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D&D reveal: Jon will face "selfish individuals" and overcome "dishonorable enemies" in s7


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JON SNOW

Benioff & Weiss: Jon’s honorable nature has proven a disadvantage in some regards: a man who plays by the rules will have a harder time defeating men and women who don’t. But Jon’s nature also provides one of his great strengths: his ability to win others to his cause. Men who respected his courage and honesty elected him Lord Commander of the Night’s Watch. The Free Folk, who had never before aligned themselves with kneelers, chose to fight for Jon Snow because they believed in him. The lords of the north named him King in the North because they realized he was their last, best chance to survive the wars to come.

The question will be whether an honorable man can overcome dishonorable enemies. As E.O. Wilson wrote, “Within a group, selfish individuals always win. But in contests between groups, groups of altruists always beat groups of selfish individuals.” So Jon Snow better hope this is a contest between groups.

 


- http://deadline.com/2016/08/game-of-thrones-david-benioff-d-b-weiss-emmys-interview-1201803698/

 

Who are the groups of selfish individuals?

Who will Jon win over to his cause to help overcome selfish individuals? He has the Wildlings and now the Northern Lords. 

Perhaps there is a group moving North that need winning over and have a common cause with Jon? 

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I just saw this interview  

  “I think it’s going to get very bleak before if there is a happy ending. If there’s any sort of win or heroic moment for Jon and everyone else. I think it’s going to get very dark before it gets better. I think what we might see this season is those White Walkers and that Army of the Dead really come into force. So that’s going to be exciting to see. I don’t know what it means. I think with the whole “winter is finally here” business, it means everyone is going to have a really bad time.”

He then revealed what he feels about the end of Game of Thrones. “It has been in my consciousness a lot,” he said. “This mammoth, goliath event in my life, which has so much of what my 20s are, is going to come to an end. I think I’m going to really make the effort in these next two years to enjoy every moment of it, because I don’t know when I’ll get something like this coming around again.” 


 I'm afraid for jon.This season white walkers will overcome the wall.Until I read this interview I thought we are gonna watch jon vs sansa.

Brotherhood without banners moving north.Maybe Dany can come

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Interesting choice of words: "defeating men and women who don’t". Why not just say "others who don't"? There's like two women in Winterfell right now, and I doubt Lyanna Mormont is going to oppose Jon. That leaves one woman. I was on the edge about the whole Jon vs Sansa thing before, but now it seems very likely to happen. I can't see any other "group of selfish individuals" who would be Jon's "enemies" revolving the northern storyline, other than Littlefinger/Sansa(/the knights of the Vale, maybe). It can't be the northern lords or the wildlings, since Jon just united them, and both groups also declared for Jon. And even if the lords and the wildlings don't get along or fight, they would be each others enemies, not Jon's.

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No, Littlefinger and Sansa will die. Jon already died, his second death just a season after his first one would be anticlimactic and bad writing. He's the endgame character (unlike Sansa and LF), he will absolutely reach the series finale. And if he dies it will be in a blaze of glory against WWs.

@GhostNymeria They are definitely setting Sansa up as an antagonist.  We're now left with Cersei, LF, Euron and WWs (endgame villains, so s8 material). In the South it will be Cersei and Euron vs Daenerys and in the North Jon vs Sansa and Littlefinger. Cersei/Euron/Sansa/Littlefinger = selfish individuals. Although Dany can be quite selfish too, just not to that extent.

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17 minutes ago, GhostNymeria said:

Interesting choice of words: "defeating men and women who don’t". Why not just say "others who don't"? There's like two women in Winterfell right now, and I doubt Lyanna Mormont is going to oppose Jon. That leaves one woman. I was on the edge about the whole Jon vs Sansa thing before, but now it seems very likely to happen. I can't see any other "group of selfish individuals" who would be Jon's "enemies" revolving the northern storyline, other than Littlefinger/Sansa(/the knights of the Vale, maybe). It can't be the northern lords or the wildlings, since Jon just united them, and both groups also declared for Jon. And even if the lords and the wildlings don't get along or fight, they would be each others enemies, not Jon's.

I think Jon is going to win over the Brotherhood and they will take up Stark banners. Beric might die in some heroic fashion and reveal something important. 

It's also interesting that Sophie said again that Sansa has 2 options really: Go off with LF, his ambitions and become sadistic or team up with Jon - who she does not respect for the reasons D&D point out in this Deadline iterview. Jon plays by the rules and is honorable - he lacks that ability to see deception and people's true intentions - but he has a sister who can and she is coming home. We have the Hound who knows LF's culpability in Ned's arrest. They randomly had LF show up in a scene with Arya at Harrenhal - she would not have forgotten his dealings with Tywin Lannister against Robb. 

 

Holy BALLS! 

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4 minutes ago, khal drogon said:

So this means no Jon preparing for the Others but stupid fights with Sansa and Littlefinger. 

He could be preparing and that could be another reason why his focus is not on threats and betrayals within. Bran will reach him somehow and reveal his parentage and allying with Dany once she destroys Cersei. With Beric arriving and his awakening to the WW threat that will definitely be a focus. They need to give Sansa something to do since they took her out of her Vale plot. 

 

LF will fail but he always has a plan b c d and e. He will either flee and save himself or take Sansa and the Vale army with him. 

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31 minutes ago, DutchArya said:

I think Jon is going to win over the Brotherhood and they will take up Stark banners. Beric might die in some heroic fashion and reveal something important. 

It's also interesting that Sophie said again that Sansa has 2 options really: Go off with LF, his ambitions and become sadistic or team up with Jon - who she does not respect for the reasons D&D point out in this Deadline iterview. Jon plays by the rules and is honorable - he lacks that ability to see deception and people's true intentions - but he has a sister who can and she is coming home. We have the Hound who knows LF's culpability in Ned's arrest. They randomly had LF show up in a scene with Arya at Harrenhal - she would not have forgotten his dealings with Tywin Lannister against Robb. 

 

Holy BALLS! 

I agree, it's pretty inevitable that the Brotherhood will take up Stark banners if they're going to fight the WW. There's nothing else for them to do in the north. Maybe Jon will win over Sweetrobin and the knights of the Vale as well. I know Lord Royce declared for Jon, but technically it's still the lord of the Eyrie who should make that decision, and we know Littlefinger has him wrapped around his finger:)

And I can't wait for Arya to get back in the main game again. Especially with Jon as king.

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1 minute ago, DutchArya said:

He could be preparing and that could be another reason why his focus is not on threats and betrayals within. Bran will reach him somehow and reveal his parentage and allying with Dany once she destroys Cersei. With Beric arriving and his awakening to the WW threat that will definitely be a focus. They need to give Sansa something to do since they took her out of her Vale plot. 

 

LF will fail but he always has a plan b c d and e. He will either flee and save himself or take Sansa and the Vale army with him. 

Probably. I have a lot of confusion regarding the vale army. Who will they support now? LF who has their lord in his pocket or Lord Royce? While lord Royce declared the support of Vale for Jon though it was against the wish of LF does that mean LF do not have much influence over the Vale knights? Maybe his only hope is Sansa taking his side. That could only be bad for Sansa. Maybe that's where Sandor will come into picture. 

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14 minutes ago, DutchArya said:

They need to give Sansa something to do since they took her out of her Vale plot. 

Sorry to go a little off topic, but I think D&D made the decision to completely change Sansa's plot, when they decided to not include fAegon. It's logical that book Sansa and Littlefinger's political game will involve fAegon when he becomes king. I'm thinking that the book version of Sansa's "betrayal" will be her backing fAegon as king over the seven kingdoms, over Jon as the KitN and an independent north. Or something along those lines.

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44 minutes ago, DutchArya said:

They need to give Sansa something to do since they took her out of her Vale plot.

I don't think that this storyline is Vale replacement. I think this is more or less where Sansa is going to wind up in the books once she leaves the Vale: North with LF, with Jon named KITN (and having been disinherited). (I think the "something to do since they took her out of the Vale plot" was the Bolton marriage and her subsequent escape.)

6x10 put us firmly, I think, in advanced TWOW territory: Cersei having disposed of her enemies in KL, Dany and Tyrion heading back to Westeros, Arya back in Westeros, Stark supporters having reclaimed Winterfell and ousted the Boltons, Jon assuming leadership in the North, etc. Since they keep all the storylines roughly aligned with each other, that means Sansa's storyline would also have to be in advanced TWOW territory.

The other thing is that there will be a need to stall in the North storyline until everyone is in the right place where they need to be--narrative-wise--for the Wall to fall and the WW invasion to begin in earnest. I'm guessing that means that Jon needs a plot to keep him occupied while Dany deals with Cersei and makes her way north. Thus this Jon vs. Sansa business.

Quote

Sorry to go a little off topic, but I think D&D made the decision to completely change Sansa's plot, when they decided to not include fAegon. It's logical that book Sansa and Littlefinger's political game will involve fAegon when he becomes king.

I think Aegon is going to be tied up in the Dorne storyline, not Sansa's (although we won't know for sure until TWOW is published). D&D were apparently going to cut the Dorne storyline (post-Oberyn's death) entirely, until Bryan Cogman convinced them to throw it in to give something Jaime to do in Season 5. To me, that suggests that once they decided to get rid of Aegon, the entire Dorne storyline was supposed to go with him.

I think Sansa is as of the end of Season 6 where she's going to end up in the books, even if she arrived in a very different way than she will in the books.

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2 hours ago, NutBurz said:

Selfish = Sansa

Dishonorable = Littlefinger

 

(:

 

Jon will die again.

You think Jon will die? On his own he might just like D&D said at the end of the quote. However, of he continues to win groups to his side, the selfish individuals will fail, possibility survive some way, but Jon won't die that way.  Not after bring betrayed before. 

 

46 minutes ago, Newstar said:

I don't think that this storyline is Vale replacement. I think this is more or less where Sansa is going to wind up in the books once she leaves the Vale: North with LF, with Jon named KITN (and having been disinherited). (I think the "something to do since they took her out of the Vale plot" was the Bolton marriage and her subsequent escape.)

6x10 put us firmly, I think, in advanced TWOW territory: Cersei having disposed of her enemies in KL, Dany and Tyrion heading back to Westeros, Arya back in Westeros, Stark supporters having reclaimed Winterfell and ousted the Boltons, Jon assuming leadership in the North, etc. Since they keep all the storylines roughly aligned with each other, that means Sansa's storyline would also have to be in advanced TWOW territory.

The other thing is that there will be a need to stall in the North storyline until everyone is in the right place where they need to be--narrative-wise--for the Wall to fall and the WW invasion to begin in earnest. I'm guessing that means that Jon needs a plot to keep him occupied while Dany deals with Cersei and makes her way north. Thus this Jon vs. Sansa business.

I think Aegon is going to be tied up in the Dorne storyline, not Sansa's (although we won't know for sure until TWOW is published). D&D were apparently going to cut the Dorne storyline (post-Oberyn's death) entirely, until Bryan Cogman convinced them to throw it in to give something Jaime to do in Season 5. To me, that suggests that once they decided to get rid of Aegon, the entire Dorne storyline was supposed to go with him.

I think Sansa is as of the end of Season 6 where she's going to end up in the books, even if she arrived in a very different way than she will in the books.

How do you think the betrayals will come to pass? How far will the Boss Bitch and her former Pimp go? They are so clever. 

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I don't buy that Sansa is the great big enemy of season 7.

I love her, but she would lose and probably not even in style. 

Littlefinger was her protector in a large way, but she has an increased level of self-awareness. She seems to have come to the conclusion that she is safer off of thrones. Its a card from Tywin's deck. Close enough to influence, but far enough to ensure her safety. Sansas best position is the one that she has now. It can not get better for her. And she knows this. 

If a betrayal does come from Sansa (inadvertantly, like always - neds death, joffreys death etc), perhaps Brienne via Sansa will "betray" Jon. We know Brienne digs Jamie. And we know Jamie is not beyond using it, if it meant protecting Cersei or Tyrion. 

There is so much more that the story is hinting at in terms of enemies.

George is very clear that his story is not about the good guys getting together to get the bad guy.

The white walkers, i think, provide an opportunity for Jon to widen his inner circle. There would.be more scope for "betrayers" and it would be more worthy of the story.

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30 minutes ago, DutchArya said:

You think Jon will die? On his own he might just like D&D said at the end of the quote. However, of he continues to win groups to his side, the selfish individuals will fail, possibility survive some way, but Jon won't die that way.  Not after bring betrayed before. 

I´m fairly certain Jon will die in what his fans will believe to be a disappointing manner. I´m also fairly certain Sansa will both betray and outlive him.

I agree that if Jon continues to win groups to his side, he would prevail, and the story could even have a happy ending. I just don´t think he will manage to. He is too obsessed (not without reason) with things that won´t be palpable to most people until it´s too late. He too aware of what´s up to understand how people who don´t know what´s up think.

 

I find it likely that he will eventually want to join Dany, because he sees how that´s the best plan for team human, while most of his people won´t be ok with that. If he doesn´t die soon after the Wall collapse.

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