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Stark revenge/ Arya's next move


Nocturne

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3 hours ago, Meera of Tarth said:

Well, I don't think her arc would have been pointless since her ultimate objective is not the list, but to understand that there are more things apart from the list.

I also think she will attempt to finish it, but won't do it. That will be the ending of her arc.

And there is the possibility that she goes to WF first and then finds other people in the journey. The order is not of importance, although the other way around would seem more logical now. If she hears about WF/Jon/Sansa I think she will think of going North. Maybe then meets others? That could be also.

 Most definitely. 

 

7 hours ago, Le Cygne said:

Yeah, I think that's what will happen, and he will help both sisters.

Arya would put avenging the ones who "killed" Jon at the top of her list, and now they send her home on the show. Sandor is right near Sansa in the books, and now they bring him back and send him north on the show. I think Littlefinger's downfall and helping Jon fight the Others are on the agenda.

Also I think Dany (with a little help from Drogon) is going to take out Cersei and Co. Arya's list doesn't have to be people she personally kills. She didn't kill Joffrey.

Exactly. Or Tywin Lannister.

The fact that Mel helped bring Jon back I think will save her life. Maybe Mel will continue South and find Dany and her group? 

Yes, bringing these characters back and saving Mel from execution just so Arya can kill them a few episodes later makes little sense. 

D&D deliberately left those names off her List and had them all re-enter the story. D&D even had Arya go over her family, recalling them all, even correcting her with Jon as her "Half-brother". 

 

 

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6 hours ago, Mandzipop said:

If Arya doesn't attempt to finish her kill list it will make her arc seem completely pointless.

I appreciate there are a lot of if's in my statement as nobody knows what will happen, it is my opinion and I'm basing it on what I saw.

I totally agree with you on this, the list is the central theme of Arya's story since season 2 and that to show us that the life of this character is powered by revenge, and now after all the story telling about the pain of her travel and training will it be an abandonned plot line? sure no, because it will be a very illogical writing and very illogical arc, she will continue until the end of the list.

A reunion in WF? ain't nobody got time for that, the reunion will be in KL

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13 hours ago, DutchArya said:

Looks like Jon won't have an easy ride as King and the potential for backstabbing might happen again. Arya could put her practical skills to work protecting her family here. Maybe after getting sense knocked into her by Sandor and others, she might be able to help and heal her issues with her sister as well and maybe stop Sansa from doing anything stupid as well. Arya has a lot of emotional intelligence, something sorely lacking among her House - hence all the successful scheming against the Starks in the past.

I think involvement with Sansa does have more potential than involvement with Jon, both characters for example becoming involved with events in the Riverlands is I think a possibility although really that seems like a diversion at this stage in the story to me.

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Maisie already addressed this in the After the Episode video interview. She explained that Arya just arrived to Westeros not sure of the situation or where everyone was at the time. Except Walder Frey. She knew he would be at the Twins. 

So no she did not pick revenge over family. When she meets Mel and is told about Jon death and resurrection and Winterfell - it would complete IN-character for her to run home as fast as she can. It was her family and Stark roots that brought her back to Westeros in the first place and away from the FM. She said she was going home

She knows where Winterfell is and that Jon is most likely at the Wall so she did have choices there.

Walder is the most obvious revenge target, for one thing with Joffery dead he and his sons are the people she has most reason to hate(perhaps more reason anyway, I think the Red Wedding has a bigger impact on her setting her much more clearly on the path to revenge), for another he's closer to Bravos and you could argue likely easier to get to than Cersei as well.

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Arya's job was to kill Lady Crane because the FM told her to. The fact that she was confronted with a moment in her life that changed everything - Ned's death in the play - was d&d's way to reconnect Arya to her roots. Instead Arya connects with LC and sympathies with Cersei’s pain. Arya’s FM thing dissolved, became another facade like all her other names and identities. In the books, she is likely to come face to face with Jeyne Poole, the girl being used to win the North by pretending to be Arya Stark. It will be so intense and incredibly emotional if Jeyne asks for the gift at the HoBW after everything she has been through. WhI left the real Arya returns to Westeros to reclaim her Name. 

Anyway, facing LC as Cersei was Arya facing her demons and her grief. Ultimately, she found herself and did not kill "Cersei". Someone else did. In reality, Tyrion/Jaime will likely be that someone else.

The play I'd agree did obviously serve the purpose to go over Ayra's earlier story again for the audiences sake but I do not think failing to kill LC shows that Ayra has forgiven Cersei. On one level I'd say it shows that Ayra still has too much empathy for mostly innocent people to become the emotionless killer the FM demand(which could play into eventual rejection of revenge). On another though I think it also highlights the importance of revenge for her, the advice she gives LC after all is that Cersei shouldn't just be sorrowful after Jofferys killing but vengeful. The connection there to me seems much more to do with the situation the Cersei character in the play is in than it does the actual character its based on.

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Sandor is going North so if they cross paths - it would be at that point. I mean, you do realise going North doesn't mean all the characters will stay North. As far as the travelling time... For all we know, Arya could meet Sandor/BwB and make it to Winterfell in one ep. Judging by Jaime's travelling from the Twins to KL in the blink of an eye. 

Again I think there are more revelations we don't know about Arya's future role in Winds/Dream that will get worked into the next 2 seasons.

Hanging about in the Riverlands again or failing at killing Cersei again :huh:  just doesn't seem right. 

A confrontation in the Riverlands seems to make much more sense dramatically and I think relates to something fundamental about Ayra's character. She's always(well since leaving WF) been an outsider, either being isolated or involved with other outsiders(Syrio, the Watch recruits, the BwB, the Hound, the FM, the actors troop, etc). Ayra returning to WF would obviously be a shift there, I spose that shift itself could be a point of drama but to me the Riverlands countryside or lurking in the shadows of KL seem much more inline with the Ayra we've seen so far.

I would add as well that the Kings Landing story for me seems to now be very thin on the ground in terms of characters with just Jamie, Cersei, Qyburn the zombie Gregor around. Now perhaps is just does become a narrower story focused on a small number of characters but up until now its always been a story with a lot of different perspectives and Ayra(plus potentially the Hound) being there on the lookout for revenge does seem like an obvious way to provide that.

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On 8/29/2016 at 7:44 AM, Nocturne said:

Its almost complete right now isn't it? Their biggest rival throughout the centuries ( Boltons ) are effectively eradicated. The red wedding is avenged, and their name holds the north again, not only that the alliance with the Vale stands strong again.

Arya is taking care of business at the Twins, but house Frey still has numerous sons to take up the mantle. What do you think Arya's next move will be? Will she stick around to finish destroying house Frey? Or is she going after Cersei?

My guess is that Arya moves for Cersei, and Jon/Sansa + the Vale army secure the Twins (good place to stand against the upcoming zombie army)

 

 

I think a lot could depend on how the timelines match up.  DID the Battle of the Bastards (in Episode 609) actually happen before Arya crossed off Walder Frey (in Episode 610), and if so, how LONG did that battle occur before Arya crossed off Walder?  If it's a very close time frame, I think Arya is going straight to King's Landing to try to cross off Cersei, cuz it's very unlikely Arya will know Jon and Sansa have retaken Winterfell before Arya makes her next move.

On the other hand, IF Arya learns Jon and Sansa have retaken Winterfell very shortly after she finished off Walder, it is inconceivable to me that Arya Stark would do anything but go sraight to Winterfell.  In my opinion, even crossing Cersei off her list would be of less immediate importance to Arya than reuniting with Jon, and even Sansa.

If Arya does go toKing's Landing, I believe she will join forces with Jaime (yeah, I said "Jaime") after he crosses off Cersei, and then Jaime and Arya will head north, at which time Jaime will truly fulfill his oath to Cat by returning Arya to her family (not that she's a helpless child at this point, far from it, but it's possible Arya will need some kind of help along the way, and Jaime could provide it.  It's also possible that his act of returning her will be largely symbolic, but still very important, cuz it could help explain why Jon WON'T kill Jaime on first sight after, I presume, Brienne tells Jon, Sansa and Bran how Jaime threw Bran out the window).

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19 hours ago, MoreOrLess said:

I think involvement with Sansa does have more potential than involvement with Jon

Are you saying she has more potential to have involvement with Sansa than Jon? Why exactly? 

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She knows where Winterfell is and that Jon is most likely at the Wall so she did have choices there.

If she doesn't know what has happened since she has been away, why would she go back to Winterfell right away? Last she heard, it was in enemy hands. The Wall would be her next option, but with Walder within striking distance where she knows he definitely going to be there - it was convenient. Her choice to take out Walder and Avenging the Redding (one of the reasons Jon is crowned King ironically) doesn't negate her plan of going home. It isn't an either or choice. 

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Walder is the most obvious revenge target, for one thing with Joffery dead he and his sons are the people she has most reason to hate(perhaps more reason anyway, I think the Red Wedding has a bigger impact on her setting her much more clearly on the path to revenge), for another he's closer to Bravos and you could argue likely easier to get to than Cersei as well.

Exactly.

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The play I'd agree did obviously serve the purpose to go over Ayra's earlier story again for the audiences sake but I do not think failing to kill LC shows that Ayra has forgiven Cersei. On one level I'd say it shows that Ayra still has too much empathy for mostly innocent people to become the emotionless killer the FM demand(which could play into eventual rejection of revenge). On another though I think it also highlights the importance of revenge for her, the advice she gives LC after all is that Cersei shouldn't just be sorrowful after Jofferys killing but vengeful. The connection there to me seems much more to do with the situation the Cersei character in the play is in than it does the actual character its based on.

Arya gave that advice BEFORE she decided not to kill "Cersei" though. She put the poison in Lady Crane's rum, but something switched inside her and she spared Lady Crane and knowingly put her own life in jeopardy with the FM. "Cersei" ends up dead anyway just like the real one will. It was all very symbolic. 

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A confrontation in the Riverlands seems to make much more sense dramatically and I think relates to something fundamental about Ayra's character. She's always(well since leaving WF) been an outsider, either being isolated or involved with other outsiders(Syrio, the Watch recruits, the BwB, the Hound, the FM, the actors troop, etc). Ayra returning to WF would obviously be a shift there, I spose that shift itself could be a point of drama but to me the Riverlands countryside or lurking in the shadows of KL seem much more inline with the Ayra we've seen so far.

 

Yes, if this was a regular 10 ep season with a following 10 ep s8 - then maybe that could drag out a bit in the Riverlands. There is no time to waste with such storylines.

Her returning was the shift. Like most readers/watchers who followed her story closely predicted correctly that she wouldn't not become No One and instead reclaimed her identity. Returning to Winterfell (collecting her Direwolf along the way hopefully) falls perfectly inline with her character progression. Her story was always about accepting who she is and finding a way to live. In the books, Arya loved being Cat of the Canals the most, the girl who lost both her parents, but came to Braavos on a ship called Nymeria, who works, misses her friends, and is independent. 

Arya returning to Westeros should be completely different in the books. Coming face to face with Jeyne Poole is highly likely and returning North upon hearing of Jon's death and her name being used by the Boltons to take Winterfell. In the books, her return is heavily linked with the North. Why would D&D completely change that when she finally gets back? So she can lurk about in the Riverlands and KL. That adds nothing to her story. More lurking and achieving nothing with just 13 episodes to go. 

Not very realistic. 

 

 

 

 

 

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19 hours ago, DutchArya said:

Are you saying she has more potential to have involvement with Sansa than Jon? Why exactly? 

Ayra meeting Jon would seem to go hand in hand with Ayra leaving her revenge focus behind with little climax to justify it, Ayra meeting Sansa much less so with also the potential to provide openings her to use her talents in the politics Sansa might be involved in.

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If she doesn't know what has happened since she has been away, why would she go back to Winterfell right away? Last she heard, it was in enemy hands. The Wall would be her next option, but with Walder within striking distance where she knows he definitely going to be there - it was convenient. Her choice to take out Walder and Avenging the Redding (one of the reasons Jon is crowned King ironically) doesn't negate her plan of going home. It isn't an either or choice. 

She has ever reason to assume Jon is still at the Wall though doesn't she?

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Arya gave that advice BEFORE she decided not to kill "Cersei" though. She put the poison in Lady Crane's rum, but something switched inside her and she spared Lady Crane and knowingly put her own life in jeopardy with the FM. "Cersei" ends up dead anyway just like the real one will. It was all very symbolic. 

There doesn't seem to be any implication to me that Ayra fails to kill Lady Crane because she's forgiven the character she's playing in a play, she fails to kill her when she gets to know he a little as a person independent from Cersei.

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Yes, if this was a regular 10 ep season with a following 10 ep s8 - then maybe that could drag out a bit in the Riverlands. There is no time to waste with such storylines.

Her returning was the shift. Like most readers/watchers who followed her story closely predicted correctly that she wouldn't not become No One and instead reclaimed her identity. Returning to Winterfell (collecting her Direwolf along the way hopefully) falls perfectly inline with her character progression. Her story was always about accepting who she is and finding a way to live. In the books, Arya loved being Cat of the Canals the most, the girl who lost both her parents, but came to Braavos on a ship called Nymeria, who works, misses her friends, and is independent. 

Arya returning to Westeros should be completely different in the books. Coming face to face with Jeyne Poole is highly likely and returning North upon hearing of Jon's death and her name being used by the Boltons to take Winterfell. In the books, her return is heavily linked with the North. Why would D&D completely change that when she finally gets back? So she can lurk about in the Riverlands and KL. That adds nothing to her story. More lurking and achieving nothing with just 13 episodes to go. 

Not very realistic. 

If Ayra returning to Westeros was the shift away from revenge then why did she go after Walder and enjoy killing him in that fashion so much? her story last season to me seems to be a combination of rejecting becoming a passionless killer the FM wanted her to be(although I spose ulterior motivates might be possible for them) and deciding to confront her history rather than become an actor or adventurer as discussed with Lady Crane.

Is coming face to face with Jeyne likely? just because she's been using Ayra's name against her will? not really seeing a great deal of potential for drama there.

I'd disagree that going after Cersei adds "nothing" to her story, I think theres actually more potential to add to her story there than there would be had she been involved with retaking WF. That would surely have been just a case of killing Ramsay or other Bolton characters? for one thing Cersei does have a sympatric side to her that the Boltons lack so Ayra could take some degree of pity on her, for another there's obviously potential for Cersei to try and burn KL and Ayra potentially shifting from trying to kill her for revenge to trying to stop that from happening. That for me would be a very obvious climax for Ayra's story along with potentially accept The Hound as a surrogate father.

That would also go hand in hand with the point about the story being unlikely to have many diversions at this point, Ayra basically slots into the existing Kings Landing story.

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15 hours ago, Larger than Average Finger said:

In the big picture, there are 2 things happening, a fight for the throne and the coming threat from the WW's.

 

Arya would seem to have a big role in one, and little if any role in the other.  To me that would indicate she is likely to head south.  Thats not to say she won't make a stop though.

that's a very good analysis, IMO, we're heading to a north/south division of the characters in the story, any character that his story doesn't relate to the WW will head south to King's landing and any character related to R'hllor and NK will head north to the wall (like Sandor and the BwB and Melisandre I think after joining them) 

So the starks will be divided, the boys to the north and the girls to the south

 

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5 hours ago, Future Null Infinity said:

that's a very good analysis, IMO, we're heading to a north/south division of the characters in the story, any character that his story doesn't relate to the WW will head south to King's landing and any character related to R'hllor and NK will head north to the wall (like Sandor and the BwB and Melisandre I think after joining them) 

So the starks will be divided, the boys to the north and the girls to the south

 

Much will also depend on the timing of the 2 major events. 

Will the ultimate victor for the thrown be worked out first? Or will the true enemy need to be defeated first, and the thrown decided in the aftermath?

 

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On 9/2/2016 at 8:09 AM, A Ghost of Someone said:

I think Arya will maybe go to king's landing to kill Cersei or  try to but maybe she hears about winter fell and goes home.

Yeah, I think more likely the latter. I think they are fitting in some loose ends from cutting the LSH/Vale plot, but drawing the key characters together. But that's her ultimate direction. "I'm Arya Stark of Winterfell, and I'm going home." (put that clip below)

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On 2 September 2016 at 6:28 AM, Larger than Average Finger said:

In the big picture, there are 2 things happening, a fight for the throne and the coming threat from the WW's.

 

Arya would seem to have a big role in one, and little if any role in the other.  To me that would indicate she is likely to head south.  Thats not to say she won't make a stop though.

I'm not convinced on that. Arya will be one of the few characters who play a role in both, alongside Jon, Dany and Tyrion.

Sansa, I think, will only have a big role in one, same with Bran, but Arya is not either of those two. 

Bran's whole story and purpose surrounds the battle with the white walkers. He has no place in the battle for the throne.

Sansa will play an important, yet indirect role in the battle for the throne, but I really can't see her having a place in the war for dawn.

Arya is different. Her personality and character traits are the strongest of any of the Stark children and her abilities could be very useful in both battles. Also, of all the main characters, Arya's endgame is the hardest to predict. 

Pone thing I'm sure of is that Arya's final storyline will NOT be "wronged little girl who becomes badass assassin and takes revenge on all those who wronged her, then dies, the end".      Revenge has never been what GRRM has had in mind for Arya's final purpose and destination in the story in my opinion. I think she is definitely destined for a leadership role, though exactly what that will be I couldn't say at this point.

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A girl seems to be putting all of that together. And there are lots of hints with Jon, too.

Show is all over the map, and makes little sense. What's next could be anything, but ultimately there's a lot of repetition for going home and her connection with Jon (both of those things are big in the books, too).

In the books, when Arya was headed home to Winterfell, she wanted to go to Jon first, "to the Wall, before Winterfell." And Jon referred to her in similar terms, he wanted her to be brought home to him, "Bring her home."

On the show, she's been headed home for a while, just like the books, she keeps trying to get there. And Jon is the family she's closest to. She has mentioned him several times, as well as going North and to Winterfell.

She mentioned Jon several times in season 4. She said, "My brother game me that sword" and "I want to go North, to the Wall." In season 5, she cried when she had to part with Needle. Then in season 6, she's a Stark of Winterfell going home.

Also for our viewing enjoyment, here are some of those hints from the show again:

"My brother gave me that sword!" (and in another scene, "You say your brother gave you that sword") (season 4)

"I want to go north! To the Wall!" (season 4)

Arya cries while she has to part with Needle (season 5)

"A girl is Arya Stark of Winterfell, and I'm going home." (season 6)

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Why do you insist on quoting the books when you're making an argument with relation to the show? Show Jon/Arya are not book Jon/Arya. 

Arya said she's coming home and yet she went straight to the Twins, instead of Castle Black (where she thinks her oh so beloved brother, she briefly and passingly mentioned a handful of times in 6 seasons, is) or Winterfell or even Riverrun/the Eyrie. Her revenge is still her priority.

Current Arya is not the Arya from season 1 or even 4. 

9 hours ago, Le Cygne said:

A girl seems to be putting all of that together. And there are lots of hints with Jon, too.

huh? explain. what hints? what is she putting together?

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Revenge won't remain Arya's priority for much longer and I've never felt, either in books or show, that her story is ultimately about revenge. The endgame for Arya IMO is a leadership role. I don't know what context that will be in, but everything about her journey screams leader in the making. She has been developing so many of the qualities needed in a good leader.

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Nothing in her character or story indicates she's set for a leadership role. She's not a people person, she's not inspiring, she has never been groomed to lead anyone, she's confrontational, she's rage-driven, she's on the wild side, she's no Lyanna Mormont. She's more of a spy, someone who keeps a low profile and works in the shadows,

And who exactly do you think she'd lead anyway? 

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51 minutes ago, Darksky said:

Nothing in her character or story indicates she's set for a leadership role. She's not a people person, she's not inspiring, she has never been groomed to lead anyone, she's confrontational, she's rage-driven, she's on the wild side, she's no Lyanna Mormont. She's more of a spy, someone who keeps a low profile and works in the shadows,

And who exactly do you think she'd lead anyway? 

Arya is wild yes, but she's also very calculated and can control it. Writing her off as 'not a people person' isn't exactly true either. She is described in the books as being able to talk to and make friends with anyone....and there are aspects of that in the show as well. From befriending Mycah to Gendry, Hot Pie, Lommy, even striking a rapport with Lord Tywin and the Hound.

Arya is adaptable and can adjust her approach to her audience in an instant. She's better at that than Jon or any of the Starks. She's also intelligent, cunning and assertive (all important traits of a leader). So I disagree with you.

There are many aspects of Arya's character that make her suited for leadership.As for being more of a spy or someone who works in the shadows...that is not Arya's personality..at all . it is simply what circumstances have driven her to in order to get what she seeks.

If you think Arya's personality is that of someone who prefers to hide from the world and work in covert circumstances, clearly you haven't been paying attention.

The faceless men, Arya's current assassin training, etc, is all leading to a bigger purpose. As for who she would lead, I believe it's too early to tell...but I think her storyline will move forward very quickly in S7 and she will soon be with a group of people amongst whom she will play a leader role.

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