MIA Dragons Post DotD

[Oracle.Clear.Rivers]

After the Dance of the Dragons, only one dragon survived but vanished - Cannibal. What do you think happened to him? Do you think he's still alive? How long do dragons live anyway in ASoIaF? Balerion lived until 200 but he was raised in captivity. Maybe dragons could live further than that if they lived in the wilderness? They can hunt and hide well if Drogon was anything to go by and he's young. 

So if Cannibal is still alive, Drogon, Rhaegal, and Viserion could be in danger once Daenerys sails to Westeros. He likes eating younger dragons after all.

Wait, Sheepstealer is also unaccounted for. So that's two dragons potentially still alive and perhaps lurking around Westeros or somewhere else.

[Dorian Martell]

Sheepstealer and Nettles flew to the vale where they took sacrifices from the mountain folk who would later become the burned men. Cannibal is probably dead by now 

[Lurid Jester]

The fact that magic has returned, or at the very least becomes much more potent, with the birth of Dany's Dragons seems to indicate that those missing dragons were long dead.  

I honestly hope that GRRM doesn't pull any full grown dragons out of a hat in the next two books. Would feel too much like a deus ex machina.  

[Lord Varys]

4 minutes ago, Lurid Jester said:

The fact that magic has returned, or at the very least becomes much more potent, with the birth of Dany's Dragons seems to indicate that those missing dragons were long dead.

The Cannibal could lay dormant or in stasis/hibernation in his collapsed lair on Dragonstone, though. Dragonstone was introduced as this ominous, dreadful place back in the Prologue of ACoK but George never delivered on that. He might have plans to do it in the future.

4 minutes ago, Lurid Jester said:

I honestly hope that GRRM doesn't pull any full grown dragons out of a hat in the next two books. Would feel too much like a deus ex machina.  

In principle I agree. However, it is very odd to introduce a dragon as large and dangerous as the Cannibal and then make no use of him in the story of the Dance. We all expected that somebody would claim the Cannibal after the end of TPatQ and that it would prove crucial in the downfall of Aegon II. Yet nothing of this sort happened. The dragon just disappeared. A beast of that size does not disappear into thin air, though, and if a dragonslayer had killed it the carcass would have been found.

Sheepstealer disappeared with Nettles into the Mountains of the Moon and most likely died there. Silverwing has a story of her own but she, too, was dead in 153 AC when the last Targaryen dragon died as was Rhaena's Morning and any other dragon that might have hatched in 131-153 AC.

But the fate of the Cannibal is really odd.

[Lurid Jester]

@Lord Varys  I just have a hard time believing that in all those years someone wouldn't have stumbled across a huge sleeping/dormant dragon on Dragonstone.  

Then again, just because Cannibal is dead doesn't mean he can't make an appearance.  Who's to say the Night's King won't ride into battle upon an undead dragon renowned for eating other dragons?  

[Free Northman Reborn]

Well, as I have said before, I favor Skagos ("Stone" in the Old Tongue) as Cannibal's resting place, from where Jon will awaken him. I give it about a 50% chance of happening.

Leaving an opposing 50% chance that Cannibal will never appear in the books at all, having died sometime after the Dance of the Dragons instead.
 

[Lord Varys]

1 minute ago, Lurid Jester said:

@Lord Varys  I just have a hard time believing that in all those years someone wouldn't have stumbled across a huge sleeping/dormant dragon on Dragonstone.  

Then again, just because Cannibal is dead doesn't mean he can't make an appearance.  Who's to say the Night's King won't ride into battle upon an undead dragon renowned for eating other dragons?  

If the cave he lived in collapsed that certainly would be a possibility. Keep in mind that the Dragonmount is a volcano. Lava could have covered the entrance, too, and prevented anyone from getting inside. But then, nobody would have been all that keen to search for the Cannibal. People knew where he had his abode and stayed well away from that place.

Pretty sure there is no Night's King in the books but a undead or ice dragon is an interesting notion. However, I see no reason why the Cannibal should have flown beyond the Wall. But there might very well be ancient dragon carcasses beyond the Wall the Others might rise.

[Free Northman Reborn]

12 minutes ago, Lord Varys said:

If the cave he lived in collapsed that certainly would be a possibility. Keep in mind that the Dragonmount is a volcano. Lava could have covered the entrance, too, and prevented anyone from getting inside. But then, nobody would have been all that keen to search for the Cannibal. People knew where he had his abode and stayed well away from that place.

Pretty sure there is no Night's King in the books but a undead or ice dragon is an interesting notion. However, I see no reason why the Cannibal should have flown beyond the Wall. But there might very well be ancient dragon carcasses beyond the Wall the Others might rise.

Dragons were killed by volcanic eruptions and hot flying rocks in their hundreds, maybe thousands, during the Doom of Valyria. Cannibal would be as subject to being crushed by a rock fall, or suffocated inside a collapsed cave, or dying of hunger as any other living creature. If he survived to the present day, it would be because of some kind of magical hibernation or preservation spell. Of the type that we know is woven into the Wall, having extended Aemon's life as an example.

Anyway, if he is still alive, I doubt it is because he just decided to go to sleep in his cave on Dragonstone after it collapsed on top of him.

[Lurid Jester]

8 minutes ago, Lord Varys said:

Pretty sure there is no Night's King in the books but a undead or ice dragon is an interesting notion. However, I see no reason why the Cannibal should have flown beyond the Wall. But there might very well be ancient dragon carcasses beyond the Wall the Others might rise.

Probably right, but I like the sound of Night's King better than "whatever or whomever leads the Others".   It's also more efficient.

@Free Northman Reborn  two books isn't much time to introduce the idea of a dragon for Jon to awaken, much less follow through with the whole process. 

[Dorian Martell]

13 minutes ago, Free Northman Reborn said:

Well, as I have said before, I favor Skagos ("Stone" in the Old Tongue) as Cannibal's resting place, from where Jon will awaken him. I give it about a 50% chance of happening.

Leaving an opposing 50% chance that Cannibal will never appear in the books at all, having died sometime after the Dance of the Dragons instead.
 

the whole point of Dany hatching the three eggs is that there were no dragons on planetos. Her dragons are the first in centuries. Having one "sleeping" somewhere negates a primary premise of the story

[Oracle.Clear.Rivers]

26 minutes ago, Lord Varys said:

The Cannibal could lay dormant or in stasis/hibernation in his collapsed lair on Dragonstone, though. Dragonstone was introduced as this ominous, dreadful place back in the Prologue of ACoK but George never delivered on that. He might have plans to do it in the future.

Oh... shit. I never thought of Dragonstone. Remember how Shireen often dreams about getting eaten by a dragon? That might be related to Cannibal.

 

41 minutes ago, Lurid Jester said:

I honestly hope that GRRM doesn't pull any full grown dragons out of a hat in the next two books. Would feel too much like a deus ex machina.  

I don't see it as a deus ex machina. It would be more of a complication especially if it's Cannibal. He's wild. No one tamed him even in TPaTQ. He could kill or severely injure Dany's dragons and then cause further havoc in the mess that Westeros is already in. That wouldn't save anyone as much as potentially kill everyone.

 

32 minutes ago, Lord Varys said:

Sheepstealer disappeared with Nettles into the Mountains of the Moon and most likely died there. Silverwing has a story of her own but she, too, was dead in 153 AC when the last Targaryen dragon died as was Rhaena's Morning and any other dragon that might have hatched in 131-153 AC.

But the fate of the Cannibal is really odd.

Well, that was underwhelming for Sheepstealer but Cannibal is truly odd. His disappearance is very ominous too at TPaTQ. It would be such a waste if nothing happened to it.

 

13 minutes ago, Lord Varys said:

If the cave he lived in collapsed that certainly would be a possibility. Keep in mind that the Dragonmount is a volcano. Lava could have covered the entrance, too, and prevented anyone from getting inside. But then, nobody would have been all that keen to search for the Cannibal. People knew where he had his abode and stayed well away from that place.

Pretty sure there is no Night's King in the books but a undead or ice dragon is an interesting notion. However, I see no reason why the Cannibal should have flown beyond the Wall. But there might very well be ancient dragon carcasses beyond the Wall the Others might rise.

You raise very good points @Lord Varys. I just can't imagine the horror though for the people at Westeros if not only do Dany's 3 dragons showed up but Cannibal and Ice Dragons as well. It would seem like the world would be ending then... Hmmm... maybe that's the "Song of Ice and Fire"? Creatures of Fire VS Ice and not a savior born from Ice and Fire as we all have thought?

[Lurid Jester]

5 minutes ago, Oracle.Clear.Rivers said:

I don't see it as a deus ex machina. It would be more of a complication especially if it's Cannibal. He's wild. No one tamed him even in TPaTQ. He could kill or severely injure Dany's dragons and then cause further havoc in the mess that Westeros is already in. That wouldn't save anyone as much as potentially kill everyone.

Again, two more books.  That is a LOT of plot to introduce in a very short amount of time.  End result would be, for a vast majority of readers, a new dragon coming out of no where. It would feel extremely cheap and Saturday morning cartoony. 

There really needs to be more hints that a fourth dragon exists WITHIN the ASoIaF books themselves and not just ancillary stories.  

[Lord Varys]

14 minutes ago, Free Northman Reborn said:

Dragons were killed by volcanic eruptions and hot flying rocks in their hundreds, maybe thousands, during the Doom of Valyria.

Well, that was the Doom. The Doom was pretty hot. But old dragons have strong armor and can withstand temperatures younger dragons can't. A little brush with lava shouldn't kill such a creature. I didn't suggests that there was a major eruption of the Dragonmount. That would have destroyed the citadel of Dragonstone and the island, after all.

14 minutes ago, Free Northman Reborn said:

Cannibal would be as subject to being crushed by a rock fall, or suffocated inside a collapsed cave, or dying of hunger as any other living creature. If he survived to the present day, it would be because of some kind of magical hibernation or preservation spell.

Not necessarily. Dragons are magical creatures. We don't know what they can sustain or survive or what they can do in this or that situation. Perhaps the Cannibal just migrated further and further into the Dragonmount in search of more food and closeness to the inner heat of the earth sustained him? We don't know anything about dragon biology.

12 minutes ago, Oracle.Clear.Rivers said:

Oh... shit. I never thought of Dragonstone. Remember how Shireen often dreams about getting eaten by a dragon? That might be related to Cannibal.

I don't think Shireen will be involved in that now considering that she is far away but Loras is on Dragonstone right now and perhaps something is going to happen there in the future.

12 minutes ago, Oracle.Clear.Rivers said:

Well, that was underwhelming for Sheepstealer but Cannibal is truly odd. His disappearance is very ominous too at TPaTQ. It would be such a waste if nothing happened to it.

Yeah. One wonders why the hell George even bothered to introduce that dragon. He didn't have to.

12 minutes ago, Oracle.Clear.Rivers said:

You raise very good points @Lord Varys. I just can't imagine the horror though for the people at Westeros if not only do Dany's 3 dragons showed up but Cannibal and Ice Dragons as well. It would seem like the world would be ending then... Hmmm... maybe that's the "Song of Ice and Fire"? Creatures of Fire VS Ice and not a savior born from Ice and Fire as we all have thought?

If Aegon claimed the Cannibal he could become a really powerful threat to all his enemies. Not to mention that a completely black dragon might suit a descendant of Daemon Blackfyre.

Corpse dragons/ice dragons would make great enemies during the final battles for our hero dragonriders.

[Free Northman Reborn]

22 minutes ago, Lord Varys said:

Well, that was the Doom. The Doom was pretty hot. But old dragons have strong armor and can withstand temperatures younger dragons can't. A little brush with lava shouldn't kill such a creature. I didn't suggests that there was a major eruption of the Dragonmount. That would have destroyed the citadel of Dragonstone and the island, after all.

Not necessarily. Dragons are magical creatures. We don't know what they can sustain or survive or what they can do in this or that situation. Perhaps the Cannibal just migrated further and further into the Dragonmount in search of more food and closeness to the inner heat of the earth sustained him? We don't know anything about dragon biology.

I don't think Shireen will be involved in that now considering that she is far away but Loras is on Dragonstone right now and perhaps something is going to happen there in the future.

Yeah. One wonders why the hell George even bothered to introduce that dragon. He didn't have to.

If Aegon claimed the Cannibal he could become a really powerful threat to all his enemies. Not to mention that a completely black dragon might suit a descendant of Daemon Blackfyre.

Corpse dragons/ice dragons would make great enemies during the final battles for our hero dragonriders.

An interesting aspect is the tantalizing rumour that Cannibal predated the Targaryen arrival on Dragonstone. That would suggest that an already grown Cannibal - already grown in order to be identifiable as the same adult black dragon from the era of the Dance of the Dragons - was present on Dragonstone prior to 114BC. Meaning that about 250 years before the Dance of the Dragons, he was already an adult dragon.

Conceivably making him around 270 years or therebouts by the time of the Dance of the Dragons (if we assume that it takes a Dragon around 20 years to reach adulthood). That would already make him way older than Balerion was at his death. Implying that Cannibal already had something special about him that extended his longevity, even back then.

The only hint of an explanation we have in the text, is his habit of devouring other dragons' young, resulting in his name "Cannibal". Which in turn immediately evokes ideas of "only life can pay for life", and the intrinsic nature of blood magic, where the life force of one creature is sacrificed to prolong/return the life of another.

So it is certainly plausible that Cannibal somehow stumbled onto a natural form of blood magic - perhaps linked to the magical way in which Dragons were inititally created - whereby he could prolong his life by absorbing the life force of newborn Dragons. Intriguing idea, which I would love George to explore further.

Rather than a "Cannibal", he would then be more akin to a "Vampire" Dragon.

[ShadowCat Rivers]

That's perhaps too meta of an answer, but I think that narrative elements used in the main series should be able to "stand alone" - meaning, I ask myself: if no other novel of the asoiaf universe was published, how would I feel about an all grown up dragon comming into the story out of the blue? most likely, I wouldn't like it, and I think most readers wouldn't either.

I believe there should have been clues in the books by now, if an older dragon had survived and was to play any role.

[Oracle.Clear.Rivers]

31 minutes ago, Lurid Jester said:

Again, two more books.  That is a LOT of plot to introduce in a very short amount of time.  End result would be, for a vast majority of readers, a new dragon coming out of no where. It would feel extremely cheap and Saturday morning cartoony. 

Good point. I understand even if I don't agree with it. I think it would be exciting and a neat way of connecting TPaTQ novella to the main books again but that's just my preference. That story is a personal favorite so I'm a bit biased for wanting a Cannibal return/cameo.

Still can't deny the mystery though. What happened to him after the civil war? Where did he go? Where would his carcass be if he's dead? That dragon has a lot of loose ends.

26 minutes ago, Lord Varys said:

If Aegon claimed the Cannibal he could become a really powerful threat to all his enemies. Not to mention that a completely black dragon might suit a descendant of Daemon Blackfyre.

Corpse dragons/ice dragons would make great enemies during the final battles for our hero dragonriders.

So, a Second Dance of Dragons just upped to eleven. People of Westeros should begin moving to Essos if they want a higher percentage of survival.

Aegon for Cannibal? That would actually make sense. He's a bit of a black sheep among the dragons since he eats other dragons. He would be a good match to an heir of a cadet/bastard line of the Targaryens - a dragon set on "eating" the other to thrive.

Since we're on the topic of dragons having a potential showdown in the skies of Westeros, wonder how Euron and his dragon horn would fit into it? I think the horn would be a deus ex machina if he manages to control everyone with it or maybe it won't work on ice dragons? Maybe Cannibal would be too wild to fall for its thrall or Dany's three dragons too connected with her to be affected by it. Didn't Euron have a dragon egg too or did he threw it away? I can't remember.

[Free Northman Reborn]

13 minutes ago, ShadowCat Rivers said:

That's perhaps too meta of an answer, but I think that narrative elements used in the main series should be able to "stand alone" - meaning, I ask myself: if no other novel of the asoiaf universe was published, how would I feel about an all grown up dragon comming into the story out of the blue? most likely, I wouldn't like it, and I think most readers wouldn't either.

I believe there should have been clues in the books by now, if an older dragon had survived and was to play any role.

That bothered me too initially, until I thought about how "suddenly" Martin introduced other major aspects of his story. Like Aegon, for example, who frankly arrived so late that one could recognize from the very start that he was a fake.

Same with Quentyn, Arriane and Doran, who all arrived only in Book 4 and now feel like they've always been part of the story. Not to mention Euron, who was barely mentioned before Book 4, and yet now is a major part of the latter part of the series.

Martin has no qualms about having new plot elements arrive rather late, and making them feel familiar after only three chapters. Asha only gets 3 POV chapters, if I recall correctly, and those only in Dance, but because they are spread across the entire Book 5, it feels like we have known her for ages.

I am one of those who have a far larger affinity to POV characters introducted in Book 1, and look with  some distaste at later additions being forced down our throats in the way that Jaime, Cersei, Theon etc. were. But if Martin can do it that late with some of the examples above, he can make the Cannibal's arrival in Book 6 or 7 work too.

 

 

[Little Scribe of Naath]

What if Cannibal has become an ice dragon in some manner?

It could fit in with a lot of theories on how Others are essentially humans transformed into some kind of immortal ice people. If it could happen to humans, what's to rule out dragons being transformed this way too?

I love Free Northman's idea that Cannibal is hanging around near Skagos/Cannibal Bay.

[Free Northman Reborn]

12 minutes ago, Oracle.Clear.Rivers said:

Aegon for Cannibal? That would actually make sense. He's a bit of a black sheep among the dragons since he eats other dragons. He would be a good match to an heir of a cadet/bastard line of the Targaryens - a dragon set on "eating" the other to thrive.

 

Aegon bonding the Cannibal is a non-starter for me. The Cannibal could not be mastered for centuries, despite countless attempts by real Targaryen descendants. Targaryen blood clearly does not work on him. So he most likely is not a Targaryen Dragon, but a Dragon from another bloodline.

Aegon the Conqueror himself would then not be able to master him. A different kind of magic will be needed for a rider of Cannibal. Maybe some kind of warging skill coupled with Dragonlord blood. Something which Jon alone in all the world has to offer. Maybe a Dragonhorn could work, I guess. But it seems unlikely to happen, with the Horn being in Slaver's Bay at the moment.

That's of course if Bran is not the one to master him, which I would not find implausible either. But a Blackfyre - who is merely a Targeryen with a different name? Not a chance.

[Runaway Penguin]

Maybe he is dead and is source of all the Dragonglass on Dragonstone?