JWittoBeast Posted August 27, 2016 Share Posted August 27, 2016 Let's see. By going to Mole Town, you will Sleep with whores Spend some time ( a few hours to a night) away from your post Drink beer Look at the vows of the NW. "Father no children, take no wives" You certainly aren't marrying these prostitutes, as for no children, well what if you do it up the butt? "Live and die at my post" You could live in a city, but leave the city for a few hours but still live in that city. Going to unwind for a bit isn't exactly deserting, and the Lord Commanders know this because they don't really care, because at the end on the day the NW brothers are going to return to their posts. If I was lord commander, I would support this behaviour, since going to chill at Mole's Town helps with morale tremendously. That does bring up a good question though, where do the brothers of the NW go to fap? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beautiful Bloody Sword Posted August 27, 2016 Share Posted August 27, 2016 As you have explained, it really isn't, and it's most certainly managerially accepted for the reasons you offered. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Dew Posted August 27, 2016 Share Posted August 27, 2016 The oath of the NW gives a lot of leeway for its interpretation. <<I shall take no wife>>: Does not exclude fornication, because it could additionally say <<nor will I sleep with any woman>>. (In a close knit military society, of not a religious order, disallowing men to fornicate would have created more troubles rather than keeping the order and cohesion.) <<father no children>>: Sleeping with prostitutes of Mole's Town and actually impregnating one, due to their profession, it would be very difficult to prove that a potential offspring comes from a specific brother of the NW. Many doubts will surround any Lord Commander's decision, but no one can condemn anyone with valid doubts being present. The thought of a family or a child can drive most of the men to abandon their posts and seek their family. <<I shall live and die at my post>>: An overall generic dedication term of one's life to the NW. Of course there are valid exemptions that allow a sworn brother to be away from the Wall and to perform a specific task or function for the benefit of the Watch, such as the Wandering Crows who recruit able bodied men for the Watch, or the assignment of a black brother to study at the Citadel. (Off topic) <<I am the shield that guards the realms of men>>: This is a very interesting part of the oath. It includes all the realms of men, it is not boundary-specific, and it allows a lot of lee for interpretation. It may well apply for the "Realms of Men Beyond the Wall". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Runaway Penguin Posted August 27, 2016 Share Posted August 27, 2016 I generally find the obsession with holy orders kinda... Funny, as both world wars showed that if anything, having a family to protect is a VERY powerful motivator to fight, if the country is in danger (though then again you knew that the country will most likely take care of them) - but any way, mining for hidden treasure in Mole's Town is kinda edging the line and wise Lord Commander knows when to look elsewhere. Then again, it may have the same origins as celibacy in the Catholic church - no rooting in higher mysteries, but rather in posts not becoming inheritable Watch oath also does not mention anything about non-interference in the matters of Realm (at least North) - it just says the Brothers should seek no crowns and no glory. But it does not say Watch should not interfere if, say, Lord of Winterfell went bonkers and tendangered the existence of Watch... Or when the Realm was under attack by magical force (dragons). After all, NW Oath says nothing about being mortal enemy of Wildlings. Smart Watch would have trading outposts at each of the Castles, encouraging Wildlings to come there and get stuff in exchange for furs and stuff - in the long run and for average Wildling, that would be far more profitable than raiding. A lot of NW customs is tradition rather than oath and traditions are often wrong, esp. once their source is forgotten. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JWittoBeast Posted August 27, 2016 Author Share Posted August 27, 2016 10 minutes ago, Runaway Penguin said: I generally find the obsession with holy orders kinda... Funny, as both world wars showed that if anything, having a family to protect is a VERY powerful motivator to fight, if the country is in danger (though then again you knew that the country will most likely take care of them) - but any way, mining for hidden treasure in Mole's Town is kinda edging the line and wise Lord Commander knows when to look elsewhere. Then again, it may have the same origins as celibacy in the Catholic church - no rooting in higher mysteries, but rather in posts not becoming inheritable Watch oath also does not mention anything about non-interference in the matters of Realm (at least North) - it just says the Brothers should seek no crowns and no glory. But it does not say Watch should not interfere if, say, Lord of Winterfell went bonkers and tendangered the existence of Watch... Or when the Realm was under attack by magical force (dragons). After all, NW Oath says nothing about being mortal enemy of Wildlings. Smart Watch would have trading outposts at each of the Castles, encouraging Wildlings to come there and get stuff in exchange for furs and stuff - in the long run and for average Wildling, that would be far more profitable than raiding. A lot of NW customs is tradition rather than oath and traditions are often wrong, esp. once their source is forgotten. The NW oath says to guard the Realms of Men, by guard it means keep out a horde of unwashed rapers and reavers and murderers. It's only after the entire Wildling population gets REKT that they learn to stop fucking around and actually listen to the laws of the Southern nations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Runaway Penguin Posted August 27, 2016 Share Posted August 27, 2016 Realms of Men were also beyond the Wall. Heck, once King of Winter and King Beyond the Wall had to join forces to bring Watch in line. In the Olden days, wall was doubtless the same for folk beyond the Wall as a holdfast to villagers - place where they can retreat to safety if things go bad. Far less raiders than Wildlings in general and without trade, Wildlings have little choice than raiding to get cool stuff from South. Hence establish trading outposts, see the sea dry out for Raiders You are taking in last few years/decades. Watch and Wall were there for millenia, if history is to be trusted. And you do not build a 700 feet wall to keep few raiders in line (IF the raids were such a concern, Wall wqould be permanently manned by Northern levies). Your view demonstrates clearly how the Watch tradition onscures the Watch oath and Watch purpose Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orphalesion Posted August 27, 2016 Share Posted August 27, 2016 Because the Night's Watch is batshit crazy. That explains everything about them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon Fossoway Posted August 27, 2016 Share Posted August 27, 2016 9 hours ago, JWittoBeast said: Let's see. By going to Mole Town, you will Sleep with whores Spend some time ( a few hours to a night) away from your post Drink beer Look at the vows of the NW. "Father no children, take no wives" You certainly aren't marrying these prostitutes, as for no children, well what if you do it up the butt? "Live and die at my post" You could live in a city, but leave the city for a few hours but still live in that city. Going to unwind for a bit isn't exactly deserting, and the Lord Commanders know this because they don't really care, because at the end on the day the NW brothers are going to return to their posts. If I was lord commander, I would support this behaviour, since going to chill at Mole's Town helps with morale tremendously. That does bring up a good question though, where do the brothers of the NW go to fap? You can't support that behaviour, being Lord Commander. The Night's Watch, and most semi-religious orders have a good dose of hypocrisy and inequality. The particular case of Mole's Town is something everyone condemns on the official side but abide when nobody's looking. The vow -if it wasn't modified over the course of the years- is ancient. It's ceremonial and that's that. Trying to find some practical meaning in the vow, in the present days of Westeros, is being a little deluded in my opinion. Not meaning any of the posters here, but the brothers of the NW. Qhorin, one of the most famous members of the Watch, practically forced a kid to break the vows to gain tactical leverage over the enemy. Just sayin' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JWittoBeast Posted August 27, 2016 Author Share Posted August 27, 2016 36 minutes ago, King Merrett I Frey said: You can't support that behaviour, being Lord Commander. The Night's Watch, and most semi-religious orders have a good dose of hypocrisy and inequality. The particular case of Mole's Town is something everyone condemns on the official side but abide when nobody's looking. The vow -if it wasn't modified over the course of the years- is ancient. It's ceremonial and that's that. Trying to find some practical meaning in the vow, in the present days of Westeros, is being a little deluded in my opinion. Not meaning any of the posters here, but the brothers of the NW. Qhorin, one of the most famous members of the Watch, practically forced a kid to break the vows to gain tactical leverage over the enemy. Just sayin' Who's says I can't support that kind of behaviour? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lurid Jester Posted August 27, 2016 Share Posted August 27, 2016 18 hours ago, JWittoBeast said: The NW oath says to guard the Realms of Men, by guard it means keep out a horde of unwashed rapers and reavers and murderers. It's only after the entire Wildling population gets REKT that they learn to stop fucking around and actually listen to the laws of the Southern nations. The wildlings, rapers and reavers are technically part of the "Realm of Men". No where is it implied that Realm of Men excludes the horrible men and women. You don't build a 700 ft wall to protect against people who can either sail around it, or climb over it and are not stopped at all by the magic inherent in the wall itself. Over the years the NW has lost its way and become little more than border patrol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon Fossoway Posted August 27, 2016 Share Posted August 27, 2016 1 hour ago, JWittoBeast said: Who's says I can't support that kind of behaviour? Errr, you know, tradition. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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