Marvel Cinematic Universe General Discussion 6: Just Send Me a Raven T-Bone

[The Anti-Targ]

The good thing is there's going to be a lot of time between Wonder Woman and Capt Marvel and the movie won't be fresh in people's minds. It's going to have been out on Blu-Ray / Netflix for over a year by the time Capt Marvel hits theatres. Not sure what the release schedule is like for the DCEU movies, but I'm guessing Wonder Woman probably doesn't appear again between Justice League and Captain Marvel.

The memory of how good Wonder Woman was will still be there of course.

The thing they need to do is aim to make a better movie than Wonder Woman. They shouldn't look at it as a bar they need to hit or clear, but rather a floor below which they can't go. It's not enough for Wonder Woman to be the best female super hero movie and for others to be less good, even though they may be good in their own right. It should be seen as a foundation on which more greatness can be built.

I wonder if there could be scope for a future ensemble movie with all the current female Avengers being the leads. We've got Wasp, Scarlett Witch, Black Widow and Captain Marvel

[Lord Friendzone]

4 hours ago, mormont said:

Really looking forward to this one and the trailer looks amazing.

My impression was that Ross knows very well what Wakanda is. He's just giving Klaw the 'official' line.

Could be, maybe it was done purpose to mislead us that Ross has no idea or he had heard rumours but only rumous without witness. You never know with CIA. 

[The Wolves]

4 hours ago, Martini Sigil said:

 

My worries are for Captain Marvel... I think Marvel Studios made a tactical error allowing DC to beat them to the first female lead in their respective universes.... now they'll be fighting an uphill battle,,,, the bar has been set high... and no matter how good CM is, there will be inevitable comparisons to Wonder Woman... because everyone on the internet is a f**ing critic...lol

Of course Captain Marvel is going to be compared to Wonder Woman, she is the most popular female comic book character. I think Captain Marvel being not as well known with the general public is a plus in Marvel's favor. Marvel can do something new and different for CM(and Marvel directors are really good at distinguishing their movies)Anyways Im hoping Marvel does right by their first female superhero movie. It's also a plus that Brie is a fantastic actress. 

Does anyone know when does Captain Marvel start filming? 

[Bastard of Boston]

5 hours ago, Martini Sigil said:

My worries are for Captain Marvel... I think Marvel Studios made a tactical error allowing DC to beat them to the first female lead in their respective universes.... now they'll be fighting an uphill battle,,,, the bar has been set high... and no matter how good CM is, there will be inevitable comparisons to Wonder Woman... because everyone on the internet is a f**ing critic...lol

I think you're looking at this the wrong way. I understand the DC/Marvel rivalry from the fan perspective. It's what fans do -- constantly pit one thing against another. However, in no way does a DC or Marvel film flopping help the other. The bar should always be set high.

What WW has shown is that there is an audience for a female-led superhero movie. That is valuable intel and great momentum for the next thing. People want Wonder Woman 2. People want Captain Marvel. People want more. In my mind, Marvel appreciates the fact that they can tap into the audience that went to see WW. Beyond that, there's going to be other movies looking to have their own female superhero lead.

In general, comic book films coming out and flopping is not good for anyone. It taints the genre against the general audience. Wonder Woman doing well will just energize groups of people into seeing the next one. It's all about momentum. One movie feeds the next. If DC never got it together and just kept releasing lackluster movies, that's when the narrative shifts and studios become less likely to go all in on them.

[The Anti-Targ]

6 hours ago, The Wolves said:

Of course Captain Marvel is going to be compared to Wonder Woman, she is the most popular female comic book character. I think Captain Marvel being not as well known with the general public is a plus in Marvel's favor. Marvel can do something new and different for CM(and Marvel directors are really good at distinguishing their movies)Anyways Im hoping Marvel does right by their first female superhero movie. It's also a plus that Brie is a fantastic actress. 

Does anyone know when does Captain Marvel start filming? 

I think it starts filming this year some time.

I agree that CM being unknown outside the comic book fanbase is a positive, both because the writers have a degree of freedom in how they frame her character and story, though they do need her to be recognisable to the comic book fans IMO, and because the points of difference between CM and WW will benefit CM a lot BECAUSE WW has already come and gone and people will really appreciate that female superhero movies aren't simply rinse and repeat clones of one another. Assuming Captain Marvel is both a good movie from an objective standpoint, and different in many fundamental ways to WW, then the combination of these two things can make CM perform as well or better than WW financially.

CM could be Deadpool-ish in some respects. Have quite a different tone and feel to it than the MCU movies gone before it, but still obviously fit into and be part of the MCU. 

In other news, I saw a Jimmy Kimmel clip interviewing Spider Man Homecoming cast, and he says he's seen a rough cut of the movie and thought it was the best Spider Man movie ever. He also claims Spider Man is his favourite super hero. Do you think he's legit when he says Homecoming is his favourite Spider Man movie ever, or is that just marketing hype spin?

[Kalbear]

10 hours ago, Lord Friendzone said:

Could be, maybe it was done purpose to mislead us that Ross has no idea or he had heard rumours but only rumous without witness. You never know with CIA. 

From the comics, at least, this was a storyline about a US operative tasked to keep tabs on T'Challah, and through him we find out more about Wakanda - and yeah, he starts out as a total n00b. 

My understanding is that Cap and Bucky being allowed to go to Wakanda at all was kind of a super huge deal.

[The Wolves]

1 hour ago, The Anti-Targ said:

I think it starts filming this year some time.

I agree that CM being unknown outside the comic book fanbase is a positive, both because the writers have a degree of freedom in how they frame her character and story, though they do need her to be recognisable to the comic book fans IMO, and because the points of difference between CM and WW will benefit CM a lot BECAUSE WW has already come and gone and people will really appreciate that female superhero movies aren't simply rinse and repeat clones of one another. Assuming Captain Marvel is both a good movie from an objective standpoint, and different in many fundamental ways to WW, then the combination of these two things can make CM perform as well or better than WW financially.

CM could be Deadpool-ish in some respects. Have quite a different tone and feel to it than the MCU movies gone before it, but still obviously fit into and be part of the MCU. 

In other news, I saw a Jimmy Kimmel clip interviewing Spider Man Homecoming cast, and he says he's seen a rough cut of the movie and thought it was the best Spider Man movie ever. He also claims Spider Man is his favourite super hero. Do you think he's legit when he says Homecoming is his favourite Spider Man movie ever, or is that just marketing hype spin?

He's probably legit in saying that it's the best Spider Man movie ever and I hope he's right. Everything I have seen so far concerning Homecoming is great so I have a lot of faith in this movie and I hope it doesn't let us down. 

[The Anti-Targ]

50 minutes ago, Kalbear said:

From the comics, at least, this was a storyline about a US operative tasked to keep tabs on T'Challah, and through him we find out more about Wakanda - and yeah, he starts out as a total n00b. 

My understanding is that Cap and Bucky being allowed to go to Wakanda at all was kind of a super huge deal.

Indeed, given Civil War was pretty much Wakanda's coming out party to the world, it does seem like pretty much every country's intelligence agencies are n00bs when it comes to them. The fact that there was considerable surprise that (1) The Black Panther is a thing and (2) the crown prince (I guess technically the king at the time of the reveal) is BP, is certainly strongly indicative that no one has a clue about Wakanda.

[RumHam]

5 hours ago, The Anti-Targ said:

Indeed, given Civil War was pretty much Wakanda's coming out party to the world, it does seem like pretty much every country's intelligence agencies are n00bs when it comes to them. The fact that there was considerable surprise that (1) The Black Panther is a thing and (2) the crown prince (I guess technically the king at the time of the reveal) is BP, is certainly strongly indicative that no one has a clue about Wakanda.

It does seem odd to me that a third world country like Ross describes in that trailer would be sending out humanitarian aid workers as seen in Civil War.

[Kalbear]

13 hours ago, RumHam said:

It does seem odd to me that a third world country like Ross describes in that trailer would be sending out humanitarian aid workers as seen in Civil War.

Kenya does it; I don't see why it'd be weird for Wakanda. 

[RumHam]

3 minutes ago, Kalbear said:

Kenya does it; I don't see why it'd be weird for Wakanda. 

I don't really know much about Kenya but a quick visit to wikipedia suggests they have one of the stronger economies in Africa. I just figured a country best known for "textiles and shepherds" wouldn't have the resources to send aid workers abroad. 

[Kalbear]

2 minutes ago, RumHam said:

I don't really know much about Kenya but a quick visit to wikipedia suggests they have one of the stronger economies in Africa. I just figured a country best known for "textiles and shepherds" wouldn't have the resources to send aid workers abroad. 

Kenya does have one of the strongest economies in Africa; so does Wakanda in the Marvelverse. But if you ask a random dude about what Kenya does, it's probably something like marathon runners and ranchers. Kenya and Wakanda are (in universe) basically next to each other as well. 

Wakanda is thought of as being something of a secretive, small backwater, but it's not poor. In addition, one of the things it did early was  to send out Wakandans to study abroad, so Wakandans tend to be well-known in liberal universities and are found worldwide. It only makes sense that they'd help, especially in Africa.

[Manhole Eunuchsbane]

3 minutes ago, Kalbear said:

Kenya does have one of the strongest economies in Africa; so does Wakanda in the Marvelverse. But if you ask a random dude about what Kenya does, it's probably something like marathon runners and ranchers. Kenya and Wakanda are (in universe) basically next to each other as well. 

Wakanda is thought of as being something of a secretive, small backwater, but it's not poor. In addition, one of the things it did early was  to send out Wakandans to study abroad, so Wakandans tend to be well-known in liberal universities and are found worldwide. It only makes sense that they'd help, especially in Africa.

Only considered a backwater due to the isolationist policy put in place by T'Chaka in order to protect their Vibranium source from those who would seek to exploit it. Otherwise, it is considered to be among the most technologically advanced nations on Marvel Earth.

[RumHam]

3 minutes ago, Kalbear said:

Kenya does have one of the strongest economies in Africa; so does Wakanda in the Marvelverse.

Openly though? I get that they're secretly super advanced. But I had the impression from that trailer that they pretended to be a "third world country" (though I think that term is outdated I still get a connotation of poverty when someone uses it.) 

[Kalbear]

Just now, Manhole Eunuchsbane said:

Only considered a backwater due to the isolationist policy put in place by T'Chaka in order to protect their Vibranium source from those who would seek to exploit it. Otherwise, it is considered to be among the most technologically advanced nations on Marvel Earth.

Right - everyone THINKS it's a backwater, a quiet unassuming nation that rarely makes headlines. T'Chaka  got a lot of flak for joining the UN in the comics, apparently, because prior to that they were entirely hidden from everyone and super xenophobic. 

It isn't just considered the most technologically advanced, it absolutely is. They're about 50-100 years ahead of  the tech of the world, at least in the comics. They have cures for cancer, quantum-based computing, zero fossil fuels, and all sorts of other magical techy stuff. 

Just now, RumHam said:

Openly though? I get that they're secretly super advanced. But I had the impression from that trailer that they pretended to be a "third world country" (though I think that term is outdated I still get a connotation of poverty when someone uses it.) 

Well, I'll put it this way: no one has ever heard of a famine in Wakanda. No one has ever heard of a civil war. No one has ever heard of any open conflict, and whenever anyone has attacked Wakanda or even tried to enter it they were basically wiped out. 

Since T'Chaka entered the UN, they've been a bit more on the world stage, and been more willing to help their neighbors and whatnot. This has been met with a lot of resistance internally - but that was T'Chaka's plan. I think for the most part people don't think about it much at all. 

[Rhom]

All of this is true, but isn't it Tony that immediately knows what it means when they are told in AoU that a shipment was stolen from Wakanda?  And it seems like multiple people knew after the theft that Wakanda was the only source of Vibranium.

[RumHam]

1 hour ago, Kalbear said:

Well, I'll put it this way: no one has ever heard of a famine in Wakanda. No one has ever heard of a civil war. No one has ever heard of any open conflict, and whenever anyone has attacked Wakanda or even tried to enter it they were basically wiped out. 

Ah ok, none of this has yet been established in the MCU. From Ross' description I figured they were believed to be the type of place plauged by famine and civil unrest. The fact that anyone attacking them was wiped out should have been a red flag that there was more to the country than it seemed. 

 

1 hour ago, Kalbear said:

I think for the most part people don't think about it much at all. 

Right, but Ross should think about it was my point. Especially after the events of Civil War. I mean he saw their king kicking ass in a fancy bulletproof suit. So unless that Klau scene is set pre-civil war I still think it's a little odd that that's his impression of Wakanda. Unless as someone suggested before he's giving the official cover story. 

[Kalbear]

Just now, RumHam said:

Right, but Ross should think about it was my point. Especially after the events of Civil War. I mean he saw their king kicking ass in a fancy bulletproof suit. So unless that Klau scene is set pre-civil war I still think it's a little odd that that's his impression of Wakanda. Unless as someone suggested about he's giving the official cover story. 

Sure - T'Challah kicks ass - but being a superhero is now kind of all over the place. There are a lot of enhanced people out there. There's nothing from his suit to make anyone think that Wakanda itself is this super-advanced tech place. 

As I said, Ross in the comics is also doing the 'whoa, Wakanda' thing, so it makes sense they've adopted it. From the looks of the trailer it's pretty promising that they're taking some of the best parts of the Black Panther runs and adapting them. 

[Manhole Eunuchsbane]

15 minutes ago, Rhom said:

All of this is true, but isn't it Tony that immediately knows what it means when they are told in AoU that a shipment was stolen from Wakanda?  And it seems like multiple people knew after the theft that Wakanda was the only source of Vibranium.

I suspect that Tony probably knew because Stark Corp was probably among the select few customers that T'Chaka initially started selling small amounts of Vibranium to.

[Kalbear]

3 minutes ago, Manhole Eunuchsbane said:

I suspect that Tony probably knew because Stark Corp was probably among the select few customers that T'Chaka initially started selling small amounts of Vibranium to.

Right. There is, as far as I know, only one major supplier of Vibranium - Wakanda. And they sell it at something like $10k a gram. It's known that they're the ones that have vibranium - this is somewhat common knowledge.

Their society, culture, and technology is totally not. It's not known that they have utilized Vibranium for everything, for instance. 

Which is why it's such a big deal that Cap and Bucky are in Wakanda at all. They might be the only outsiders that were allowed there in a thousand years. (I doubt the movies will get into that much, but it should be seen as a big deal).