Was Lyanna Stark the Knight of the Laughing Tree?

[The Fattest Leech]

 

40 minutes ago, Kienn said:

Where is that established? Are you talking about when Catelyn mistakes Brienne for a man? The only thing established about the effect of a helm is that it muffled Brienne's voice. It did not make it boom. Catelyn mistakes Brienne for a man because she simply expects it to be a man.

Again, helms detract from voices, they don't add to them.

Hmmm, I don't know. This guy, who already had a deep voice, still seemed to boom within his helm.

 

"Elia of Dorne," they all heard Ser Gregor say, when they were close enough to kiss. His deep voice boomed within the helm. "I killed her screaming whelp."

 

[J. Stargaryen]

Unless it's already been addressed and I missed it, in which case I apologize, I think the Brienne-at-Bitterbridge comparisons to Lyanna-as-the-KotLT are possibly missing the bigger picture. Which is, when you see someone in a knight's armor, you automatically assume that it's a man. In other words, you hear and see what you want, or expect, to hear and see.

[Ygrain]

5 hours ago, Kienn said:

Can you provide a quote stating that Ned isn't "short of stature"? Can you provide one stating that Ned never donned a mystery knight's armor? You may start any time.

Getting desperate with invalid parallels, aren't we,

Ned, a whole book PoV character, is not "short of stature" because not a single other character refers to him as such, and being shortER than a dashing elder brother doesn't make him notably short. All notably short persons, like Tyrion, Olenna or GoHH, are properly referenced as indeed notably short.

As for not donning a mystery knight's armour, alas, I cannot provide a quote showing that Robert dwarfed himself by Howland's magicky tricks so that he could boom from under his helmet, which would hopefully satisfy your obsession with booming voices. As others have pointed out to you, Ned, a young man of normal stature, of social standing that perfectly allows him to enter the lists and of straightforward character, does not need a mismatched armour even if he didn't bring his own. He is not a mystery person in the books, either, his sister is. Who would be notably shorter than the other participants, couldn't enter the lists and would have to rely on a limited supply of armour pieces that would fit her. You don't want to see this, don't want to see where GRRM is pointing with all that excellent horsemanships, Lady Lances and tilting at rings, your choice. But stops acting as if you had a point with a booming voice only because Lyanna is a girl, when just a page before she does some very ungirly roaring.

[Kienn]

8 hours ago, The Fattest Leech said:

Hmmm, I don't know. This guy, who already had a deep voice, still seemed to boom within his helm.

 

"Elia of Dorne," they all heard Ser Gregor say, when they were close enough to kiss. His deep voice boomed within the helm. "I killed her screaming whelp."

 

Right... I didn't say it's impossible for anyone to boom well enough to still boom inside a helm or else the KotLT wouldn't be booming in the first place.

So is Lyanna more like Brienne or The Mountain?

[The Fattest Leech]

4 minutes ago, Kienn said:

Right... I didn't say it's impossible for anyone to boom well enough to still boom inside a helm or else the KotLT wouldn't be booming in the first place.

So is Lyanna more like Brienne or The Mountain?

She's like anyone else wearing a helm that distorts the voice. You said the helm detracts from the voice and here is an inworld example of that not being true... even on a guy with a deep voice. Pair that with people's preconceived notion that a person in a battle/ tourney is always  a male. 

[Darkstream]

7 hours ago, Kienn said:

Right... I didn't say it's impossible for anyone to boom well enough to still boom inside a helm or else the KotLT wouldn't be booming in the first place.

So is Lyanna more like Brienne or The Mountain?

In regards to being able to make a booming voice, she's definitely more like the Mountain. Brienne is an awkward, soft spoken, and shy person who mumbles. The exact opposite of what Lyanna is described as. A roaring, howling, headstrong, willful, courageous and hot-tempered she-wolf.

[sweetsunray]

16 hours ago, Kienn said:

Where is that established? Are you talking about when Catelyn mistakes Brienne for a man? The only thing established about the effect of a helm is that it muffled Brienne's voice. It did not make it boom. Catelyn mistakes Brienne for a man because she simply expects it to be a man.

Again, helms detract from voices, they don't add to them.

You blame the helmet for Brienne's voice being "muffled". Can you support that with evidence from any other speaker while wearing a helmet that a helmet muffles their voices?

If not then the simplest explanation for Brienne's muffled voice is Brienne herself, who may be a chatterbox inside her mind, but is sullen, silent, and mumbles greetings and partings, avoids eye contact in any and most situations and has dreams of biting her tongue off before being able to even say what she rehearsed to say. Brienne is tongue-tied, thick-tongued, hence she muffles her voice all by herself. She's talking to Renly, her idolized crush. Get the helmet off, and her voice would still be muffled.

[Free folk Daemon]

On 10/10/2016 at 0:10 PM, Macgregor of the North said:

@Free folk Daemon since this is your thread, what do you believe? Has the thread answered your question?

I think the views stated by everybody on the thread paints a very strong case for Lyanna.

1. Lyannas voice cant boom!. Yes, it can(see @sweetsunray), and a helm would help it on its way.

2. Lyanna could not knock three grown men off their horses, let alone three champions. Nope! Out of his armour, Loras is described as a slender boy who looks younger than his sixteen years, but this in no way hinders his ability to regularly knock grown men off their horses, Including Jaime Lannister, members of the kingsguard and also the biggest guy in the whole story Gregor clegane. The key is with the riders ability and skill.

3. Lyanna has never ever trained with lance. Well, the only evidence that anybody has for this is their own bare faced assumption that she never. While there is actually semi canon evidence from an approved GRRM involved project source that not only shows she has practiced with the lance but she is actually 'practiced' at it, meaning proficient through a good deal of practice. So on this point, the Lyanna camp is just slightly ahead on that one.

4. Then just picture this, A full grown man Ned Stark, hunting around Harrenhal for armour that does not fit, or match(and could endanger his life), to canter on to the field and challenge three champs while hiding his identity. Sound like Ned?

5. Then remind yourself how the Lyanna angle fits in to the story, where the Ned angle simply does not.

 

@Macgregor of the North I personally think it's Lyanna. Believe the case for Howland being tKotLT over Ned would get my vote after her, but when I first read the story I didn't think it was Howland, Ned, Benjen or anyone other than Lyanna. It fits my view of Lyanna's personality, how she would stand up again for her father's bannerman and how she and Rhaegar met.

Imo showing how Lyanna would first fight off Howland's attackers with a tourney sword and then enter the lists as a mystery knight makes me think GRRM wanted her to do and be good at two things (fighting with a sword and jousting) that men in the world of ice and fire did and women very rarely or were discouraged or shamed for doing or even wanting to do. Even though the squires I think had no weapons nor possibly interest in fighting a well-known lord's daughter, I recall, perhaps inaccurately, that Lyanna's skill with a sword in sparring with her brothers was noted somewhere in the books.

Though ofc GRRM could confirm tKotLT in future books as someone else and then I'll have to re-read for the clues it was another character...

[TheMiddleHero]

I think it being Eddard is well within reason the more I think on the story and continually reread.

 

A few of my reasons besides what has been discussed:

 

1- I feel like the way the story is told, the Reeds feel Bran should know this story because his father would have told him this story in a bragging manner, just like their father did. Yet maybe they don't understand the consequences of what happened, and Eddard's possible guilt over his actions, leading to him not discussing it. Much like all the Ashara Dayne talk that he immediately silenced.

 

2- It also fits in with Ned's guilty conscience. His actions may have led to unexpected consequences, though he was trying to do the honorable thing. Also may fit in with his disgust of wasting money on tournaments in his honor.

 

3- I could definitely see a young though honorable Ned being a mystery knight. Curious where his mastery of combat skills relate to others, yet shy/quiet enough to not want to draw attention to himself.

 

The one thing that holds me back is the short in stature, but a younger Ned could have filled out and grown later than the rest. Many do, I did.

 

 

[maudisdottir]

I still don't see how Ned being the KotLT serves the story at all.  What were the consequences?  If the upshot was he made a loyal friend in Howland, then why not have Ned be the one who confronted the squires in the first place rather than Lyanna?  Having it be Ned doesn't add anything except give an anecdote for the Reed kids to tell.  If it's Lyanna it explains so much more, and obviously the consequences for the overall story are much greater, and fill in a lot of the missing holes in the R+L mystery.

[TheMiddleHero]

5 minutes ago, maudisdottir said:

I still don't see how Ned being the KotLT serves the story at all.  What were the consequences?  If the upshot was he made a loyal friend in Howland, then why not have Ned be the one who confronted the squires in the first place rather than Lyanna?  Having it be Ned doesn't add anything except give an anecdote for the Reed kids to tell.  If it's Lyanna it explains so much more, and obviously the consequences for the overall story are much greater, and fill in a lot of the missing holes in the R+L mystery.

Can't say I believe R+L, seems like a huge red herring to me. Hence the ambiguous nature of the KotLT story.

[Kienn]

3 minutes ago, maudisdottir said:

I still don't see how Ned being the KotLT serves the story at all.  What were the consequences?  If the upshot was he made a loyal friend in Howland, then why not have Ned be the one who confronted the squires in the first place rather than Lyanna?  Having it be Ned doesn't add anything except give an anecdote for the Reed kids to tell.  If it's Lyanna it explains so much more, and obviously the consequences for the overall story are much greater, and fill in a lot of the missing holes in the R+L mystery.

KotLT is what draws Rhaegar's attention to Lyanna.

On investigating KotLT he learns of Lyanna's encounter with the squires, and that is his reason for crowning her. Since Lyanna's abduction/runaway is what triggers the events that lead to war then Ned would feel guilt from that. The final trigger to war was Aerys' calling for Ned & Robert's heads, if one of Aerys' reasons for that was because he learned Ned was the KotLT then Ned may feel all the worse.

[ravenous reader]

6 hours ago, Free folk Daemon said:

Lyanna's skill with a sword in sparring with her brothers was noted somewhere in the books.

You are correct.  It was in one of Bran's greenseeing visions:

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A Dance with Dragons - Bran III

Eddard Stark resumed his prayer. Bran felt his eyes fill up with tears. But were they his own tears, or the weirwood's? If I cry, will the tree begin to weep?

The rest of his father's words were drowned out by a sudden clatter of wood on wood. Eddard Stark dissolved, like mist in a morning sun. Now two children danced across the godswood, hooting at one another as they dueled with broken branches.  The girl was the older and taller of the two. Arya! Bran thought eagerly, as he watched her leap up onto a rock and cut at the boy. But that couldn't be right. If the girl was Arya, the boy was Bran himself, and he had never worn his hair so long. And Arya never beat me playing swords, the way that girl is beating him. She slashed the boy across his thigh, so hard that his leg went out from under him and he fell into the pool and began to splash and shout. "You be quiet, stupid," the girl said, tossing her own branch aside. "It's just water. Do you want Old Nan to hear and run tell Father?" She knelt and pulled her brother from the pool, but before she got him out again, the two of them were gone.

After that the glimpses came faster and faster, till Bran was feeling lost and dizzy. He saw no more of his father, nor the girl who looked like Arya

 

On 10/10/2016 at 0:36 AM, Kienn said:

The rest of the books have a clear pattern of who can do it. Men (soldiers, heralds, singers) and "large" folks (i.e. Manderlys and Jaime's aunt Genna). Find me a 14 year old slim girl with a booming voice and I'll concede that Lyanna could boom.

Granted, it's difficult for a female of that age and body habitus to put on a convincingly 'booming' voice, even taking into account the valiant explanation of the acoustics of a metal helm and Kathleen Turner's husky larynx..!  That part of the story has always struck me as jarring, although otherwise I have no doubt that the legendary KOTLT is supposed to be Lyanna Stark.  

Perhaps GRRM is not as perfectionist a writer -- horror or horrors -- as you all make him out to be.  It's conceivable he got sloppy plugging in his limited vocab.  According to the search engine I'm using, he used 'boom' or a derivative thereof in 79 diverse contexts in ASOIAF, though only once for a female, aunt Genna.  Maybe he just enjoys inserting the word 'boom,' 'booming' or 'boomed'...because he's partial to that word, even when it doesn't really make sense!  For example, although it's convincing that someone like Genna's voice would boom -- she's a fully-grown woman with the physique of an obese opera singer and the imposing personality to match -- I consider the folllowing description to simply be bad writing:

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A Game of Thrones - Jon IX

Another voice broke in. "You know where I'd be if it was me? I'd be in Mole's Town, digging for buried treasure." Toad's shrill laughter boomed through the trees. Jon's mare snorted.

'Boom' is a loud, deep, resonant sound, whereas 'shrill' is high-pitched and piercing.  Sometimes dabbling in oxymorons is poetically effective, but not in this case.  One does not say a whistle or other high-pitched instrument 'boomed' through the auditorium, no matter how loud and penetrating the sound.  Perhaps he should have chosen a different verb here... shrill laughter 'carried/reverberated/echoed/scattered/bounced/ricocheted' through the trees... but 'boomed' does not really work.  Also, from what we've been told about Toad he's a short boy with a shrill rather than sonorous voice described as singularly 'unpleasant,' especially when he sings when it's likened to the sound of 'piss poured over a fart'; he 'pipes,' 'oinks', has a 'nervous laugh' and only sometimes speaks in a 'rough voice.'  In short, his voice is irritating rather than commanding, making 'booming' an odd descriptor, even in a forest.  So, that's one option to explain the disjunction -- an unfortunate choice of words.

OR:  perhaps you just saw what you expected to see because you assume GRRM never makes mistakes and you expect the KOTLT to be a male.  Just as the people at the Tourney heard a man's voice, resonating with the great 'boom' of a commanding male victor -- because that's what they were expecting to hear:

Quote

Syrio stepped back. "You are dead now."

Arya made a face.

"You cheated," she said hotly. "You said left and you went right." 

"Just so. And now you are a dead girl."

"But you lied!"

"My words lied. My eyes and my arm shouted out the truth, but you were not seeing."

"I was so," Arya said. "I watched you every second!"

"Watching is not seeing, dead girl. The water dancer sees. Come, put down the sword, it is time for listening now."

She followed him over to the wall, where he settled onto a bench. "Syrio Forel was first sword to the Sealord of Braavos, and are you knowing how that came to pass?"

"You were the finest swordsman in the city."

"Just so, but why? Other men were stronger, faster, younger, why was Syrio Forel the best? I will tell you now." He touched the tip of his little finger lightly to his eyelid. "The seeing, the true seeing, that is the heart of it.

"Hear me. The ships of Braavos sail as far as the winds blow, to lands strange and wonderful, and when they return their captains fetch queer animals to the Sealord's menagerie. Such animals as you have never seen, striped horses, great spotted things with necks as long as stilts, hairy mouse-pigs as big as cows, stinging manticores, tigers that carry their cubs in a pouch, terrible walking lizards with scythes for claws. Syrio Forel has seen these things.

"On the day I am speaking of, the first sword was newly dead, and the Sealord sent for me. Many bravos had come to him, and as many had been sent away, none could say why. When I came into his presence, he was seated, and in his lap was a fat yellow cat. He told me that one of his captains had brought the beast to him, from an island beyond the sunrise. 'Have you ever seen her like?' he asked of me.

"And to him I said, 'Each night in the alleys of Braavos I see a thousand like him,' and the Sealord laughed, and that day I was named the first sword."

Arya screwed up her face. "I don't understand."

Syrio clicked his teeth together. "The cat was an ordinary cat, no more. The others expected a fabulous beast, so that is what they saw. How large it was, they said. It was no larger than any other cat, only fat from indolence, for the Sealord fed it from his own table. What curious small ears, they said. Its ears had been chewed away in kitten fights. And it was plainly a tomcat, yet the Sealord said 'her,' and that is what the others saw. Are you hearing?"

'Are you hearing?'  Did it really 'boom'... Or is that just a hyperbolic trick manufactured by the prejudiced brains of the audience, contributing to how the story is told in retrospect? 

Quote

Arya thought about it. "You saw what was there."

"Just so. Opening your eyes is all that is needing. The heart lies and the head plays tricks with us, but the eyes see true. Look with your eyes. Hear with your ears. Taste with your mouth. Smell with your nose. Feel with your skin. Then comes the thinking, afterward, and in that way knowing the truth."

"Just so," said Arya, grinning.

Syrio Forel allowed himself a smile.

 

On 10/11/2016 at 0:56 AM, J. Stargaryen said:

Unless it's already been addressed and I missed it, in which case I apologize, I think the Brienne-at-Bitterbridge comparisons to Lyanna-as-the-KotLT are possibly missing the bigger picture. Which is, when you see someone in a knight's armor, you automatically assume that it's a man. In other words, you hear and see what you want, or expect, to hear and see.

Indeed.  What I was entertaining above as GRRM's 'unfortunate choice of words' may be a shrewd comment on the nature of perception!

On 10/9/2016 at 3:47 PM, Makk said:

The KotLT is Lyanna and the chapter is quite important for readers to understand her character. In my mind I am completely convinced about it. Debating the evidence of whether she could joust, or how deep her voice is, or whether Ned would go into such subterfuge is completely pointless to me. Instead look at the meaning each option would have in terms of the story.

I'm also convinced it's Lyanna, and moreover don't think dissecting the text in straight lines with 'Occam's razor' is adequate to 'prove' it.  Actually, I have bad news for everyone, especially the pedants among us:  Short of GRRM explicitly confirming or disconfirming something with a clear yes-no answer (which has never been his style), we will get no 'proofs' of anything ever!  Rather, the way GRRM creates his meanings is by nesting or overlayering various levels of symbolism constituting a circular rather than a linear type of logic -- in other words, what we're picking up on as 'foreshadowing.'  Does foreshadowing constitute a sufficient proof?  No.  However, foreshadowing undeniably builds meaning and momentum.  

I agree with @The Fattest Leech here that GRRM tends to plant 'clues to bigger arcs in seemingly smaller arcs', constructing parallels for example between the three female characters who are closest to Jon, namely his mother Lyanna, his lover Ygritte and his favorite sibling Arya, from which we may infer elements of each other's stories:

On 10/9/2016 at 0:14 PM, The Fattest Leech said:

...clues to bigger arcs are hidden in seemingly smaller arcs, there is this in addition to the other great clues other posters have already mentioned.

To start, when we meet Brienne for the first time, she is mistaken as a man and even Catelyn misjudges her voice to be a man's voice:

• "Grace," he said, his voice muffled by his dented greathelm. {Cat thinking Brienne is a man}

"You are all your lord father claimed you were." Renly's voice carried over the field. "I've seen Ser Loras unhorsed once or twice . . . but never quite in that fashion."

To me, this interaction between Jon and Ygritte sounds like a playback to some of the KotLT story we know about, and how it may have just worked to win over Rhaegar (somehow). I bolded a few choice parts:

• She claimed to be three years older than him, though she stood half a foot shorter; however old she might be, the girl was a tough little thing. - Lyanna might still have the frame of younger lady, but she is still tough, as we have been told by those closest to her.
• She reminded him a little of his sister Arya, though Arya was younger and probably skinnier. It was hard to tell how plump or thin Ygritte might be, with all the furs and skins she wore. - Wildlings don't wear Westerosi armor. Their armor is the skins they wear. We have already been told (a few times) how Arya is so much like Jon's mother, well, this is another link. It is quite possible that even though Lyanna was young and skinny, it was still hard to tell what she was really like hidden under all of her pieced together armor.
• Ygritte said, "You need a deeper voice than mine to do it proper." Then she sang,""Ooooooh," - Ok, and now we have a possible link to Lyanna convincingly using a deeper (booming) voice to disguise her own. Plus, anyone inside a full metal helm will have their voice altered anyway to a more "booming" sound.
• So here, Ygritte starts singing the song Last of the Giants, and at the end of the passage, she cries... just like Lyanna did...
  • For when I am gone the singing will fade,
    and the silence shall last long and long.
    There were tears on Ygritte's cheeks when the song ended.

Here is a link to the song Ygritte (and Tormund and another) sing to Jon http://awoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/The_Last_of_the_Giants

And here is a full version of where I took my quotes from:

Ygritte trotted beside Jon as he slowed his garron to a walk. She claimed to be three years older than him, though she stood half a foot shorter; however old she might be, the girl was a tough little thing. Stonesnake had called her a "spearwife" when they'd captured her in the Skirling Pass. She wasn't wed and her weapon of choice was a short curved bow of horn and weirwood, but "spearwife" fit her all the same. She reminded him a little of his sister Arya, though Arya was younger and probably skinnier. It was hard to tell how plump or thin Ygritte might be, with all the furs and skins she wore.

"Do you know 'The Last of the Giants'?" Without waiting for an answer Ygritte said, "You need a deeper voice than mine to do it proper." Then she sang, "Ooooooh, I am the last of the giants, my people are gone from the earth." (Jon II in A Storm of Swords)

Elsewhere, @The Fattest Leech also points out Ygritte's association with weirwood trees -- her trademark weirwood bow (by the way, a pun on 'bough' which is the branch or limb of one of GRRM's characteristically personified trees), to which I might add her red 'kissed-by-fire' hair like a weirwood tree whose leaves are similarly likened to flames, her love of singing (which evokes the singers associated with the weirwood, the power of the greenseers, and the far-reaching rustling and whispering of the leaves), and her connection as a Wildling to the 'old ways' and 'the old gods'.  She is called a 'spearwife', so she is a female warrior figure whose weapon of choice is a weirwood tree -- in fact, we might even say she's another symbolic embodiment of a 'Maiden of the Tree' or 'Knight of the Laughing Tree' (like the others, she also enjoys laughing).  She is compared by Jon to Arya; and elsewhere Arya is compared to Lyanna; so applying the 'transitive property of equality' using literary license we can speculate therefore that Lyanna, of whom we know the least since she's a dead character, may also have been similar to Ygritte in addition to Arya, in terms of personality as well as sharing certain features in common in their plot arcs.  

Now if Ygritte is a tomboyish spearwife with a bow and arrow, and Arya has her needle, is it such a far symbolic stretch to imagine that Lyanna may have wielded that lance?  In medicine, 'lancing' is the action of pricking something open using a needle-like blade, i.e. a steel instrument with a sharp, slender, pointy end.  If Arya is anything to go by, then Lyanna may very well have taken after her wolfblooded niece and relished a bit of vigilante justice on the side, 'sticking those squires with the pointy end'.  

Supporting the idea of females as potentially successful jousters, in 'the Mystery Knight' it's highlighted that the art of lancing relies on other factors besides superior brute force:

Quote

The Mystery Knight

Ser Glendon glanced at Dunk as the wine was being poured. "If we meet, he'll fall. I don't care how big he is."

Dunk watched a server fill his wine cup. "I am better with a sword than with a lance," he admitted, "and even better with a battleaxe. Will there be a melee here?" His size and strength would stand him in good stead in a melee, and he knew he could give as good as he got. Jousting was another matter.

...

"You seem a healthy fellow, and very large. Size will always impress the fools, though it means little and less in jousting. 

Jaime adds to the discussion:

Quote

A Feast for Crows - Jaime II

Jousting was three-quarters horsemanship, Jaime had always believed.

And Lyanna was half a horse...

Quote

Ser Loras rode superbly, and handled a lance as if he'd been born holding one . . . which no doubt accounted for his mother's pinched expression. He puts the point just where he means to put it, and seems to have the balance of a cat. Perhaps it was not such a fluke that he unhorsed me.

So basically jousting is about horsemanship, balance, flexibility, speed and the precision with which one places the lance -- or sticks them with the pointy end!  The reference to a cat/Cat reminds us of Arya, and therefore by association of Lyanna as well as Ygritte.

If an effeminate boy like the Knight of Flowers can be a great jousting champion ('no fluke' as Jaime concedes), why can't a tomboyish girl be the Knight of the Laughing Tree?

Quote

"I wish I had a flaming sword." Arya could think of lots of people she'd like to set on fire.

 

Quote

A Game of Thrones - Arya II

"Needle wouldn't break," Arya said defiantly, but her voice betrayed her words.

"It has a name, does it?" Her father sighed. "Ah, Arya. You have a wildness in you, child. 'The wolf blood,' my father used to call it. Lyanna had a touch of it, and my brother Brandon more than a touch. It brought them both to an early grave." Arya heard sadness in his voice; he did not often speak of his father, or of the brother and sister who had died before she was born. "Lyanna might have carried a sword, if my lord father had allowed it. You remind me of her sometimes. You even look like her.

 

Quote

"It's only a trick, I told you. The wildfire ruins the steel. My master sold Thoros a new sword after every tourney. Every time they would have a fight about the price." Gendry hung the tongs back up and took down the heavy hammer. "Master Mott said it was time I made my first longsword. He gave me a sweet piece of steel, and I knew just how I wanted to shape the blade. Only Yoren came, and took me away for the Night's Watch."

"You can still make swords if you want," said Arya. "You can make them for my brother Robb when we get to Riverrun."

"Riverrun." Gendry put the hammer down and looked at her. "You look different now. Like a proper little girl."

"I look like an oak tree, with all these stupid acorns."

"Nice, though. A nice oak tree." He stepped closer, and sniffed at her. "You even smell nice for a change."

"You don't. You stink." Arya shoved him back against the anvil and made to run, but Gendry caught her arm. She stuck a foot between his legs and tripped him, but he yanked her down with him, and they rolled across the floor of the smithy. He was very strong, but she was quicker.

 

Quote

Every time he tried to hold her still she wriggled free and punched him. Gendry only laughed at the blows, which made her mad. He finally caught both her wrists in one hand and started to tickle her with the other, so Arya slammed her knee between his legs, and wrenched free. Both of them were covered in dirt, and one sleeve was torn on her stupid acorn dress. "I bet I don't look so nice now," she shouted.

 

Quote

Tom was singing when they returned to the hall.

My featherbed is deep and soft,

and there I'll lay you down,

I'll dress you all in yellow silk,

and on your head a crown.

For you shall be my lady love,

and I shall be your lord.

I'll always keep you warm and safe,

and guard you with my sword.

Harwin took one look at them and burst out laughing, and Anguy smiled one of his stupid freckly smiles and said, "Are we certain this one is a highborn lady?" But Lem Lemoncloak gave Gendry a clout alongside the head "You want to fight, fight with me! She's a girl, and half your age! You keep your hands off o' her, you hear me?".

"I started it " said Arya. "Gendry was just talking."

So we have a headstrong, feisty girl dressed as a tree initiating the fight with a guy who's much bigger and stronger than her, yet holding her own since she's possessed of superior speed and agility, allowing her to land a few well-directed blows; also much laughter all round.  Not to mention the romantic subtext.  And a singer strumming on a wood harp narrating a meta-commentary to the action culminating in a 'crowning'.  Gee, I wonder what it could all mean... Maybe if we read further, we'll get an answer...

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"Leave the boy, Lem," said Harwin. "Arya did start it, I have no doubt. She was much the same at Winterfell."

Tom winked at her as he sang:

And how she smiled and how she laughed,

the maiden of the tree.

'laughed, the knight of the tree'...'the maiden of the laughing tree'

The similarity of the phrases is significant.

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She spun away and said to him, no featherbed for me.

I'll wear a gown of golden leaves,

and bind my hair with grass,

But you can be my forest love,

and me your forest lass.

"I have no gowns of leaves," said Lady Smallwood with a small fond smile, "but Carellen left some other dresses that might serve. Come, child, let us go upstairs and see what we can find."

 

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A Storm of Swords - Bran II

Bran nodded sagely. Mystery knights would oft appear at tourneys, with helms concealing their faces, and shields that were either blank or bore some strange device. Sometimes they were famous champions in disguise.

Mystery knights are nameless, faceless ones.  'Champions in disguise' -- faceless assassins...like Arya; and her aunt when she met Rhaegar.  And Ygritte when she met Jon:

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A Clash of Kings - Jon VI

It all seemed to happen in a heartbeat. Afterward Jon could admire the courage of the wildling who reached first for his horn instead of his blade. He got it to his lips, but before he could sound it Stonesnake knocked the horn aside with a swipe of his shortsword. Jon's man leapt to his feet, thrusting at his face with a burning brand. He could feel the heat of the flames as he flinched back. Out of the corner of his eye, he saw the sleeper stirring, and knew he must finish his man quick. When the brand swung again, he bulled into it, swinging the bastard sword with both hands. The Valyrian steel sheared through leather, fur, wool, and flesh, but when the wildling fell he twisted, ripping the sword from Jon's grasp. On the ground the sleeper sat up beneath his furs. Jon slid his dirk free, grabbing the man by the hair and jamming the point of the knife up under his chin as he reached for his—no, her—

His hand froze. "A girl."

"A watcher," said Stonesnake. "A wildling. Finish her."

Jon could see fear and fire in her eyes. Blood ran down her white throat from where the point of his dirk had pricked her. One thrust and it's done, he told himself. He was so close he could smell onion on her breath. She is no older than I am. Something about her made him think of Arya, though they looked nothing at all alike. "Will you yield?" he asked, giving the dirk a half turn. And if she doesn't?

"I yield." Her words steamed in the cold air.

"You're our captive, then." He pulled the dirk away from the soft skin of her throat.

 

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The Dragonknight once won a tourney as the Knight of Tears, so he could name his sister the queen of love and beauty in place of the king's mistress. And Barristan the Bold twice donned a mystery knight's armor, the first time when he was only ten. "It was the little crannogman, I bet."

"No one knew," said Meera, "but the mystery knight was short of stature, clad in ill-fitting armor made up of bits and pieces. The device upon his shield was a heart tree of the old gods, a white weirwood with a laughing red face."

"Maybe he came from the Isle of Faces," said Bran. "Was he green?" In Old Nan's stories, the guardians had dark green skin and leaves instead of hair. Sometimes they had antlers too, but Bran didn't see how the mystery knight could have worn a helm if he had antlers. "I bet the old gods sent him."

 

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It was even worse than before; Lady Smallwood insisted that Arya take another bath, and cut and comb her hair besides; the dress she put her in this time was sort of lilac-colored, and decorated with little baby pearls. The only good thing about it was that it was so delicate that no one could expect her to ride in it. So the next morning as they broke their fast, 

Lady Smallwood gave her breeches, belt, and tunic to wear, and a brown doeskin jerkin dotted with iron studs. "They were my son's things," she said. "He died when he was seven."

"I'm sorry, my lady." Arya suddenly felt bad for her, and ashamed. "I'm sorry I tore the acorn dress too. It was pretty."

"Yes, child. And so are you. Be brave."

Arya clad in boy's clothing is wearing hastily put together borrowed clothes 'dotted with iron studs' like armor-- paralleling Lyanna.

Not only does this outfit resemble the borrowed armor, it also resembles a tree (echoing the device of the laughing tree), particularly the superstitious practice historically of putting iron or copper nails into the trunks of oak trees (Lady Smallwood is of Oak Tree Hall) in order to ward against various ailments.  GRRM includes one such image of a metal-studded tree:

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A Dance with Dragons - Jaime I

Pennytree proved to be a much larger village than he had anticipated. The war had been here too; blackened orchards and the scorched shells of broken houses testified to that. But for every home in ruins three more had been rebuilt. Through the gathering blue dusk Jaime glimpsed fresh thatch upon a score of roofs, and doors made of raw green wood. Between a duck pond and a blacksmith's forge, he came upon the tree that gave the place its name, an oak ancient and tall. Its gnarled roots twisted in and out of the earth like a nest of slow brown serpents, and hundreds of old copper pennies had been nailed to its huge trunk.

 

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Oak trees were probably the most important, magical tree in European pagan mythology.  They were worshipped in sacred groves by the Druids and individual oaks were venerated. As they can make wailing, moaning noises when they are cut into or felled, they were thought to have human traits. Oaks possessed powerful magic that could cure you of your toothache if you drove a nail into the trunk, could stop you from ageing if you carried an acorn in your pocket and offered you protection from lightning strikes.  Oak was associated with Zeus and Thor, the powerful pagan male gods of storms and lightning, and, because of their shape, were regarded as symbols of male virility and power.  It is a good thing that oak trees offered protection from lightning, as they are more liable than other trees to be struck, partly because they are often the tallest object in the immediate landscape, but also because oak wood has low resistance to electricity. But being struck by lightning was also important to the oak tree, as sacred mistletoe was thought to have been left in the branches during lightning strikes. Oak leaves were used as symbols of power, conquest and military expertise, and Roman military leaders used to wear crowns woven from oak leaves during their victory parades.

There are many famous, historic oaks in Britain that have had their own stories and legends woven around them.  Perhaps the most famous of them is...

For rest of article on tree mythology, see here

[TheMiddleHero]

4 minutes ago, Kienn said:

KotLT is what draws Rhaegar's attention to Lyanna.

On investigating KotLT he learns of Lyanna's encounter with the squires, and that is his reason for crowning her. Since Lyanna's abduction/runaway is what triggers the events that lead to war then Ned would feel guilt from that. The final trigger to war was Aerys' calling for Ned & Robert's heads, if one of Aerys' reasons for that was because he learned Ned was the KotLT then Ned may feel all the worse.

In his fever dream, Ned reaches out and grabs the blue rose crown, thorns digging into his skin. Seems like a guilty conscience dream to me

[ravenous reader]

12 minutes ago, TheMiddleHero said:

In his fever dream, Ned reaches out and grabs the blue rose crown, thorns digging into his skin. Seems like a guilty conscience dream to me

He feels guilty about one of the broken promises he made her.  Because that's who Ned is.  He gave up who he is for others -- and still doesn't feel he did enough.

[Ygrain]

1 hour ago, TheMiddleHero said:

In his fever dream, Ned reaches out and grabs the blue rose crown, thorns digging into his skin. Seems like a guilty conscience dream to me

It might be guilty conscience, but the manner of the gesture doesn't seem to point to him being the one who brought Rhaegar's attention to Lyanna - rather, trying to prevent, by taking the crown from her, what was to follow, and failing. 

Or perhaps it is not guilt at all and merely a symbol of all the tragedy that followed because of the crowning.

[Ygrain]

1 hour ago, ravenous reader said:

'Boom' is a loud, deep, resonant sound, whereas 'shrill' is high-pitched and piercing.  Sometimes dabbling in oxymorons is poetically effective, but not in this case.  One does not say a whistle or other high-pitched instrument 'boomed' through the auditorium, no matter how loud and penetrating the sound.  Perhaps he should have chosen a different verb here... shrill laughter 'carried/reverberated/echoed/scattered/bounced/ricocheted' through the trees... but 'boomed' does not really work.  Also, from what we've been told about Toad he's a short boy with a shrill rather than sonorous voice described as singularly 'unpleasant,' especially when he sings when it's likened to the sound of 'piss poured over a fart'; he 'pipes,' 'oinks', has a 'nervous laugh' and only sometimes speaks in a 'rough voice.'  In short, his voice is irritating rather than commanding, making 'booming' an odd descriptor, even in a forest.  So, that's one option to explain the disjunction -- an unfortunate choice of words.

That's a very good observation. Seems like GRRM used it here to describe a loud resonating voice, regardless of the pitch. And if he disregarded the pitch once, he could do that again.

[Angus Thermopyle]

I don't know if this has been mentioned by someone else as I'm not going to go through all the posts but wouldn't Lyanna not being in the stands watching the tourney be noticed and talked about ? 

[Ygrain]

Those were rather unimportant guys competing - no reason to expect every single high-ranking nobleman/woman to be present all the time.

- Though I'd say that her brothers, if present, figured out in no time :-)

 

[Bael's Bastard]

All objections I've seen to it being Lyanna are absurd. People are making too many assumptions about the description that TKOTLT "spoke in a Booming Voice through his helm." For one, "they heard a roar" and "howled the she-wolf" were used to describe Lyanna earlier in the same story. Second, the story and language is being related by children of Howland Reed, not witnesses to the events. Aerys himself was convinced it was Jaime Lannister who, while skilled enough to be raised up to the KG, was still just a fifteen year old boy. Not someone the size of an adult Crannogman who was smaller than teenage northerners, nor someone the size of a grown adult Ned Stark.