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Incest in Volantis


BigBoss01

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I think the incest is specifically about the Dragon riding "gene" and as non of the Volanteen Valyrians are from Dragonlord families. I'd say there is no reason to practice it.  That said. I'd guess that hubris has led to them doing so as they do like to project the idea that they are the blood of old Valyria and so might well take it on in order to add gravitas to that. 

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Well, all closed elite groups with relatively small number of members are bound to practice it occasionally, mostly uncle/niece.

While dragon rider gene is nice explanation, even if it's true, I don't know do people in-universe know about it and think about it same way we do.

But incest in Volantis is probably wide spread because of the looks, as we can see with Targs, platinum hair/purple eyes are extremely recessive, nobles have to practice it or they would look just like everyone else in few generations.

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We know that incest originated with the dragonlords in Valyria and then spread throughout the population. Thus it is pretty likely that it is still the prevalent marriage custom among the elites of Lys and Volantis, the city where the Valyrian customs and bloodlines are still very strong.

Volantis saw itself as the New Valyria after the Doom. It would be very odd if they had broken with one of the core Valyrian traits.

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10 hours ago, BigBoss01 said:

Do noble valyrian houses in Volantis practice incest like the Targaryens and Velaryons in Westeros?

Since the Old Blood consider themselves the heirs to old Valyria, I would think it is very likely.

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9 minutes ago, BigBoss01 said:

Then what non-valyrian families think of incest in Volantis? Is that a taboo like in Westeros

We don't have any information.  I don't know if incest was practised by the Valyrian lower classes, or if it was considered just the prerogative of the nobility/dragonriders.

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On 23/08/2016 at 8:25 PM, BigBoss01 said:

Do noble valyrian houses in Volantis practice incest like the Targaryens and Velaryons in Westeros?

I don't think so, at least not past first cousin incest.

Volantis is supposedly the largest city in terms of population, so I think there should be a big enough gene pool so that the "Old Valyria Families" can sire children exclusively within themselves, without producing sister-brother inbreds like Aerys II.

The worst is probably first cousin relationships, but Tywin had his first cousin as a wife and look what happened to his lovely children!

 

Oh wait...

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On Wednesday, 24 August 2016 at 11:00 AM, Falcon2908 said:

Nothing wrong with consensual incest

12 hours ago, Scootaloo Stark said:

I like you and the way you think.

Gross.

And may I say that I am absolutely shocked - shocked! - that two perverts would appear to be fans of anime and My Little Pony.

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18 hours ago, Illyrio Mo'Parties said:

Gross.

And may I say that I am absolutely shocked - shocked! - that two perverts would appear to be fans of anime and My Little Pony.

Do you see my purple eyes? Pure Valyrian, my friend. For me it's okay.

I won't come to those parties at your manse anymore.

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The Old Blood envisions Volantis as the true heir of Vayria so incest might be practised (Incest = siblings getting married. Uncle/niece marriage and first cousin marriage is not considered incest) but not always because it would he been mentioned in Dance/a World of Ice and Fire. The religion in Volantis (old gods ofValyria/Red God) seems to be not as strict as the Faith of the Seven. 

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On 27.8.2016 at 0:47 PM, JWittoBeast said:

I don't think so, at least not past first cousin incest.

Volantis is supposedly the largest city in terms of population, so I think there should be a big enough gene pool so that the "Old Valyria Families" can sire children exclusively within themselves, without producing sister-brother inbreds like Aerys II.

There was such a gene pool in Old Valyria. 40 dragonrider families, and a minimum of 300 dragonriders riding against Garin - they could have practiced family exogamy and marry someone of the other 39 dragonrider families each time.

Yet Valyrians were noted for practicing incest by choice.

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Incest did happen in Volantis as a way to keep the dragon blood "pure", as other posters have pointed out. But it created terrible problems and eventually led to the near demise of the Targ dynasty, therefore, it would have ended the elite in Volantis as it did in Westeros. It just happened quicker in Westeros because of a infinitely smaller Valyrian gene pool for them to chose from.

It does go beyond just brother to sister, and it is considered vile and monstrous in both the old gods and the new. We have multiple examples of how incest creates monsters from Craster to Cersei and "former" Jaime to Lysa. Ygritte even warns against it and she is a "savage".

The quote below from Catelyn mentions how the practice of incest is, in truth, ungodly. George has done a pretty good job of showing us how incest in this world is set up as a "bad" element and leads to demise, not matter which continent.

  • The World of Ice and Fire - The Targaryen Kings: Aenys I

The tradition amongst the Targaryens had always been to marry kin to kin. Wedding brother to sister was thought to be ideal. Failing that, a girl might wed an uncle, a cousin, or a nephew; a boy, a cousin, aunt, or niece. This practice went back to Old Valyria, where it was common amongst many of the ancient families, particularly those who bred and rode dragons. "The blood of the dragon must remain pure," the wisdom went. Some of the sorcerer princes also took more than one wife when it pleased them, though this was less common than incestuous marriage. In Valryia before the Doom, wise men wrote, a thousand gods were honored, but none were feared, so few dared to speak against these customs.
This was not true in Westeros, where the power of the Faith went unquestioned. Incest was denounced as vile sin, whether between father and daughter, mother and son, or brother and sister, and the fruits of such unions were considered abominations in the sight of gods and men. With hindsight, it can be seen that conflict between the Faith and House Targaryen was inevitable.
 
  • A Clash of Kings - Catelyn IV

    "Does Cersei pray to you too, my lady?" Catelyn asked the Mother. She could see the proud, cold, lovely features of the Lannister queen etched upon the wall. The crack was still there; even Cersei could weep for her children. "Each of the Seven embodies all of the Seven," Septon Osmynd had told her once. There was as much beauty in the Crone as in the Maiden, and the Mother could be fiercer than the Warrior when her children were in danger. Yes . . .
    She had seen enough of Robert Baratheon at Winterfell to know that the king did not regard Joffrey with any great warmth. If the boy was truly Jaime's seed, Robert would have put him to death along with his mother, and few would have condemned him. Bastards were common enough, but incest was a monstrous sin to both old gods and new, and the children of such wickedness were named abominations in sept and godswood alike. The dragon kings had wed brother to sister, but they were the blood of old Valyria where such practices had been common, and like their dragons the Targaryens answered to neither gods nor men.
 
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On 8/27/2016 at 11:02 AM, Illyrio Mo'Parties said:

Gross.

And may I say that I am absolutely shocked - shocked! - that two perverts would appear to be fans of anime and My Little Pony.

hahahaaa! Thanks for the laugh today! :lol:

11 hours ago, Scootaloo Stark said:

Do you see my purple eyes? Pure Valyrian, my friend. For me it's okay.

I won't come to those parties at your manse anymore.

:cheers: cheers for being a good sport at the joke and even playing along. (I wish more posters did this)

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On 8/28/2016 at 1:02 AM, Illyrio Mo'Parties said:

Gross.

And may I say that I am absolutely shocked - shocked! - that two perverts would appear to be fans of anime and My Little Pony.

Don't be so tsundere Illyrio-sama!

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