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Marvel Cinematic Universe General Discussion 6: Just Send Me a Raven T-Bone


The Anti-Targ

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It doesn't really make any sense to do a Venom movie without first introducing him in a Spider-Man movie first given that basically all of Venom's iconic powers are ones the symbiote stole from Spider-Man when Spidey was wearing it.

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I agree it doesn't make sense, but here we are. If it were up to me Spidey would get the symbiote towards the end of Infinity War, use and eventually remove it in Spiderman 2 and then you do Venom or Spiderman 3 with Venom. 

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3 hours ago, RumHam said:

I agree it doesn't make sense, but here we are. If it were up to me Spidey would get the symbiote towards the end of Infinity War, use and eventually remove it in Spiderman 2 and then you do Venom or Spiderman 3 with Venom. 

Ooh yeah, that would totally work. You could do Carnage after that or lead from Spiderman with Venom to Sinister Six to Carnage just to break things up a little. Tom Holland is young enough (in and out of character) where his movies can become more "adult" as they go along.

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With the deserved critical (and hopefully financial) success of Wonder Woman, this puts the acid on Marvel/Disney with Captain Marvel to create an equally great movie, and yet ensure there is real differentiation between the characters of Wonder Woman and Carol Danvers.

An article described the characteristics of Wonder Woman with these terms "She's all about love and justice and truth and compassion", "vulnerability and her compassion and emotional intelligence" and of course "strength and power". 

Carol Danvers story includes these elements (comic universe spoilers?):
 

Quote

Carol insisted on working as hard as her two younger brothers, trying to make equal in her father's eyes. A voracious reader, she dreamed of becoming an astronaut and traveling to distant planets; as a teen she even hitchhiked to Cape Canaveral to view a launch there. Her father however, could not accept women as men's equals, and when financial troubles meant he could only send one child to college, he chose middle child Steve despite Carol's superior grades.

"She turned 18 just a few months later, and the following day she turned her back on her father and joined the Air Force, intending to be a pilot and to get a college degree via the military. Her brother Steve's death in military action would eventually draw Carol back to her family, but she still never felt truly accepted by her father.

Carol was shot down and captured by a man named Ghazi Rashid, who tortured her for several days. She managed to escape (despite a broken leg and serious injuries), reach a CIA safehouse in the area.

she was kidnapped by the alien robotic intelligence Cyberex and then hospitalized by a controlled Iron Man who attacked the Cape (NASA).The alien Yon-Rogg then kidnapped her while she was still concussed and eventually battled Mar-Vell. During this battle, Carol was knocked into a damaged Kree Psyche-Magnitron, a powerful device which could turn imagination into reality. Carol's genetic structure was altered effectively making her a half-Kree superhuman. She was unaware of this change for months

Her successful career at NASA was severely damaged because of these recent events. 

Carol wrote an angry tell-all expose on NASA, burning many bridges. The best selling book briefly made Carol a celebrity and she began working as an editor for Woman Magazine, a publication owned by the Daily Bugle. However, she developed a dual personality due to the Psyche-Magnitron's alterations. She would black out and become a Kree warrior, instantaneously donning a costume in which the Psyche-Magnitron had created for her to ease her body's changes.[25]

She continued to experience these blackouts, but they did not stop her from pursuing her career as a writer and editor. She took the name Ms. Marvel after Mar-Vell. Her fragmented mind eventually recovered with the help and treatments of the extradimensional Hecate and the Kree Ronan the Accuser. 

Carol overcame emotional emptiness, alcoholism, substantially reduced power levels and a formal court martial before her teammates to prove herself as an asset among Avengers. 

That is, if the movie tries to stay somewhat true to Carol's canon the movie will be of a very flawed person. Probably someone not unlike Jessica Jones of the Netflix series, but not jaded and cynical. And I think the movie does need to try to incorporate the very human and fairly troubled life of Carol, including after she gets her powers.

Supergirl and Wonder Woman are essentially flawless ideals of womanhood and heroism. The Black Widow is a weapon in human form. Captain Marvel should be an ordinary person with an ordinary life and ordinary problems (that is, ordinary in terms of fits within the range of human experience in the real world, at least up until she encounters the alien and the fantastical) and thus be a person we can look at and say "I know someone like this".

So far most (all?) of our female superheroes have been hyper-real or unrreal. Carol should start out as simply real.

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3 hours ago, The Anti-Targ said:

With the deserved critical (and hopefully financial) success of Wonder Woman, this puts the acid on Marvel/Disney with Captain Marvel to create an equally great movie, and yet ensure there is real differentiation between the characters of Wonder Woman and Carol Danvers.

An article described the characteristics of Wonder Woman with these terms "She's all about love and justice and truth and compassion", "vulnerability and her compassion and emotional intelligence" and of course "strength and power". 

Carol Danvers story includes these elements (comic universe spoilers?):
 

That is, if the movie tries to stay somewhat true to Carol's canon the movie will be of a very flawed person. Probably someone not unlike Jessica Jones of the Netflix series, but not jaded and cynical. And I think the movie does need to try to incorporate the very human and fairly troubled life of Carol, including after she gets her powers.

Supergirl and Wonder Woman are essentially flawless ideals of womanhood and heroism. The Black Widow is a weapon in human form. Captain Marvel should be an ordinary person with an ordinary life and ordinary problems (that is, ordinary in terms of fits within the range of human experience in the real world, at least up until she encounters the alien and the fantastical) and thus be a person we can look at and say "I know someone like this".

So far most (all?) of our female superheroes have been hyper-real or unrreal. Carol should start out as simply real.

I think whatever Marvel has gotten right it's making its characters humans first and heroes second. The alien characters like Thor, Gamora, Nebula, Groot, and Rocket are very human. Even the villains like Loki and HYDRA, etc... are very much human in Marvel. 

I read a great quote on the internet from someone(don't know who so I can't give credit)who summed up my feelings exactly why I prefer Marvel to DC. The quote said that "Marvel characters are humans trying to be heroes and DC characters are heroes trying to be human" and that's why they prefer Marvel which I agree with. I have a lot of faith that Marvel will get this part of Captain Marvel right. 

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Maybe even make a point of having her try to be a wonder woman ideal and then falling short, as a way of grounding her story in reality and making her sympathetic to the audience who have that shared experience.   Somehow walking the line between being important storytelling for girls but not getting heavy/cheesy with that,.... then from out of her personal defeats she still is kickass enough to rise up and beat an evil whose flaw was to oppose Captain Marvel.

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28 minutes ago, The Mother of The Others said:

Maybe even make a point of having her try to be a wonder woman ideal and then falling short, as a way of grounding her story in reality and making her sympathetic to the audience who have that shared experience.   Somehow walking the line between being important storytelling for girls but not getting heavy/cheesy with that,.... then from out of her personal defeats she still is kickass enough to rise up and beat an evil whose flaw was to oppose Captain Marvel.

Thats kind of what they did with Man of Steel though, he was a superhero learning to be a  superhero and kind of screwing it up. Nobody liked that.

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2 hours ago, Channel4s-JonSnow said:

Thats kind of what they did with Man of Steel though, he was a superhero learning to be a  superhero and kind of screwing it up. Nobody liked that.

Because that's not what everyone thinks of with Superman. His character carries with it a lot of cinematic baggage of being a character of pure goodness and never struggling with himself. Which, as I understand it, in the comics is not quite how he is; though I suppose even with injustice he's not struggling with his moral righteousness, he's just taken the natural course that all people who think they know best take. Captain Marvel is a completely blank slate for movie audiences. Given how Jessica Jones has been received on Netflix, seriously flawed and damaged heroes are characters audiences can get behind; if you tell a good story. Indeed all of the Netflix heroes are flawed and damaged.

15 hours ago, The Wolves said:

I think whatever Marvel has gotten right it's making its characters humans first and heroes second. The alien characters like Thor, Gamora, Nebula, Groot, and Rocket are very human. Even the villains like Loki and HYDRA, etc... are very much human in Marvel. 

I read a great quote on the internet from someone(don't know who so I can't give credit)who summed up my feelings exactly why I prefer Marvel to DC. The quote said that "Marvel characters are humans trying to be heroes and DC characters are heroes trying to be human" and that's why they prefer Marvel which I agree with. I have a lot of faith that Marvel will get this part of Captain Marvel right. 

I like that statement. Not universally true, but true enough. 

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58 minutes ago, Bastard of Boston said:

 Might be an awful poster, but my God, this movie looks incredible.

 

It's everything I ever wanted. I hope this movie delivers.l(please please be great!) 

The Dora Milaje is giving me life!! And it's so visually beautiful, Marvel is all about that color life. 

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Poster as always very lacksture but trailer made up for it.

It has the right balance that we all wanted to see. Realistic world, also sort of like Asgard or simply alien like enviroment. His costume definitely went throght some changes and CGI of that car flipping looked poor, hopefully this is just a first version of it. Also like the little nod to LOTR Bilbo and Gollum interrogation scene and love the fact Klaw is part of the movie and the only person who really saw Wakanda for what it truly stands for, unlike Ross and the rest of the world who thinks these guys are just normal country. Trailer music was also pretty good.

It has that Ryan Coogler touch to it and this should be guarantee of a success.

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Really looking forward to this one and the trailer looks amazing.

6 hours ago, Lord Friendzone said:

Also like the little nod to LOTR Bilbo and Gollum interrogation scene and love the fact Klaw is part of the movie and the only person who really saw Wakanda for what it truly stands for, unlike Ross and the rest of the world who thinks these guys are just normal country.

My impression was that Ross knows very well what Wakanda is. He's just giving Klaw the 'official' line.

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I am fairly confident that Black Panther will be a terrific movie... I mean, they made Ant Man into a good movie, so I trust the Marvel machine will keep the ball rolling with BP... especially since the character is both awesome --in a superhero sense-- and compelling in a literary sense...

My worries are for Captain Marvel... I think Marvel Studios made a tactical error allowing DC to beat them to the first female lead in their respective universes.... now they'll be fighting an uphill battle,,,, the bar has been set high... and no matter how good CM is, there will be inevitable comparisons to Wonder Woman... because everyone on the internet is a f**ing critic...lol

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