The Anti-Targ

Marvel Cinematic Universe General Discussion 6: Just Send Me a Raven T-Bone

422 posts in this topic

5 hours ago, mormont said:

That was Linda Hamilton. The WW mention may have got you confused. ;)

Ha Ha. I'll take it.

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17 hours ago, The Anti-Targ said:

If they do ever meet in the MCU, it would be cool for one of them to have a line that includes a phrase like "desolation of smog".

I thought one interesting critique of Wonder Woman by CBG19, which is relevant to Capt Marvel, and something I worry about with the casting of Brie Larsen is that Gal Gadot's physique is not athletic. Her arms and legs totally lack muscle definition, in favour of a physique that is more classically attractive. Having undergone a lot of intense training over many years you'd expect WW to at least have good muscle tone. Perhaps as a goddess she does not develop ,muscles from exercise, since a god's physical strength does not come from ordinary muscle power but from magical / metaphysical / extra-dimensional power.

Captain Marvel doesn't get "magical properties" until she has well and truly gone through military and combat training. So Brie needs to get some decent muscle tone and at least a bit of muscle bulk. She doesn't have to go all out like Linda Carter in T2. But I think the sort of build Emily Blunt managed for Edge of Tomorrow is pretty much what Larsen needs to achieve.

The bolded actually has always bothered me about Superman, he's so incredibly strong even as a child how could he work out enough to build such a muscular physique, why isn't he just scrawny, or even overweight as he'd have to push mountains around to even work up a sweat.

This may be why I loved the workout scenes when Mr. Incredible was getting back in shape.

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12 minutes ago, Leofric said:

The bolded actually has always bothered me about Superman, he's so incredibly strong even as a child how could he work out enough to build such a muscular physique, why isn't he just scrawny, or even overweight as he'd have to push mountains around to even work up a sweat.

This may be why I loved the workout scenes when Mr. Incredible was getting back in shape.

Its interesting actually. Although isn't Superman's strength something to do with the Sun and the difference between Earth and his home planet? You can imagine there is some point where gravity has an effect on his muscles enough to make them grow as he exerts pressure. Plus he's not even human so god knows how his body works.

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I think there's a thin line between actors hitting the gym for more superhero-level physiques and returning to the days when professional wrestlers were cast in these movies. I'll take someone who can breathe life into a character over someone with a comics-accurate physique. I think the Chris Hemsworths of the world have spoiled us by looking and acting the part. Obviously, it's hard to train as much as they do for these roles. It makes Chris Evans miserable enough to go on record saying it makes him miserable. I read a really good article I need to find again about Hollywood and the new training obsession.

All these characters achieve their abilities through supernatural means, so their physique isn't exactly tied to their strength. While it would be great if Gal Gadot and Brie Larson developed the athletic builds to really sell these roles, I'm hesitant to put that kind of pressure on someone. And this is coming from a reformed nerd who used to always nitpick appearances of actors playing heroes. They're creating literal CGI actors these days (Rogue One), surely they can CGI a gratuitous bicep in every once in awhile. It's sick to think about how much Chris Evans trained for that one money shot in Civil War -- the helicopter scene. I'd be happy with Brie whether she puts on 10 pounds of muscle or not.

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Comics have been drawing people in superhuman ways for decades, men have beem getting bigger and more ripper the whole time, our expectations have changed as to what a superhuman looks like, I'd go as far as to say with our obsession with looks and gyms , our view of what a man looks like has changed hugely too.

 

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I dislike the obsession of actors having to meet a certain body type/musculature to land a role. Body image is something really important to me so the idea of actors and actresses having to undergo such extreme changes to their body just to land or keep a role concerns me, both because of the impact that has on them and the message it sends out to wider audiences ("This is 'hot' now and you should all aspire to this"). I don't expect it to change anytime soon but whatever, I still think it's not a healthy outlook.

I'm also going to shock myself by agreeing with C4JS and say I think our view of what men should look like has changed too with the whole gym obsession (though I would add I think that applies to women too, although to a slightly lesser extent - the trendy thing now is 'fitspo' not 'thinspo' for whatever gender). I think the obsession is unhealthy and responsible for a lot of body image issues/body dysmorphia. But I'll retire to my cave now because I doubt there's enough concern for that to change.

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Posted (edited)

On 2017-6-15 at 10:54 AM, Bastard of Boston said:

I think there's a thin line between actors hitting the gym for more superhero-level physiques and returning to the days when professional wrestlers were cast in these movies. I'll take someone who can breathe life into a character over someone with a comics-accurate physique. I think the Chris Hemsworths of the world have spoiled us by looking and acting the part. Obviously, it's hard to train as much as they do for these roles. It makes Chris Evans miserable enough to go on record saying it makes him miserable. I read a really good article I need to find again about Hollywood and the new training obsession.

All these characters achieve their abilities through supernatural means, so their physique isn't exactly tied to their strength. While it would be great if Gal Gadot and Brie Larson developed the athletic builds to really sell these roles, I'm hesitant to put that kind of pressure on someone. And this is coming from a reformed nerd who used to always nitpick appearances of actors playing heroes. They're creating literal CGI actors these days (Rogue One), surely they can CGI a gratuitous bicep in every once in awhile. It's sick to think about how much Chris Evans trained for that one money shot in Civil War -- the helicopter scene. I'd be happy with Brie whether she puts on 10 pounds of muscle or not.

There is that option of CGI enhancements a la 300, where I understand there was some digital enhancement of abs and pecs.

I think in the case of Capt. Marvel athleticism is character consistent. Since she is pretty well into adulthood before she becomes enhanced. She is meant to be skilled at close combat, and of course is military and not merely a desk jockey functionary. So I would like to see her as buff as Emily Blunt in Edge of Tomorrow. Which is to say good muscle definition but not bulked out like a female pro wrestler. I don't think that's too much to ask, and would certainly not demand a gym and diet schedule like that demanded of Chris Evans.

Chris Hemsworth is special in so many ways, and Mavel is very lucky to have him.

A character like Jessica Jones, by contrast, suits being like a stick thin model, since she was not at all an atheletic type before she got suped up.

When it comes to Capt. Marvel I'm probably overly pedantic. I've said in these threads several times that I really wanted her to be played by a tall actor. Because I feel like she is meant to be fairly impressive physically, and be able to look a lot of the male Avengers square in the eye, and even look someone like Thor square in the chin. So my main gripe about Larsen was she's too short. And my ideal actor for her is Charlize Theron. She pretty much has all the qualities one would look for in casting Capt. Marvel. I've come to terms with Brie's height, but I would like her to put some effort into making her physique character consistent.

If fricken Maisie Williams can teach herself to convincingly use a sword left handed, Brie Larsen can damned well do some push ups and sit ups to prep for the role.

Edited by The Anti-Targ

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9 hours ago, The Anti-Targ said:

I've said in these threads several times that I really wanted her to be played by a tall actor.

Have you never seen a Tom Cruise movie? 

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To me, it's more important that she feel like an Air Force officer than ripped and fit. She should have a command presence. I can see her walking into a room full of Avengers and taking her place with the "command" crew (Tony, Steve, Fury), not sit back and wait for orders.

I guess I'm looking for no-nonsense military attitude over muscles.

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On 15/06/2017 at 9:21 AM, Channel4s-JonSnow said:

Comics have been drawing people in superhuman ways for decades, men have beem getting bigger and more ripper the whole time, our expectations have changed as to what a superhuman looks like, I'd go as far as to say with our obsession with looks and gyms , our view of what a man looks like has changed hugely too.

 

It's odd how they have turned more into dehydrated super muscles over the decades. Spidey was originally still a weedy teenager whose strength came from his powers (although in his case it makes sense he became more ripped over time). Superman had the appearance of circus strongmen where they weren't carrying 12 packs and every muscle was super defined (they were still strong).

I think the problem with some of the physiques we see in films these days is that they aren't actually that functional. Chris Evans admitted he had to give up a lot of his sporting activities because he was simply too big which flies in the face of what Captain America should be able to do. How fast can Chris Hemsworth run? (although it's slightly moot when Thor can fly). Can Hugh Jackman really run and leap in his "my veins are like regular humans' fingers"?

Tom Holland seems to be striking a decent compromise in that he appears to be able to do quite a bit of gymastic work so his strength is functional.

4 hours ago, Relic said:

Have you never seen a Tom Cruise movie? 

Exactly, they can make Brie Larson appear to be the tallest member of the Avengers if they want to.

1 hour ago, Myrddin said:

To me, it's more important that she feel like an Air Force officer than ripped and fit. She should have a command presence. I can see her walking into a room full of Avengers and taking her place with the "command" crew (Tony, Steve, Fury), not sit back and wait for orders.

I guess I'm looking for no-nonsense military attitude over muscles.

This makes sense to me to. Someone whose tall but can't give off that sense of authority is missing the point more than a shorter actor who can. Are air force and army "captains" equivalent? Just curious as to whether there'd be a sense of chain of command between her and Cap.

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Yeah, exactly on the 'type of person' for Captain Marvel. While she's good at hand-to-hand and whatnot, she shouldn't be incredibly built; she's an espionage and security expert. How Charize Theron looks in Atomic Blonde is about perfect as far as I can tell. 

Though again, not that I care that much. The important thing is to nail the character and make her compelling, which honestly shouldn't be that hard for her. 

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On 12. 6. 2017 at 11:14 PM, Kalbear said:

Sure - T'Challah kicks ass - but being a superhero is now kind of all over the place. There are a lot of enhanced people out there. There's nothing from his suit to make anyone think that Wakanda itself is this super-advanced tech place. 

As I said, Ross in the comics is also doing the 'whoa, Wakanda' thing, so it makes sense they've adopted it. From the looks of the trailer it's pretty promising that they're taking some of the best parts of the Black Panther runs and adapting them. 

Ta-Nehisi Coates is working on it, a very good writer of the recent Black Panther comics and they're also taking an inspiration from Priest's run.

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Posted (edited)

Misgivings come from how I can't picture how they're going to establish bigtime repore with Ms.Marvel.  Like, are you super enthused about Legion or any other character saddled with demons?   it seems they don't have anything to lean on for mining the public's good will like Wonder Woman did.   The missing piece is how the tone and tenor are to be set and how they're couching the whole "this is why you care."    Hey..... is it a full on disaster themed movie by that point in the story???  That could do it.  

Anyway I plan on protesting the movie like a slogan shouting democrat, something about how kate upton would have brought broader shoulders to the role and more powerful thighs.   But hey we're not concerned about Panther anymore so as of this instant i'm trusting Marvel to handle their Ms. exquisitely.   Kate in hero outfits forever.

Edited by The Mother of The Others

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9 minutes ago, Bastard of Boston said:

Well, this is pretty big news, y'all...

Amy Pascal, with Feige looking on, says Venom and Black Cat/Silver Sable ARE based within the Homecoming Universe...

Which means these movies are based in the MCU.

I  love Feige's reaction to this as if it's the first time he's hearing it too with a hint of "me and Amy need to have a chat after this interview"

Wasn't Pascal the person who suggested Spider-man might not be shared with Marvel after the initial deal? Yup.

She seems a bit of a loose cannon.

Anyway she can say that it's set in the MCU but Marvel doesn't have to let the spin-off spidey films feature any of their characters if they don't wish. I suspect the only hard connection will be via the appearance of Tom Holland as Spidey. I'm still intrigued as to how they do a Venom film without featuring him prominently. It's sort of hard to justify Venom's powerset without him being attached to spidey.

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On 2017-6-16 at 9:06 PM, Relic said:

Have you never seen a Tom Cruise movie? 

Yeah, and knowing that he's shorter than almost all of his female co-stars has me looking for the techniques they use to make him appear taller, which slightly breaks focus on the movie itself. Fortunately for the vast majority of the movie audience they won't have a clue about what Carol Danvers height is in the comics, so even if they don't use techniques to make her appear tall most of the audience won't notice or care.

14 hours ago, The Mother of The Others said:

Misgivings come from how I can't picture how they're going to establish bigtime repore with Ms.Marvel.  Like, are you super enthused about Legion or any other character saddled with demons?   it seems they don't have anything to lean on for mining the public's good will like Wonder Woman did.   The missing piece is how the tone and tenor are to be set and how they're couching the whole "this is why you care."    Hey..... is it a full on disaster themed movie by that point in the story???  That could do it.  

Anyway I plan on protesting the movie like a slogan shouting democrat, something about how kate upton would have brought broader shoulders to the role and more powerful thighs.   But hey we're not concerned about Panther anymore so as of this instant i'm trusting Marvel to handle their Ms. exquisitely.   Kate in hero outfits forever.

Jessica Jones seems to have played pretty well with audiences.

If they could get someone like Brie Larsen to dub the dialogue and have Upton being on screen, and also CGI in the appropriate facial expressions, then I would certainly support her playing the role. Or CGI Brie Larsen's head onto Upton's body. Basically do the reverse of what they did with Captain America before he got the super soldier serum treatment.

1 hour ago, red snow said:

I  love Feige's reaction to this as if it's the first time he's hearing it too with a hint of "me and Amy need to have a chat after this interview"

Wasn't Pascal the person who suggested Spider-man might not be shared with Marvel after the initial deal? Yup.

She seems a bit of a loose cannon.

Anyway she can say that it's set in the MCU but Marvel doesn't have to let the spin-off spidey films feature any of their characters if they don't wish. I suspect the only hard connection will be via the appearance of Tom Holland as Spidey. I'm still intrigued as to how they do a Venom film without featuring him prominently. It's sort of hard to justify Venom's powerset without him being attached to spidey.

Well, there goes the theory that they would set Venom in the Andrew Garfield continuity. Though with Stan Lee being an agent of the Watchers, and appearing in the tAS movies it means tAS is set in the MCU, just in an alternate reality. So arguably they could still go the Andrew Garfield route and just say Pascal slightly misconstrued the situation.

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Posted (edited)

23 hours ago, Bastard of Boston said:

Well, this is pretty big news, y'all...

Amy Pascal, with Feige looking on, says Venom and Black Cat/Silver Sable ARE based within the Homecoming Universe...

Which means these movies are based in the MCU.

Yeah I'm not really buying that until Marvel confirms it. Maybe they'll be in the MCU in the sense that the TV shows are. 

 

21 hours ago, The Anti-Targ said:

Though with Stan Lee being an agent of the Watchers, and appearing in the tAS movies it means tAS is set in the MCU,

Huh? By that logic the Star Wars Prequels are part of the MCU.

Edited by RumHam

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6 hours ago, RumHam said:

Huh? By that logic the Star Wars Prequels are part of the MCU.

Technically, it won't be a Stan Lee cameo because it will be an alien styled on Stan Lee and voiced by him.

Is Star Wars set within the Marvel comic book universe? i.e. do the Watchers actually have a connection in the source material to Star Wars?

After GotG2 and Stan Lee being revealed as an agent of the Watchers, this essentially ties all Marvel movies in which he's appeared together as all existing within the Marvel multiverse. It's just that the non-Marvel/Disney movies happen in a different continuity. All Spider Man movies are all part of the greater MCU canon. Tom Holland's Spider Man merely exists in the same continuity as the current Avengers continuity, whereas the previous Spideys exist in a different continuity. 

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On 6/18/2017 at 2:42 PM, The Anti-Targ said:

Well, there goes the theory that they would set Venom in the Andrew Garfield continuity. Though with Stan Lee being an agent of the Watchers, and appearing in the tAS movies it means tAS is set in the MCU, just in an alternate reality. So arguably they could still go the Andrew Garfield route and just say Pascal slightly misconstrued the situation.

I'd say the Stan Lee thing actually opens up the possibility that this might not be the MCU proper, as the Watchers are part of every Marvel splinter universe. The whole What If? set of comics were hosted by the Watcher and offered glimpses into alternate Marvel universes.

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