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You are the king of Westeros, how would you decrease the power of the nobles and improve the lives of the people?


Marcus corvinus

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Westeros is heavily steeped in feudalism. The king himself is often at the mercy of powerful lords(Tywin, Mace) and merely acts as a mean for them to enforce their will legally. The people of westeros are heavily downtrodden thought it varies from place to place. 

In the north is full out tyrannical serfdom. Lords like Boltons kill, rape and mutilate their peasants at will. The umbers, the boltons and according to roose some other lords too perhaps practice the rite of first night. The only way there would be any peasants at all in the bolton and umber lands is if they were bound in servitude to the land.

While in Dorne i guess its much more relaxed. Due to their desert environment, free-sex culture, absence of agricultural society, Rhoynar roots and knack for guerrilla warfare i guess the people there are mostly freedmen with a choice of occupation. And plus the dornish lords especially the martells seem to be more caring of their people. Its hard to imagine the dornish lords surviving the targareyn conquest without the support of the common people.

But regardless overall the situation of the common people is bleak even in the warmest summers with the bulk of their hard earned crops going to the lords leaving them with no surplus. Now imagine you are the king on the iron throne and you wish to improve the lot of the people and decrease the power of the lords but without losing your throne i.e. causing too big of a rebellion. A limited rebellion can be dealt but entire continent scale revolts are impossible to suppress.

Here's some measures i would've taken:

1. Create an offer to the nobility. They are all obliged to provide military service to the crown. But instead of providing direct service and providing feudal levies which are damaging to the lords' estates, they can simply pay an annual lump sum instead. This would save them the effort and bloodshed and spare them the damage of removing farmers from the field into their armies. The prudent lords like tywin won't take this offer obviously and continue to opt for the old way but many lords are extremely debauched and comfort loving. Lords like Gyles rosby, manderly, tytos lannister would probably take it.

This would weaken the nobility as it would gradually erode their military capabilities and their martial culture and give me the money to maintain professional armies.

2. Give the lords a chance to elevate their serfs to freedmen. Serfs though are bound to the land enjoy some protection from their lords: food, shelter, care in old age, holidays etc. Free laborers have none of these. In fact they could be made to work more efficiently for less money. If some greedy lords take this choice they'll be freeing many from serfdom. Plus freedmen pay their share of taxes to the crown not the lord

3. Arrange for conquest and settlement of foreign lands like the disputed lands, the step stones or the andalos or flat lands. This will attract thousands of younger sons of the nobility to the foreign army. They'll seek to migrate en masse to the colonies to get their own lands. Thus removing thousands of troublesome knights, lordlings, black sheeps and lessening the potential army a rebellious lord may raise. 

This will also have the advantage of keeping population pressure low and a shortage of labor will create greater bargaining ability for the peasants/smallfolk and the lords will likely thank the king for such an arrangement.

4. Make it compulsory for the faith to educate the people. The faith owns vast lands and thousands of septs with educated septons. They're the most educated class in westeros, more so then the nobility. Make it compulsory for the septs in every village to teach the inhabitants how to read, write, count and basic history, law and philosophy.

5. Make a common codified written law for all of westeros and send it to all corners of the kingdom thus preventing lords from carrying out arbitrary punishments and rullings

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Do the same settlement programme a lot of kings did in Europe. Incentivize settlers to less populated regions. Found Crown cities, preferbaly with industrial or major trading background. Do this in less powerful regions where Lord Paramount cannot object too much (or is friendly). Get a Crown chokehold on major trade routes (esp. if local lords ignore them - Moat Cailin and southern end of the Neck causeway for example look like ideal Crown forts). Buy up strategic property where possible - or trade for counterservice. Say a Lady in position of Lady Hornwood may agree to establish a Crown garrison on her lands, if it meant safety from depredations of more powerful neighbors. 

All so acquired castles get Crown garrison and commander who might well be commoner - getting his title for merits. And title would not be tied to the given fort - you want your military commanders on rotation throughout the realm. Soldiers will get a plot of land, according to their rank, officers will get knighthood or better. 

Thus you will establish Crown army. Recruit volunteers both from the "smallfolk" and from lower gentry / second/third sons. Form expeditionary force that may "protect your interests" wherever needed. Heck, ofeer them in Essos as a hihghly skilled and reliable mercenaries, with caveat that they cannot be forced to fight against each other and that if needed they can be recalled. This way you get a cadre of experienced commanders. With good pay and perks, you will be building force loyal to the Crown, not to the feudal overlords. And the more feudals will despise them for low birth - the bigger loyalty to you . Of course you should take care to take enough lordlings on board to indoctrinate them (and, worst case, have hostages).

Basically build an absolutist monarchy by involving Crown in both central army and in economy. Once the lesser lords find that with industry and with Crown backing they can resist their overlords... and thus reduce their power. Smart overlords would get the idea and adapt, stupid ones will revolt and will be smashed.

 

But the bottom line is economic. Crown cities were an immense help for absolutist monarchs when they started breaking the feudal system - they provided weapons, including rare and expensive ones, they provided experts, they provided coin... And they liked to be under Crown protection.

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Oh, also: Fund bridges. Start trade cities at bridges. And Crown garrisons. Again, start with compliant lords (like Tullys).

 

And establish semaphore telegraph network. More reliable than ravens... And it would in a stroke limit power of lords, limit power of maesters, increase the pretext for Crown garrisons and spur technology development.

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On 8/24/2016 at 10:33 PM, Runaway Penguin said:

Do the same settlement programme a lot of kings did in Europe. Incentivize settlers to less populated regions. Found Crown cities, preferbaly with industrial or major trading background. Do this in less powerful regions where Lord Paramount cannot object too much (or is friendly). Get a Crown chokehold on major trade routes (esp. if local lords ignore them - Moat Cailin and southern end of the Neck causeway for example look like ideal Crown forts). Buy up strategic property where possible - or trade for counterservice. Say a Lady in position of Lady Hornwood may agree to establish a Crown garrison on her lands, if it meant safety from depredations of more powerful neighbors. 

All so acquired castles get Crown garrison and commander who might well be commoner - getting his title for merits. And title would not be tied to the given fort - you want your military commanders on rotation throughout the realm. Soldiers will get a plot of land, according to their rank, officers will get knighthood or better. 

Thus you will establish Crown army. Recruit volunteers both from the "smallfolk" and from lower gentry / second/third sons. Form expeditionary force that may "protect your interests" wherever needed. Heck, ofeer them in Essos as a hihghly skilled and reliable mercenaries, with caveat that they cannot be forced to fight against each other and that if needed they can be recalled. This way you get a cadre of experienced commanders. With good pay and perks, you will be building force loyal to the Crown, not to the feudal overlords. And the more feudals will despise them for low birth - the bigger loyalty to you . Of course you should take care to take enough lordlings on board to indoctrinate them (and, worst case, have hostages).

Basically build an absolutist monarchy by involving Crown in both central army and in economy. Once the lesser lords find that with industry and with Crown backing they can resist their overlords... and thus reduce their power. Smart overlords would get the idea and adapt, stupid ones will revolt and will be smashed.

 

But the bottom line is economic. Crown cities were an immense help for absolutist monarchs when they started breaking the feudal system - they provided weapons, including rare and expensive ones, they provided experts, they provided coin... And they liked to be under Crown protection.

There is some historical precedence for this, but it is however in the 18th century, in the gunpowder age/age of enlightenment. The German states essentially used to rent their young able bodied men to the british army. This is where the notorious '' Hessian regiments '' originate from. In return for THEIR service the german princes got money from the British.

This might not work in a medieval setting where soldiery is a matter of great skill in swordsmanship, archery, horsemanship etc. It takes years and years of training and lots of money to train and more importantly adequately equip a soldier. Thus common born men are not that viable as it would be too expensive. But some free cities might take westerosi common men to train as soldiers regardless, since these men are less likely to revolt than slaves or citizen armies.

Furthermore its actually dangerous to send these men to essos. They could simply take the crown's money and become mercenaries for hire in the east. Or worse they could unite under some warlord knight and carve out their own free kingdom in the east. An outer heaven.

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I'd decree that all children must go to school and I'd finance the Citadel to build a proper schoolsystem. After that, I think social reforms will be taken if not given (pitchforks and guillotines etc).

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20 minutes ago, Marcus corvinus said:

There is some historical precedence for this, but it is however in the 18th century, in the gunpowder age/age of enlightenment. The German states essentially used to rent their young able bodied men to the british army. This is where the notorious '' Hessian regiments '' originate from. In return for THEIR service the german princes got money from the British.

 

This is how Swiss mercenary phalanxes operaed. It predates gunpowder, though it is a principle city states (or... City based states) find easier to adopt. After all, even in British army infantry often recruited around big cities, ridding them of the dregs of society... And often when they returned, the returned older, orderly and all that. And those very good and lucky returned even with officer's sash.

It is completely viable in the late medieval/early renaissance setting of Westeros. 

 

As for carving out princedoms, there is alwas the threat - but then you get princedom with ties to Westeros so still could be an useful leverage. Plus... Without Westeros backing, it would become meat for whoever pays Golden Company enough, so any such attempt would be extremely risky. On the other hand you can institutionalize and establish The Honourable Essossi Company ;)

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3 hours ago, Runaway Penguin said:

This is how Swiss mercenary phalanxes operaed. It predates gunpowder, though it is a principle city states (or... City based states) find easier to adopt. After all, even in British army infantry often recruited around big cities, ridding them of the dregs of society... And often when they returned, the returned older, orderly and all that. And those very good and lucky returned even with officer's sash.

It is completely viable in the late medieval/early renaissance setting of Westeros. 

 

As for carving out princedoms, there is alwas the threat - but then you get princedom with ties to Westeros so still could be an useful leverage. Plus... Without Westeros backing, it would become meat for whoever pays Golden Company enough, so any such attempt would be extremely risky. On the other hand you can institutionalize and establish The Honourable Essossi Company ;)

The swiss pikemen for hire were well trained professionals. A novice couldn't stand in front a charging knight and keep his pants dry. And they were equipped by the rich free companies. In case of the crown, the expenses of arming them would fall on the king's lap.

 

Yes it could be useful leverage for the king, just as much as it could be for a rogue brother, uncle or cousin who's willing to offer your father in law's and his bannermen's lands, castles and gold to them. In fact as i think about it it would be more likely to be used by a rogue since this '' outer heaven '' originated as a rebellion against the king.

 

Why not just organize a crusade type event? just offer free lands and glory to anyone who partakes in the victorious colony wars. That was one of the main motives behind the crusades. There's no shortage of landless knights, brigands hungry for gold and glory and landless younger sons.

 

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I agree with a lot of the economic suggestions. For military might, the building blocks of a royal army and navy would be the existing goldcloaks and...royal navy.

I'd expand the goldcloak's number's steadily under the guise of simply better protecting Kingslanding. For example recruiting and equipting another 500 men a year (or whatever is achievable). I'd rotate men between patrolling/guard duty to actively drilling with pike and crossbow. So when there's 2500, each man spends 1 in 5 days drilling, then as that increases they spend more time drilling, example 4000 men, alternating between drilling for a week and patrolling for a week. I'd recruit hedge knights and second sons to form an officer corps.

Once the kingslanding garrison swells. I'd start expanding with garrisons within the Crownlands. Then along the King's road and at crossroads and bridges. I'd establish Royal messengers with changes of horses, as well as the semaphore system mentioned above. I'd start putting very small groups in big cities to protect royal tax collectors, then slowly expand their role in assisting the local lords and eventually equal or surpassing their city watch. Less savvy lords might appreciate having to pay for less city-watch.

With the navy I'd start training more sailors and rotating them with the ships while under pay. Sailors are cheaper to equip and so I could have a large reserve of them. When they aren't on ships I'd drill them for fighting and using crossbows, so my oarsmen/sailors are more effective than other fleets, able to support marines. I'd start building slowly as I can afford more ships and then start sending them to escort the tax collectors I mentioned back and forth with the taxes. In time I'd slowly build garrison of ships in those cities to patrol and enforce the Kings law. 

All of this would be a slow generational creeps. But with the ultimate goal of having men I can draw from in most regions to form an army to put down rebels in other regions.

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Goldcloaks TBH are not an army. I would not build on them - I would relegate them to the law and order forces and pull fighters out of their ranks (plus try to attract as many experienced commanders from elsewhere).

As for the loyalty of Crown army... In the era of beginning of absolutism in Europe (or Parliamentarism in the UK) there were not too many issues with loyalty. Especially if the army is based on Crown cities, their inhabitants know all too well that their privileges/securities rely on strong Crown. If moreover the Crown army is seen as an easy avenue of social climb... You won't have too many people willing to risk on behalf of nobles who look down on them ;)

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On 24/08/2016 at 2:51 PM, Marcus corvinus said:

Westeros is heavily steeped in feudalism. The king himself is often at the mercy of powerful lords(Tywin, Mace) and merely acts as a mean for them to enforce their will legally. The people of westeros are heavily downtrodden thought it varies from place to place. 

In the north is full out tyrannical serfdom. Lords like Boltons kill, rape and mutilate their peasants at will. The umbers, the boltons and according to roose some other lords too perhaps practice the rite of first night. The only way there would be any peasants at all in the bolton and umber lands is if they were bound in servitude to the land.

While in Dorne i guess its much more relaxed. Due to their desert environment, free-sex culture, absence of agricultural society, Rhoynar roots and knack for guerrilla warfare i guess the people there are mostly freedmen with a choice of occupation. And plus the dornish lords especially the martells seem to be more caring of their people. Its hard to imagine the dornish lords surviving the targareyn conquest without the support of the common people.

But regardless overall the situation of the common people is bleak even in the warmest summers with the bulk of their hard earned crops going to the lords leaving them with no surplus. Now imagine you are the king on the iron throne and you wish to improve the lot of the people and decrease the power of the lords but without losing your throne i.e. causing too big of a rebellion. A limited rebellion can be dealt but entire continent scale revolts are impossible to suppress.

Here's some measures i would've taken:

1. Create an offer to the nobility. They are all obliged to provide military service to the crown. But instead of providing direct service and providing feudal levies which are damaging to the lords' estates, they can simply pay an annual lump sum instead. This would save them the effort and bloodshed and spare them the damage of removing farmers from the field into their armies. The prudent lords like tywin won't take this offer obviously and continue to opt for the old way but many lords are extremely debauched and comfort loving. Lords like Gyles rosby, manderly, tytos lannister would probably take it.

This would weaken the nobility as it would gradually erode their military capabilities and their martial culture and give me the money to maintain professional armies.

2. Give the lords a chance to elevate their serfs to freedmen. Serfs though are bound to the land enjoy some protection from their lords: food, shelter, care in old age, holidays etc. Free laborers have none of these. In fact they could be made to work more efficiently for less money. If some greedy lords take this choice they'll be freeing many from serfdom. Plus freedmen pay their share of taxes to the crown not the lord

3. Arrange for conquest and settlement of foreign lands like the disputed lands, the step stones or the andalos or flat lands. This will attract thousands of younger sons of the nobility to the foreign army. They'll seek to migrate en masse to the colonies to get their own lands. Thus removing thousands of troublesome knights, lordlings, black sheeps and lessening the potential army a rebellious lord may raise. 

This will also have the advantage of keeping population pressure low and a shortage of labor will create greater bargaining ability for the peasants/smallfolk and the lords will likely thank the king for such an arrangement.

4. Make it compulsory for the faith to educate the people. The faith owns vast lands and thousands of septs with educated septons. They're the most educated class in westeros, more so then the nobility. Make it compulsory for the septs in every village to teach the inhabitants how to read, write, count and basic history, law and philosophy.

5. Make a common codified written law for all of westeros and send it to all corners of the kingdom thus preventing lords from carrying out arbitrary punishments and rullings

 

Mine would be hunting rights.

Lords like to have their forests to themselves, as such being a "poacher" didn't mean you were hunting endangered animals, rather you were just hunting.

As the first decree, mine would be to allow all smallfolk to hunt, but the Lords are allowed to limit it somewhat, such as when there are few animals left so the Lord temporary bans hunting in order for the wildlife to grow back.

 

I would also empathize religious freedom. I don't think religious freedom is a big issue in Westeros, but I would outlaw Followers of R'hllor acting on their belief that all of the other gods are false and they should be banned, and likewise I would prevent septs or Lords determining what the smallfolk can and can't believe in.

 

Finally, I would add somewhat of a "human rights charter". In Westeros, smallfolk are treated like animals, you kill them not a big deal. I wouldn't allow outright criminals like Gregor Clegane get away for killing and raping like that.

 

On a side note, I'd also make sure that Bannermen don't get too powerful, like what Tywin did.

 

 

EDIT: Also, I'd also establish a form of a "Crown" army. Instead of relying on bannermen to raise levies, the Crown would directly rule over an army from King's Landing.  This would prevent Bannermen from being all the power, and the Crown can use this army to crush rebellious and criminal bannermen. Like imagine if this crown army existed during the time when Ned Stark ordered the head of Ser Gregor Clegane.

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18 hours ago, Runaway Penguin said:

Goldcloaks TBH are not an army. I would not build on them - I would relegate them to the law and order forces and pull fighters out of their ranks (plus try to attract as many experienced commanders from elsewhere).

I agree they are not an army...at the moment. But the Goldcloaks as an instituition provide the smokescreen for building and training the a Royal Army until you have enough power it's obvious. All the changes you suggest are going to take time. Trying to openly build a large standing royal army is going to concern the nobles. But you can get away with expanding the Goldcloaks and Navy subtly.

Though now I think about it the original 2000 would have to certainly be reviewed, those decent enough for officer/sargents  brought together and those not so competent left on their original duties..

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The first step would be expanding goldcloaks as strictly law enforcement force - throughout the realm. As you expand the economy, have goldcloak garrisons at every toll station, every Crown bridge etc.

You need the economic might to start building Crown army. Until you get it, though, it is easy to secure Crown cities and outposts by offering command to landless/poor knights, or even to capable men at arms. "Join the garrison of new Crown mining city, get rich..."

 

The cities are the most important thing.

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