittersteel's banner to literally stand beneath it. Hell, he needn't even be fake. He just needs to happen to have it out when leading Bittersteel's mercenary company. Or it could be that Varys et al have it taken out specifically because this is the secret fulfillment of the man's dream, or it could just be metaphorically "under his banner" because it's his company / his dream.

But this interpretation would make the GC a much bigger deal than it should be. I mean, why should Aegon identify himself - or be identified in a vision - by the banner of people working for him while he is, or poises as, a Targaryen, i.e. a three-headed dragon? It doesn't make much sense to me. Whereas, if Rhaego ever had his standard, a stallion as a "sigil" of his Dothraki father, and fire from his fire-and-blood mother, makes a whole lot of sense.

Besides, the fiery stallion reminds, rather uncomfortably, of the fiery heart of R'hllor's followers. I wonder whether this is a coincidence.

3 hours ago, MinotaurWarrior said:

I think the face thing disqualifies her, quite frankly. But regardless, the Dothraki are not a genderfluid society like Valyria, Stallion is not a gender neutral term, and neither are the frequent masculine pronouns.

That was not what I meant. The point is that if a Dothraki seeress saw a person with bells in the hair leading a khalassar, she would automatically assume that this person is male because the Dothraki never have, or would, follow a woman. Thus the whole "stallion" thing may be just a culturally coloured lens that would never imagine a woman as a military leader.

3 hours ago, MinotaurWarrior said:

I mean, sure, if it's Rhaego then that's the theme. If it's fAegon then it's a vision of her male relatives who come before her in the line of succession, and were 'meant' to marry her, and are possibly three traitors, and and and. Any list of three can have several themes. Even if it's the list of three dead people who shaped her life, Aegon fits better than Rhaego. Had Rhaego lived, basically nothing would be different, except that Dany would be slightly more inconvenienced by the baby. Had Aegon not 'had his head smashed in' then Dany's whole life would be different, because neither her nor her brother would have been Targaryen Pretenders.

But it's a list of dead people there, where Aegon doesn't fit at all (and the image doesn't fit the rAegon if YG is fAegon).

 

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20 hours ago, Ygrain said:

Well, I must say I am quite surprised at such a notion, but the problem is that nowhere in the English-written literature I have read have I seen a white person's natural tan described as copper. Nor do I recall GRRM describing a tanned Westerosi person as copper, IIRC, that shade is used with the Dothraki or Lhazarene. Hence the doubt.

Looking more into this, all I can really say is "wow. The way we describe tan people really doesn't make much sense." This is the first google image result for "copper skin tone" I could get, but by and large it seems like "copper skin" isn't really a phrase people use very often. Rather more common is the darker "bronze" where this is the first google image result for me. While I'm sure those two examples involve a lot of cosmetic products, you don't necessarily need them to get in those ranges, and coppertone comes from an age before products that artificially hasten tanning. Rather, coppertone is a product that slows it down and keeps people from getting darker than 'copper'.

This is complicated somewhat by the fact that GRRM apparently never describes tans. The word tan is used 5 times, and never to describe living human skin, according to A Search of Ice and Fire. So I really can't say anything ompletely definitive here.

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Well but it's - or at least it's supposed to be - about Rhaego's future, in which he wouldn't be faceless. For me, it's like saying that she is sure that the vision she had is that of Rhaego.

 

But that can't be it, because she hasn't seen Rhaego's face.

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The problem is that Aegon's face doesn't give anything specific to identify him by, or to judge if he is the real deal or not, so the mention of his face in connection with Aegon doesn't carry much meaning.

 

It carries metaphorical and thematic meaning.

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Yes but stallion who mounts the world may not limit his/her exploits solely to Westeros (cough Dany cough).

 

Dany has exclusively fought non-milky people in almost exclusively non-stone buildings (the HOtU was stone, wasn't it?)

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But this interpretation would make the GC a much bigger deal than it should be. I mean, why should Aegon identify himself - or be identified in a vision - by the banner of people working for him while he is, or poises as, a Targaryen, i.e. a three-headed dragon? It doesn't make much sense to me. Whereas, if Rhaego ever had his standard, a stallion as a "sigil" of his Dothraki father, and fire from his fire-and-blood mother, makes a whole lot of sense.

 

If Aegon is fake, then his whole life has been an elaborate conspiracy for the fulfillment of Bittersteel's dream. Even if not, the Golden Company is still huge for him, as it's his starter army that he uses to begin the conquest.

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Besides, the fiery stallion reminds, rather uncomfortably, of the fiery heart of R'hllor's followers. I wonder whether this is a coincidence.

I mean, of course not. This also directly foreshadows the Battle of the Blackwater, just as one example. An important part of how GRRM keeps Dany's chapters relevant is by using them to foreshadow major events in Westeros.

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That was not what I meant. The point is that if a Dothraki seeress saw a person with bells in the hair leading a khalassar, she would automatically assume that this person is male because the Dothraki never have, or would, follow a woman. Thus the whole "stallion" thing may be just a culturally coloured lens that would never imagine a woman as a military leader.

 

Sure, but the Dosh saw his face and was standing directly in front of Dany. I mean, she didn't see his genitals or anything, but still.

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But it's a list of dead people there, where Aegon doesn't fit at all (and the image doesn't fit the rAegon if YG is fAegon).

If Aegon is fake, then the vision of fAegon under the banner is a vision of a dead child precisely as illusory as any vision of Rhaego as an adult would have been. If Aegon is real, then his "death" is still one of the three she is a "daughter of." She's not literally the daughter of death, Aegon needn't be literally dead.

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I do not exclude the possibility of multiple levels, 

Ah, my bad. It's a different prophecy, mentioned in connection with Vaes Dothrak, I think.

Yes, they are definitely the usual "badass warrior" labels. They can work on multiple levels, especially that part about fierce as a storm when the crone holds her hands on the belly of the person who is stormborn.

The said khal would be her son, so a mixture of Dothraki and Westerosi culture wouldn't be all that weird.

It perhaps can, but the problem is that a banner of fiery stallion needn't be bittersteel fire-snorting stallion at all.

Grouping these things together - sure, nothing needs to work for Aegon, but it does. I think we're really on the same page here. "The banner of a fiery stallion" doesn't necessarily mean Bittersteel's.

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36 minutes ago, MinotaurWarrior said:

Well, no. Aegon seems to literally be the only tall silver haired tan lord in the world.

Aurane Waters comes to mind. For that matter any number of members in House Velayron likely have such features. Darkstar as well, perhaps other distant members of House Dayne. And that's only off the top of my head and being literal. If you interpret silver hair as a helmet or something then the net gets cast even wider.

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5 hours ago, Lord Lannister said:

Aurane Waters comes to mind. For that matter any number of members in House Velayron likely have such features. Darkstar as well, perhaps other distant members of House Dayne. And that's only off the top of my head and being literal. If you interpret silver hair as a helmet or something then the net gets cast even wider.

Aurane isn't tall. The Current Lord Velaryon is six. Darkstar isn't a lord, and his hair is split black and silver. Though, yeah, anyone can wear a helmet or a wig.

5 hours ago, Ferocious Veldt Roarer said:

I do not think than when you subject yourself to the dosh khaleen's fortunetelling, they'd give you instead the fortune of some random third person.

I bet whoever initially received the Ashai'i prophecy of Azor Ahai reborn or the Valyrian prophecy of the Prince that was Promised wouldn't have expected those prophecies to be fulfilled by Westerosi-born kids after their homelands were subjected to apocalyptic events.

5 hours ago, Light a wight tonight said:

Just touching on copper toned skin, we have one Targ who is subject to strong sunlight, Dany, and nowhere is she referred to as copper-skinned. Why would fAegon be different?

Because she's not half-dornish (or a plausible imitation of being half dornish)? Also, there's this passage:

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Dany smiled. "My son has his name, but I will try your summerwine," she said in Valyrian, Valyrian as they spoke it in the Free Cities. The words felt strange on her tongue, after so long. "Just a taste, if you would be so kind."

The merchant must have taken her for Dothraki, with her clothes and her oiled hair and sun-browned skin. When she spoke, he gaped at her in astonishment. "My lady, you are … Tyroshi? Can it be so?"

Her tan does, in fact, make her skin resemble that of a Dothraki woman, which, through the transitive power of comparison, makes it like copper.

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